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cresshead
12-01-2008, 10:19 AM
was told this afternoon i'm being made redundant...ho hum!
just before my b day and xmas a few weeks away and on the verge of a massive resession!

couldn't get any 'better' could it!

this is the 4th time i've been made redundant since 1999.

...surpose i'll have to 'play' more in 3d then!

cresshead
12-01-2008, 12:08 PM
yeah, less than 'ideal' really...but ahh what the heck, i see it as leaving a rut of sorts..:D

if i'm right, i may have enough cash to not HAVE to look for work til tail end of next summer :D..i'll have to have alook into my bank accounts and check i'm not dreaming about that mind you..and it'l be tight...but i did this in 2007..i took 10 months off and did a bit of freelance work here n there...surpose could be a good time to look at those 'personal projects' i'd always wanted to have abash at!

maybe by august the resession would have bottomed out..

good job i hadn't bought the electronic drum kit, new digital camera and a new imac and upgrade from toon boom to animate!...phew!:thumbsup:

adamredwoods
12-01-2008, 02:30 PM
I guess you're the third one here now? :(
We should start an unemployed thread.

shrox
12-01-2008, 04:05 PM
Is there a Lightwave shelter for displaced (underappreciated really...) artists?

cresshead
12-01-2008, 05:16 PM
Is there a Lightwave shelter for displaced (underappreciated really...) artists?

maybe the next speed modeling challenge item?:D


as long as there's cat food everything's 'fine'!

Matt
12-01-2008, 05:22 PM
Man this makes angry. All those rich bankers who caused this disaster can quite happily live of their last million pound "bonus", while the rest of the world suffers.

Hope you find something soon Cresshead.

Silkrooster
12-01-2008, 05:28 PM
I wish you all luck in finding your next source of income.
Silk

adamredwoods
12-01-2008, 06:23 PM
Well, once the numbers increase, all the unemployed can get together and make a Lightwave short. Use it as a calling card for new business.

colkai
12-02-2008, 04:35 AM
was told this afternoon i'm being made redundant...ho hum!
just before my b day and xmas a few weeks away and on the verge of a massive resession!

couldn't get any 'better' could it!

this is the 4th time i've been made redundant since 1999.

...surpose i'll have to 'play' more in 3d then!

Bummer man - a few years ago I was wishing I was working elsewhere, now, I'm very grateful to be where I am with, for this day and age, a fair amount of job security. Hope things don't stay down too long for you!

DiedonD
12-02-2008, 04:53 AM
Bummer man - a few years ago I was wishing I was working elsewhere, now, I'm very grateful to be where I am with, for this day and age, a fair amount of job security. Hope things don't stay down too long for you!

Having a secure job, contrary what it may seem to the present global situation conditions, isnt all that much gloomy Collin I think.

Yes we have jobs, but we arent doing what we were suppose to! And we are loosing time form our lives spenting energy in time in other areas (like jobs), instead of having to use it to somewhere where we want to choose!

I admire artists who stick to working what they do best, and what is their identity, regardless of no income! Why? Cause they are spending the time as they were suppose to! While we are artists who sell skills for other means really!

They use skills to gain income, and gain skills to gain even more income. Us we have other areas of incomes and use the remaining scraps of time to gain skills thinking that they will provide income one day!

Surely these insecure times will pass. And theyll get an income again. They may get an income in the future and get to live as they want and afford it!

Can we with secure jobs, choose to do what we want, to the risk of loosing what we have, and enjoy living by doing what we choose to?

colkai
12-02-2008, 05:56 AM
I have a roof over my head, food in the fridge and that'll do me. It's not fun doing what you love when you're facing eviction and hunger. I've been close to losing my home in the past, never again.
This job allows me the money to do LW in my spare time and pursue my love of birds of prey and the odd bottle of fine single malt, what's so bad about that? ;)

Riff_Masteroff
12-02-2008, 07:56 AM
Like Matt, I am also angry. Or at least quite irritated.

Those involved in the financial system would have 'popular opinion' believe that the collapse has been caused by greed and poor judgment. The 'talent' (Sec. Henry Paulson's word) would continue onwards and do better the next time with lessons learned.

Hah! I listen and read quite intently (CSPAN, PBS & The Washington Post) and now I am of the opinion that (definitely) criminal fraud and maybe bribery & pyramid scheming was involved everywheres and deep within our private financial institutions. Our times are not for protectionist policy by the Department of Justice (leave it not prosecuted, we the people are stupid and will forget all in few weeks).

