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butachan
01-23-2009, 02:28 PM
Ok, I will like to start a good thread trying to figure out why this software popularity pales in comparison with other major 3d softwares.

I have studied in Japan, where the software is rather popular and is still almost an universall requirement if you want to work for a game company. Later, when I moved to the US I found myself almost the sole user of the soft and have to adapt to other softwares. I don't want to go into detail but the overall impression that I have is that each soft has its benefits, but lightwave is somehow under-appreciated or not even compared with other softwares.

Personally I think Lightwave has the best 3d modeler program. Perfectly suitable to create solid creations, creations that do not need a deformer to be animated (spaceship, cars, buildings, solid characters, etc). And is very efficient to render and manage large scale scenes, again as long as deformers are not needed in the animation.

Therefore, I will like to know why the lack of popularity, what do you think?
Let's try not to reflect in other soft short-commings but rather in LW short-commings , I bet NewTek will prefer to see those.

Exception
01-23-2009, 02:35 PM
This has been discussed over and over. Almost every week a discussion is formed about this.
I don't think LW is unpopular. It's used in many studios. That said, the shortcoming of Newtek's marketing might have something to do with the apparent 'unpopularity'.

shadowlock
01-23-2009, 02:39 PM
One of the things I noticed from some friends of mine who opted for the "art institute" approach, is that 3D Studio and a few of the other packages would donate their software to the schools for free to get them to teach that for the classes. It's the same thing Apple does with schools, they get the Mac's in the schools to get the students use to using them so they would buy one for at home. So same with the 3D packages you tend to stick with what you learn on.

... that's my 2 cents... :hey:

evolross
01-23-2009, 02:43 PM
I'm a freelancer in Ohio and I work with larger studios in Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati. Each new one I go to, they always ask "What 3D software do you use?" For a moment, I always hesitate, and then say "...Uh, Lightwave." A brief moment passes, and it's always the same response from them: "Oh, you too!" Everyone in Ohio uses it or at least has a license of it somewhere in the studio. I know Ohio isn't LA, but the market here embraces it.

lwanmtr
01-23-2009, 02:46 PM
They dont exactly 'donate' their software..they actually have contracts..contracts which in some cases allows the schools to teach 'only' their software....For instance The Art Institutes are not allowed to teach Lightwave3D due to contracts with Autodesk (and previously Alias). In fact, up till 2001 (I think) they did teach Lightwave3D as well as Video Toaster.

cresshead
01-23-2009, 02:49 PM
last time i saw accurate figures of installed userbase lightwave was second from top...3dsmax being top.

3dsmax
lightwave
maya
cinema
xsi

you are probably talking about 'jobs' available..maya and max are top in that for covering film and games

tv it's usually lightwave top app..


all depends on the market your looking at...3d apps are used everywhere from making web icons to real spaceships....depends where you look and 'who' you talk to.

JBT27
01-23-2009, 02:49 PM
Well, there are and have been many, many threads on this one, and it's probably safe to assume that NT are well aware of the shortcomings, including many that alot of us are not familiar with.

You are asking this at a time when a really good version has just been released, and everyone is now waiting for that groundbreaking announcement, presumably about some of what LWX will have. You must have seen those threads :)

Many more modern 3D apps are more coherent than LW, cleaner to use, have far less redundancy with old tools, or lots of tools doing a similar job, which is something Modeler suffers. LW's CA is notorious for being a bit basic and flaky, and yet many get great results with it.

LW suffers here-say and backstabbing, often from people who never use it - when those same individuals see it in action, they are frequently stunned by what it can do and how fast. But you know what happens with playground rumours and gossip, it doesn't take much before someone is an underdog, and can't do this, won't do that or is just plain lame and not worth bothering with, etc etc.

I think there are only two critical issues here: the first is that NT have the roadmap and business acumen to survive through all this crap, and the good sense to position themselves in the market to outfly the recession. Second, if you like LW and can work with it, just use it and make great images and animations.

If you want to be a studio-player then you will likely have to be proficient with Max and/or Maya - that's the rule - lump it or like it.

I honestly don't think there's alot of point engaging in navel-gazing as to why LW is the underdog - for now it just is. LWX may change that, or more hopefully begin to change that, and importantly NT's marketing may change sufficiently to get people sitting up.

You only need to look at the shows that LW is widely used on to realise it's a long way from the underdog in many areas.

Julian.

AdamAvenali
01-23-2009, 02:52 PM
Everyone in Ohio uses it or at least has a license of it somewhere in the studio.
i'm also in ohio (columbus), but we currently use Maya, though from what i hear the studio started with lightwave 6 and then made the switch. i still personally prefer to use lightwave on my personal work and freelance and do not perceive lightwave as being unpopular or dying.

and i will reiterate this point again next week when one of these threads is started haha

Greenlaw
01-23-2009, 03:52 PM
I know Ohio isn't LA, but the market here embraces it.

That's interesting. I'm in LA and I was just saying to a friend the other day that a lot of LightWavers I've worked with over the years come from Ohio. I've always wondered what connection was between LightWave and Ohio. :)

Greenlaw

jaxtone
01-23-2009, 04:29 PM
I always wondered why Drew Carey shouted OHIO at the end of each episode of his sitcom! Now I know better! It must be because the character Mimi Bobeck, "not Daffy the Duck", actually is a very large mesh designed in Lightwave itself! Crazy Conspiracies or just a celebration to the city and the companies that truly understands the value of Lightwave!

Wow! Sheīs in color as well!
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=NDsBSKcCjAk&feature=related

Ohios most unemployed 3D-animators:
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=FxYuBriNT7U&feature=related

Daffy the duckīs going wild:
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=KbYbc2IVqVg&feature=related

Pilot of Cleveland Rocks in the show!
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=MmSW-OM8h8c

Final version:
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=R7X_mRN2mRA

Cleveland Rocks!
Ian Hunter from Mott the Hoople
http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZOVJ40Q6w

Cleveland rocks, cleveland rocks, cleveland rocks, cleveland rocks

Ohio

:dance:

hrgiger
01-23-2009, 04:42 PM
Also in Columbus, Ohio.



That's all I got.

jasonwestmas
01-23-2009, 05:07 PM
It's not unpopular it's just not used for character stuff as much.

SplineGod
01-23-2009, 05:39 PM
I think overall its not marketed, demonstrated, promoted etc. as well as other 3d apps. in general. There seems to be a heavy reliance on end users to do the promoting.

Titus
01-23-2009, 07:28 PM
On my experience it's conceived as an old software, very close to the Amiga days. The other programs had to be reinvented, Alias-Power Animator ->Maya, Softimage->XSI, 3D Studio -> Max. This and marketing is on my opinion why LW is not perceived as cool as the others.

