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Exception
02-04-2009, 06:35 PM
Well I seem to be the first poster after all crazy stuff hit the fan on the servers...

So what do you think?

Amazing architecture, complete transparency for 3rd party developers, infinite programmability, fully procedural modeling environment, intergated AND decoupled scene operation... a new price structure that doesn't hurt either the enthusiast or the occasional user, but makes for a dependable financial flow for Newtek...

My goodness. I'm stoked!

Save for the hokey presentation. Really. Charming, but hokey for sure! :) Actually I kinda like it. Like a cartoon climax!

safetyman
02-04-2009, 06:38 PM
I want to see more!!!! I like the fact that you can open a browser in any window and use it to follow tutorials and such. Very cool. Can't wait to see more of what the modeler can do.

Dodgy
02-04-2009, 06:48 PM
Yeah, what we did see looked really good, but there wasn't enough stuff which hasn't been seen in other apps already to go wow at. Some stuff was glossed over too quickly to sink in. A wasted opportunity.

Exception
02-04-2009, 06:50 PM
I want to see more!!!! I like the fact that you can open a browser in any window and use it to follow tutorials and such. Very cool. Can't wait to see more of what the modeler can do.

Im planning on a series of low-priced flash movie tutorials!
You can play them inside lightwave!

So awesome...

jameswillmott
02-04-2009, 06:55 PM
Im planning on a series of low-priced flash movie tutorials!
You can play them inside lightwave!

So awesome...

A great idea!

Don't forget to check out www.newtek.com/core for more info, the techfaq is pretty cool to read. Regardless of how the presentation was received, exciting times are ahead...

zapper1998
02-04-2009, 07:01 PM
I tried to see at 1pm but did not see it till 5:44pm and it was on some diff web site

...veoh.com/search/videos/q/Lw+core#watch%3Dv17421006ShAqREfA

hardly could make it out....

I was told that if you bought FiberFactoryIV, Last year, you would be giving the upgrade
or credited for buying FFIV...

cool

CGI Addict
02-04-2009, 07:01 PM
Yes, hopefully there will be more CORE videos in the near future. As for the 14 day viral buildup for 8-10 minutes of actual screen time, it was pretty lame. Pay the pros next time.

I am excited for the path NewTek is a taking though. Kinda brings it inline with Luxology's "Nexus" engine.

All-in-all: Style points, 6 out of 10. Potential, 9 out of 10.

zatara
02-04-2009, 07:05 PM
I also have bought Fiber factory IV, and I was wondering how I can I prove that I have bought. I have bought two years ago.

umbcel
02-04-2009, 07:06 PM
Thanks so much to NewTek team!!!!!
The future is at our doors.

ramccombe
02-04-2009, 07:13 PM
What a disaster! 1:00 no show and for me still no show. I went to http://www.ustream.tv/channel/newtek-coreii and I cannot find a video to play. A little help please.

Thanx, Richard

arsad
02-04-2009, 07:17 PM
You can rewatch it here:

http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/Lw+core#watch%3Dv17421006ShAqREfA

crashnburn
02-04-2009, 07:24 PM
I haven't seen the feed yet due to being at work and no access to the stream but I have seen comments on the forum that worry me.

Is it right then that they are asking for an annual membership? If so doesn't that mean an annual subscription, like the rest of the major 3d packages. I'm sorry but if thats the case then Newtek aren't keeping up with the financial situation in the world and vues I have seen expressed on this site about annual subscriptions to software companies.

I'm sorry, but for me this isn't turning out to be good at the moment. Yes the CORE looks like it may, potentially be very good. But I should think so, it looks like we are going to be paying far more for the privelage. I turned to lightwave when version 4 was around because it just had an occasional upgrade fee that was very reasonable.

This annoucement makes me very wary as to what we are heading into. I hope it turns out good, but I have my reservations at the moment.

Lightwolf
02-04-2009, 07:45 PM
Is it right then that they are asking for an annual membership?
You don't have to join. However, updates will be cost more than a membership. Which is allright if you want to skip a year or so.

Cheers,
Mike

RebelHill
02-04-2009, 07:59 PM
i mean, like wow and all...

but if this puppies been in the pipe 2 yrs, and it basically a hole new 3d app... what gives with all the updates in this 9.6 cycle... i like my new 9.6 too... but now i feel like its kinda consigned to the bin in many ways... and why've they bothered, etc??

just seems ... odd...

