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jaxtone
01-31-2009, 06:18 AM
http://www.cornucopia3d.com/tutorials/load_motion.swf

Hey yaīll workarounders! Itīs time for another Earthquake signed by the old Swede! So let`em old habits fade away and open up for new ideas!

To me this looks as a time saver! (... and yes I know that thereīs some of you that you suffered by learning the hard way during the years while you probably spent thousands of hours twisting and tweaking your scripts until the sun dies once and for all! Sorry but that donīt impress on anyone else but a sad X-wife, dead house pets or missed lunch breaks!)

You do not need to convince me that there are optional ways of doing this in Lightwave, or that the freedom is not total for the preset characters in this little film, though itīs not the problem!

The problem is that the optional alternatives in Lightwave are too complicated, have a very slow work flow from basic idea to full action, and that itīs obvious that itīs generated in the past with a very limited "User Friendly Interface" from the scratch!

New times are coming and new times need new solutions! I will never believe that a narrow bunch of tehcnical skilled people are enough for any product to survive financially, the masses are needed to make a company grow. So please Mr Tech, save me one thousand and ten lines of scripts, arguments of how easy you personally thinks it is doing this with ninetynine hundred mouseclicks and keyboard actions Im not interested! I just wanna see new, fresh and fancy features as an alternative from todays miserable Character Animation in Lightwave!


Will a similar time saver and user friendly interface come with Lightwave 10, or does Newtek believe that the majority of users will accept a lousy, slow and complicated Character Animation part of the program in the long run?

AbnRanger
01-31-2009, 08:13 AM
It looked like the UI was getting a bit of a makeover from the screenshots of the clues/puzzles circulating around regarding LW CORE
http://www.newtek.com/core/screen.html

I kind of dig it, but still prefer Matt's LWvX designs...

Hey...wait a bloody minute. Matt what did you do with it?
http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/

Interesting...?

geothefaust
01-31-2009, 11:38 AM
Matt's UI design is probably going to be reality, assuming custom UIs can be built.

Actually his site was down for quite a while there, until yesterday. ;)

Matt
01-31-2009, 12:04 PM
Actually his site was down for quite a while there, until yesterday. ;)

I was just going to update it with the later designs I had done, and take off the older out of date ones.

But the last 'finished' screen looked like the attached (made to look like current LightWave).

Which I need to point out, is NOT, I repeat NOT anything to do with LightWave Core.

Matt
01-31-2009, 12:09 PM
Basically here is a more up to date look to the design I did, it hasn't been applied to all of the screen, just the top.

But this is what it looks like so far.

Again, I repeat, this is work I did a long time ago, and is NOT in anyway related to LightWave Core.

Captain Obvious
01-31-2009, 12:36 PM
Vue always struck me as a good example of how NOT to build a user interface. It's a nice piece of software, but it makes me want to beat someone up.

Matt
01-31-2009, 12:42 PM
Hey...wait a bloody minute. Matt what did you do with it?
http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/

Interesting...?

I have had quite a few people ask me where the old site went, so I've put it back up behind the soon to be new site for those that haven't seen it.

I didn't think people went to it anymore to be honest, which is why I took it down.

Anyway, you can get to the old site here:

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/original_vx_project/index.html

And of course the main page when done will be here:

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/index.html

Thanks for the support!

Cheers
Matt

AbnRanger
01-31-2009, 01:02 PM
Basically there is more up to date look to the design I did, that looks like this, but it hasn't been applied to all of the screen, just the top.

But this is what it looks like.

Again, I repeat, this is work I did a long time ago, and is NOT in anyway related to LightWave Core.Ooooh...We likes it! We wants it! Must have....P-R-E-C-I-O-U-S!!! :D

Seriously, I hope NT gives you a call on this. Really clean and modern, IMO. :thumbsup:

danielkaiser
01-31-2009, 01:08 PM
Vue always struck me as a good example of how NOT to build a user interface. It's a nice piece of software, but it makes me want to beat someone up.