Castius
01-23-2009, 09:49 PM
Certainly a lot of studios base there main app on the most artist they can hire for it. So the apps they learn in school does drive that a great deal.
Maya has this advantage as well as Max. Max also has a long standing background for game developers as being the easiest to develope for games engines. Character studio was a big reason for this. Motion capture was never easy to feed into an app until Max and CS.

And finally movies are what is generally popular. You are always talking about the latest and greatest effect in a movie. These usually come from movie productions that spend a lot of money and time. Pn custom pipelines. These productions usually need software that is capable of being controlled at a very low level. Maya and XSI are the apps that generally allow this the most.

But all in all popularity is usally just that. There are tons of other areas that are not popular to talk about. So there can be a great deal of users out there that you never hear about.


Some day LW might be used on movies and it will be popular. Weather it's used the most will still be unknown. I'm just glad there are still enough people using LW to keep it progressing forward. And enough people on these forums to have some fun talking about it.

Mr Rid
01-23-2009, 11:52 PM
Maya is like a formula racer that makes all the headlines, and requires a team to make it zoom.
68617

XSI is like a Porsche.
68618

Max, a Corvette.
68619

LW is more like a Camaro Z28. Affordable speed and handling, a solid street racer, but just wont get you dates with supermodels...
68616

Dexter2999
01-24-2009, 12:14 AM
On my experience it's conceived as an old software, very close to the Amiga days. The other programs had to be reinvented, Alias-Power Animator ->Maya, Softimage->XSI, 3D Studio -> Max. This and marketing is on my opinion why LW is not perceived as cool as the others.


So with LW10 remarket and re-brand as PHOTON? particle and wave, all energy.
Revamp it all you want. Unify it. Give it Aqua style buttons. New logo. I'm really likingthe idea in another thread of partnering with 3rd party like Janus and 3D Coat to make LW skinned "Official" plug ins. (Just make sure I can click "classic" somewhere to keep it the way I like it.)

Wickster
01-24-2009, 12:32 AM
I think it's because when a new super sci-fi/fantasy specialFX heavy film comes out a bigger company claims it as "made with xxxx software" even though some of it's parts may be done or rendered in LW.

SplineGod
01-24-2009, 01:55 AM
LW is more like a Camaro Z28. Affordable speed and handling, a solid street racer, but just wont get you dates with supermodels...


Which is fine since they tend to be quite high maintainance. :)

danielkaiser
01-24-2009, 02:33 AM
yawn.

A Mejias
01-24-2009, 04:34 AM
Which is fine since they tend to be quite high maintainance. :)

The Camaro or the dates? :)

biliousfrog
01-24-2009, 06:59 AM
It's already been mentioned a million times, it's no different to people asking which app is best or 'Mac or PC?'...Lightwave is and always has been very popular but, just like anything else, kids look at price first and assume that more expensive means better. That's why everyone assumes that you use Max because that's the only one they've heard of, closely followed by Maya. It's also down to marketing and hype, getting people hooked at an early stage and manipulating figures.

That's why people think that anyone working in a creative industry uses a Mac, all surfers wear Quicksilver, skateboarders wear Airwalk, all MP3 players are iPods, all jeans are Levi's, all animated films are by Pixar, all cell phones are Nokia's...and the only people that could ever save the planet from an alien invasion are American. ;)

erikals
01-24-2009, 07:05 AM
The Camaro or the dates? :)

:D

heh, this reminds me of something but better keep my mouth shut... :O

erikals
01-24-2009, 07:10 AM
this thread answeres some of the questions,
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88723

with new CA tools i think we'll soon see some cool stuff in semi big movie productions from Lightwave.

for the big ones however Lightwave lack a couple of things
(some of them mentioned in the above thread)

archijam
01-24-2009, 07:24 AM
Which is fine since they tend to be quite high maintainance. :)

Are you by any chance referring to Autodesk maintenance fees ;) ?


I prefer to think that LW is the kid in the playground with the 20 sided dice in his pocket...

I agree that modeler rocks, I'm hoping with the launch of LWX there is both a cosmetic and a functional step that enable people to take a fresh look.

Why the LW site does not show more of the amazing japanese work, I'll never know. I have started threads on this exact topic in the past ..

4dartist
01-24-2009, 09:14 AM
They dont exactly 'donate' their software..they actually have contracts..contracts which in some cases allows the schools to teach 'only' their software....For instance The Art Institutes are not allowed to teach Lightwave3D due to contracts with Autodesk (and previously Alias). In fact, up till 2001 (I think) they did teach Lightwave3D as well as Video Toaster.

Not the Illinois Institue of Art in Chicago, which is an AI school. Just 3ds Max in 1999, Maya from 2000 to 2001. (I couldn't speak for much longer before that)

Larry_g1s
01-24-2009, 10:04 AM
I think overall its not marketed, demonstrated, promoted etc. as well as other 3d apps. in general. There seems to be a heavy reliance on end users to do the promoting.I think I'd have to agree with you there. LightWave is a great application, and at a price that is very tough to beat. It needs to be marketed better. Just putting out ads isn't marketing better. They have to really play on their strengths. I'm hopping that with the next release they'll have a new LW, and the ability to start fresh. That little counter generating buzz is a good start. ;)

But I also agree that it's not an unpopular 3D app. Just as Larry said...not as marketed as the others.

jasonwestmas
01-24-2009, 12:48 PM
Max, a Corvette? Now, how does that compare? It's a miracle that thing can work with modern features,they must've really gutted that thing out.

I would of thought of Max as more like a Delorian but maybe without the stainless steel monstrosity exterior. It works in most areas, which is nice but does it really sing like a corvette!?

Dexter2999
01-24-2009, 01:52 PM
Lightwave is a Z28, but I hope it will turn into a Tesla.

Mr Rid
01-24-2009, 03:33 PM
Which is fine since they tend to be quite high maintainance. :)

Sour grapes: to deny desire for something one cannot attain. ;)

jeremyhughes77
01-24-2009, 04:34 PM
I'm a freelancer in Ohio and I work with larger studios in Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati. Each new one I go to, they always ask "What 3D software do you use?" For a moment, I always hesitate, and then say "...Uh, Lightwave." A brief moment passes, and it's always the same response from them: "Oh, you too!" Everyone in Ohio uses it or at least has a license of it somewhere in the studio. I know Ohio isn't LA, but the market here embraces it.

