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View Full Version : Linux or Windows 7 " what should i install"



OnlineRender
01-29-2009, 05:52 AM
Ok its that time of the month to reformat and install new operating system .
Im torn between Linux and Micro$loth usually i have mythbuntu installed in the background but i think im going hardcore and just installing only 1 system mainly Linux any suggestion .
I know i will have software conflictions but linux seems to handle proccesses and network alot better .

Insight would be good

Speedmonk42
01-29-2009, 07:55 AM
Ok its that time of the month to reformat and install new operating system .
Im torn between Linux and Micro$loth usually i have mythbuntu installed in the background but i think im going hardcore and just installing only 1 system mainly Linux any suggestion .
I know i will have software conflictions but linux seems to handle proccesses and network alot better .

Insight would be good

For what?

If you want to use LW and Photoshop..... if you want to crete a file server.... if you want to run....

OnlineRender
01-29-2009, 09:29 AM
for my networking machine mainly , i have 3 pc , 1 for rendering "offline" , one for building modeling and high proccessor demands, one for networking and my laptop for games and stuff

mattclary
01-29-2009, 12:34 PM
one for networking

WTF is "networking"? Surfing the net?

Philbert
01-30-2009, 01:57 AM
I just installed Windows 7 on my old P4 2.8GHz 1GB ram machine that previously had XP MCE on it. So far 7 is fantastic, really runs smoothly, better than XP did I think. The network was extremely easy to set up, practically a few clicks and I was able to connect with the other two computers here.

OnlineRender
01-30-2009, 10:05 AM
WTF is "networking"? Surfing the net?

no then i would have said surfing the net , i have duel booted anyway , im using mythbuntu to create a server enabling me to use my ps3 and xbox for direct video streaming

Intuition
01-30-2009, 11:50 AM
Just a few notes for you about linux.

Linux is not like windows or macOS. Many of the distros have a gui and with them you can browse the web and run a few included apps.

Beyond that, when you get into wanting to run say a 3d app or say a game that has a linux build you will enter into the real realm of linux where a simple task of trying to install something has you up for a few nights a weeks before it is successfully installed and even at that point it could go further trying to get the app to run properly.

If you have a "linux savvy" friend it would be best to have he/she over to go through a few things for you.

Linux has many problems as an OS. I mean this not trying to diss or hate on linux. I have fedora 10, sabayon4, Suse, Ubuntu, and I use Debian at work.

Where linux has problems is that you may have an app installed that works one day. Then the OS says there are kernel updates and you download them only to find half of your apps and features are broken due to incompatibility or library conflict issues.

This is mainly due to the fact that all the apps keep many files in similar folders instead of seperate folders. Sure there are the apps main files but the kernal dependencies are all shared so one app may install a new libx file over an old one and BAM program no longer works and a re-install wont fix it.

Also, in linux you will have to get used to command line typing again (like the old dos days).

Many, and I mean many, of the OS's gui have the familiar windows with the icons that look all shiny but they wont run on a double click. You'll need to open a terminal and run most things from there so....

...instead of just clicking a "setup" or "install" icon you end up having to pull up a command line and then trying to run the file form there... but...

....its not even that easy....because many things you will do in linux require different levels of permissions.

So, I wanted one file to be copied to another folder. It says "access denied"... eventually I find out that the main profile (administrator) isn't really the top of the ladder in linux. Nope, have to get "super user access" so even though you create a profile or just use the administrator you still need to, and often I might add, change you status to "super user" to do most things. Then once I changed to super user "su" I tried to grab the file and drag it to another folder...."access denied"....

This was because I didn't have "folder ownership". So I had to type out a string of commands to tell linux that I, as the top dawg super user, have ownership access to the folder. Also, make sure you type the directory correctly because it is case sensitive. Using Tab often will help in checking the folder name as you type, kind of a smart type function.

Ok so I get it right but...

.....OS says.....

You must be in "root" to run command.

Oh jeez. So, I have become. Super user. I have told the computer I OWN the folder. Now I have to go back to the root directory and type out the whole directory path and then I will have ownership...

.......do this.....

Ok.... I type the command carefully, with all case sensitive issues, as a super user. It works.

Now I can drag and drop the file in the folder I wanted.

Now lets run the file before I lose super user status and ownership ....

Oh, DOH, wont work. Darn it I need some library and glib files to run it.