Yea Vue's UI looks like it was designed by a 12 year old lots of wasted space and those icons, give me buttons with text there's no confusion as to their use and from the looks of the CORE samples will have a more flexible interface to work with.

Jaxtone if you want something simpler try crayons, from my first purchase of Sculpt 3d in 87' to now, things have done nothing but get more complex.

AbnRanger
01-31-2009, 01:32 PM
Yeah...you know, I'm fully aware of Maya's deep toolset, but I just can't help but feel like that UI is on the toyish side. Just doesn't seem to match it's serious capabilities. That's what I like about Matt's UI designs. No frills...no colorful array of toys littered across the screen...just clean and professional-looking.
I like Modo's UI as well, but I think Matt's is even better due to it's very crisp and clean appearance...it's simple, so you're not assaulted with a massive group of icons and rollouts.
The samples are somewhat in line with that, but I still wish they would work with Matt on it. He's worked hard on it, obviously, and it's the best UI design I've seen in any program.

Your mileage may vary, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :D

artstorm
01-31-2009, 01:54 PM
Basically there is more up to date look to the design I did, that looks like this, but it hasn't been applied to all of the screen, just the top.

But this is what it looks like.

Again, I repeat, this is work I did a long time ago, and is NOT in anyway related to LightWave Core.

I really like where you're going with the vX2 design, looks really smooth and I'd love to have that in front of me while working long shifts. Seems like Core might make that a reality if it's skinnable. Will be cool to see your next update of this. :thumbsup:

Cageman
01-31-2009, 02:49 PM
I really like where you're going with the vX2 design, looks really smooth and I'd love to have that in front of me while working long shifts. Seems like Core might make that a reality if it's skinnable. Will be cool to see your next update of this. :thumbsup:

Quoted for 100% agreement. And yes... if LightWave Core is skinnable, I'll get in line to recieve a vX version. :)

jasonwestmas
01-31-2009, 02:58 PM
Quoted for 100% agreement. And yes... if LightWave Core is skinnable, I'll get in line to recieve a vX version. :)

If those screen shots are real that I saw (Not Matt's) it looks like several different skins are available. http://www.newtek.com/core/screen.html

Exception
01-31-2009, 03:21 PM
It looked like the UI was getting a bit of a makeover from the screenshots of the clues/puzzles circulating around regarding LW CORE
http://www.newtek.com/core/screen.html


I would be fairly sure that is NOT how it will look like. That's a screenshot of a very early production where the interface has not actually been designed. It just shows that it can have themes, different layouts, a node editor and a webbrowser inside of a viewport. It shows capabilities, not style. I think they would have been crazy to ignore all the amazing work Matt has done, so it would be far more likely to see something like that arise out of the development at some point. But likely not this early yet. I think LW v10 is probably at least a year off.

artstorm
01-31-2009, 03:24 PM
I think LW v10 is probably at least a year off.

I think so too, it wouldn't make any sense at all to render 9.6 obsolete just after it's release.

jasonwestmas
01-31-2009, 03:33 PM
Nope, I'm guessing 6-7 Months and 10.0 will be released :D I think alot of 10 is in 9 already but isn't fully realized or functional till we use it in 10.

Exception
01-31-2009, 03:44 PM
I think so too, it wouldn't make any sense at all to render 9.6 obsolete just after it's release.

Well don't forget 9.6 is an unpaid upgrade.. releasing vX soon makes a lot of sense financially, and if it's such a huge development leap as it's showing to be, people would certainly buy it without qualms.
However, I don't think that will happen. I think it has to go through a massive user-test run before we see anything, if not more silence time.

Nicolas Jordan
01-31-2009, 04:20 PM
If in fact that was a real screen grab of Lightwave Core that we had seen after putting in all those passwords etc then we have yet to see the bottom of the interface window which could be more revealing than the top and left side of the interface window.

