PDA

View Full Version : Fprime update



multipass
01-24-2009, 05:16 PM
looks like something might be comming down the pipe

http://www.worley.com/Media/videos/quicktips/flash/FPrimeHVdemo/FPrimeHVdemo.htm

hrgiger
01-24-2009, 05:23 PM
We already knew that once Lightwave 9.6 was released that a Fprime update would be soon to follow. It's good though to see at least one of the planned updates. Real time previewing of volumetrics = awesome. Especially for my current project.

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 05:24 PM
:bowdown: Worley is :king: once again...

I can't think of any program that gives you fast, near realtime previews of volumetrics...wow!!!

Newtek, I sure hope you've really updated HV's in LWX, cause this could steal a BUNCH of VFX artists to your side!

cagey5
01-24-2009, 06:18 PM
I'll review my need for fPrime after the clock stops ticking..

JeffrySG
01-24-2009, 06:37 PM
Has there been any mention of the pricing for FP once it is updated?

hrgiger
01-24-2009, 06:45 PM
No but I'm curious about whether it's even going to be a paid upgrade or not. If you notice before the video it says Interactive HV's with Fprime 3. Well, we're currently on Fprime version 3.20 so it would seem that we would only be paying for an upgrade if it was for Fprime 4.0 and we've gotten no indication that is what it's going to be.
I'm guessing it's going to be a free update. But it's merely a guess.

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 06:52 PM
Well...if anything makes FPrime still relevant (many other programs with IPR's now), THIS does! Once again, Worley pulls of something nobody else can.

Does Houdini or anybody have anything that can give live updates to volumetric renders? Can't wait to see what Newtek has in store for vX

IMI
01-24-2009, 06:52 PM
Hypervoxel previewing would be great, no doubt, but it's not gonna be worth it, IMO, unless it can render all the nodes, particularly the material nodes.

zapper1998
01-24-2009, 07:51 PM
I wonder if G2 and Sasquatch will be updated ????

jeremyhughes77
01-24-2009, 08:09 PM
So cool! Anyone know if rendering in FPrime will include volumetrics now too? assuming yes?

biliousfrog
01-25-2009, 03:44 AM
Nice feature but I'm sure that most people would rather have it work with the new lights, cameras and nodes.

hrgiger
01-25-2009, 06:32 AM
So cool! Anyone know if rendering in FPrime will include volumetrics now too? assuming yes?

You can already render volumetrics in Fprime. You just can't see it in the preview window.

ericsmith
01-25-2009, 09:58 AM
Correction. You can render hypervoxels.

I think he's wondering if you can render volumetric lights.

I suspect the answer is no.

Eric

hrgiger
01-25-2009, 10:21 AM
Correction. You can render hypervoxels.

I think he's wondering if you can render volumetric lights.

I suspect the answer is no.

Eric

Oh, in that case, no. I was assuming he was referring to HV's which was what the video was showing.

I'm glad to see that the new Fprime previewer will worth with volume mode. Wondering if it works with Sprites also. I wouldn't see why it wouldn't.

grimoirecg
01-25-2009, 10:50 AM
Thats' pretty amazing, from the guys who have amazed us many times in the past.
I can't imagine that they can update fprime with realtime volumetrics and not be able to also update it with the new lights, materials etc. That would seem a simple task in comparison.
A lot of you complain about no regular sneak peeks and tasters from Worley, and the way they just go quite for long periods, but I prefer that. I prefer just to have this sort of great stuff sprung on me without expecting it. They obviously prefer to spend their time working on great code instead of on public relations. A lesson Newtek could learn. All this latest nonsense about countdowns to 'something' is just silly.

hrgiger
01-25-2009, 10:57 AM
Thats' pretty amazing, from the guys who have amazed us many times in the past.
I can't imagine that they can update fprime with realtime volumetrics and not be able to also update it with the new lights, materials etc. That would seem a simple task in comparison.
A lot of you complain about no regular sneak peeks and tasters from Worley, and the way they just go quite for long periods, but I prefer that. I prefer just to have this sort of great stuff sprung on me without expecting it. They obviously prefer to spend their time working on great code instead of on public relations. A lesson Newtek could learn. All this latest nonsense about countdowns to 'something' is just silly.

Well, I think there's a difference between Newtek and Worley developers. Newtek has to market their product to get it into new and exisiting hands. Worley only has to go after people who already use Lightwave so half their work is already cut out for them.

grimoirecg
01-25-2009, 11:55 AM
I don't know about that. Worley still have to get lightwave users to buy their product, but a great product sells itself they say..
Are there any figures on what percentage of LW users own FPrime?