For representative democracies, based on a fair set of rules (constitution and law), Justice must be blind! That is white collar people should be liable for criminal activity. To reset our governments so that they continue to be viable over the course of centuries a great many, formerly untouchable, must be put in the clink. That is to spend quality time in a federal prison.

In a LightWave forum am I far off topic? Your careers are dependent not only on your developed skills and art but also on an environment that enables such to be.

Riff

biliousfrog
12-02-2008, 08:17 AM
Sorry to hear that fella.

I'll send you a PM

virtualcomposer
12-02-2008, 08:46 AM
yes and who's left to pick up the peaces? All of us. We're suffering because of their greed. They'll walk away with their millions while we walk away perhaps without a meal in our stomach due to lack of work that they caused.

jaxtone
12-02-2008, 09:56 AM
So sorry to hear what you just experienced. Just before X-mas things like that are hard to bare.

I live in Sweden and can tell that this is really a global problem though thousands of people are being sacked each week now. Thinking of their families and kids and believe its gonna be hard.

I have a background in rock ´n roll music and have been running my own company more or less since 1986 so I know whats it like to feed them kids with cold porridge. But as an old man I also learnt that these financial crisis never come without a reason. As always when you want to find the real truth in politics and finances, follow the money! But this is of course not a suggestion any good for your hard situation, just some deep thoughts since a few of you raised your minds against the puppets on the money market of raw globalism.

biliousfrog
12-02-2008, 10:21 AM
We're just going through a 'phase', it seems quite obvious who is to blame but it doesn't help the situation to point the finger or dwell on it. It's that fight or flight mentality that will determine how many of us will cope even though we can't predict what will happen in a week, month or year.

As an example, I've seen the same stock images used over and over to represent 'credit' and 'crash'. Mostly, they're pretty awful but I bet someone is reaping the benefits of knocking up some 5 minute illustrations after watching the news.

Some companies are cutting back, tightening their belts and trying to do everything in-house, usually with disasterous results. The receptionist is suddenly a graphic designer and head of marketing...the resulting advertising destroys the company image and they lose trade. Other companies are seeing the benefit of quality advertising. Rather than cutting back they're spending more wisely and lots of smaller businesses are using professionals for the first time. An agency that I work with has lost a few clients but gained loads of new, smaller ones and is busier than ever.

Most companies have become complacent. We all need to work a little smarter and look for new opportunities rather than depend on the things we're used to. Unfortunately that's going to mean brushing up on all the dull stuff because creativity and artestry are no longer the most important things in an artists toolset.

cresshead
12-02-2008, 10:24 AM
i think i learned quite abit when i had my first redundancy back in 1999...i've never had a bank loan since then and a few years ago [after redundancy number 2] i zero'd my credit cards..i still have them in case of emergency but have yet to put a single penny on them
in the last 5 years so they remain 'at zero'...everything i buy is cause i have the cash for it in the bank...i've already earned it..the only 'loan' i have is my mortgage.

if more people operated like that we wouldn't be in this mess eh?

i'll have a look at that P.M. too....

ted
12-02-2008, 10:54 AM
I'm sorry to hear that Cresshead.
Goes to show, there is always uncertainty in our lives. May your luck improve and may you find comfort in your talents.
Things always turn around. The harder you work at it, the quicker it will improve. Best of luck!

Andyjaggy
12-02-2008, 11:39 AM
Sorry to hear it. Be glad you aren't loaded down with debt, your good decisions and financial responsibility now suddenly seem worth it eh. :) Hope you find something soon.

tyrot
12-02-2008, 01:38 PM
dear cress

damn that s a bad one...at least you ll have really more time to play 3D ...write to forums...etc etc...

i also lost lots of clients..because they lost their own clients...and my real fear is ....

this is just a beginning...

I hope newtek is doing fine....

best

Anti-Distinctly
12-02-2008, 02:29 PM
i think i learned quite abit when i had my first redundancy back in 1999...i've never had a bank loan since then and a few years ago [after redundancy number 2] i zero'd my credit cards..i still have them in case of emergency but have yet to put a single penny on them
in the last 5 years so they remain 'at zero'...everything i buy is cause i have the cash for it in the bank...i've already earned it..the only 'loan' i have is my mortgage.

if more people operated like that we wouldn't be in this mess eh?

i'll have a look at that P.M. too....