Vue is a much different program than Lightwave with a UI designed to do specific tasks but I do like the idea of a browser window that previews object thumbnails.

Intuition
01-31-2009, 04:48 PM
I was just going to update it with the later designs I had done, and take off the older out of date ones.

But the last 'finished' screen looked like the attached (made to look like current LightWave).

Which I need to point out, is NOT, I repeat NOT anything to do with LightWave Core.

Matt I have always loved your custom interface for LW. :heart:

You've had pics of it up for some time now right (2004 or earlier)?

I wish it was available. :thumbsup:

Was it ever functional or just a photoshop?

Also, no matter what you say I will not be surprised to see it in core.

DISCLAIMER: I am also not making any claims!

Serling
01-31-2009, 05:21 PM
"Yeah...you know, I'm fully aware of Maya's deep toolset, but I just can't help but feel like that UI is on the toyish side."

I've been trying to use Maya's 8.5 Personal Learning Edition and - quite frankly - hate the UI. It crams 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag and trying to follow the iconography quickly - especially for someone trying to learn it - is like trying to read ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs.

I know people use and like Maya, but IMHO it has a much steeper learning curve than LightWave and much of that has to do with its cluttered and confusing interface, at least for someone new to it, like me.

Matt
01-31-2009, 05:27 PM
Matt I have always loved your custom interface for LW. :heart:

You've had pics of it up for some time now right (2004 or earlier)?

I wish it was available. :thumbsup:

Was it ever functional or just a photoshop?

Also, no matter what you say I will not be surprised to see it in core.

DISCLAIMER: I am also not making any claims!

Even earlier than that, I first posted it here (http://www.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/38499.html?1044746768) back in 2003.

It all started in this thread (http://www.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/38155.html?1043836181) though, with some very primitive mockups that had been sat on my hard drive for months.

So it was 2002 when I started thinking about this stuff, here is the earliest thread (http://www.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/37897.html?1043664140) I can find when I started thinking about the UI.

And no, these were only ever Photoshop mockups, nothing real.

Nowhere Man
01-31-2009, 05:28 PM
In Vue the thing I hate the most is Function Editor, its soo powerful, but you have to fight it every time you want to connect two nodes! (and who's idea was to make connections in direction contrary to the arrows) :compbeati Besides, it uses some strange maths, I always thought that anything multiplied by zero is zero, but it turned out not to be so in Vue.

About Matt's designs, I think that its just the way a 21st century, professional 3D app should look like.

AbnRanger
01-31-2009, 07:47 PM
In Vue the thing I hate the most is Function Editor, its soo powerful, but you have to fight it every time you want to connect two nodes! (and who's idea was to make connections in direction contrary to the arrows) :compbeati Besides, it uses some strange maths, I always thought that anything multiplied by zero is zero, but it turned out not to be so in Vue.

About Matt's designs, I think that its just the way a 21st century, professional 3D app should look like.If LW CORE does indeed bring some dramatic change such as integrating Modeler and Layout, etc., then what better way to communicate the message "We're back and we mean business," than to have to have the body reflect the work the chassis has received...with Matt's new vX design (as the standard UI).

JMCarrigan
01-31-2009, 09:58 PM
If LW CORE does indeed bring some dramatic change such as integrating Modeler and Layout, etc., then what better way to communicate the message "We're back and we mean business," than to have to have the body reflect the work the chassis has received...with Matt's new vX design (as the standard UI).

No better way that I can think of.

riki
01-31-2009, 11:46 PM
Personally I really hope they rework the design. Not just in terms of appearance but also with regards to the placement of menu items.

Dexter2999
01-31-2009, 11:58 PM
Matt if the next version is skinnable...

Make yours available for $1.

At the least it will pay for your upgrade.

AbnRanger
02-01-2009, 01:29 AM
Even though we've been able to change the color scheme and all during the v9 cycle, Matt's UI design goes deeper than that, and the multi-colored standard UI that LW ships with is a bit on the tacky side, IMHO.

