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3DGFXStudios
01-17-2009, 10:07 AM
I want an Ocean shader in lightwave. Something hyper-realistic. Like the one in Maya but then even better. With all the options for creating waves and interaction with objects like boats and the ability to let stuff float on it, splashes etc.:hey:

4dartist
01-17-2009, 10:52 AM
Sounds good to me. I'll take one too.

Matt
01-17-2009, 06:37 PM
Isn't that essentially fluid dynamics then?

You can get pretty close using displacement and clever shading, just no breaking waves etc.

3DGFXStudios
01-18-2009, 06:21 AM
No it's not fluid dynamics. That would be really really cool. Just some kind of clever displacement and shading. You really can't reproduce that in an easy way with lightwave. There's even some kind of fake SSS in there and ocean foam control. (the white caps on top of a wave) etc...

Have you seen what the Maya ocean shaders can do? It works easy and looks amazing. I've tried many times to create something like that in Lightwave but I always end up with some procedural looking 3Disch sea. Clever shading and some displacement isn't just enough to get a realistic sea. The motion is also very important. I say 50/50

trick
01-18-2009, 09:24 AM
Isn't Dave Vrba the guy who adapted the Arete ocean shaders/displacement plugins (Initially for Maya/MR) for Lightwave as the Dynamic Realities NatureFX plugins, and isn't he working for Newtek now ? Well...what's stopping him then :D There probably already is some Dynamic Realities technology incorporated in LW, but it sure couldn't hurt to implement and improve them ALL...

Magnus81
01-18-2009, 09:29 PM
I tried Nature FX years ago, but found it so annoying to work with. For one thing, it's not actual subdivided planes( which is less taxing on memory), but can be hard to orientate objects for animating boats and such, because you can't actually see the waves in layout without doing a F9 all the time. Just my two cents.
I really like realflow, but can't afford it:(

3DGFXStudios
01-19-2009, 03:35 AM
I tried NatureFX too but it's not even nearly as realistic as the Maya ocean shader. And realflow is just an other cup of tea.

4dartist
01-19-2009, 08:13 AM
Foam and white caps would be good effects to have, that I haven't really done yet on my ocean shots. Also to use a procedural as the displacement that is more accurate to waves. The ones I use look passable but defiantly not very realistic for waves. I've heard some good things about the maya ocean, I'd like to try it out someday.

Matt
01-19-2009, 08:31 AM
You know about this tutorial right?

http://www.simplylightwave.com/movie_pages/tutorial.mhtml?tut_id=3

Magnus81
01-19-2009, 11:46 AM
Those tuts look promising. Think I'll check it out.

3DGFXStudios
01-19-2009, 11:52 AM
Yup... But that's not half as realistic than what it should be ;)

vbk!!!
01-19-2009, 03:39 PM
lightwave provide a lot procedural shaders to get nice ocean animation.
Personally i sue realflow at work and the couple RF/LW is cool.
I made a little workflow to use LW displacement to get custom wave in Realflow.
I m studying a way to get good foam sim now.
Houdini looks very powerful for this king of thing too ... i have to learn that freaky software.

yep
http://www.vbkstudio.com/movies/sea_low.mov

Cageman
01-19-2009, 04:09 PM
NatureFX ocean shader was used in Deep Blue Sea and The Guardian... quality speaks for itself!

And why the hell has NewTek removed the Case Studies from the LW-page? *sigh* Flash Film Works (who did the vfx for both Deep Blue Sea and The Guardian), talked about their use and involvement in the developement of the Ocean shader that later went into the NatureFX set of plugins.

Oh well...

artstorm
01-19-2009, 04:24 PM
NatureFX ocean shader was used in Deep Blue Sea and The Guardian... quality speaks for itself!

Yes, NatureFX is actually a pretty nice plugin, which can produce some excellent results. Too bad it hasn't been updated since 2003, as it starts to show it's age and lacks some things that you'd expect in a decent ocean shader today. And no 64-bit version on the horizon either last time I asked (about a year ago).
But if you're looking for basic ocean shading with reaction to objects NatureFX will do a pretty fine job. Foam can be tricked into it, but it's a bit cumbersome. I tried NatureFX in 9.5 (I think or 9.3) some months ago when I needed to pick up an old scene, and it seemed to still work fine.

vbk!!!
01-19-2009, 04:30 PM
cageman :
are you sure NAtfx was use in Guardian ?
I saw a lot of realwave work but no Natfx.

Cageman
01-19-2009, 04:35 PM
cageman :
are you sure NAtfx was use in Guardian ?
I saw a lot of realwave work but no Natfx.

They used RealFlow to add alot of water effects in the form of splashes and spray, but those effects (or rather simulations) were transfered to LW as object sequences. LightWave was then used for the Lighting/shading and rendering (where Ocean Shader was used among other things).

Cageman
01-19-2009, 04:49 PM
Oh... and you can read an article (http://www.cgw.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=DE4D5C17ECF149039260CBE5D0F3ACCE) about the effects in The Guardian. Unfortunately they don't mention Nature FX Ocean shader in that one (damn...where are those case-studies when I need them...*sigh*), but the use of LightWaves renderengine is quite extensive.

:)

vbk!!!
01-20-2009, 01:52 AM
Thanks
i aldready read this .
But i still can't tell what is the benefit for using NatFX instead of native LW shading tools...
Is it possible to compute curvature to make foam ?
I tried to use curvature node of Sir Denis but it crashes with hi rez meshes.
I hope the LWX will get features like native curvature node and good communication between shaders and Particle engine.