This is my practice too. In fact, I've always found it very odd that people use credit at all. A few rare circumstances it's understandable, but generally it bewilders me why people think it's a good idea to pay more for something than it's worth.
It's quite a simple sum. If something costs more money than you have...then you can't afford to have it.

biliousfrog
12-02-2008, 02:40 PM
This sketch just about sums it up: http://consumerist.com/consumer/clips/snl-skit-dont-buy-stuff-you-cant-afford-252491.php

akademus
12-02-2008, 02:47 PM
Sorry to hear that, mate.

It is a funny feeling to be made redundant, one can feel like an old robot no longer necessary. Bad for self esteem!

One other good practice, especially for us artists working in this turbulent industry is to have another side job (freelance or part time), which will hold you on surface until you get a new full time job. Another good practice, aside from not being in credit card debts is to always have four monthly salaries on an account which you cannot access using cards. That savings may save you until you get a new gig and that can take months, this one is from personal experience.

I have one steady full time job now, one part time (12 hours a week) lecturing at university and one overseas occasional. I don't sleep much, but I'll guess I'l make it through the next year, which is supposedly to be a hard recession.

I'm just afraid we'll see more and more cases like this, unfortunately.

I wish you best, mate.

jin choung
12-02-2008, 03:55 PM
It's quite a simple sum. If something costs more money than you have...then you can't afford to have it.

problem is, many people are literally LIVING on credit. they supplement their income with credit in order to pay for necessities.

it is my contention that the credit has been the OPIATE FOR THE MASSES. it's the thing that keeps people from realizing JUST HOW POOR THEY REALLY ARE.

at the poorest levels, it allows people to eat. at higher levels, it lets low income people feel like they're living middle income, etc.

it's one of the things that explains that 2% controlling more wealth than the rest and everyone is just peachy with that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

but the really really really INSIDIOUS thing is that our economy is ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT on consumer spending....

and there is such a ridiculous, unaddressed ambivalence on news shows and cnn and such.

everyone agrees that living on credit is bad but everyone is lamenting that people aren't spending on what they can't afford and LAMENTING THAT CREDIT IS NOT BEING EXTENDED to proliferate more irresponsible spending!

the system DEMANDS THAT WE SPEND!

(and this is next btw, the implosion of the consumer credit market [not just mortgages]).

it is a ridiculous house of cards and i want the architects trotted out and crucified when the sh1t really hits the fan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

p.s. sorry about your hit cress... losing a job and then having to live in limbo and then looking for another job is always at best an inconvenient period. alas, as a 3d guy, that's all i've ever known... : )

what line of work are you in btw?

jin

Darth Mole
12-02-2008, 04:08 PM
cresshead, whereabouts are you in the UK?

Andyjaggy
12-02-2008, 04:20 PM
It's true without credit a lot of families would not be able to eat.

Somewhere we went from it being our duty to save and be financially conservative to spending every dime we make and then some. And now the government is trying to fix debt with more debt. I just don't see how this is going to end happily. I see it getting much worse before it gets any better.

But until I see every person around me getting rid of their satellite dish, premium cable, fiber optic internet, and large ludicrous 50k SUV's I won't feel too bad for them. Funny how people will give up eating before they give up cable.

Larry_g1s
12-02-2008, 04:23 PM
i think i learned quite abit when i had my first redundancy back in 1999...i've never had a bank loan since then and a few years ago [after redundancy number 2] i zero'd my credit cards..i still have them in case of emergency but have yet to put a single penny on them
in the last 5 years so they remain 'at zero'...everything i buy is cause i have the cash for it in the bank...i've already earned it..the only 'loan' i have is my mortgage.

if more people operated like that we wouldn't be in this mess eh?

i'll have a look at that P.M. too....Sorry to hear it cresshead. This is very very wisdom and practice.


This sketch just about sums it up: http://consumerist.com/consumer/clips/snl-skit-dont-buy-stuff-you-cant-afford-252491.phpLove that sketch. It's so true, yet many of us seldom do it.

Anti-Distinctly
12-02-2008, 05:12 PM
problem is, many people are literally LIVING on credit. they supplement their income with credit in order to pay for necessities.

it is my contention that the credit has been the OPIATE FOR THE MASSES. it's the thing that keeps people from realizing JUST HOW POOR THEY REALLY ARE.

at the poorest levels, it allows people to eat. at higher levels, it lets low income people feel like they're living middle income, etc.

it's one of the things that explains that 2% controlling more wealth than the rest and everyone is just peachy with that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

but the really really really INSIDIOUS thing is that our economy is ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT on consumer spending....

and there is such a ridiculous, unaddressed ambivalence on news shows and cnn and such.

everyone agrees that living on credit is bad but everyone is lamenting that people aren't spending on what they can't afford and LAMENTING THAT CREDIT IS NOT BEING EXTENDED to proliferate more irresponsible spending!

the system DEMANDS THAT WE SPEND!