There's more and more switching over to C4D or Maya out of the mograph studios around here. Lw does suffer from not having use of modeler tools to be able to animate with compared to the ease of those other packages and a couple other things but I wont complain. LW gives you everything at the best price for performance out there and geez, I bought back into LW at 9.0, loved where it had come and I'm still getting free upgrades! It's also so easy to use and master all areas as opposed to a few. I think the guys at Precinct 13 are still using it too - that's actually what made me take another look at it again in the first place.

lwanmtr
01-24-2009, 04:50 PM
and the only people that could ever save the planet from an alien invasion are American.

The brits would be too busy having tea...mexicans would be trying to find work on the alien homeworld...canadians...well..they're canadian, what else can be said...france wouldnt believe its happening...china would try to convert them to communism...

the americans, however, wouldn't think about it at all...they'd just get in their little planes and start shooting...although i'd stay out of their way as they generally just mash down on the trigger while flying in random circles...yup, the americans would win the day..100% alien casualties..and only 50% terran casualties..the aliens never fired a shot..LOL

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 05:03 PM
Max, a Corvette? Now, how does that compare? It's a miracle that thing can work with modern features,they must've really gutted that thing out.

I would of thought of Max as more like a Delorian but maybe without the stainless steel monstrosity exterior. It works in most areas, which is nice but does it really sing like a corvette!?Yeah, they gutted it...and added the Havoc Dynamics engine in Reactor (with softbody, hardbody, water, spring, vehicle, Ragdoll, etc collections)...an extremely robust nodal particle engine (Particle Flow)...Character Studio (which also has a nice Crowd behavioral system):
http://download.autodesk.com/media/3dsmax/biped_max8_380k.mov

, and now C.A.T:

http://www.graeck.de/showroom/CAT_Tutorial_CATMotion_Intro.wmv
http://www.graeck.de/showroom/CAT_Tutorial_CATMotion_Layers.wmv
http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/tutorials/tutorial_index/cat_overview_part_1_rigging_with_cat/
http://rapidshare.com/files/124300432/Basic_Animation.wmv.html

Viewport enhancements:
http://download.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/siggraph2007/demos/Review.mp4
http://download.autodesk.com/media/3dsmax/directx_max8_380k.mov
http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/blogs_ken/blog_detail/au_tech_demo_viewports/

It's mesh-editing has been overhauled (now on par with XSI's GigaPoly core) and overall viewport speed is much faster...something we are still waiting on for LW:
http://download.autodesk.com/global/3dsmax/featureVideos/max9_poly_speed_large.mov

And it's biggest strength remains its 3rd Party support. So yeah, it's really a Dinosaur...ppfffttt :tsktsk:
No sense in bashing something you know little about.

lwanmtr
01-24-2009, 05:07 PM
Oh hell no...you didnt just compare Max to a Delorean..thats just wrong...

I would see Max as an SUV..bloated, gas guzzler..lots of features, not great performance

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 05:16 PM
Oh hell no...you didnt just compare Max to a Delorean..thats just wrong...

I would see Max as an SUV..bloated, gas guzzler..lots of features, not great performanceNot great performance? Again...someone speaking from precious little knowledge to make a dogmatic statement.
Performance is the one thing the 3ds Max dev's have focused on for the past 3 versions. It runs circles around LW in just about every category except perhaps the price/benefit ratio.
So, where's the zippy mesh-editing performance in modeler...and instances?
Animating simple modeling functions...super fast in LW, huh? How about those skinning deformers or vertice/point weighting using envelopes or painting/blending weights in Layout?

lwanmtr
01-24-2009, 05:21 PM
Little knowledge? I love it when people try to insult others..

Ive used Max...and yeah, it's bloated

Try rendering full tracing with realistic GI in Max....LW will be done long before Max, MR...Gimme a break

jasonwestmas
01-24-2009, 05:28 PM
Not great performance? Again...someone speaking from precious little knowledge to make a dogmatic statement.
Performance is the one thing the 3ds Max dev's have focused on for the past 3 versions. It runs circles around LW in just about every category except perhaps the price/benefit ratio.
So, where's the zippy mesh-editing performance in modeler...and instances?
Animating simple modeling functions...super fast in LW, huh? How about those skinning deformers or vertice/point weighting using envelopes or painting/blending weights in Layout?

hehe you're really weird. If I wanted to bash max I would have tried much harder.

dvfx
01-24-2009, 05:29 PM
.


...and the only people that could ever save the planet from an alien invasion are american. ;)

...duh!!! :D

.

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 05:30 PM
Little knowledge? I love it when people try to insult others..

Ive used Max...and yeah, it's bloated

Try rendering full tracing with realistic GI in Max....LW will be done long before Max, MR...Gimme a breakWhat, it's bloated because it has features you don't yet have in LW?

That's right...give it a break.

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 05:32 PM
hehe you're really weird. If I wanted to bash max I would have tried much harder.Weird is someone giving blanket statements with no facts to back it up.
Statements like..." Max really sux...cause, cause....uh...huuuuuhhh it has icons and stuff....and uuuhhh, it lacks performance and stuff :rolleyes:

lwanmtr
01-24-2009, 05:33 PM
If you love Max so much, dump LW...

Max has features that LW doest, yeah..but performance? Come on...you give it a break.

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 05:35 PM
If you love Max so much, dump LW...

Max has features that LW doest, yeah..but performance? Come on...you give it a break.I can use both without trashing other software I know little about.
Every software has some features that are stronger than others, but that doesn't call for bashing others out of fanboy ignorance

lwanmtr
01-24-2009, 05:43 PM
ignorance? Do I know everything? Yes, I just cant remember it all...LOL. Fact is you have no idea of what I know...I however can assertain that you know less than you want others to believe. That being said....

I did not bash Max..I simply said that it doesnt perform as well...if you see that as bashing, then you are too wrapped up in your little world and should get out more..
Of course, my guess is that you see any statement that doesnt praise it as being bashing..

When it comes to rendering..Lightwave just outperforms it....you cannot interchange features for performance, they are different aspects. Deal with it.

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 06:34 PM
ignorance? Do I know everything? Yes, I just cant remember it all...LOL. Fact is you have no idea of what I know...I however can assertain that you know less than you want others to believe. That being said....

I did not bash Max..I simply said that it doesnt perform as well...if you see that as bashing, then you are too wrapped up in your little world and should get out more..
Of course, my guess is that you see any statement that doesnt praise it as being bashing..

When it comes to rendering..Lightwave just outperforms it....you cannot interchange features for performance, they are different aspects. Deal with it.LW's render is one of it's assets. I don't want to badmouth it for the sake of trying to win an argument. Just because YOU FEEL it is faster than a comparable render test in MR, doesn't mean Max on the whole is "Bloated and Slow." Those kinds of statements tell someone who actually uses Max, that you really don't know what the h:devil:ll you are talking about...simple as that.