Ok, lets go download them. Drat can't just get on the web and double click a download link.

Must tell linux the whole path in the command line.

Drat I don't have the folder to put it in. Ok I browse to the root folder and try to create a folder with the usual right click create folder.

Well the command is there but its greyed out. Oh man, more command lining. mkdir command now must be typed with the whole folder path.

Ok. I type the command and proper folder path..... access denied... must run as super user.

DOH.... When I browsed to the folder I lost the super user and became regular user. GRrrr. Ok in terminal type... "su".

Start again ad nauseum.... finally get all typing correct and I can now download the library and glib files. Will take 15 minutes but... I need a break anyways.

About two more three hour sessions like this a night I finally got XSi 7 installed. Mind you it took a while because at one point the installer started but about 80% of the way through another library depenency was discovered not to exist so I had to go get another one from a different place.

I still have yet to get the SPM server installed correctly.

My point is this. If you can get a linux person that knows how to breeze through all this stuff and setup the station and software for you. Do it. I mean, learn everything you can about it too when that person is there so you can repeat it and understand why you would do certain things.

Because at the end of this flaming rainbow of death is a nice OS that will run your apps very lean (low low ram usage) and in a neat interface (many different distros have neat ways around and features like compiz fusion). I also highly recommend a package and library app that can show you the dependancies in a gui because you don't want to look at pages of files in command line to get them all correct.

We run debian at DD and I use maya and maya/vray as well as a few others in linux and they run very very fast and lean. I can spin a full car cad file around like it was almost nothing. Renders fast and everything. Yet the road to this treasure is not through clicking installers and windowing around like we are used to in a mac or windows os. Its a command line world. Sure the pretty icons and windows are there for you to roll around but you'll have to setup a shortcut with all the command line operations for yourself since the software devs often don't do this for you.

Also, like I mentioned before, The apps do not install the needed dependencies and files they require in the installer (like every mac and windows app does) and they do not separate them in individual folders (like mac and windows does) so installing one app or updating can destroy an entire set of installs that will make you lament looking at the command line again.

Ubuntu is the easiest one because they have removed many of these redundancies but... Ubuntu is also not very good at running 3d apps like xsi, maya.

Try updating the nvdia drivers. Not a double click icon either. Its a command line sequence you'll just love triple checking.

So again. Please understand that Linux can blow away a windows and mac in performance but you will not get it easy and it will require a broader knowledge of the OS and its file structure, permissions and commands then win or macOs ever did for the end user.

Even windows vista with all the DRM and security stuff turned on is easier to run.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/cautionary.png

Linux. Its great but you will have to earn it to enjoy it.

ivanze
01-31-2009, 01:14 AM
Wow, I just lost interest in Linux. Very nice and illustrative explanation, Intuition. :)

DiedonD
01-31-2009, 01:23 AM
Nah dont go to Linux, the only good thing about it, is that it doesnt has viruses!

But if youre gonna go for Windows, dont take Vista! See the operating system should, by me, just SHUTUP and do its job somewhere there in the shadows, and keep doing the rough and techy thingies, while you on the other hand get to do glorious CG and of course LW!

Vista wont leave you be at that! Itll drain your resources from artwork to its lousy (apply disgusted voice) 'operating system neccecities', that werent so much of a neccesisty before in XP for example.

Windows is trying to lure everyone into a 'higher operating syste so go buy higher RAM and processors - and vice versa' game! So no need to go by to that. Just take XP, and youll be alright to work on the rest easily while the operating system stays right where it belongs, handling issues that involve the operating system, and it does so without much hype. Just works there peacefully!

I for one came from Vista to XP.

And, am not much of a techie, so dont challenge me there, cause I might not even nderstand what youre saying even!

Intuition
01-31-2009, 01:38 AM
Yeah, my goal here wasn't to say that "Linux sucks" or anything like that because, once tamed, its a mean efficient beast.

I just wanted to give a glimpse so that one would know the bumpy ride they are in for, and that they are ready for a learning process that will not happen in a few nights.

I mean for code savvy programmer types this stuff would be 2nd nature. For the end user types it just represents alot of fiddling around when we just want to get the app running and go to work.

I mean, I am getting a little dell net book and will probably put Sabayon, Suse or Ubuntu on it because I only need it for internet browsing, file transport, and the random demo reel or clip showing,. Also my mp3 collection could cruise with me on the netbook. So for this general purpose the lean OS will not have to be changed much like it would have to be for running 3d apps. In this instance linux is perfect and does the job well.