(and this is next btw, the implosion of the consumer credit market [not just mortgages]).

it is a ridiculous house of cards and i want the architects trotted out and crucified when the sh1t really hits the fan.


Ah Jin, saw your post quoting mine and just knew I'd disagree, as we tend to on many things (well, mainly Blender :P) - but not today.
I find capitalism very peculiar. Or perhaps this is an issue with the so-called free market being not so free (i.e. what's the point in a free market when things like banks cannot be allowed to fail? That's not the free market paradigm as I understand it).
Then again, I know sod all about economics.

jin choung
12-02-2008, 06:20 PM
I find capitalism very peculiar. Or perhaps this is an issue with the so-called free market being not so free (i.e. what's the point in a free market when things like banks cannot be allowed to fail? That's not the free market paradigm as I understand it).

yup, we're in complete agreement here.

if you're big enough evidently, if you win, you win! if you lose, we won't let you lose.

just gotta figure out how to get big enough so that they won't let me fail.
---------------------------------------------
until then, these bailouts are lovely slices of STFU to all the freemarketeer cheerleaders.

they can open their pie holes again when we actually let gigantic institutions fail and we're better for it.

until then... haha (channeling nelson)

jin

p.s. i really really really hope that there are michiganites that were screaming bloody murder and SOCIALISM at obama who are desperately clinging to the hopes of a car industry bailout now.

once again - haha.

jin choung
12-02-2008, 06:37 PM
Somewhere we went from it being our duty to save and be financially conservative to spending every dime we make and then some. And now the government is trying to fix debt with more debt. I just don't see how this is going to end happily. I see it getting much worse before it gets any better.

most times, the media almost makes it seem like it is your DUTY to spend. things like "consumer confidence numbers", "holiday spending reports", etc.

(this is also why the trickle down only approach is bullsh1t. the entire system is UTTERLY DEPENDENT on a healthy consumer. some say it's all about producers or the money men at the top who creates jobs but that's ludicrous - with no people at the bottom to consume, there would be no ability to create jobs. it is a SYMBIOTIC SYSTEM and for anyone who understands what that means, a focus on one entity alone is idiotic.)

and if people actually ended up living responsibly and ENTIRELY WITHIN THEIR MEANS, we would be DOOMED.

it's very much a pyramid scheme. the system works as long as there is ONE MORE SUCKER to rope in. if at any point, the debt can't be passed on, it's a game of musical chairs and we realize there's not enough seats for everyone - the money isn't worth the paper it's printed on. that is the horrific realization that's dawning.

anyway, for those interested in bringing back crucifixion for the wall st. geniuses that got us here, i'll be starting a petition soon.

jin

wacom
12-02-2008, 06:57 PM
Sorry to hear that Cress! Best of luck to you and your family (that includes the animals).

There are many reasons for this downturn, but you can be certain that the sucking sound you hear is all around the world!

Oddly enough it seems those countries with people who remember what it's like to live for quite a stretch on little or nothing (like in the UK) are probably best poised to handle this best.

Time to get a bit of a green thumb!

stevmjon
12-02-2008, 07:30 PM
to cresshead

it's not news anyone would like to hear before christmas.

hope you bounce back quickly.

stevmjon

p.s. someone at my work was given notice to leave two days ago.

shrox
12-02-2008, 07:34 PM
I think we who are being displaced should pool our money, rent a big place with residential/commercial zoning, all move in and start working on being a "Banned From The Ranch" type studio.

Dexter2999
12-02-2008, 09:38 PM
Hey Cress,

Sorry to hear about the "redundancy". Was there any offer for retraining/transfer?
I just got downsized myself. Luckily I still have a job, just not doing what I enjoy.

I hope something turns up for you quickly.

SuperNova32
12-03-2008, 12:09 AM
My god, everywhere i turn someone's lost their job and are now sitting at home wondering what to do. It makes me feel so sad about the world but then again i wonder if all the time we spend working and trying to make our bosses happy is even worth it? I think we'd all be better off if we just went out and did something on our own and do what we want when we want. i move we start our own animation company who's with me?