I'm not one to try and ignorantly defend Mental Ray, although it has received some major speed enhancements in the past few versions.
http://download.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/2009demos/07%20Iterative%20Rendering.mov
http://download.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/2009demos/08%20Mental%20Ray.mov
http://download.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/2009demos/09%20Production%20Shaders.mov
http://download.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/siggraph2007/demos/MR%20Features.mp4

I don't use Mental Ray in Max cause it operates as a standalone instead of an integrated plugin renderer such as VRay, Brazil, or finalRender Stage 1 R2 (which is what I use).
http://www.finalrender.com/products/products.php?UD=10-7888-35-788&PID=36
http://cebasusa.com/m_o_v_e_e/Trees/trees.html
http://cebasusa.com/m_o_v_e_e/R2_QS/R2_QS.html
http://www.cebasusa.com/m_o_v_e_e/finalRenderArch/finalRenderArch.html
http://www.cebasusa.com/m_o_v_e_e/InChurch2/InChurch2.html

FR distributed bucket rendering...letting me gang multiple machines onto a single-frame preview render or final output. (you don't have that with LW natively)
http://cebasusa.com/m_o_v_e_e/finalRenderStage-1P3/finalRenderStage-1P3.html

Because Mental Ray operates in Max as a standalone, it is incompatible with plugins that generally don't involve geometry...like common volumetric plugins such as Afterburn, FumeFX, Dreamscape, etc. Even Max's Hair and Fur Module...you have to use a slow work around.
FinalRender and VRay work as fully intergrated plugin renderers and are therefore much more compatible.

All of this is to point out that your statements are simply unfounded and have no basis of fact. Again, LW has some strengths and it also has many glaring weaknesses that the dev team is aware of. But to call it slow based on one of those areas of the program, isn't accurate.

You're comparing LW's renderer to Mental Ray, and I doubt you've done a comparison tests between LW 9.x and Mental Ray in Max 2009...that would make your statements a bit more informed.

lwanmtr
01-24-2009, 06:47 PM
Those who yell the loudest often have the least to say.

Hmm....never mentioned any 3rd party renderers...amazing how you need to start bringing those in to defend Max. They are good renderers...but out of the box, Lightwave outperforms Max...Stick to the subject.

I know of Max's strengths..and weaknesses. It is grand, though, to see how emotional you can get because of one statement. LOL. Kickey, you'd think that someone had just killed your cat. I guess there are just some folks who cannot understand when someone disagrees with them.

Max = SUV not Delorean LOL

AbnRanger
01-24-2009, 07:11 PM
Those who yell the loudest often have the least to say.

Hmm....never mentioned any 3rd party renderers...amazing how you need to start bringing those in to defend Max. They are good renderers...but out of the box, Lightwave outperforms Max...Stick to the subject.

I know of Max's strengths..and weaknesses. It is grand, though, to see how emotional you can get because of one statement. LOL. Kickey, you'd think that someone had just killed your cat. I guess there are just some folks who cannot understand when someone disagrees with them.

Max = SUV not Delorean LOLThe reverse is actually the case. You make fallacious, un-informed statements. I'm just calling a spade a spade.
You DON'T, in fact, know what the hell you're talking about. Have you made an objective comparison render on both new version? If not...well, your words do their own dirty work.

To say that LW is on a even level with MR is probably more accurate. But to dogmatically claim it's much faster is just un-informed juvenile fan-boy talk.
I made mention that I use a 3rd Party renderer due to compatibility issues, and honestly mentioned that I wouldn't, like you try to make a blind comparison statement. And even if an objective, honest comparison test was done, with LW coming out slightly ahead...so what?
That means Max, as a program is slow and bloated? No, it doesn't.

You made silly statements, and I pointed them out.

lwanmtr
01-24-2009, 07:30 PM
Dogmatic must be the only word you kow...lol

Why is it that LW's render is often used by studio over MR? Could it be that it is faster? Meaning..it outperforms. Deal with it.

Bloated? Yup...3DMax is, and has always been, a collection of plugins tied to an interface. I have used it..and yes, I've use 2009. It may be more stable than Max9, but it is still the same app. Of course, renderwise...it's still slow.
Maya outperforms Max...which explains why alot of campanies are moving from max to maya...

I love how all your arguments end with trying to call people ignorant, or fanboy...those are rather immature methods to try and win a debate..which, of course only move to show what your level really is. I would be more inclined to pay more attention to your posts if you didnt try to be insulting...but I guess if thats all you have. If you want to debate in a mature manner, I'm open..but if you're gonna open with trying to insult someone then you are obviously not worth it. Just food for thought.

Enjoy :)

dgrigo
01-24-2009, 09:23 PM
Strange i find ... half of the 3dsmax links if not all the site lol , is naked before our eyes in a thread that we talk about LW popularity...
Damn Imperials !

Red_Oddity
01-25-2009, 06:23 AM
Maya is like a formula racer that makes all the headlines, and requires a team to make it zoom.
68617

XSI is like a Porsche.
68618

Max, a Corvette.
68619

LW is more like a Camaro Z28. Affordable speed and handling, a solid street racer, but just wont get you dates with supermodels...
68616

Too bad our Maya Formula 1 car often looks like this when we near deadlines

jaxtone
01-25-2009, 06:38 AM
Hahaha... this was great fun to read!

I donīt know if any 3D-guys can afford them size zero plastic chicks with plastic boobs that only works for hot cash! But I for sure know we all need good friends! If itīs up to me the Camaro guys looks like common people to hang out with. (Saying this with full awareness of that I hate all people on this planet!) :D

But I still appreciate the humour included in your fantastic benchmarking project! :thumbsup:



Maya is like a formula racer that makes all the headlines, and requires a team to make it zoom.
68617

XSI is like a Porsche.
68618

Max, a Corvette.
68619

LW is more like a Camaro Z28. Affordable speed and handling, a solid street racer, but just wont get you dates with supermodels...
68616

jaxtone
01-25-2009, 06:44 AM
Hey Castius! You just gave me an idea of how to save some cash and get rid of some trash at the same time!

Next time I go to a cinema I will be prepared by bringing my old Lightwave original paper box and fill it with home made pop corns!

If you think about it, this is also a way to make LW popular at movies!