So, even though you'll have control to change it, Matt's UI as the standard will be the one that the general public will see and form an impression from.

If Max, Maya, XSI, and C4D users see a review or clip of this new change, they are more likely to form a more favorable impression, just based on appearance...from the start....just like seeing a sweet, tricked out Muscle car...you get closer and ask the owner, "Hey, mind if I take a look under the hood?"...that's what you want the UI to do.

If it's still all multi-colored....green, blue and gray it says "Hey everybody, grab your polyester digs and get on board The Partridge family Bus!" :D
http://www.partridgefamilytemple.com/bus.htm
http://video.aol.com/show/partridge-family

COBRASoft
02-01-2009, 07:11 AM
Matt: I hope you realize I'm just kidding on the CORE site. Your idea of UI is amazing. I'm confronted with UI daily due to my job and I'm lucky to have a lot of 3rd party components at hand to help me with it. From where do you have this experience or is it just pure talent?

thomascheng
02-01-2009, 07:28 AM
First, Awesome UI. It is super clean and easy to look and understand. If lightwave is skinable, I would definitely put both your classic and modern version up for download.

Matt
02-01-2009, 08:47 AM
From where do you have this experience or is it just pure talent?

Pure unadulterated talent! LOL :D

Just kidding, well, I trained as an industrial designer, which although is mainly manufactured products, a good deal of the thinking behind it all is making things easier to use for people, I believe the same philosophy can be applied to anything, from a DVD player to well, an interface for a 3D program!

In my third year at University, I spend a year at Xerox in their Industrial Design and Human Factors department, where I gained a lot from working alongside UI specialists.

That's the professional side of things, but I also used to program a little way back on the Amiga, doing stuff with GadTools and Intuition in C. So I would hope I have a passing knowledge of when I suggest something that is just ridiculous to code.

Couple that with using LightWave for quite some time, I think I have a good mix of all the skills needed to propose a plausible UI that could improve LightWave considerably.

Okay enough blowing my own trumpet!

Also, here's the thing, if I suggest something that people genuinely don't think works, I'm happy to work with them to change it. I don't have an ego when it comes to this stuff, I hope at least people don't think I do, and if so, please tell me!

:)

zapper1998
02-01-2009, 08:56 AM
I like the GUI its user friendly, simple, workable, screen space is maximized to its fullist and its LW..

The new GUI's are nice but they take away screen space, imho..

LW's GUI is modern, Usable, Funtional, and you can modify it, change colors..

IMHO it's looks better than the rest of em...

LW's GUI is In it's on Class why make it look like the rest... ????

LW sticks out when compared to the others, why would they want it to look like the rest of em.. ??

Michael

COBRASoft
02-01-2009, 09:05 AM
Hey Matt,

I remember my Amiga days very well. Something like MUI is hard to find nowadays on any other system, even today!

There are however generalizations at work in most modern UI's independant of the OS. Greyish background with soft gradients. Some soft colors, but hard enough to attrack the attention where needed. Draggable panels/windows/parts. Multi monitor support. Expandable/collapsable 'things'. And a reasonable menu at the top.
I've checked your designs and they follow these 'rules' quite well. I hope that NT has paid enough attention to them...

And hey, there's nothing wrong with a little 'showing off' if you really did all those things (XEROX and so). It is nice knowing some more about the background of a UI master and I actually asked you for it.

Greetings,
Sigurd

Kuzey
02-01-2009, 09:25 AM
Btw Matt, that second version with the darker shades is looking so much better :)

Was that inspired by the newtek forum changes ?

Kuzey

Matt
02-01-2009, 10:57 AM
Btw Matt, that second version with the darker shades is looking so much better :)

Was that inspired by the newtek forum changes ?

Kuzey

Oh no, it was done quite a while ago, but never posted as it wasn't fully finished, I'm constantly tweaking these when I get ideas, I have a folder full of stuff!

