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Aaron_Price
01-07-2009, 04:45 PM
Ok I finally managed to get the effect I wanted with an animating sun, in which the camera zooms in on the sun from a far away distance. Then it slowly pans down to the edge of the sun then the camera continues to move forward till the sun is out of frame.

The animation is about 400-600 frames long, however the problem is I managed to get the effect I wanted using particles and vibration of the particles to create movement in the sun. The only problem is that the rendering times were huge and took a good 14-15 hours to render the whole scene.

I was wondering if there was a shortcut way of doing this??? Would I simply be better using a polygon sphere instead?

If so how would I go about animating the texture to give the 3D sun some life when moving in on it with the camera?

Kind Regards

Aaron Price :)

Silkrooster
01-07-2009, 11:38 PM
Couldn't you use the polygon sphere and have emitters in key locations around the sphere to give it some life. I am thinking that just reducing the amount of hypervoxels would help speed up rendering time. It may not look as active, but its part of the balancing act quality vs rendering time.
Silk

Matt
01-08-2009, 03:00 AM
14-15 hours for the _whole_ animation doesn't seem that bad to me, or do you mean per frame?

Aaron_Price
01-08-2009, 06:54 AM
Couldn't you use the polygon sphere and have emitters in key locations around the sphere to give it some life. I am thinking that just reducing the amount of hypervoxels would help speed up rendering time. It may not look as active, but its part of the balancing act quality vs rendering time.
Silk

I'll give it a try that way and see how it comes out thanks :)

Aaron_Price
01-08-2009, 06:55 AM
14-15 hours for the _whole_ animation doesn't seem that bad to me, or do you mean per frame?

That was for the whole animation.

MiniFireDragon
01-08-2009, 11:57 AM
15 hours for say 600 frames is 1.5 minutes a frame, what is the complaint? That is fast. I have hit renders with 4 - 5 hour per frame and several days to complete, and that is using a small render farm.

Lightwaves Render has come a long way since 8.0

monovich
01-08-2009, 01:52 PM
my current renders are taking 12+ hours per frame. consider yourself lucky. :)

jaxtone
01-08-2009, 05:49 PM
my current renders are taking 12+ hours per frame. consider yourself lucky. :)

Then I guess you have access to an effective render farm! Otherwise I feel sorry for you according to the customer accounts you work with! I guess not they are not coming upp with the projects years in advance or is willing to wait for ages for the final solutions! :hey:

I usually donīt see long render times as a key concept for quality, since there are to many aspects in how making an ultimate result, but in your case I am willing to say so! Great job!

Netvudu
01-08-2009, 06:07 PM
14 hours for 400-600 frames is actually a great render time!! You think just above a minute per frame itīs too bad?...

...also what does 400-600 frames is supposed to mean? is it 400 or is it 600? Weīre speaking about 50% of the length of difference here!

Aaron_Price
01-08-2009, 08:34 PM
14 hours for 400-600 frames is actually a great render time!! You think just above a minute per frame itīs too bad?...

...also what does 400-600 frames is supposed to mean? is it 400 or is it 600? Weīre speaking about 50% of the length of difference here!

Sorry my mistake, it was exactly 400 frames, I originally had it set at 600 but took the scene down to 400 frames. I had the scene render with radiosity turned off and was rendered in Widescreen PAL.

It was the first time I have truly rendered a scene of 400 frames especially of particles only. The particle count was 333 with particle size of 380m with size variation of 15.0%

I'm going to try it with a polygon with couple of emitters like suggested to see if I can increase the rendering speed a little. Guess I'm a little impatient when I can't do anything else on the computer till it's finished rendering lol

prometheus
01-10-2009, 07:21 AM
Hey Aaron!
Can you show us some stills or clips of what you are doing? would be interesting to see how the sun looks like.

By the way, if you havenīt seen it, you can check this thread at spinquad, dealing with the sun and solar flares. mostly stills in there thou. but
perhaps it might be of interest.
mostly some procedurals on a polysphere, and only hypervoxels sprite to add flares and glow.

I have another profile thou over there as phamarus..

http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21732&highlight=solar+flares

Michael

precedia
01-14-2009, 09:22 AM
The attached scene and star animation renders 10 seconds per frame on my 8 core Mac Pro (low adaptive sampling); 400 frames in about 1 hour. You need the latest LightWave beta to load the scene (9.5+).

The textures are based on work by LwRedStorm from his free (and much more complicated) "Animation du Soleil."

The solar flares are animated. The sun surface texture is not but of course it could be via envelopes on the surface texture. There are three cameras in the scene.

The trick for quick render times is to use Sprites and not Volumes for the hypervoxels. Sprites render very fast and are at times "good enough." I only have 1 slice enabled for the sprites. Increasing the sprite slice count gives better quality but longer render times.