:D


Some day LW might be used on movies and it will be popular. Weather it's used the most will still be unknown. I'm just glad there are still enough people using LW to keep it progressing forward. And enough people on these forums to have some fun talking about it.

cresshead
01-25-2009, 06:54 AM
wow such passionate slamming of 3dsmax and heroic defence of 3dsmax in a lightwave forum!..entertaining for sure.

just to note 3dsmax was "DESIGNED" to be a plugin container of an app.

if you don't like 3dsmax.don't use it...i like it..so i use it...it's easy to work with much like lightwave is on many fronts but has 'different' strengths to that of lightwave which is why i added lightwave back at lw7.0

i added lightwave for it's modeler and good renderer but NOT for rigging and animating characters...that'snot really changed yet since lw7.0 upto lw9.6...i tried autoriggers in lightwave such as td4 and meastro but they still don't compare anywhere near character studio i got with my initial purchase of 3dsmax 2.5 and character studio back in 1999..i'm currently using max 2008..i have 2009 but havn't installed it yet as 2008 is just fine for me currently but i'll sort out 2009 when i need to play with softimage c.a.t which is now free for me...as well as puppetshop.

lightwave's modeling has stood pretty still since lightwave 7.5 whereas modeling in 3dsmax has come along a long way to be as good or better than lightwave on many fronts..so much i don't model much inlightwave thesedays.

lightwave has some great strengths and i'm really excited for just WHAT lightwave X will be but i do not expect huge character animation tools..i'm really hoping lightwave x is a single app so that finally we start to see the basics like instances, 1 footprint for models rather then the dual ram footprint of modeler/layout

if we get that then we're moving forward and the proper dev to make lightwave rub shoulders in tech with cinema, xsi, max and maya.

currently>
lightwave is a great renderer for me and a capable modeler


max is a great allrounder not brilliant at evereything but capable of anything without a white coat and heavy plasctic national health glasses [maya , houdini and xsi]


i'm hoping lightwave X has some goodies to temp me to update my 2 lightwave seats.

erikals
01-25-2009, 11:08 AM
Hey Castius! You just gave me an idea of how to save some cash and get rid of some trash at the same time!

Next time I go to a cinema I will be prepared by bringing my old Lightwave original paper box and fill it with home made pop corns!

If you think about it, this is also a way to make LW popular at movies!

:D

lol :D haha, i might just do that... hehe :D

vncnt
01-25-2009, 11:32 AM
Lightwave is great for modeling and rendering.
But if you want to make money in animation you need slightly more.

Take a look at User Profiles.
Lots of cars, planes, explosions but no Oscar winning character animation with LW.

Why? There is no integrated 3D-paint system, no 3D-sculpting, no muscles - even in Stuart Little (how many years ago?) they used muscles, better tools for pose checking (silhouette?) or X-sheets (standards used for many years), scene planning tools (markers, dialog text, action planning, effects planning, etc).

Making a movie is about being the first one to create realistic dino's, furry mice, interesting stories (Pixar). That is the reason why some software becomes HOT and the rest NOT.

For me, Lightwave was the first affordable 3D-animation tool and it's still a remarkable piece of software.

Hopefully it will grow with me.

erikals
01-25-2009, 12:52 PM
i think 3d paint can be skipped, as we all usually use other programs for that.
other than that, i agree.

some are into construction history, i say that is hyped, as i've seen lots of maya users not using it, however it is a nice thing to have.

but as far as other requests,...

work more on CA, add muscles, basic fluids, fix CC, polish HairFX, add decent dynamics, add modeling through camera view, upgrade IKbooster -fix footslip to make it useable and faster selection.

i also recommend taking notes of what lightwavers working in big studios requests.

pooby
01-25-2009, 01:01 PM
Making a movie is about being the first one to create realistic dino's, furry mice, interesting stories (Pixar). That is the reason why some software becomes HOT and the rest NOT.


I keep re-reading this quote to myself for fun. It has a lot of comic elements.

bobakabob
01-25-2009, 01:54 PM
I keep re-reading this quote to myself for fun. It has a lot of comic elements.

Imprinted on the Internet forever.

Stooch
01-25-2009, 02:11 PM
Dogmatic must be the only word you kow...lol

Why is it that LW's render is often used by studio over MR? Could it be that it is faster? Meaning..it outperforms. Deal with it.

actually its not really faster. its a HELL of a lot cheaper. but to say its "faster" as a blanket statement is highly ignorant. for example MR GI is BY FAR superior to LW (when used with animation and effects scenes). the caustics are superior. in general it seems to do alot of things quite fast, it just requires understanding of how to do things the "mental way". It has its positives and its negatives just like any other render engine. What seems to hurt MR alot is a lack of understanding by its users, its shoddy integration with the host apps and certain features like the motion blur (its useable just requires alot of finesse and breaking out things into passes).

speaking of breaking things out into passes. while not being a mental ray specific feature (its more of the host app feature) i count the LACK of LW pass workflow as a serious limitation.

also i agree with abn that IT SOUNDS like you dont know what you are talking about (maybe you do, but you really should think before you click post, why cant you ever back up your claims with relevant details? ) as i stated in the beta section argument. I see its a recurring theme with you ;) you gotta check yourself when multiple people are telling you the same thing you know...

pooby
01-25-2009, 02:25 PM
for example MR GI is BY FAR superior to LW (when used with animation and effects scenes)

that's interesting.. I know a big studio that couldnt get MR's GI to work with deformation animation at all, as we couldn't at ours either.
Is there some place we can learn the secrets?

hrgiger
01-25-2009, 02:33 PM
Ok pooby, I need to ask. What is your avatar and what is it saying? Looks like Old Bowie or something.

jasonwestmas
01-25-2009, 02:39 PM
Lightwave is great for modeling and rendering.
But if you want to make money in animation you need slightly more.

Take a look at User Profiles.
Lots of cars, planes, explosions but no Oscar winning character animation with LW.

Why? There is no integrated 3D-paint system, no 3D-sculpting, no muscles - even in Stuart Little (how many years ago?) they used muscles, better tools for pose checking (silhouette?) or X-sheets (standards used for many years), scene planning tools (markers, dialog text, action planning, effects planning, etc).

Making a movie is about being the first one to create realistic dino's, furry mice, interesting stories (Pixar). That is the reason why some software becomes HOT and the rest NOT.

For me, Lightwave was the first affordable 3D-animation tool and it's still a remarkable piece of software.

Hopefully it will grow with me.

This is very true in a nauseating kind of way. It's called by myself as the "Movie Star" or "Quarter-Back" Syndrome and it has everything to do with CG characters in the animation industry. It creates a certain nausea in me because it is so pretentious and slightly disrespectful to the other 80% of a production or team effort. Lightwave is kind of excluded from this part of CG for various reasons and it does hurt NT's popularity because media and and commercial campaigns use characters to sell technological tools, hardware and software.

