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cgb777
01-20-2009, 03:58 PM
Has anyone came across a way to make grass blowing in the wind with FiberFX? I did a quick sample by animating a procedural on the gravity property.

Also, still trying to figure out the best combination of FiberFX settings and geometry detail to avoid the "hair-plug" look.

adamredwoods
01-20-2009, 04:25 PM
That is a nice render, and yes, I'd animate grass the same way. Wind is usually in long waves, along with a little turbulence.

As far as grass is concerned, I usually use a few tips:
- set fiber width to 30000 to 100000% (yes that high depending on scene scale-- IF you dont use volumetric hair)
- click the RANDOM for swirl. I've tried using a high CLUMP distance, which also gives a good random look, but tends to draw beyond the polygon edge (not good for hills).
- random length 100% or higher

and last
- play with the BUMP setting, with a turbulent texture. keep the scale on the texture low. I have the BUMP setting to 200% or higher.

Sometimes two layers may help achieve the look, one regular grass layer and another crazy layer to break it up, but I haven't had the time to experiment that route yet.

samartin
01-20-2009, 04:33 PM
What are the render times for your scene? I haven't looked into fiberFX yet, your renders make me want to play :)

SplineGod
01-20-2009, 07:22 PM
That hair plug looks been a problem with ffx for awhile. Hope its been solved with the release.

cgb777
01-21-2009, 07:59 AM
Cool, thanks for some direction as far as settings go. I hadn't thought to use the bump setting at all. I did use a couple layers of textures to color it and get the subtleties between the green and brown grass.

As far as render times go, at 1280x720 I was clocking in roughly 45 seconds per frame. Which is actually surprisingly fast.

mav3rick
01-21-2009, 09:22 AM
very nice

monovich
01-21-2009, 09:40 AM
looking very good. I wish I had ffx experience to share, but maybe I'll learn something from this thread. wanna share the scene? ;)

cgb777
01-21-2009, 10:27 AM
Sure thing, have fun! Let me know what you think.

Larry_g1s
01-21-2009, 10:47 AM
That hair plug looks been a problem with ffx for awhile. Hope its been solved with the release.I dunno...I think this one looks pretty good: http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62292&d=1219712923

And you gotta figure this is a hair and fur plug-in, and in it's infancy.

Nice render by the way cgb777.

Snosrap
01-21-2009, 09:11 PM
Glad you like it Larry!

Cheers
Snosrap

SplineGod
01-21-2009, 09:45 PM
Larry,
For simple things ffx seems to work ok for some ppl. On more complicated things its caused me nothing but grief, in fact enough grief what we had to drop it and go back to sasquatch. Maybe its more stable now after using it last about a month ago. When I get a chance to put it thru some paces again Ill let you know. :)

Larry_g1s
01-21-2009, 11:59 PM
Larry,
For simple things ffx seems to work ok for some ppl. On more complicated things its caused me nothing but grief, in fact enough grief what we had to drop it and go back to sasquatch. Maybe its more stable now after using it last about a month ago. When I get a chance to put it thru some paces again Ill let you know. :)I'd be interested to see your results LS, I know that was one of your big complaints with the 9.5 cycle. It'd be interesting to see how how you feel about the 9.6 version.

Thomas M.
01-22-2009, 12:25 AM
I needed to use FFX for the last two projects and honestly, it's not really production ready.
Weight maps and image maps hardly work or do in strange ways. The styling approach so far, especially in Layout is rather experimental. Lack of symmetry mode and the abilily to style only limited areas. As soon as you brush the guides in the front, those on the backside will be styled as well. Very efficient. Although there's no collision detection for the guides. So it's a pain in the butt to style the guides for an animal.

The biggest weakness so far, very obvious in you grass render, is the fact that clump and splay, twist, etc. work on a per poly basis. So you styling is restricted to the way your model looks like. If you go for a higher Sub D level you can't style it anymore as the guides clump together to a black mass. Although the guides aren't distributed evenly over the surface, but although in a per poly way. Doesn't make sense in most cases and complicates styling.

So far the way it gets rendered is very nice. No steps or anything, beautyful. Only the way the shadows work is another thing. For point sampling I need to go up to 1/24/24, otherwise the shadows won't look right.

