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View Full Version : Companies that Newtek SHOULD do strategic partnerships....



robertoortiz
01-18-2009, 06:20 PM
Autodesk is right now the 300 pound Gorilla in the 3D world that everyone has to deal with. They control so far 3 of the top 5 3d apps in the market.
(They are 3D Studio, Maya & Softimage. An that does not include their stakes in the Arch-Viz market and Studio tools)

Only Houdini, Cinema 4d and Lightwave are outside their control..for the time being


In my humble opinion one of the best way to compete in this vertical market is to Newtek to form strategic partnerships with Autodesk competitors...

Some companies that should be mentioned are:

Adobe This company is to big for Autodesk to handle. Huge user base of designers and artists.

Eyeon The makers of Digital Fusion..

Foundry (The makers of Nuke). Let just say that this veteran developer of plugins for the Autodesk market is as of now in bad terms with them...
Link (http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/news/2009/01/autodesk_snub_prompts_foundry_price_cut.html;jsess ionid=492B85E82CBDDCB1FED7118A013ECF41?tmcsTrackin gInfo=$8DwcjRTxEr2n8jjnOw8sgADYqL335DI75Fc5BPPJoEL HpDoGqHsmj-Kq-P-aqQ6LhuiHNW8kW54$)
And of course
Apple...

Looking forward to your comments..
-R

Jockomo
01-18-2009, 08:44 PM
You forgot to mention the other 300 pound gorilla... Blender. It's not the one in front of them that they need to worry about it's the one behind them.

Lightwave is no doubt in between a rock and a hard place. However, I think they are in a much better place than they were a few years ago. If they can just continue to hold their course and deliver a strong showing for LW10 then I think they will be ok.

We have all seen what happens when companies get too big. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

DiscreetFX
01-18-2009, 08:46 PM
You guys have mentioned some great food for thought.

AbnRanger
01-19-2009, 01:43 PM
You forgot to mention the other 300 pound gorilla... Blender. It's not the one in front of them that they need to worry about it's the one behind them.

Lightwave is no doubt in between a rock and a hard place. However, I think they are in a much better place than they were a few years ago. If they can just continue to hold their course and deliver a strong showing for LW10 then I think they will be ok.

We have all seen what happens when companies get too big. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.Blender's being free and its UI keep it from being a part of production pipelines. Since LW is more established in that area, I doubt it's threatened much for that reason. It is threatened more in the hobbyist market, of course, but just because Blender has some nice features that LW doesn't, won't change the production side of things.

multipass
01-19-2009, 03:21 PM
i would be happy if newtek patched things up with modo people. and made lw10 a merger of layout and modo into one package. then just beefed up the CA tools and :D:D:D

Dexter2999
01-19-2009, 05:45 PM
If NewTek could incorperate a full multi pass render function that is designed to be seamless with something like FUSION or NUKE, it would be a big step in the right direction.

Add a bucket renderer to work with huge 4K resolutions? Because this seems to be the way the big boys are moving.

CA is a given.

Little things like cleaning up the tools HAVE to be done.

It seems like many of the shortcomings are answered in third part app's. But do people want to have to buy an app. (even if it is relatively inexpensive) then buy two or three other app's to "fix" it?
Sure you get LW for $750, but shell out $300 for the TruArt tools, $150 for 3D Coat. Now you are over a grand and still don't have the CA corrected or a water simulation solution.

It would be nice if they could partner with these developers to make LW a more thorough app. If not a buy out then some cash and profit participation deal. Perhaps the developers could make up the difference in making and marketing the training for their tools like the Blender guys do.

I certainly don't envy the guys at NT and the job ahead of them.

jin choung
01-19-2009, 07:00 PM
And of course
Apple...


ewwwwwwwww...

...

is it just me or does newtek seem to be almost the OPPOSITE of what apple tries to present itself as.

jin

geothefaust
01-19-2009, 07:12 PM
Agreed... No way to apple. Their philosophies, as companies, seem to be diametrically opposed. I just couldn't see that happening.

--

I'd like to see more interaction from NT (and vice versa) with Pilgway, Pixologic and the dudes who do UVLayout.

AbnRanger
01-19-2009, 07:18 PM
If NewTek could incorperate a full multi pass render function that is designed to be seamless with something like FUSION or NUKE, it would be a big step in the right direction.

