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jefeb
01-21-2009, 01:47 PM
OK
I need input and ammo for the argument of LW vs 3ds max.
Especially concerning render farms. My computer guy wants me to switch to 3ds max because he has had problems setting up a farm and believes 3dsmax is more stable He wants to use this render farm:

http://www.rackmount.com/ExtremeNode/ExtremeNode-EN8720-008-Xeon.htm

Also, I have been using LW for 4 years and 0 on max. There are no training centers for Max here in KC, MO so I'm not sure how to get up to speed that fast.
Is it possible to animate in LW and render in Max on the farm?
We are setting up a new studio for a weekly computer show and will feature selected animations of various cpu parts etc composited with live video.(will be based upon themes of each show so I don't know what exactly I will need to do)
So give me some ammo to throw back at him so I can stay in LW!

Thanks
Jeff

Dirk
01-21-2009, 02:10 PM
You can animate in LW and render in Max, You'll need a plugin for Max called PointOven. Haven't tried it with Max, but works like a charm with Maya.

As for rendering in Max (with Mental Ray), this might be interesting:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=808853&postcount=50

Limbus
01-21-2009, 03:20 PM
OK
I need input and ammo for the argument of LW vs 3ds max.
Especially concerning render farms. My computer guy wants me to switch to 3ds max because he has had problems setting up a farm and believes 3dsmax is more stable He wants to use this render farm:


Choosing a 3D Software based on if the computer guy is able to setup a renderfarm with it is pretty strange. It is even more strange to dump 4 years of experience with one software in favour of another, much more expenisve software based on the render farm setup. A good network adminstrator should be able to setup LW network rendering without any problems. Maybe ask him to look into a 3rd party network rendermanager like BNR.

Cheers, Florian

lwanmtr
01-21-2009, 03:25 PM
Btw, Screamernet isn't the only newtwork renderer for LW...there are a couple others..cant recall at the moment.

You can use Point Oven to go to Max.

Besides the issues that are noted in the post that Dirk linked, MR is slower than LW's render. What you see mostly is people going the other way...animating in Max/Maya, then rendering in LW.

Also, with mental ray, you have a learning curve there..materials have to be setup to take advantage of mental ray..and you have to learn materials in max, which work differently than LW.

If your tech is having trouble setting up a network render, call the guys at NewTek..they can help troubleshoot and such...it's what they're paid to do.

My suggestion is that before you make the jump to max, you should get the demo (at least) and try to get up to speed...given that you'll be doing a weekly show, you wont have time to learn the package during production.

You can also use Max's high price as ammo against it...hehe

ZE_COLMEIA
01-21-2009, 04:31 PM
3DS max has other features like motion drivers that works, robust fbx support, has mental ray, great support for net render, you can have the radiosity/occlusion pass in a separate layer, the shadow do not mix with the background color, photon maps, good dynamics, the uv maps do not bug, CA solid features, skinning ... etc etc,



lightwave has advantages too , its not too heavy, friendly community, free updates, clean interface, easy to learn, price and fare ownership

StereoMike
01-21-2009, 05:02 PM
Your IT-guy wants you to learn a new software so he can have a comfortable life???
For this person the strength and value of a package is defined by his own skills at setting up the renderfarm of that specific program. No word on the actual software, it's rendering capabilities, speed, ease of use, 4 years experience. This is stupid. Nobody buys a car because you get a free chocolate whenever you visit the dealer's garage...

Ask him if he can buy Dell instead of HP for the company, cause you don't like the color of HP's mainboards.

mike

Cageman
01-21-2009, 05:08 PM
OK
I need input and ammo for the argument of LW vs 3ds max.
Especially concerning render farms. My computer guy wants me to switch to 3ds max because he has had problems setting up a farm and believes 3dsmax is more stable He wants to use this render farm:

http://www.rackmount.com/ExtremeNode/ExtremeNode-EN8720-008-Xeon.htm

Also, I have been using LW for 4 years and 0 on max. There are no training centers for Max here in KC, MO so I'm not sure how to get up to speed that fast.
Is it possible to animate in LW and render in Max on the farm?
We are setting up a new studio for a weekly computer show and will feature selected animations of various cpu parts etc composited with live video.(will be based upon themes of each show so I don't know what exactly I will need to do)
So give me some ammo to throw back at him so I can stay in LW!

Thanks
Jeff

This is hillarious! :)

It took me 5-10 minutes to add LW 9.5 to our farm at work and it works like a charm. We use Muster btw, which supports (probably) all applications out there, including compositing apps such as Nuke and Fusion.

Your computer guy needs to get some education, period!

Hopper
01-21-2009, 05:16 PM
Choosing a 3D Software based on if the computer guy is able to setup a renderfarm with it is pretty strange. It is even more strange to dump 4 years of experience with one software in favour of another, much more expenisve software based on the render farm setup. A good network adminstrator should be able to setup LW network rendering without any problems. Maybe ask him to look into a 3rd party network rendermanager like BNR.
:agree:

If your "computer guy" can't figure out ScreamerNet, he's not much of a computer guy.

That, and if he's not smart enough to figure out that you can use ScreamerNet on the very same equipment he wants to buy, it's time to get a new computer guy. They're just PC's in a nice wrapper. If you lift up his name tag, don't be surprised to see a WalMart logo there. I'm sure he was a fine greeter.

lwanmtr
01-21-2009, 05:26 PM
Exactly...Screamernet is easy to setup..has been since 5.x

Perhaps you need to have the discussion with the folks who actually run the studio. Might be time to look at getting another IT guy...hehe.

Walmart...LOL

Dexter2999
01-21-2009, 05:32 PM
Get your computer guy to read this forum.
There are help videos and threads.
If he has problems people here will help.

There is even a post how they got Screamernet to run on a Linux box.