KevinL
02-04-2009, 08:32 PM
Anyplace you can see a quality playback? hint, hint NewTek.

Hopper
02-04-2009, 08:37 PM
At the moment, I don't think there is a HQ or even HD version of the presentation. My guess is most of NT probably took some time after the reveal and celebrated a bit. I would imagine an HD version to be posted sometime soon.

And as far as subscriptions... if it's reasonalble, I'm game. It's just like any business. You have to buy new tools and pay to keep up with technology. And if the quality of the application is high and the subscriptions are low, they will start to get more and more converts from the big gorilla.

mektawik
02-04-2009, 08:59 PM
Will there be a 64-bit Mac version?

Lance Oscar
02-04-2009, 09:18 PM
14 Day build up for this lame intro about core. Im not sure if Im more disapointed or confused at this point.

All this computer geek mumbo jumbo about different computer languages and web browsers build in to lightwave. I dont think means much to a artist working with lightwave. Some of us will never understand codes or scripts.

I have always really liked Newtek and LIghtwave. I purchased Lightwave 2 years ago with no 3d experience. I never looked back and thought I purchased the wrong 3d software. Newtek tighten up!

Lance

KevinL
02-04-2009, 09:19 PM
Yes, but I don't really know what that subscription is going to get me. I just went through 2 years of working for NewTek, (as a beta tester) and paid for that privilege. Understandably, I don't want that same experience for the subscription model. It would need to be a constant move forward, with no major dumps....

Kevin L.

P.S. A magazine subscription for 39.00 and I know what I'm getting, sure
A software development subscription, and I don't really know what tangible gains I'll realize that's a little scary

monovich
02-04-2009, 11:07 PM
Will there be a 64-bit Mac version?

yes.

http://www.newtek.com/core/faq.php

cocoa.

monovich
02-04-2009, 11:10 PM
Yes, but I don't really know what that subscription is going to get me. I just went through 2 years of working for NewTek, (as a beta tester) and paid for that privilege. Understandably, I don't want that same experience for the subscription model. It would need to be a constant move forward, with no major dumps....


The "subscription" gives you a $200 discount on the final released version and access to the beta releases.... and training... and a shirt... etc etc.

No more classic open beta it seems, you gotta pay to play.

I'm not bothered. it seems worth it to me.

"subscription" is a misnomer in a lot of ways. its more like an early adopter discount + benefits.

crashnburn
02-04-2009, 11:37 PM
A subscription is a subscription. It's not a problem if you get what you pay for. I have no doubt with Newtek they will probably give us our moneys worth, they have been very good in the past. But to me I am wary as I have no idea WHAT I am buying into. It's not that I am suspect of Newtek, I am suspect of whether the program will suit me. Normally in the past they have run the betas for free, then sold upgrades or given free point upgrades.

This is buying into an unknown quantity. I think what would really help the sell would be a limited trial demo of the beta. That would give people the chance to try before they buy. I would be happy to pay an annual subscription if I found that the new software was a program I can work with the same as the current versions. The changes seem to be significant and many people chose a program based on the workflow and from trying a demo to find out.

Derrick_SA
02-05-2009, 12:16 AM
Could someone please post the reveal video to watch, My internet konked out last night, and I could watch it.

the VEAH.com video I can't watch because "Veoh is no longer available in SOUTH AFRICA. If you are not in SOUTH AFRICA or think you have received this message in error, please go to veoh.com and report the issue."

I WOULD REALLY REALLY like to see it please, the info on the core page sounds awesome.

thanks,
Derrick

crashnburn
02-05-2009, 12:21 AM
http://www.ustream.tv/Newtek/profile-videos

Select the following

Untitled
2009/02/04|15:09:43

Derrick_SA
02-05-2009, 01:06 AM
thanks,
Derrick

Frank_Geppert
02-05-2009, 01:07 AM
When can we buy it? I tried but got directed to the registration area.