Add a bucket renderer to work with huge 4K resolutions? Because this seems to be the way the big boys are moving.

CA is a given.

Little things like cleaning up the tools HAVE to be done.

It seems like many of the shortcomings are answered in third part app's. But do people want to have to buy an app. (even if it is relatively inexpensive) then buy two or three other app's to "fix" it?
Sure you get LW for $750, but shell out $300 for the TruArt tools, $150 for 3D Coat. Now you are over a grand and still don't have the CA corrected or a water simulation solution.

It would be nice if they could partner with these developers to make LW a more thorough app. If not a buy out then some cash and profit participation deal. Perhaps the developers could make up the difference in making and marketing the training for their tools like the Blender guys do.

I certainly don't envy the guys at NT and the job ahead of them.

I think they need some juice...something of a niche...like having FPrime and 3D coat integrated. 3D Coat could simply operate as a separate module that comunicates through the hub, and use a LW skinned UI. Call it "StudioFX." Andrew could continue to develop 3DC as a standalone, but having a 3DC license with each copy of LW would certainly be economically feasible for both parties, me thinks. Where FPrime could add some real kick is having the ability to view the sculpting and painting updates in real time. Mudbox rocks because it gives you near final output appearance in it's view port.
Having BOTH 3DC and FPrime working together as integrated components within LW, takes that one large step further. For you see in the 3DC viewport a close, OpenGL proximation...yet on your 2nd monitor you can see FPrime update the final output...no proximation at all. What you see IS what you're going to get...GI and all!

Andrew, Steve and the Newtek Dev. team can make some noise if they got together on this.

Dexter2999
01-19-2009, 07:35 PM
Now, see that idea kind of occurred to me.
Partner and remarket the third party stuff as LW modules you add on.
Some people may buy the add ons now, and others may hesitate to buy from a small third party for concerns of support and what not. "Why would I buy from this third party guy when everyone else is using this other bigger third party program?" But if it was marketed by NT as official module sales might increase? It would make NT look like they have a more complete app. on the market it is just modular. And the 3rd party developer would benefit from looking like a bigger better established operation.

So, LW Basic would be as is?
LW advanced would have the other modules packaged?
This is all of the top of my head so I know there are gaping holes in my logic. But I don't see where partnering could really hurt either party...I guess until it came down to division of profits and negotiating that point.

It still bothers me that Apple owns SHAKE. Grrrrrrrr.

AbnRanger
01-19-2009, 08:46 PM
...It still bothers me that Apple owns SHAKE. Grrrrrrrr.And Final Cut. They could make a killing if they offered it on Windows as well. Probably put Avid out of business altogether.

Granted, there are reasons for leaving 3rd party software outside the package it suports, but from time to time it helps to integrate it. The best example is FiberFX. Where would it be feature-wise, if it hadn't been assimilated by Newtek? Likewise, how much easier would it be for LW users if Andrew was contracted to port a LW-skinned version of 3DC (in all it's CUDA and Volumetric sculpting glory) to be used within future versions of LW. Having the capability to use 3DC to update your base mesh live in layout (viewport could show base mesh, while FPrime shows rendertime displacement...with full Radiosity) would be the only way to work for a game or film artist
Instead of icons, the UI would have the LW scheme, using text.

It would be a first in the industry, and a big leap forward, IMO. Newtek is within reach of having their own unique niche in this market...beyond it's native rendering. Now, it can be THE standard...if they want it to.

You think game artists won't salivate over this?

jin choung
01-19-2009, 09:59 PM
You think game artists won't salivate over this?

if they're not using 3dcoat NOW, they won't use it if it's combined with lw. if game artists aren't using lw NOW, they won't use it if 3dcoat is included.

people still prefer zbrush over MUDBOX for heaven's sake. 3dcoat would by means be a game changer imo.

though having a completely separate app like 3dc (as opposed to a plugin like fiberfx) be integrated thoroughly into lw seems like a tremendously non-trivial task.

as for integrated sculpting/traditionalmodeling apps, they have isilo and blender already. and if layout and the character animation capabilities isn't tremendously compelling... yeah, not a game changer.

jin

doimus
01-20-2009, 02:01 AM
Game artist are essentially using the same software they used 10 years ago (3dsMax), because it was affordable and it was the most convenient to keep the pipeline through the years.
With the current worldwide economic situation, I guess many companies will be re-evaluating Autodesk bloodsucking licensing schemes. And that's where NT could step in. After they sort out the fbx/collada export and (quite) a few other things, of course.


