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View Full Version : 8.3 and 8.5 crash every 5 minutes... Does no one have an answer???



hurleyman
12-19-2008, 07:52 AM
:cursin:

I've posted this problem in so many forums, it's getting hard to keep track of. No one has any answers so far except "delete your config files, maybe that'll help."

About 8 months ago, I made a model that had about 100,000 polys in it (I was having fun with the subdivide tool) and Lightwave didn't like that. It crashed. That model became unusable because LW crashed every time I opened it. OK, I guess I just demanded too much from my system... it happens. Then it continued crashing no matter what object I was working on. The crashes would become more and more frequent until I barely had time to do anything (5 minutes, max; sometimes 10 seconds) after I opened the model and before Modeler crashed.

I upgraded my BIOS to solve some other system problems. It solved ALL the other system problems, but not Lightwave crashing.

I found my config files in 5 different places, so I deleted them and it helped for an hour or so, but then crashing started again. I re-installed Lightwave. That helped for an hour or so and then it started crashing again. I UNINSTALLED Lightwave, and re-installed it... same thing.

Now it's worse, Win doesn't even report "Lightwave has encountered a problem and needs to close," anymore; no, it just vanishes. No Windows halt warning, no crash indication, the process just ceases to run.

There's no specific state that triggers any of these crashes, it's fairly random as to what I'm doing when it happens, but it's very frequent. Often, every 5-7 minutes. Modeler does it, Layout does it. 8.3 did it and when I upgraded to 8.5, it did it too. It happens with big models (50,000+) and with small models (<500), sometimes even brand new, blank Modeler scenes. It does it with lwo files, scene files, and imported obj files. It does it with legacy lwo and scene files that I created with it a long time ago, and it does it with brand new lwo and scene files. The only thing that seems to prevent it from crashing is doing nothing at all. I can leave it running for a long time without touching it, even with a very large model loaded, and it won't crash. No other problems with any other aspect of my machine. Nothing else ever crashes.

This is becoming more and more frustrating. I love Lightwave, and it's exactly what I need for my job, but I can't even keep it running for 5 minutes.

Thanks for any suggestions you may have.

I'm running a 4 year-old system:
WinXP 32-bit SP3
AMD Athlon dual core 2.8 GHz (recent drivers)
3GB PC3200 RAM
GeForce 8800 GS with Nov '08 drivers (v. 180.xx)
A8N-SLI Deluxe (BIOS rev 1011)

Sensei
12-19-2008, 10:48 AM
Now it's worse, Win doesn't even report "Lightwave has encountered a problem and needs to close," anymore; no, it just vanishes. No Windows halt warning, no crash indication, the process just ceases to run.


Usually quitting without any warning is sign of out of cpu stack space. Default Windows stack size is 1 MB per thread. But if application uses recursion heavily it will cause such shutdown. DLL's loaded to application space are also increasing stack usage.

That's weird that deleting configs help for 1 hour or so... It could be good way to check what is going on.. Maybe delete them, open Modeler and Layout, quit them, and set config file's read-only attribute, and see whether not allowing LW to overwriting them will help..

Other ideas: pull out memory, push them again.. Replace by some spare one.. Don't use multiple memory cards, just one at a time..
Replace gfx card by some spare one and check whether crashes still exist..

Andrew March
12-19-2008, 10:48 AM
Is your machine overheating by any chance?

biliousfrog
12-19-2008, 12:21 PM
check the hub's autosave, is it set to every 5 minutes?

I can't use save project in 9.5 because it crashes, perhaps it's a similar problem.

hurleyman
12-19-2008, 01:00 PM
Sensei: That's probably the most interesting suggestion that I've heard so far. I can certainly see LW using lots of recursion. Unfortunately, this doesn't address the previous crashes that did involve Win reporting. It also seems unlikely that this would be a rare problem. CPU stacks tend to be very similar, especially among the same CPU. It seems unlikely that I'm having a CPU stack overflow, but no other Athlon dual cores are reporting it. I'll certainly have to take a look.

I've re-seated the RAM at least a dozen times in the last month, so I'm sure that's not contributing anything. I was having some trouble with Win seeing all of my RAM, but that was solved by a BIOS update. Now it sees everything. I also tested each stick of RAM separately, so I doubt it's a bad stick.

I'll have to give the GPU idea a shot. I really hate to, just cuz that's an expensive problem to fix, but I do have a spare GeForce 650(?) lying around somewhere.