RedBull
01-25-2009, 12:03 PM
I don't know about that. Worley still have to get lightwave users to buy their product, but a great product sells itself they say..
Are there any figures on what percentage of LW users own FPrime?

Sweet, It may make Fprime more viable again for myself, the 9.x series has seen it break too much to be overly useful anymore, but if it can get rid of my need for Viper, I'm all for it...

It would be nice to see support for HD Instance, Taiki, Dynamite and most importantly FiberFX.... Realtime Hair/Fur would be sweet.....

IMI
01-25-2009, 12:31 PM
I read at CG Talk that the material nodes require pre-processing, which is why FPrime can't render them. I'm no programmer, but that doesn't sound very promising for future FPrime's to be able to deal with, say dielectric.

Really though, we don't need to be counting on FPrime or wishing that Worley would make it work with everything in LW, we need to make NT know we want LW to have its *own* built-in preview render that works with everything. Modo has a great one, so it's possible. LightWave should too. VIPER sucks and is barely even worth using. Just taking up space.

grimoirecg
01-25-2009, 02:50 PM
I wonder if G2 and Sasquatch will be updated ????

I do have solid information that they will be updating the G2 and sasquatch galleries soon, but whether than means updates to those plugins as well is anyone's guess.

kfinla
01-25-2009, 05:18 PM
Hope so.. I own them all and they have stood still for awhile :)

I unfortunately read something in another thread why Fiber FX may not be do able, besides maybe volume mode in Fprime.. also it would probably kill any potential sales of Sasquatch since Sasquatch currently is a pixel filter and i think definitely means no real time even though I have dreamed of Sasquatch being able to be previewed since Fprime 1.0

Of interest digging thru the worley site where that HV preview that started this thread, I saw some Sasquatch vids from 2008 on using the plugin. Nothing new feature wise, but perhaps there is going to be a re-launch of it.

BlueApple
01-25-2009, 06:17 PM
I did a little digging and saw no mention of a Mac UB version on the horizon. Did anyone spot something that I may have missed?

hunter
01-25-2009, 06:17 PM
Oh, in that case, no. I was assuming he was referring to HV's which was what the video was showing.

I'm glad to see that the new Fprime previewer will worth with volume mode. Wondering if it works with Sprites also. I wouldn't see why it wouldn't.

The very beginning of the clip is sprites isn't it? And then switches to Volume? It would be nice to see it working with all nodes and new lights too though. Maybe with LWX. :D

hrgiger
01-25-2009, 06:37 PM
The very beginning of the clip is sprites isn't it? And then switches to Volume? It would be nice to see it working with all nodes and new lights too though. Maybe with LWX. :D

Yes, you're correct. The only one they don't show in the video is surface. I was thinking they started on surface.

Sensei
01-25-2009, 07:16 PM
It would be nice to see support for HD Instance, Taiki, Dynamite and most importantly FiberFX.... Realtime Hair/Fur would be sweet.....

HD_Instance, Taiki, Dynamite, VoluMedic, TrueHair could work as long as they don't do any pre-processing in Volumetric->Init/NewTime() call-backs. Real-time interactive engine is calling these functions, every item move, every change to scene, so if they're taking f.e. more than 0.1 second, they won't be usable.. Same with nodes.. Whole interactivity will be gone because of slow execution of these call-backs..

Authors of these plug-ins should change code to delay any initialization to Volumetric->Evaluate() function, with proper multi-threading synchronizations..

Init,NewTime,Cleanup are executed in Layout Master handler thread context, Evaluation is executed inside of rendering threads.

Sensei
01-25-2009, 07:53 PM
I read at CG Talk that the material nodes require pre-processing, which is why FPrime can't render them. I'm no programmer, but that doesn't sound very promising for future FPrime's to be able to deal with, say dielectric.

Some material nodes do pre-processing, some other don't. You usually enable optional pre-processing by checking Reflection/Refraction Interpolated control. Although some materials might do other not visible in Render Status window pre-processing in Init/NewTime call-backs, which will slow down their execution and kill whole interactivity of real-time renderer.

The main problem with crashing, materials & Fprime is that NewTek added new fields to LWNodalAccess like randomFloat, which is used in almost all materials. And there was no Fprime update since adding this field in LW v9.5..
Materials don't check whether this field is initialized or not, and jumping cpu to random or 0 memory location.