Also attached is a rendered animation that is in the scene file (in QuickTime format) and a Windows Media render (it had to be zipped to avoid an "illegal file" error on upload).

I hope this helps.

Daniel

Aaron_Price
01-14-2009, 05:15 PM
Sorry I haven't been on for a couple of days.

I have attached with this message 3 images in sequence.

1, Was the very first render I done which was complety hypervixels

2, A polygon sphere with 2 textured maps and bump map with glow around it.

3, The same polygon sphere with textured maps and bump, plus with glow and hypervixels.

Thanks precedia that looks fantastic and a great effect, I used the particles on my 3 render of my Sun.

The third render took me 1 minute and 26 seconds to render by the way.

precedia
01-14-2009, 06:04 PM
I like the third one the best. You appear to have scaled down the hypervoxel distance from the sun's surface as your version has the flares less evident.

Good work.

Daniel

Aaron_Price
01-14-2009, 06:24 PM
Just created a new emitter and sized it up a bit with colour to the particles. The only challange now is how do I go about adding a little movement to the textures as the animation plays???

Another thing when the animation zooms in on the Sun the zoom is fast and sharply stops. I want it to smoothly stop to the Sun rather than like a sharp break.

precedia
01-14-2009, 06:34 PM
Movement to the textures can be done through the envelope (E) next to the position, scale, or rotation. Open up the surface editor. Press on T for you bump texture (for example). For a layer in your bump texture note the Position, Rotation, and Falloff tabs at the bottom.

Note the "E" button next to each. You can open the graph editor, set a keyframe at frame 0, give the Position.X a value. Set a keyframe at frame 400, give the Position.X a value that shifts it to the right. Do the same for Position.Y and/or Position.Z. You can then do the same for Rotation.

Your texture should then appear to move in interesting ways.

You can also envelope your hypervoxel textures if you want.
Just look for all the "E" buttons in your hypervoxel settings.

More complicated is using the nodal editor and having texture values (e.g. crumple's frequency value, change from frame to frame).

Daniel

precedia
01-14-2009, 07:00 PM
Another thing when the animation zooms in on the Sun the zoom is fast and sharply stops. I want it to smoothly stop to the Sun rather than like a sharp break.

Stopping smoothly is done in two ways: 1) with appropriately spaced keyframes and 2) keyframe curves.

For #2 you use 1) the graph editor and 2) Tension, Continuity, and Bias (TCB).

Attached is a snapshot of the graph editor. In it I have the X position of the camera selected.

Notice in the bottom right corner the drop down "Incoming Curve". This describes what type of curve you see to the left of the selected point (keyframe) that is incoming to that keyframe.

How the curve behaves--how smoothly the curve comes to a stop--and therefore how smoothly the camera comes to a stop, is set here.

I have selected a "TCB Spline" incoming curve (the default) but changed Tension to 1.0. This is called "easing in."

Experiment with a Tension of 0, look at the curve, then a Tension of 1, then look at the curve. With a Tension of 1 the camera will gently ease in to its resting position rather than abruptly stop.

NewTek's Layout manual has some good documentation on TCB.

In fact, I was just reading a book on the history of animation, specifically about the Disney geniuses who created Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Sleeping Beauty, Dumbo, Fantasia, Pinocchio, etc. as far back as 1936: Grim Natwick, Ken Harris, Milt Kahl, Art Babbitt. Sadly, they are no longer with us, but their genius survives.

They perfected the ease-in and ease-out, but most certainly the hard way with hand-drawn artwork and hand-labeled keyframe markers for the "inbetweeners" to animate. If today's animators don't know what an inbetweener is, they may want to pick up a history book. I saw inbetweener credits just the other day while watching a modern animation (possibly a Pixar animation). It surprised me as it's from the hand-drawn animation days but clearly there are inbetweeners in today's computer animation studios.

Luckly, through the magic of LightWave, techniques the Disney geniuses pioneered decades ago are simply a few clicks away for use by today's up-and-coming stars (pun intended).

Have fun; keep up the good work.

Daniel

Aaron_Price
01-14-2009, 07:37 PM
EXCELLENT! Thanks for all the tips precedia, I will have a play around with the tips you have given me tomorrow. Then when I have render something I will update with a new post here. :thumbsup:

Kind Regards

Aaron Price

Aaron_Price
01-18-2009, 12:11 PM
I have attached the original video that I'm trying to achieve.

The film clip I have sent is from Superman The Movie, the original sun was created from lighting on fire a tin of fuel then filming it at high speed.

I'm having trouble understanding and getting this effect of animating the texture in this Envolope and graph editor. However at the moment the biggest problem is getting the same camera movements as the live footage.

Another problem I'm facing now, when I move the camera the object sphere or play the animation as a preview live in layout. The object disappears and all I get is a yellow cube box in it's place.