However, I think NT's move to promote their super cheap/ high quality rendering ability was a good decision, it is the backbone of lightwave. I think of the CA tools the superficial face that will bring life back to the commercial end of lightwave and will help build recognition. If not, I fear that Lw will just be that useful skeleton in the back corner of all the studios.

erikals
01-25-2009, 02:44 PM
that's interesting.. I know a big studio that couldnt get MR's GI to work with deformation animation at all, as we couldn't at ours either.
Is there some place we can learn the secrets?

yup, from another thread here i read this too, haven't done too much anim rendering myself, so can't say.

also heard the motion blur in LW was pretty slick compared.

erikals
01-25-2009, 02:45 PM
yup, gotta be a Bowie grab,... my eyes hurt

kfinla
01-25-2009, 05:08 PM
Lightwave is great for modeling and rendering.
But if you want to make money in animation you need slightly more.

Take a look at User Profiles.
Lots of cars, planes, explosions but no Oscar winning character animation with LW.

Why? There is no integrated 3D-paint system, no 3D-sculpting, no muscles - even in Stuart Little (how many years ago?) they used muscles, better tools for pose checking (silhouette?) or X-sheets (standards used for many years), scene planning tools (markers, dialog text, action planning, effects planning, etc).

Making a movie is about being the first one to create realistic dino's, furry mice, interesting stories (Pixar). That is the reason why some software becomes HOT and the rest NOT.

For me, Lightwave was the first affordable 3D-animation tool and it's still a remarkable piece of software.

Hopefully it will grow with me.

I'm really on the fence about LW adding 3d paint, or sculpting. Nice to have but as someone that makes characters it is not a priority for me in LW. I own many apps, and there are many options that i'm 99% sure would have a better implementation. I own modo, it has 3d paint and sculpting.. yet I choose to use Zbrush and Bodypaint for those tasks cuz they are best of breed. I choose to use UV layout for UV's.

I would personally Like to see Lightwave get native instancing and revamp its Particle/dynamics. And keep improving the CA tools because it has always been this Achilles heel for people to think or say you cant do that in LW.

Getting LW into the schools would be a big help as far as a marketing move. Maya has benefited tons by this, by having an army or people that know maya complemented by the idea you need to know maya to get a job.

erikals
01-25-2009, 05:17 PM
absolutely, giving away cheap LW for schools is super marketing.
that's what they did and do with maya.

lwanmtr
01-25-2009, 05:22 PM
Problem is that AD contracts alot of the schools to only teach their products...if the schools violate that, they lose the license to maya/max

erikals
01-25-2009, 05:35 PM
yep, trick is to contact both those schools and other schools, not to mention talk to the teachers and schools teaching these classes.

lwanmtr
01-25-2009, 05:40 PM
Well, when I was at AIS, my director had toyed with the idea of me running an off hours program that used LW..but it couldnt be an official thing. The only problem was figuring out how to get LW in one of the labs...hehe

erikals
01-25-2009, 05:44 PM
btw, why aren't there any links on the NT page to places around the world teaching LW?
or is there?
it should be.

erikals
01-25-2009, 05:46 PM
also NT does have a 30 day trial now, so that's cool, hope they continue that, make LW9.6 trials and so on,...

erikals
01-25-2009, 09:04 PM
...work more on CA, add muscles, basic fluids, fix CC, polish HairFX, add decent dynamics, add modeling through camera view, upgrade IKbooster -fix footslip to make it useable and faster selection.

forgot to add animation layers,...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t7sXwvsVGs

(DPont's MDD plugin can do some of it, but is a bit slow as far as i can see)

Mr Rid
01-26-2009, 12:03 AM
... here on lightwave forum there are 90 000 members, on autodesk-maya forum only 10 000... I can imagine why all the maya-users dont register there, the biggest part of them are using only warez stuff...

With 5 times the jobs available, they are probably all too busy working.

Mr Rid
01-26-2009, 12:17 AM
Hahaha... this was great fun to read!

I donīt know if any 3D-guys can afford them size zero plastic chicks with plastic boobs that only works for hot cash! But I for sure know we all need good friends! If itīs up to me the Camaro guys looks like common people to hang out with. (Saying this with full awareness of that I hate all people on this planet!) :D

But I still appreciate the humour included in your fantastic benchmarking project! :thumbsup:

Even Daz & Carrera attract more girls...
68692

Dexter2999
01-26-2009, 01:53 AM
Even Daz & Carrera attract more girls...

Gentlemen, I think the group may have stumbled upon the answer to turning LW marketing on it's ear!

Yes give to schools....High Schools. Get to the students before they get into college and get access to the Autodesk products.

And send out a small army of hot girls to demo it. Think of it...Booth Babes for High Schools. It serves two fold. One it will grab the boys attention in a way nothing else will. AND it will show girls that you can do 3D and not be a nerd (even though we know that is the exception not the rule).

pooby
01-26-2009, 03:23 AM
Ok pooby, I need to ask. What is your avatar and what is it saying? Looks like Old Bowie or something.


It's a CG test using a face rig I made when I first got XSI.. I used Bowie because I wanted to do someone singing and he has unique looks. (and I'm a fan)

and he's saying 'Look at those cavemen' from 'Life on Mars'

hrgiger
01-26-2009, 04:03 AM
Nice, I wasn't even sure it was CG.

archijam
01-26-2009, 06:18 AM
this could be a reason, but to be honest here in germany I know many freelancers and the most maya-user working as freelancer at home are warez-user. This dont happens with Lightwave Freelancer, because I see them here in Forum and in OpenBetaForum :-)

Same for the MAX, C4D users I know ..

.. many freelancers just don't buy software that's expensive :thumbsdow

And once you've made that step, why not use the most expensive of everything?

grimoirecg
01-26-2009, 07:06 AM
Ha, you guys started the thread by chastising the OP for creating this topic, because it has apparently been discussed to death already.
Looks like you're all not quite done with it yet though...

jasonwestmas
01-26-2009, 07:10 AM
Ha, you guys started the thread by chastising the OP for creating this topic, because it has apparently been discussed to death already.
Looks like you're all not quite done with it yet though...


I only saw one post chastising. I haven't talked much in the community forums so I'm glad to answer questions the best way I know how.

butachan
01-26-2009, 01:53 PM
Well, after so many post, I think I should answer something.
I am the guy who started all this for those of you who probably don't know by now, hehe.
Of the answers, I understand there are three main things people see in the software as a minus:
1.- Lack of animated keys in modeler tools.
2.- A difficult to conprehend rigging system in comparison with other systems. (I don't know about that to be honest, my work has 3ds Max and its native tools are pretty lame if you don't want to do the typical biped or quadruped).
3.- Unatractive to the female sex, or something like that. (that part of the post about cars and women I didn't quite understand).