MooseDog
12-03-2008, 09:51 AM
knock on wood, knock on wood, knock on wood...but where i live this contraction mostly affects us through the dire news reports. Vermont is a very fiscally conservative state, and what with all our mountains and snow, the out-of-control developers and bankers really couldn't set-up the presence here they did elsewhere.

this is (http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom), to date, the best article i've found on the cause of this mess. and i'll also throw all my weight behind the thought that these guys are, and should be held to be criminally negligent.

best wishes to you cresshead, being fired sux. but i have the impression that it has not, as can easily happen, dealt you any debilitating psychological hits. continued success!

flakester
12-03-2008, 10:04 AM
was told this afternoon i'm being made redundant...ho hum!
just before my b day and xmas a few weeks away and on the verge of a massive resession!

couldn't get any 'better' could it!

this is the 4th time i've been made redundant since 1999.

...surpose i'll have to 'play' more in 3d then!


Dang. Sorry to hear that fella.
The current market circumstance is teh suxx0rs.

flakester.

cresshead
12-03-2008, 11:35 AM
hey thanks for the kind words on this 'event'..i'm not going to let this bog me down...
sure i need to find some income [ala>> new job] but i have a few things i want to do
whilst looking...not gonna be sitting next to my letterbox and email in box hovering over my mobi phone waiting for 'that call' [interview] all next year for sure!

going to start work on a children's book using lightwave/zbrush/painter x...just been down the local library and picked up 9 books to look at for ideas/reference..i'm still "at work" btw..i have tomorrow [thursday] and tuesday the 16th december left to do...i booked most of december off as a holiday as i saved up my holiday all year...only to be told bye bye monday dec 1st!...

anyhow it's almost history...freedom to do what i want for a change...just need to keep motivated...when/if i struggle on modeling a character i'll switch to texture painting and 2d stuff or make some background objects for the books/web animations...just going to keep busy doing 3d until the next 'j.o.b.' arrives.

will be making a start at the weekend as soon as i get a project framework done and dusted to start building all the assets i'll need...sorta like a freelance project but it'll be 'all mine!'

been looking over on www.lulu.com to price up self publishing a few books to take around and use as a 'show reel' of sorts...

thanks everyone...the postings you made have got me in the mood to get on with stuff and make 2009 a challenging year...i've been adding tutorial dvd's from digital tutors on zbrush, max and one on toon boom in the last few months so my knowledge has grown on character modeling i hope..just need some hand on time to put all that into practice!

...i'll post stuff up when i get started...it'll be using all sorts...lightwave, zbrush, 3dsmax painterx , toon boom studio whatever makes it simpler!

Andyjaggy
12-03-2008, 11:47 AM
You can learn a ton in a year if you stay motivated, I'm almost jealous. :) Look forward to seeing some work.

Larry_g1s
12-03-2008, 12:11 PM
going to start work on a children's book using lightwave/zbrush/painter x...just been down the local library and picked up 9 books to look at for ideas/reference..i'm still "at work" btw..i have tomorrow [thursday] and tuesday the 16th december left to do...i booked most of december off as a holiday as i saved up my holiday all year...only to be told bye bye monday dec 1st!...

anyhow it's almost history...freedom to do what i want for a change...just need to keep motivated...when/if i struggle on modeling a character i'll switch to texture painting and 2d stuff or make some background objects for the books/web animations...just going to keep busy doing 3d until the next 'j.o.b.' arrives.I really like you're attitude, and no doubt your wise financial planning plays a role in that. A children's book is something I've often thought of too.

hrgiger
12-03-2008, 03:48 PM
Best of luck to you cresshead.

DiedonD
12-04-2008, 12:24 AM
I have a roof over my head, food in the fridge and that'll do me. It's not fun doing what you love when you're facing eviction and hunger. I've been close to losing my home in the past, never again.
This job allows me the money to do LW in my spare time and pursue my love of birds of prey and the odd bottle of fine single malt, what's so bad about that? ;)

Oh nothing wrong with it buddy :) . In the list of priorities of beeing selfulfilled, first come the basic needs, then security, then love and other issues like art anyway, by me.

But Im saying, life time passes by without return. And when the judgemnet day comes, God will ask you ' HOW MUCH TIME DID YOU SPEND DOING ART COLLIN! AND DONT GIVE ME THAT NO TIME EXCUSE NEITHER, I HEAR IT EVERY DAY!!!'

And you and me for instance, since we have other jobs to deal with, that sustain us, it drains time from us man. Time which we couldve used for LW for instance!