As for archviz industry, it will be dead in a few months anyway, so those who survive will be using either the most expensive software (Autodesk minions) or ink and paper. Or pirated Max licenses in the hands of the kids next door (nothing gets you through the lean years like underpaid child labor). Nothing of interest for NT there.

All being said, I believe if there ever was a good time for NT to be lone player under the radar, it is now. Just like the mammals in the age of dinosaurs. :thumbsup:

cresshead
01-20-2009, 04:29 AM
there's some wacky ideas in this thread!

the thing i'd like to see would be the end of "the hub"...end that 'partnership' pleeeease!

Kuzey
01-20-2009, 04:46 AM
I say steal Bryce from daz and integrate it into LW.

Mmmmm...terrain editor, sky lab, tree lab, nondestructive booleans, infinite planes....oh my :D

Kuzey

Nemoid
01-21-2009, 06:05 AM
I'd partner also with 3dcoat programmer. 3dcoat is Lw oriented and programmer is quite a genius.
A good partnership could lead more users to know Lw as well.:thumbsup:

AbnRanger
01-21-2009, 06:23 PM
there's some wacky ideas in this thread!

the thing i'd like to see would be the end of "the hub"...end that 'partnership' pleeeease!If you have a live link from 3DC to a displacement or material node you'd have a means to seeing your FINAL output...GI and all, with FPrime running on your second monitor.

What's wacky about live updates to displacement map changes?

3DC with a LW skin? Why would that be wacky? Joe Alter sold Shave and a Haircut to 4 different programs. Each have their own UI, and development teams that build on it. If Andrew can implement CUDA and volumetric sculpting (whole new paradigm), why would it be out of the question for Newtek to license a LW linked and skinned version?

Personally, I think Andrew's development dollars and efforts are better spent in a venture like this (where his number of licenses grows exponentially), than to cater to a microscopic Linux community.

Matt
01-22-2009, 06:55 AM
Personally, I think NT missed a trick with Dassault Systemes and others in the CAD market. To prove it wasn't a silly idea, what happens, Luxology snuck in with Photoview 360.

They also need to buddy up with the games industry more too.

cresshead
01-22-2009, 07:17 AM
if/when newtek deilver their next gen of lightwave [lw10 i'm hoping on] then i'd look to see companies come along knocking on newtek's doors trying to get a way in rather than the other way around.:thumbsup:

praa
01-22-2009, 09:29 AM
As for archviz industry, it will be dead in a few months anyway, so those who survive will be using either the most expensive software (Autodesk minions) or ink and paper. Or pirated Max licenses in the hands of the kids next door (nothing gets you through the lean years like underpaid child labor). Nothing of interest for NT there.

well, i have a different point of view here...

i model in form-z for architecture models and render and clone stuff (HD instance) in LW. form-z is a perfect fit for LW and we can manage humongous models and projects with ease (we save directly in LWO).

with LW 9.5 i do not need fprime anymore

in the office many people play around (literally) in sketchup but the models are as precise as cardboard models with hot glue

we also have autodesk revit minions but they are going nowhere it's not even funny :)

so i am quite confident that in the end the 3d team (3 persons 2 of wich use form-z extensively and waiting for bonzai 3d) will stay the course so don't dismiss archviz too fast my friend

a+

doimus
01-24-2009, 04:44 PM
What I meant was that LW, as you said it well, already has most of the archviz features, especially since cached radiosity was introduced. And that archviz may not be the highest priority field right now.

Regarding the state of the archviz industry, it looks like more and more architectural companies are either having in-house viz "departments" (architects who have to struggle with weird 3d apps), or outsource to advertising agencies (for big projects - that include video authoring, music, professional narration and other PR [email protected]). And then are those who outsource to the "kid next door" who does nice GI renders with instanced foliage with VRay/Max for peanuts.
I really believe that the Arch Viz freelancer is slowly going down the Dodo road.