There where some other critics that reflected on the orientation of others software like maya towards character oriented animation while Lightwave is not friendly in that field.
But I don't necessarily feel that is a minus, but just a different orientation. Just as there will be people in need to animate a puppy, there will be people needing to recreat a huge battleship exploding.
Also there were severall of you who mentioned the marketting approach that maya uses in schools, but I am perfectly aware that those kind of marketting campaigns are more difficult, if not imposible, to reverse for a company like NewTek. However, it should be a warning sign for markets yet to be introduced to that monopolic technique, like Asia (including the second biggest producer of advertising in the world Japan), and South America (Principally Brazil, and Argentina which tend to export the standards for the region).

I think I agree with one of the last post that mentioned that a more powerfull particle system, and I will add physics simulation, will enhance lightwave dramatically. Because the soft already is usefull for recreating realistic 3d object so a more flexible simulation system will make it attractive for studios.

erikals
01-26-2009, 03:58 PM
they need to make one part of the program kick*** so that ppl in the industry cannot be without it.

(oh, forgot to mention maya has MEL, lightwave needs something in that street to cope)

Mr Rid
01-27-2009, 03:43 PM
...
3.- Unatractive to the female sex, or something like that. (that part of the post about cars and women I didn't quite understand).

A half joke about class distinction. The more successful tools are more capable, complex, higher output, and require more resources to acquire and maintain. Maya is equipped to win the big races, but there is bigger opportunity so it is irrelevant.

Lightwave's better equipped to tear *** around the backstreets. 'Cheaper, simpler' generally means a different class of opportunity. It aint politics... you just dont get sumthin for nuthin. LW can do a lot of things, but I think it was Jin that once typed something about, 'yeah, you can hack down a tree with a steak knife, but that doesnt mean it's the best way to go about it.'

Price comparison ought to be irrelevant. An individual can learn for free with a PLE or crack, then either generate enough income to pay for the app and write it off as an expense, or the company they go to work for owns it.

And contrary to another popular myth, LW does not necessarily make things happen faster than using other apps. If a pipeline is in place, and you take six crack Maya artists, or six crack Max artists, and six crack LW artists, I've seen how they can all do great work in the same amount of time, but I see the Max and Maya artists doing some things I can only dream about doing in LW.


they need to make one part of the program kick*** so that ppl in the industry cannot be without it.


That's what I keep wondering.

It's not hard to find... amazing work done in Maya, XSI and Max that you just can not do in Lightwave. But I havent seen anything done in LW that cant be handled elsewhere. Where is that standout feature to turns heads? What will make post houses view LW as 'gotta have?'

The renderer and modeler are the usual points raised, leaving an awful lot of wasted code. Thats like when people were buying Toasters just to use LW. And there are better renderers and modeling apps. LW dev seems to ever struggle to play catch up. Where's the big master vision?

Will s.o.f.t.c.o.r.e lure the hot girls... all I can make out are donuts- 68842
http://www.newtek.com/core/

Ivan D. Young
01-27-2009, 08:05 PM
it has to be Open and programmable. The more the better, it will find an audience if it could do that. There will always be somebody who will be willing to try as long as they can program for it. If for no other reason than they are sick of Autodesk.

erikals
01-27-2009, 08:41 PM
yes, there are several parts where LW kicks, it just doesn't kick close to hard enough.

where can LW specialize?
the "LW kicks butt area"...what could it be?
modeling? SFX? animation of some sort?

not sure,...
i'm thinking maybe a major upgrade of IKB,...

AbnRanger
01-27-2009, 09:33 PM
I still say that LW+FPrime+3DC (LW skinned version of 3D Coat), integrated or so would make it very tempting.

The real ace for LW is Worley's upcoming Volumetric (HV's) preview (looks like he took down the video)
If you have that integrated in LW, then you DO have something NOBODY else has! I don't know of any program that has realtime previews of Volumetric shaders

jaxtone
01-28-2009, 05:38 AM
Autodesk has become a gigantic colossus and have built a society of obedient slaves through the years. As I understood the deal is more like a rental service than an ordinary purchase process when you sign up for their softwares!

- Hello sir! I would like to buy a car!

- Yes ok, what model?

- Im interested in the latest model of a Chevy Van so I wonder how much
is it and as a second alternative I would like to take a look at some
used cars as well.

- Sorry but our cars cannot be sold in second hand. If you invest your
money in one itīs all yours till the day you die! But even if you die
it cannot be sold anyway cause itīs our software!

- Hmmm... but what other offers or features would make this interesting
to me?

- We have expensive but necessary subscripton payments and support
deals that guarantees that we answer your questions if you want to ask
anything about "our" software!

:thumbsdow






Too late. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=10914260
Our school was never thinking about not having LW in their toolset for students. The school's prestige is too high not to have every CG related software around installed, smaller schools surely will be very happy to save some money getting the software for free. On the other hand students here already have their preferences when they start (which of course lie in the AD direction) so trying something else is not that interesting for them... so as of yesterday (diploma presentation) Filmakademie is officially cleaned of Wavers. No new students with any LW experience since 5 years. Sad fact, I'd say.

lwanmtr
01-28-2009, 03:22 PM
I dont know what AD's policy is on license transfer..I do recall something about no transfers, but I could be wrong. I do know that you dont get free tech support and that point upgrades are paid..and it's not $395 (like LW). They dont care how close to a new release you bought it either...I know a couple people that bought Maya-8.0 like a week before 8.5 was released and they still would have had to pay to get 8.5.

Mr Rid
01-29-2009, 02:38 PM
...

- Hmmm... but what other offers or features would make this interesting
to me?

How about a career in 3D?

I regularly scour VFXpro job listings and receive weekly listings from CreativeHeads. In recent weeks- Sony, Lucasfilm, Dreamworks, Pixar, Domain, Double Negative, Weta, Blur, South Park, Animal Logic and dozens of other 3D jobs available, and none of them are in Lightwave. A friend of mine has been desperate to find a Lightwave job in the L.A. area in the last month... there aren't any.

Job listings in the last 2 weeks on VFXpro-

Maya 17+
Max - 7
Houdini- 3
XSI- 1
Lightwave - 0
unspecified - 3 (small companies)

On CreativeHeads this week-

Maya- 22
XSI- 7
Max- 2
Lightwave - 1 modeling job specifying skill in Zbrush,Mudbox,Modo or LW.