I think this new software architecture is a perfect solution to let LW grow more and more in the future. But I was a bit disappointed that I could not read anything about new features I am interested in (3d painting, sculpting, editing vertex normals to create smoothing areas, an inbuilt preview renderer like FPrime or at least a more affordable FPrime).

spherical
02-05-2009, 01:29 AM
No more classic open beta it seems, you gotta pay to play.
Wow. There's a surprise. Used to be that if you spent your talent and expertise and risked your system by exposing it to unknowns to help someone else develop their product, you received either a full license or a hefty discount at the close of the beta program. Then, the MBAs got into the act and convinced everyone that it's good enough to "be among the first to see the new version before anyone else and try out the new features". The risks, talent, expertise and time invested are the same.

In late 2005 I early adopted v9, up from v8.5 and every version upgrade prior back to v5.5. With it came Vue5 and LWCAD; all for $395. A few months later, I bought a second seat, which will likely be up for sale RSN. Now, I'm looking at $800 every 12 months? Seems that the subscription business model was conceived prior to the economy tanking.

Subscriptions to run and/or update software is so Autodesk. Maybe that's the idea.

TOXE
02-05-2009, 01:57 AM
I hate subscription too. I don't want to have a contract without know wich is the direction of development. Some years ago i had a bad experience with Solidthinking and it's enough for me. For now i'm happy with Luxology.

-TOXE

Lewis
02-05-2009, 02:13 AM
Anyone noticed that now MACOS, Win and Linux versions for plugins use SAME file/format so 3rd party needs to make only one file/plugin and it can be used on all platforms ??? That sounds like great solution and no more problems for MAC users and 32/64bit plugin issues :).

Dexter2999
02-05-2009, 02:13 AM
I don't like the idea of a mandatory subscription fee. But no one has said anything about that yet.

I think there is WAY WAY too much outrage following this announcement.

What it amounts to is a pre-sale announcement. Pre-order now and pay under $400. If you pre-buy you are given the opportunity to get in on the Beta...and get a T-shirt. You don't want to be in the Beta? You still get a T-shirt and can wait for your official release come winter. No one says you HAVE to install the beta of CORE.

This is for LW a huge evolutionary step. This kind of thing doesn't come for free.
You don't want to pre-buy now? Don't. Wait for the Winter of 2009 and see if it is released on time and pay the full price. You are paying more but you are getting a bit more certainty in what you are getting for your money.

As for the upgrade policy after this, we will have to wait and see. I hope I am able to skip say 10.3 and then elect to take advantage of 10.5.

Don't get so worked up people. This has all been good news. Don't read all doom and gloom into it.

Tonttu
02-05-2009, 02:40 AM
Is it much different than paying to get 9 beta after 8? If we forget speculation of what happens 2010..

If you're worried about money to fund your hobby in the short term, consider a way some banks survived. (http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2009/01/25/europe/OUKWD-UK-FINANCIAL-UN-DRUGS.php)

DarkLight
02-05-2009, 03:04 AM
Anyone noticed that now MACOS, Win and Linux versions for plugins use SAME file/format so 3rd party needs to make only one file/plugin and it can be used on all platforms ??? That sounds like great solution and no more problems for MAC users and 32/64bit plugin issues :).

I would assume that's for plugins written in python. Any C++ plugins would still have to have different versions.

As long as python is sufficently intergrated then it's powerful enough to handle most plugin tasks anyway

spherical
02-05-2009, 03:05 AM
I don't like the idea of a mandatory subscription fee. But no one has said anything about that yet.

I think there is WAY WAY too much outrage following this announcement.

What it amounts to is a pre-sale announcement. Pre-order now and pay under $400. If you pre-buy you are given the opportunity to get in on the Beta...and get a T-shirt. You don't want to be in the Beta? You still get a T-shirt and can wait for your official release come winter. No one says you HAVE to install the beta of CORE.

This is for LW a huge evolutionary step. This kind of thing doesn't come for free.
Man, do they have you snowed. Get in on the beta... What you mean is, pay $400 to beta test and if you don't pay the $400 in time, it'll cost you another $100. The release won't be until Q4, if then, so you'll be paying again for it. Like I said in another thread, used to be that if you risked your system exposing it to buggy software and gave your expertise, time and trouble to make someone else's product better, you were thanked by either a full license or a hefty discount. Then, the idea came along to sell to people like yourself that "beta testing is a privilege and you should thank us for letting you in on all the new stuff". Now, you are going to pay to participate. Yes, the v9 beta was available to those who upgraded/purchased prior to release BUT the v9 cycle continued for three years for the $395 upgrade price and it included two software packages to boot. Now, in this stressed and strained economy, we are handed a business model that doesn't fit. IMO, the least that could be done to ease this is to offer the beta testers that have been in the program for years and have made the application better, a pittance discount over and above the discount that anyone who just showed up gets. Geez.