Really though, we don't need to be counting on FPrime or wishing that Worley would make it work with everything in LW, we need to make NT know we want LW to have its *own* built-in preview render that works with everything. Modo has a great one, so it's possible. LightWave should too. VIPER sucks and is barely even worth using. Just taking up space.

Whether it's 3rd party or built-in interactive renderer doesn't matter if they're using pre-processing, they won't work good with any interactive renderer..

IMI
01-25-2009, 09:41 PM
Whether it's 3rd party or built-in interactive renderer doesn't matter if they're using pre-processing, they won't work good with any interactive renderer..

Thanks for all the information. :)

So in other words, we should forget about FPrime ever being able to render material nodes with pre-processing?
Is this something they could adapt to, or did NT just hose the whole interactive render/preview idea by the way they designed the nodes to render? Couldn't they build an interactive renderer with just a slight delay after a materiel is added or altered?

kfinla
01-25-2009, 10:00 PM
My Initial thought is if your could do an initial render and cache that pre-process. But I guess that information is inaccurate when the camera movies and perhaps if anything light a light moves.

Sensei
01-25-2009, 10:08 PM
So in other words, we should forget about FPrime ever being able to render material nodes with pre-processing?

Yes. But not only Fprime, but also in any interactive real-time renderer, including mine own and any that NewTek would provide built-in, if ever..

Materials that are currently pre-processing in Init()/NewTime(), must be changed so they do processing and interpolation inside of Evaluate()..

Such change was done already in LW v9.x cycle when KD-Tree building routine was moved to ray-tracing routine (which is right move for making bucket renderer- if ray is flying through object, then it's data are initialized, otherwise it would be just a waste of time)..

I will provide mine own nodes and materials in Node Library, without limitation, doing interpolation inside of Evaluate(). So they will be working perfectly with mine renderer.

Sensei
01-25-2009, 10:17 PM
My Initial thought is if your could do an initial render and cache that pre-process. But I guess that information is inaccurate when the camera movies and perhaps if anything light a light moves.

This cache is private for node. Nothing can get and interpret data. That would be even bad design if they would give it, because they would limit themself in way node can be enhanced in future. Actually it would entirely stop any development of such node with opened private data structure.

kfinla
01-25-2009, 10:30 PM
It would be awesome to see LW get a bucket rendering option. It seems like the way to go to tackle heavy scenes. If LW gets native instancing in 10 this could be a a nice side-effect.. being able to render 100 million polys (modo is up to over a trillion with its bucket renderer and instancing at render-time, and about 30 million 'unique' polys in 32 bits builds) Great for displacements also.

Sensei
01-25-2009, 10:42 PM
Bucket rendering is exactly reverse direction than interpolated nodes/interpolated GI/progressive interactive previewing.. ;)

Interpolated cache for one bucket, second one on right and third in bottom, will have completely different caches, not matching each other, so border between bucket regions will appear ugly..

That was/is causing a lot of troubles with Kray and VirtualRender already..

kfinla
01-26-2009, 12:24 PM
I guess i'm thinking of modo then.. it has a realtime previewer, that was scanlin-ish, but now looks more akin to Fprime in the 401 previews.. and is a bucket renderer for final render.

CC Rider
01-28-2009, 09:30 AM
looks like something might be comming down the pipe

http://www.worley.com/Media/videos/quicktips/flash/FPrimeHVdemo/FPrimeHVdemo.htm

The video appears to have been taken down...

:thumbsdow

Matt
01-28-2009, 09:34 AM
I don't think it was meant to be spread about.

Mitja
01-28-2009, 09:52 AM
Update: Entry edited as the video's been yanked off the interwebz. I swear it wasn't my imagination. FPrime doing voxel previews. Well, we'll just have to wait until a formal announcement now (I know, I'm making assumptions. Perhaps about my sanity as well).

The video wasn't public...

JeffrySG
01-28-2009, 02:05 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned before and I didn't really want to start another topic just for this so I'll ask this here....

I really love how the interpolated raydiosity renders give you a quick preview that gets finer and finer during the raydiosity phase of the rendering. Do you think it would be possible for NT to somehow make this a type of interactive previewer? It would be cool if we could change the camera view (or any view) into a preview that is similar to the interpolated raydiosity phase. I know it's not exactly the same but it seems that there would be a way to get this to work. It may never be as good as FP but it would certainly be more useful than Viper and great just for overall lighting and scene setup and texture previewing.

Thoughts???