Mr March: That was one of my first ideas too. I've added a few fans and monitored the temp, but the CPU never goes above 50 C (42 is typical, max of 70 for my CPU) and the chipset runs at 32 C almost all the time. I don't know about the RAM, but the RAM came with heat-sinks, so I doubt they're getting too hot.

Biliousfrog: That's a very good possibility. I've tried running both Modeler and Layout with the -0 switch (to disable Hub), but that didn't change anything either. I can't guarantee that Hub isn't doing something squirrelly in the background.

Again, I think the most telling aspect is that deleting the config files helps for a time. I'll have to try making them read-only. That sounds like a plausible option. There's just no telling what that's going to do or what problem that would indicate.

Thanks for your help, guys. This is the biggest response that I've gotten so far.

Sensei
12-19-2008, 01:07 PM
I can certainly see LW using lots of recursion.In ray-tracing yes (that's why Render Globals > Ray Recursion Limit option is necessary), but in Modeler's tools it's used very rarely..

CPU stack size doesn't depend on used CPU - it's completely operating system thing. Maybe you mixed it with CPU cache size L1/L2/L3. That's completely different thing..

hurleyman
12-19-2008, 02:41 PM
You're right, I was confusing the CPU cache...

I just ran LW for about 45 minutes with no crashes after I deleted the config files, opened and closed Modeler, opened and closed Layout, and then set all the config files to read-only. But then LW crashed again. This is becoming frustrating...

Sensei
12-19-2008, 02:46 PM
Try different approach - restart computer, delete cfg files, open both Layout/Modeler and quit them immediately, so config files are written on disk. Copy them to other backup directory. Then start working as usual. If crash happens, copy configs from backup directory to original location. See, if you can work again for another hour or so, or crashes are instant. Compare times when config files are written (print screen with them or so).

jasonwestmas
12-19-2008, 05:08 PM
Is your machine overheating by any chance?

I had a overheating problem with my cpu once when rendering (I think), but that just froze my computer, it didn't cause anything to crash.

hurleyman
12-20-2008, 03:48 PM
Thanks for the ideas. I'll have to see what the config files do... or don't do. Stand by for reporting...

hurleyman
12-30-2008, 03:15 PM
Nope, no difference with the config files. Deleting them doesn't even help anymore. I deleted them, created them, moved them, and replaced them. It still crashes. No error reporting, it just stops.

UnCommonGrafx
12-31-2008, 11:57 AM
If it's only crashing for you with lw running, particularly after renders, then it more than likely is a heat issue or something along that line.

I've had a machine do this. Ended up being that one of the cpus had gone belly-up: it could handle word and other lite duty work but Lw was giving it The Flashes. Ended up, it could run a little home server but not lw.

Based on what you've said, the resolution to this is going to be some new hardware. In some capacity... you will end up getting to contribute as a consumer to the economic hardship we are at present experiencing. :)

hurleyman
01-24-2009, 04:23 PM
Unfortunately, my symptoms are not after rendering. I also run Doom 3, Half-life2, and others at full graphics with no problems.

I just got a suggestion from Newtek support that I try installing it on a new (different) user account. Still does the same thing on the new user account.

Sensei
01-24-2009, 07:54 PM
3d games barely use cpu to 100%, watch Task Manager cpu usage statistics while playing..
So, I would opt for cpu overheating problem (change cpu and/or cooler for f.e. friend's cpu for a while to see whether it's still crashing), memory problem (same advice as above)..

On mine laptop dual-core 2.0 ghz, Counter Strike: Source is taking 80% of time of single core..

hurleyman
01-25-2009, 11:53 AM
Again, the crashes don't happen during render, only during modeling/animation. I find it hard to believe that Layout is using 100% of my CPU without rendering. Additionally, the whole computer doesn't crash, it just closes Layout without any prompt or warning (a normal close prompts "are you sure?" the crash does not). On top of that, the crash happens less than 15 seconds after I load a scene, regardless of what I'm doing.

I have recently come into possession of a Freezer 64 Pro that might fit on my socket. I'm definitely going to try that.

hurleyman
01-25-2009, 11:57 AM
I'm considering building a new system. Newtek sysreqs recommend Opteron over Athlon. Any suggestions on what processor to go with? I've been looking at the Phenom. I'd probably just get a new mobo, CPU and RAM (DDR to DDR2) and get everything else from my current system.

Ideally, I'd like LW 8.5 to run on the system I've got, so please keep those suggestions coming too.

Thanks for all the help so far.