Just because a lot of companies are jumping on the subscription bandwagon now doesn't make it right. Borders on extortion; mostly because it is open-ended—like paying "protection money". Hey, worked for the mob. Got the same from the creator of a certain set of well-known plugins. A week before my anniversary date I went to check for a bug fix release because I traced the crashing down to that set of plugins and my password didn't work. "Nope, you have to buy another subscription" was the answer. Ummmm it hasn't run out yet. Only thing I got was an argument and a threat. I'm in the wrong business.

Tonttu
02-05-2009, 03:12 AM
The release won't be until Q4, if then, so you'll be paying again for it.

What do you mean "paying again"?
The FAQ says you'll get the:
Shipping version of the LightWave CORE™ software

The Dommo
02-05-2009, 03:12 AM
I *think* there is no *need* to subscribe - I *think* you can make upgrades when you want to, when you are ready or have the cash, but it will cost more than the subscription.

I *think* that the subscription covers the cost of an upgrade also, but am not sure. I wouldn't want to pay for a subscription (and its benefits) if I then had to pay for upgrades seperately also.

But still it kinda makes sense. In this economy they need to ensure their future too, and pay a hopefully larger / more talented dev team. If people do subscribe then it gives NT known cash injections they can plan around, and rewards the users with a lower price as a reward. If you don't subscribe, then NT have less definite income, but when people make upgrades in a more ad hoc manner, NT get a bit more a reward out of it, whilst still nto ripping off users.

That's assuming I'm understanding right!

StereoMike
02-05-2009, 03:18 AM
full ack @ Dommo
I make the same assumptions. Hardcore includes the release version. Upgrading without subscription costs more but gives you the chance to skip.

mike

Dodgy
02-05-2009, 03:35 AM
That is exactly in from the core faqs. For the membership you get"
# Exclusive access to ongoing builds of LightWave CORE™
# Special pricing
# Shipping version of the LightWave CORE™ software scheduled for Q4 release
# Continued updates to LightWave v9
# First to receive the COCOA version of LightWave
# Private community area with forums for interaction with one another and the LightWave CORE™ development team
# Exclusive development presentations and updates

So you get the final release version. Frankly it's looking good so far, so given a few more videos, I think I'm going to be diving in.

duellestyle
02-05-2009, 04:13 AM
Well, is totally awesome that finally NewTek give to the thirdy party the full access to create more powerfull plugin...hope that NewTek add at first the CUDA instead to wait that someone else will do it.
I think that a smart thing to add other than cuda (so realtime physics etcc..) is GPU rendering! (or better a mix of the 2, CPU and GPU) so we can have also GSLS material in realtime , antialiasing calculate by the GPU so faster and so on. (like the famous PIM plugin never released)
I see these days that some videogames graphics(so realtime) has a better render than one made in 3d software.

About the integration of the modeler in layout well, I'll would be in the 50% that choosed to fuse it. this is cuz we can see more realtime feedback, like rotate an arm, see the deformation and if we don't like it, repaint the weights and in realtime we'll see the effects. Another thing that no software has, is the possibility to render a model process. Like all the steps that we made to model a mesh it could be render, this permit us to create new effects that is hard to do it now, for example a part of a body that grow. They have just to make possible to render the hstory that they already impemented.
Another base aspect to implement is the render workflow. Before render a object, apply this filter or deform it. Kinda implement After Effects in the pipeline render and maybe the compatibility with photoshop and after effects plugins. ;)

so, I really happy for this new born of Lightwave.