3D apps? Again, I must stress. Find your local Linux guru and have a sit down so he/she can show you all the GUI solutions like "yast" or "YUM" or "appget" that will help you gather the needed dependancies and files for installing 3d apps or games in linux.

I'd say go for windows 7 if your interest is running lightwave, maya, xsi, or max and definitely for the games.

---edit----
Heh, actually I'd say and still do say xp64 is the way to go. Heh but that's risky now since Microsoft doesn't support it anymore. Still my fav thing about xp64 is that you install it and it comes with nothing. After the install you are staring at a desktop with a recycle bin and a my computer icon. To me thats the lean and lovely way to start a new computer. With a clean slate and minimal ram usage.

ivanze
01-31-2009, 01:58 AM
I've been testing Windows 7 in my Desktop and Laptop and I can say it is really fast. My laptop with Vista took forever to boot but now with Windows 7 it boots really fast and everything feels much faster.

akademus
01-31-2009, 03:13 AM
I've been testing Windows 7 in my Desktop and Laptop and I can say it is really fast. My laptop with Vista took forever to boot but now with Windows 7 it boots really fast and everything feels much faster.

I'm thinking 7 more and more. I found out it uses same driver architecture as Vista so it's gold for me. My laptop work fine with Vista (couple of months old) while the old one struggled so I had to turn it back to it's original XP.

If you're making a whole new system, why not make multiple boots so you can try each of them and see what suits you best!

Philbert
01-31-2009, 03:19 AM
Yes, when I installed 7 I had no hardware problems at all. Some people online said they had trouble with the GeForce 4 video card in that machine, but I didn't. it worked perfectly, aero glass and all. Unfortunately I access that computer mostly through Remote Desktop and aero doesn't show through there.

mattclary
01-31-2009, 07:11 AM
7 is pretty awesome so far for me. Much smoother than Vista.

Ernest
01-31-2009, 11:58 AM
Yes, when I installed 7 I had no hardware problems at all. Some people online said they had trouble with the GeForce 4 video card in that machine, but I didn't. it worked perfectly, aero glass and all. Unfortunately I access that computer mostly through Remote Desktop and aero doesn't show through there.I had some trouble with my monitors in the Windows 7 open beta version. The Cintiq kept getting a green tint that sometimes flickers off and returns. The text also looks a bit fuzzy there. I think it's because it doesn't like the refresh rate. Windows 7 sets both monitors to 59Hz at the native 1680x1050. I try to set them to 60 and as soon as I apply it, they both change back to 59. In XP they work at 60Hz and the color is flawless. On a normal Viewsonic monitor, I don't see those issues but it also can't go to 60Hz while the Cintiq set up as a secondary monitor. I wanted to try newer nVidia drivers, since the 180 handles dual video cards much better but since it's not wddm 1.1 the installation failed. Same problem before and after installing the latest Cintiq drivers for Vista, which installed just fine and has a neat handwriting recognition gizmo that it doesn't have in XP.

I also could only get lightwave in discovery mode. I tried installing the sentinel drivers as administrator and copying the actual license file from the 32-bit Lightwave installation I use in XP and still only discovery. I had never tried the 64 bit version of Lightwave so it might not be a Windows 7 issue.

Hopper
01-31-2009, 01:27 PM
Intuition has made several good points. Well worth listening to. I have been running Linux since the Slackware days (early 90's), and some things simply don't change.

If you are aware of how the kernel works along with it's libraries, file systems, modules, etc... it is a very useful tool and does quite a few things exponentially better than any other operating system, but I would definately not consider any flavor of Linux for your average desktop user.

Linux is great for app servers, security systems (and anti security in some instances :D ), general IT administration, and desktop os's for those who really know what's going on. For others, it will only be an exercise in frustration unless you plan on using it for learning purposes.

Strider_X
01-31-2009, 06:14 PM
Ok its that time of the month to reformat and install new operating system .
Im torn between Linux and Micro$loth usually i have mythbuntu installed in the background but i think im going hardcore and just installing only 1 system mainly Linux any suggestion .
I know i will have software conflictions but linux seems to handle proccesses and network alot better .