Matt
02-01-2009, 11:01 AM
And hey, there's nothing wrong with a little 'showing off' if you really did all those things (XEROX and so). It is nice knowing some more about the background of a UI master and I actually asked you for it.

I did, as a result of being there, my final year thesis at Uni' was about the pros and cons of computers and software within the designers workspace.

Captain Obvious
02-01-2009, 02:43 PM
If you want to have a look at a good UI, I recommend Houdini. In terms of basic layout functionality, I think it's hard to beat. There are obviously things that could be a lot better concerning where a particular tool can be found, but the way the viewports work is simply phenomenal. I like modo's customizing ability, but it can sometimes get a bit confusing because there is little in the way of "foundation" — yes, you have the freedom to change things, but with that freedom comes confusion. I think Houdini has found a nice balance in that regard.

And then there are all the simple things, like hotkeys being applied to the thing you're looking at. Focus follows mouse is a horrible UI convention in an operating system in total, but for viewport-specific functions, it is absolutely crucial. For example, Houdini can maximize any viewport with a hotkey. Pressing that hotkey will maximize the viewport your pointer is currently over, NOT the latest viewport you clicked in. modo does the same exact thing. A lot of applications does this stupid rubbish with having to click in a viewport before the context-specific hotkeys work in it, and Lightwave does it too with some things. Pressing 'p' in Layout will generally open the properties panel for your currently selected item type. However, with the render viewer, it only works if the viewer is the latest used window, regardless of where your pointer is. And if you press p to open the window, then p again to close it, the render window loses focus! This is just bad UI design. Or, rather, I would go so far as to say it's a lack of design. There isn't bad thought behind it — there is NO thought behind it. I would love to see LW10 to do away with stupid crap like that and make focus follows mouse, as it's bloody well supposed to for context-sensitive hotkeys.

Snosrap
02-01-2009, 04:01 PM
Vue always struck me as a good example of how NOT to build a user interface. It's a nice piece of software, but it makes me want to beat someone up.

And I'd be right behind you!
Snosrap

Matt
02-02-2009, 04:51 AM
I like modo's customizing ability, but it can sometimes get a bit confusing because there is little in the way of "foundation" — yes, you have the freedom to change things, but with that freedom comes confusion.

I know exactly what you mean, last time I tried the demo this is how I felt when I started seeing what you could do with the UI.

Almost too much configuration, you got lost in it. I do remember I changed one menu, and then for the life of me couldn't find where I could get it back!

Had to revert!

Kuzey
02-02-2009, 05:14 AM
Oh no, it was done quite a while ago, but never posted as it wasn't fully finished, I'm constantly tweaking these when I get ideas, I have a folder full of stuff!

Ahhh...cool, is it any close to completion yet.....because I want a look see :D

Kuzey

Kuzey
02-02-2009, 06:24 AM
Talking about interfaces, someone has a blog all about the Adobe UI design flaws...it's quite funny :D

http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/

Kuzey

Matt
02-02-2009, 07:23 AM
Talking about interfaces, someone has a blog all about the Adobe UI design flaws...it's quite funny :D

http://adobegripes.tumblr.com/

Kuzey

LOL, that's my kinda blog! Some classics in there that bug the hell outa me too!

COBRASoft
02-02-2009, 08:34 AM
The blog shows interesting bugs, but the language is just over the f*cking edge.

Lightwolf
02-02-2009, 09:22 AM
The blog shows interesting bugs, but the language is just over the f*cking edge.
No sh!t...

Cheers,
Mike

Captain Obvious
02-02-2009, 06:57 PM
I know exactly what you mean, last time I tried the demo this is how I felt when I started seeing what you could do with the UI.

Almost too much configuration, you got lost in it. I do remember I changed one menu, and then for the life of me couldn't find where I could get it back!

Had to revert!
I do rather like the fact that you can customize the UI even down to the panel where you customize the UI, but yeah, it can get confusing and destructive. It's like the infinite customizability of Linux.