Cheer for NewTek

Andy Webb
02-05-2009, 04:36 AM
That is exactly in from the core faqs. For the membership you get"
# Exclusive access to ongoing builds of LightWave CORE™
# Special pricing
# Shipping version of the LightWave CORE™ software scheduled for Q4 release
# Continued updates to LightWave v9
# First to receive the COCOA version of LightWave
# Private community area with forums for interaction with one another and the LightWave CORE™ development team
# Exclusive development presentations and updates

So you get the final release version. Frankly it's looking good so far, so given a few more videos, I think I'm going to be diving in.

I'll be diving in too :D

colkai
02-05-2009, 04:44 AM
I'm going to need to see more, money being what it is these days, I need to see something in action for real. So far, though the tech faq sounds impressive and all, it doesn't mean diddly to me, it says what could be possible, not what is there and running with what features.

As a hobbyist, I'd like to see something in action please, if features are not there I want, I would get a good kicking from the missus if I spend hundreds of pounds on something that didn't need to be bought.

tawolf
02-05-2009, 05:05 AM
I would love the ability to use a little python on some of the rigs that i get involved with. I still have trouble with some of the code in "Relativity" .

Now, it looks like a good physics engine will happen and that I will be able to script an emitter or time a collision. Sure is worth it to me, plus I get a new shirt, and I get to be "Hardcore" wow, nobody else has offered anything close. Jeez, it's like Christmas around here

I'm in, where do I sign-up?

adk
02-05-2009, 06:24 AM
I'm just in it for the COCOA version of LightWave :)

In all seriousness tho ... I really like what I foresee in terms of potential, scope and flexibility. The dog food analogy by Jonas has got me in as well. From reading the the tech FAQ I think it's what I've always imagined the new LW to be (it's been a while so I'm a little hazy on all the bits I dreamed about) and more.

Like everyone else I really want to see more ... more... & more on those things Jay mentioned & my only hope is that NT get slightly sexier wrapping next time. This is not knocking Jay nor Jonas, but the material was a little bit light on for me. The plunge is pretty much a given however.

Oh ... and I'm planning on holding a water gun to Exception's head to hurry up with those tutes. It's either that or a cheese stick ;)

infinityloop
02-05-2009, 06:59 AM
I am very curious about the GUI.
I hope that they reworked it entirely.

@Newtek
when will we see some screenshots and/or demo videos? :)

*edit*
ah there is something allready http://www.ustream.tv/Newtek/profile-videos

TOXE
02-05-2009, 09:45 AM
The most important thing for me at the moment is to have a complete rendering feature list (including render speed) and some videos or images.

After i'll make a decision about membership...

-TOXE

lardbros
02-05-2009, 10:16 AM
I'll be diving in too :D

Well, i missed the actual reveal due to a mates birthday do getting rescheduled due to the weather... GREAT!

But i've just watched it on another streaming site, and after hearing everyone's responses being quite negative, i REALLY CAN'T SEE WHAT YOU WERE MOANING ABOUT!!!

Yes, the video could have looked a little more pro, but the content was there and why moan about 20minutes worth of video, it's plenty for me to know i want to buy into this product, so in my very humble opinion, i think Newtek's marketing has definitely worked.

Yes, there is nothing 100% original as yet (but a complete rewrite, is what EVERYONE wanted!), but you just wait until the huge array of clever plugin developers get their hands on the SDK... it will truly be remarkable, i guarantee!

Lightwolf
02-05-2009, 10:20 AM
Anyone noticed that now MACOS, Win and Linux versions for plugins use SAME file/format so 3rd party needs to make only one file/plugin and it can be used on all platforms ??? That sounds like great solution and no more problems for MAC users and 32/64bit plugin issues :).
Erm, you still need access to all three platforms to actually compile and test the plugin.
Delivery will be one bundle (which is actually a fancy folder structure) - and it may or may not contain the binaries for all platforms.

Cheers,
Mike

archijam
02-05-2009, 10:47 AM
but if this puppies been in the pipe 2 yrs, and it basically a hole new 3d app... what gives with all the updates in this 9.6 cycle... i like my new 9.6 too... but now i feel like its kinda consigned to the bin in many ways... and why've they bothered, etc??

I suspect that the new additions are not incompatible with the new architecture. It also would explain why chilton built up for a 64bit mac release, then held out at the end...