Hope the fix the rather sloppy styling implementation in layout very soon. Then FFX could be really something ...

SplineGod
01-22-2009, 02:21 AM
Thats not good news. I was hoping that after a month that all this would have been fixed.

dmack
01-22-2009, 02:53 AM
Hate to say it but that really is Lightwave summed up in a nutshell. "Not production ready". I have come across this feeling as Larry says "For simple things ffx seems to work ok for some ppl. On more complicated things its caused me nothing but grief" so many times in so many areas it is untrue. Sorry to be all negative but I'm, once again, in a complete low with LW.

SplineGod
01-22-2009, 03:43 AM
Im kind of bummed to hear that. We had to stop using 9.6 beta on the show I was working on before vacation and stay with the most stable version we had. For me that was back to 9.3.1 and sasquatch and FPrime. Too many things kept biting us. Luckily I finally left to go on vaction for a month hoping to come back and find LW to be a lot more robust. This doesnt fill me with warm fuzzies thats for sure.

StOuen
01-22-2009, 03:57 AM
Im kind of bummed to hear that. We had to stop using 9.6 beta on the show I was working on before vacation and stay with the most stable version we had. For me that was back to 9.3.1 and sasquatch and FPrime. Too many things kept biting us. Luckily I finally left to go on vaction for a month hoping to come back and find LW to be a lot more robust. This doesnt fill me with warm fuzzies thats for sure.

Yup same here. 9.3.1 was a great release for stability compared to the latter releases, but have been using 9.6 for last couple of days and so far so good. Fingers crossed!

samartin
01-22-2009, 04:19 AM
Hmmmm I've been using 9.6 solid for the past 2 days now and not encountered a problem. Mind I'm not using FiberFX and I certainly decided against using F-Prime.

I tried using F-Prime and it is far too unreliable, thankfully the LW render engine is fast (for my needs anyway).

SplineGod
01-22-2009, 04:24 AM
We went back to 9.3 also because some of the tweaks in LWs GI during the beta cycle were also introducing issues of its own including problems with FPrime.

Thomas M.
01-22-2009, 05:28 AM
Kink is totally broken with weights and image maps!!! You can't isolate it correctly. Kinky artefacts appear in areas where they are not supposed to be seen. Damn!!!

cgb777
01-22-2009, 10:48 AM
The biggest weakness so far, very obvious in you grass render, is the fact that clump and splay, twist, etc. work on a per poly basis.

Agreed. When the camera is close to the geometry, the grass working on a per-poly basis really becomes apparent. Although I think the grass in the distance towards the right of the image looks fairly nice and varied. Probably just goes to show, as with most things, a "one-size-fits-all" setting to handle both close and far shots in the scene does not work.

Maybe more specific styling and geometry would have to be made to handle grass that is relatively close to the camera to avoid the issue. Nevertheless the ease of rendering sure makes it fun to play with.

Jim M
01-22-2009, 11:02 AM
I like it. But I use image maps...

adamredwoods
01-22-2009, 11:08 AM
Probably just goes to show, as with most things, a "one-size-fits-all" setting to handle both close and far shots in the scene does not work.


You can adjust this with gradients: distance to camera.

I also agree with others in this thread, FiberFX is not for stylized hair.
Grass, basic fur, seems ok.

Jim M
01-22-2009, 11:26 AM
Some surprising comments. I think it rocks.

adamredwoods
01-22-2009, 11:32 AM
Some surprising comments. I think it rocks.
Can you show us some samples? Perhaps some tips on your workflow?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94244

cgb777
01-22-2009, 11:54 AM
You can adjust this with gradients: distance to camera.

Good idea. The grass in your scene looks great.

Thomas M.
01-22-2009, 12:55 PM
Some surprising comments. I think it rocks.

The styling possibilities don't (not at all). Render quality does.

cgb777
01-22-2009, 01:07 PM
After playing with some more settings, here is my progress. 1/24/24 for the shadows really helped. It eliminated much of the shadow banding I was getting.


And now a different lighting setup.

monovich
01-22-2009, 01:11 PM
definitely getting nicer. sad to hear about all the bugs.

adamredwoods
01-22-2009, 02:18 PM
beautiful! grass looks a little dry tho...