Insight would be good

It all depends on what you want. With Linux you have a lot of options, with Windows only if its supported, and especially with 7 beta (witch is not officially supported by any software developer yet) if something doesn't work your SOL.

Personally I have two main computers. One is a Linux firewall / file server, and the other dual boots XP64 and FEDORA 10.

I use XP64 just for LightWave and the Torque Game Engine. To keep windows from becoming infected with something I have installed Firefox with the Adblock Plus extension, installed Spybot SD, avast AV, made the host file read only, and try not to go to bad sites. My install of XP is still running fast and clean for the past five years.

FEDORA 10 is my main desktop choice, its fast and easy to use, just remember to turn off SELinux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SELinux) to save a phew brain cells. SELinux is like Active Directory for hardware and software, a desktop doesn't need it. The problems I have with Fedora comes from not knowing what software works the best, and the infrequent event were I have to forcefully remove an RPM for the system update to complete.

For me windows and linux inflect the same amount of headache, just one give you peace of mind and the other (when its working)lets you work.

You can always dual boot and try them both.

OnlineRender
02-01-2009, 02:25 AM
"intuition "

your insight to linux is not only deep but rather amussing :P you forgort ~# crunchbang linux :P i reckon in short windows is best for 3D and general software , mainly due because everything written for micro$loth .
but if you want fast networking and open source and the ability to change anything including GUI , linux is your program , but the joys of running several OP systems at the moment im effectivley running 4 op system , mythbuntu , crunchbang , win xp and windows 7 ohhh and dont forget win 3.2 but im still installing it of the 17 floppy disks

:P

Intuition
02-01-2009, 06:58 PM
I didn't mean to say "linux = teh suck < windows roxxorsz" or anything like that.

I know that as time passes, linux developers will also just so happen to be 3d application users and when that time comes you'll begin to see one of the distros touting itself as the best linux distro for 3d applications.

When that happens you may see a mass exodus from windows to linux. For now its mainly for those with the patience and time to setup a linux desktop for 3d.

The Suse implementation of Linux surely reduces the linux savvy hypertweaking, as does Sabayon and Ubuntu.

You should see my Grub

It has

Suse 11.0
Sabayon 4
Suse 11 (failsafe)
Fedora 10
Ubuntu
Windows Xp64
Windows Vista

Just bought another terabyte drive. Now where is that windows 7 download :D ?

Hopper
02-01-2009, 07:10 PM
IThe Suse implementation of Linux surely reduces the linux savvy hypertweaking, as does Sabayon and Ubuntu.
I'd have to say my favorites are Fedora and Ubuntu. Sabayon gave me hardware heartburn.

Intuition
02-01-2009, 07:33 PM
I'd have to say my favorites are Fedora and Ubuntu. Sabayon gave me hardware heartburn.

Actually, I've heard thats true for Sabayon. I got really lucky and it runs great. Which is vice versa for the Suse. Its usually a slick install for most people but I have issues all around getting it to finally successfully boot to desktop without crashing. The last little hang up was due to my monitor not being Euro spec since Suse wants to default boot to some strange 65.5hz instead of the usual 60 - 75 base hz here in USA. Finally figured out the VGA=013E code that told it to boot to the LG spec. Which its supposed to test for during install. Oh well.

I also really like Fedora. Not as easy as Ubuntu but an all around stable and useful distro. Its also the only distro that XSi supports officially.

ercaxus
02-01-2009, 08:52 PM
Ubuntu 8.10 here. I don't have any problems with it, and I recommend it to anybody who doesn't need a Windows specific software on a computer.

I also recommend learning vim or(it's usually or) emacs and some command prompt/shell knowledge. Shell is really your friend. Sometimes stuff that easily can be done via using a gui can b e done even easier using the terminal. It is something like learning and using the shortcut keys in LW, instead of using the gui and mouse only.

Tonttu
02-02-2009, 01:35 AM
Also, like I mentioned before, The apps do not install the needed dependencies and files they require in the installer (like every mac and windows app does) and they do not separate them in individual folders (like mac and windows does) so installing one app or updating can destroy an entire set of installs that will make you lament looking at the command line again.

Ubuntu is the easiest one because they have removed many of these redundancies but... Ubuntu is also not very good at running 3d apps like xsi, maya.



Are there other distros moving in the same direction? I last used Linux 10 years ago as a teenager.. a bit too much compiling and configuring vs. actual use :)