Hopefully we can stop usongvthe word 'legacy' soon ;)

A Mejias
02-05-2009, 07:35 PM
Man, do they have you snowed. Get in on the beta... What you mean is, pay $400 to beta test and if you don't pay the $400 in time, it'll cost you another $100. The release won't be until Q4, if then, so you'll be paying again for it. Like I said in another thread, used to be that if you risked your system exposing it to buggy software and gave your expertise, time and trouble to make someone else's product better, you were thanked by either a full license or a hefty discount. Then, the idea came along to sell to people like yourself that "beta testing is a privilege and you should thank us for letting you in on all the new stuff". Now, you are going to pay to participate. Yes, the v9 beta was available to those who upgraded/purchased prior to release BUT the v9 cycle continued for three years for the $395 upgrade price and it included two software packages to boot. Now, in this stressed and strained economy, we are handed a business model that doesn't fit. IMO, the least that could be done to ease this is to offer the beta testers that have been in the program for years and have made the application better, a pittance discount over and above the discount that anyone who just showed up gets. Geez.

Just because a lot of companies are jumping on the subscription bandwagon now doesn't make it right. Borders on extortion; mostly because it is open-ended—like paying "protection money". Hey, worked for the mob. Got the same from the creator of a certain set of well-known plugins. A week before my anniversary date I went to check for a bug fix release because I traced the crashing down to that set of plugins and my password didn't work. "Nope, you have to buy another subscription" was the answer. Ummmm it hasn't run out yet. Only thing I got was an argument and a threat. I'm in the wrong business.

WRONG! It's MEMBERSHIP to an open beta. The membership gets you the beta AND THE FINAL VERSION.

Andrewstopheles
02-05-2009, 08:44 PM
First, congrats to NewTek on a well executed viral marketing plan. Don't worry about the streaming issues, it happens to everybody.

IMHO I need to see more. I think NT needs to let us try a demo before purchasing the new product. I understand the much higher pricing model (I paid for LW9 and got all updates since then free, now I will be paying more than that is clear) if it's for a much better product, but it'll take a demo or at least a more detailed demo video to show me what I am paying for.

I want to be convinced, so convince me please.

geothefaust
02-05-2009, 08:47 PM
Erm, you still need access to all three platforms to actually compile and test the plugin.
Delivery will be one bundle (which is actually a fancy folder structure) - and it may or may not contain the binaries for all platforms.

Cheers,
Mike

That's how I've always thought it worked, but I read this in the FAQ:


Traditionally, LightWave has always benefited from a healthy array of products offered by third parties. These plug–ins have often proven to be ground-breaking; however, the vendor companies have often complained of restricted access. LightWave CORE™ offers a system wherein all plug-ins within the system are essentially components that are registered and managed by the LightWave CORE™ . We have endeavored to make it as easy as possible to either add to the system, or simply replace a previously registered component. By default, the plug-ins are multi-platform (mach-o bundle), enabling vendors to ship a single file to support Windows, Linux and Mac, in both 32 and 64 bit versions.

http://www.newtek.com/core/techfaq.php

Drakaran
02-09-2009, 08:35 PM
Watching the video, I'm reminded a WHOLE LOT of the XSI 7 Siggraph reveal (ICE). Actually made me a little worried when they even mentioned the bit about the other 3 packages being owned by Autodesk (I guess they aren't acknowledging Cinema 4D (whoops there guys! LOL) ... and I guess I can understand why they think Modo isn't at the same level.. especially since Modo seems to be leaning towards architecture and engineering)

It seems they are expanding the nodes concept from rendering into modeling, but what they showed, the actual tools don't really look any different which worries me, especially in areas like UV which I've been waiting to be improved for the last 9 years. There needs to be some graceful way of dealing with unwrapping (seams and pelts anyone?) and the ability to use multiple UV tiles.

Also, I haven't had a chance to really use 9.5+, but I'm hoping they have improved the morph handling as well. Modo has a REALLY EASY 1-click set-up and check/uncheck to enable/disable the morph.

Lightwolf
02-10-2009, 05:33 AM
That's how I've always thought it worked, but I read this in the FAQ:
That's precisely what it says though:

By default, the plug-ins are multi-platform (mach-o bundle), enabling vendors to ship a single file to support Windows, Linux and Mac, in both 32 and 64 bit versions.
It doesn't say a word about compiling, only about shipping.

Cheers,
Mike