He doesn't have to rely solely on the documentation. And you don't have to be the only person who reads the forum.

Hopper
01-21-2009, 05:43 PM
Get your computer guy to read this forum.
You're assuming he can read... remember ... WalMart...


There are help videos and threads.
And 12 step programs for people like him.


If he has problems people here will help.
I vote Stooch and Jin... I love it when Jin gets a hold of a true idiot.


There is even a post how they got Screamernet to run on a Linux box.
Now don't go all Advanced on him just yet.


Yeah .. I had a bad day today .. can you tell?

Edit: Hey Dexter .. you ever do anymore with the "dust emitter" testing you were posting about on that "other" forum.. :) I'm very interested in accomplishing something similar, but I'm like WalMart boy over there when it comes to animation.

AbnRanger
01-21-2009, 05:49 PM
I use 3ds Max mostly, but I wouldn't want to switch to Max just for rendering purposes[/U]. LW is much too good to switch to a program 3 times the cost for equal rendering capability.
No reason the company should pay extra for "User Error."

Butterfly and Mule are two managers that also have distributed bucket rendering, which makes preview renders over the network (all render slaves tackle the same frame)...great for extremely large single frame output.

Dexter2999
01-21-2009, 05:59 PM
Hopper- Nah, I have been obsessed with the fxguidetv podcasts. On top of that I can't use LW at work at the moment because my laptop is freezing up. So I have to reinstall Vista...for the third time. Really not happy with Vista32 bit. The 64bit version on my desktop has been fine. The laptop has been nothing but headaches since I bought it.

Also been giving thought to buying Aurora's new DVD from Kurv. I could get a lot of milage from some eyecandy for projects at work.

Cageman
01-21-2009, 06:02 PM
I vote Stooch and Jin... I love it when Jin gets a hold of a true idiot.

Has Jin ever helped a LW-user or done any tutorials to show how to use LW?

No... I wouldn't think so...

:D

AbnRanger
01-21-2009, 06:33 PM
Has Jin ever helped a LW-user or done any tutorials to show how to use LW?

No... I wouldn't think so...

:DGettin' sassy are we? :D

Speedmonk42
01-21-2009, 08:22 PM
Butterfly and Mule are two managers that also have distributed bucket rendering, which makes preview renders over the network (all render slaves tackle the same frame)...great for extremely large single frame output.
--------------

Uh... sorry for sounding like an idiot... but you sayin that if I had two more quad cores all three could work on my preview renders?

Holy crap you just cost me a lot of money.

Dont' tell me things like that.

Off to read the wiki... the wonderful wiki of....

AbnRanger
01-21-2009, 11:16 PM
Butterfly and Mule are two managers that also have distributed bucket rendering, which makes preview renders over the network (all render slaves tackle the same frame)...great for extremely large single frame output.
--------------

Uh... sorry for sounding like an idiot... but you sayin that if I had two more quad cores all three could work on my preview renders?

Holy crap you just cost me a lot of money.

Dont' tell me things like that.

Off to read the wiki... the wonderful wiki of....yep...:thumbsup:
Normal network rendering is one frame assigned to one node, whereas Split-frame/Distributed Rendering does it on a smaller, local level...a single frame, which is segmented into pieces. Works beautifully for preview/test renders or anything that will take more than 10-30 sec. It's the ONLY way to ride in those circumstances.

BNR
http://www.butterflynetrender.com/assets/images/scene_splitvert.jpg
http://www.butterflynetrender.com/html/bnr_prostudio.html

Mule (check the 2:30 mark for the split frame/distributed render function)
http://www.epicsoft.net/products/mule/videos/guided/pop.htm
http://www.epicsoft.net/products/mule/enterprise/

TrueArt's VirtualRender:
http://www.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/VirtualRender

JonW
01-21-2009, 11:45 PM
“IT” works for the Animator not the other way round. A render farm is a render farm is a render farm! Its challenging for the layman but not for an IT person.

Use BNR or similar if “IT” can’t cope, or better still get a new IT person, they are obviously amateurs.

To put it bluntly!!!!!!!

I have set up Screamernet by my self, it did take some work but I couldn’t network a few computers!

adk
01-22-2009, 12:17 AM
Since your IT guy sounds like a bit of a tool, I'd invest in a new tool rather than a new 3D app. and the associated learning curve that comes with :) He probably still believes in Y2K ... :D:D:D

There's plenty of info here on how to get ScreamerNet up and running and it's relatively simple if you follow it logically and understand a little about what you are doing as well as what not to do in terms of naming conventions etc. Follow those instructions and you should get it up and running without any issues. Won't even need your IT guy except to copy and rename a few files across the nodes that you plan to use.

As also mentioned there various network render solutions you can use that make the process less painful and add some extra functionality that might be quite useful to you in your workflow ...

adk

VirtualFM
01-22-2009, 07:35 PM
I just want to add Smedge to that list of Renderfarm Controllers. It's the fastest around when managing scenes (this means that it takes much less time assigning scenes and nodes around than other renderfarm controllers, including Butterfly Netrender) and pretty easy to setup. It's also cheap, when comparing with some others (some even charge "per core" instead of "per machine", which sucks!). As a negative note, it doesn't "split render" (doesn't allow one image distributed for many renderengines).

It can be found at http://www.uberware.net/.

PS: Your "computer guy" sounds like one of those that solves must stuff by restarting the computer and in extreme cases go for a full OS re-install ;-)

jefeb
01-25-2009, 07:14 PM
Thanks for all the input!:thumbsup:

We will stay in lightwave! We are going to use a local animation studio to help with the render farm setup. They will also do all our modeling in 3dsMax (not my strong point) then I will animate and render in lightwave. Should make for a quick turn around for our weekly show.

Thanks again for all the great support this forum provides
Jeff