--------------
Back in month of Feb 2008 on VFXpro-

Maya-41
Max-11
XSI- 3
LW-2
Cinema 4D- 2
Houdini- 4
Massive- 1
Unspecified- 10


So if you were just starting out looking for a career in 3D, wondering which app to invest time in learning out of Maya, Max, XSI, Lightwave, which one looks least like the way to go?

Another thing is how LW is continuously left out of support for nifty new tools, like I was just read about RealFlow Render Kit- http://www.realflow.com/rfrk/whatis.htm Once again, supports Maya, XSI, Max... no LW.

jasonwestmas
01-29-2009, 02:52 PM
Yeah, it's true unfortunately. Everyone I have worked with tell me to use maya. :P I like maya for what it does do well. and it doesn't mean I don't like to use lightwave for specific stuff though.

erikals
01-29-2009, 03:23 PM
yep, found it strange Softimage trashed Foundation though, it could have raised more XSI users and jobs imo.
now they only sell Essentials, which is $3000 :/
strange marketing imo.

and as for Autodesk service,... don't get me started.

lwanmtr
01-29-2009, 03:28 PM
Softimage/xsi have been kinda weird since the SGI days..hehe. My guess would be that they ditched foundation because people found it useful enough to no but esentials...hehe.
Of course, now that it's part of AD, well you cant even get Maya-PLE anymore either

erikals
01-29-2009, 03:33 PM
...Of course, now that it's part of AD, well you cant even get Maya-PLE anymore either

good thing they have the 30 day trial though,... :)

erikals
01-29-2009, 03:39 PM
I still say that LW+FPrime+3DC (LW skinned version of 3D Coat), integrated or so would make it very tempting.

The real ace for LW is Worley's upcoming Volumetric (HV's) preview (looks like he took down the video)
If you have that integrated in LW, then you DO have something NOBODY else has! I don't know of any program that has realtime previews of Volumetric shaders

i've thought the exact same thing, but even though as cool as this is, it wouldn't change much, it would make a helluva great workflow, but nothing more, you still wouldn't need it if you used Maya or simillar.

but for a freelancer, one-man-company, that package would be like Christmas : )

(there is also an upcoming LW plugin that does realtime dynamics, looking foreward to that one,.. : )
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=807360#post807360

Mr Rid
01-30-2009, 02:58 PM
I still say that LW+FPrime+3DC (LW skinned version of 3D Coat), integrated or so would make it very tempting.

The real ace for LW is Worley's upcoming Volumetric (HV's) preview (looks like he took down the video)
If you have that integrated in LW, then you DO have something NOBODY else has! I don't know of any program that has realtime previews of Volumetric shaders

Have just never found FPrime all that wonderful. I found version 1 useless for a number of practical reasons and never used it. But am in old school habits of optimizing so that I dont usually need it, and only use it occasionally to set up something particular. But most of the time it crashes LW every 4 minutes, and about a third of the time it shows something very different than how it renders in LW. I hope the update will co-exist better.

SplineGod
01-30-2009, 03:08 PM
There are some other things that should be available soon such as this:
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/TrueHair/Graphics/Movies/TrueHair_Preview_HyperVoxels_1.mov

jasonwestmas
01-30-2009, 04:52 PM
Hmm cool! I was wondering when another previewer would show up. :D

AbnRanger
01-31-2009, 08:00 AM
There are some other things that should be available soon such as this:
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/TrueHair/Graphics/Movies/TrueHair_Preview_HyperVoxels_1.mov
Wow...I can't speak for Maya, but I can tell you flat out...there is nothing even remotely available for 3ds Max like that...not even on the horizon as far as I know. VRay and finalRender are due to release their new IPR's anyday now:
http://rapidshare.com/files/140933092/R3_Interactive.wmv
...but neither appear to be poised to update volumetrics in realtime

What would be nice is for NT to incorporate a volumetric effects engine that rivals the output of Afterburn or Maya fluids. Perhaps Dynamite? ...but it seems that Cantarcan doesn't care much about its development.

This looks like a good opportunity for NT to carve an entirely new niche for themselves, perhaps.

lwanmtr
01-31-2009, 02:45 PM
If NT could option Dynamite and integrate it into LW, that would be awesome. If it's not being developed, I would think they could get it cheap..hehe.

erikals
01-31-2009, 03:34 PM
yep, it needs more muscles though, as of now it is basically worth the €190, though not more. needs an upgrade, to me it looks like it is only good for small scale renderes,... and also have issues with blockiness,...

nothing would be cooler than for NT to buy and upgrade it though :thumbsup:

btw, this looks like FumeFX
pretty cool stuff,
http://www.vimeo.com/2906529

lwanmtr
01-31-2009, 03:38 PM
Didnt have any blockiness problem when I tried Dynamite, but speed was awful..took me about an hour to render a frame at HD720p...but the effect was far more beleivable than what I got with HV, which has the blobby problem even with volume type.

erikals
01-31-2009, 03:42 PM
the blockiness only appeared on big tweaks,, and it was 1.1, so might have been fixed. for rendering in 720p, i say drop it :) go for half resolution instead, then add the smoke effect in post :) looks quite allright imo, rendertime decreased dramatically :)

lwanmtr
01-31-2009, 03:44 PM
Wel, I was using the free version, which I'm sure prolly lacks things that the full version does...I'll bet it doesnt do threading..hehe.

Cageman
01-31-2009, 06:37 PM
But I havent seen anything done in LW that cant be handled elsewhere. Where is that standout feature to turns heads? What will make post houses view LW as 'gotta have?'

Hmm... I would have to say that the nodal displacement toolset is probably one of the strongest in the industry, at least at what you get without actually having to script or program anything. It is slow, yes, but I just recently used it to solve an animation task that was regarded as "hard to solve quickly, if at all" in our main app, Maya. I spent 20 minutes in LW and created a setup that is animatable on so many levels I really can't count.

So, this isn't something that can't be done in other apps, I'm quite sure of that, BUT... how much time are you prepared to spend in order to get it up and running? Secondly, how often will you animate these kinds of things... is it worth the R&D time to build a tool for such animations?

In this case, I would say... no... for us this is something we probably will not have to animate that often. And since we have LW in the pipe as well, and since it has proven to be VERY usefull (not just in this case) LW has a place where I work, even though it is taking a backseat.

jasonwestmas
01-31-2009, 06:52 PM
And since we have LW in the pipe as well, and since it has proven to be VERY usefull (not just in this case) LW has a place where I work, even though it is taking a backseat.

I expect we can all make LW take a closer seat to the front. This "get er done quickly" mentality is a good one. I hope NT keeps pushing that kind of thinking.