When was the last time you had 8 full hours in LW? Its been months for me :thumbsdow . And am getting horny, but dont want to get into it anymore without having enough time to work in it in peace, so am loosing even more time here... :thumbsdow

DiedonD
12-04-2008, 12:32 AM
I think we who are being displaced should pool our money, rent a big place with residential/commercial zoning, all move in and start working on being a "Banned From The Ranch" type studio.

Exactly, and the best place to open up such aye place would be some secure country in development, where taxes are more easily sustainable, and life expenses are way lower, rent also, where you could work through the internet, and the joint task should come up with undeniably great art to sell of, and get to live like kings.

Now from a no job to a king might seem like a too harsh steep upwards, but ask some of your fellow countryman, and you can see that it is possible.

colkai
12-04-2008, 02:49 AM
But Im saying, life time passes by without return. And when the judgemnet day comes, God will ask you ' HOW MUCH TIME DID YOU SPEND DOING ART COLLIN! AND DONT GIVE ME THAT NO TIME EXCUSE NEITHER, I HEAR IT EVERY DAY!!!'

Ahh well, Odin won't hassle me with that I'm sure, be more interested in if I had lived well. :p If I die tomorrow, I know I made a difference, there are raptors alive right now due to my efforts, flying free, hunting well. I have left my footprint in the sand, which to be honest, I never expected to. :)

LW art takes place alongside other things for me, music first and foremost, (I shall go to the torch with my arms clasped around my beloved Destroyer), then is my work for the wildlife centre, then LW so all things considered, I guess I should be amazed I get any LW done hehe.





Living well is the best revenge, so give 'em hell! :D

biliousfrog
12-04-2008, 07:12 AM
I shall go to the torch with my arms clasped around my beloved Destroyer


haha...I had a lipstick pink destroyer bass for a bit, bloody 'orrible thing:lol:

woot, smiley's are back!:rock:

cresshead
12-04-2008, 09:49 AM
haha...I had a lipstick pink destroyer bass for a bit, bloody 'orrible thing:lol:

woot, smiley's are back!:rock:

now see..if your a synth player like me you do don't get the luxury of having bad decisions when looking at new synths..you don't get lipstick coloured, glitter encrusted, airbrushed naked moles and hand crafted nonsense to choose from...you get a yamaha, korg or roland black plastic box...and you'll like it!:D

colkai
12-04-2008, 09:51 AM
haha...I had a lipstick pink destroyer bass for a bit, bloody 'orrible thing:lol:

woot, smiley's are back!:rock:

Ahh, this beauty is a custom hand-built one, from Gordon Whittam of Gordon-Smith / Gordy guitar fame. :)
Love it to bits, over 25 years old and rock solid. :D

cresshead
12-05-2008, 12:55 PM
did you see what Jeremy Clarkson had to say...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7766057.stm

also today a friend of mine's partner has been issued with redundancy notice effective as of 21december and her ex husband's team of 21 will be cut to 14 in jan 2009...

then we get Honda pulling out of F1 today...

and this thing hasn't even started yet...wait till christmas is over with and we see woolworths go and mfi go [uk] and then maybe all 3 giant car firms go in the u.s.a.

....2009 is going to be 'interesting'!

jin choung
12-05-2008, 01:57 PM
yup,

you're definitely not alone. the numbers for november's unemployment numbers came in this morning in the states and it's above 500,000... loss of jobs... in that month... ??

wow...

the analyst on the radio - expert guy - ended up saying that the numbers were "almost indescribably bad"... had to laugh at that....

jin

JamesCurtis
12-05-2008, 10:21 PM
I've been a freelancer for the better part of 25 years. I've had a few part time jobs as fill ins when things got tight.

I still have work on several projects for my main client [for a trade show in early 2009] and have two very small [2 day] anim projects that I was contacted on [from a 2 year old contact] that needs some stuff, so I may be okay for the next several months.

I also just did some extensive Photoshop retouching yesterday on 2 images for a local video production company which paid fairly well for the 3 hours of work needed.

I'm sure I'm going to need to "shake the bushes" as it were, to drum up more work and maybe even find another PT job doing something.

I also have had a Childrens Book idea that I've wanted to work on [seems kinda popular]. The story was originally conceived back when I was in College.

One thing's for sure, I'll not give up easily!!

AbnRanger
12-06-2008, 04:11 AM
And just think about it....all those greedy investors (corporations and individual investors) started this freefall trying to pile on the "Get Rich Quick" train regarding the skyrocketing cost of oil. They wanted to get in while the getting was good, and in the process caused massive economic damage across the globe.

That's why, even as a conservative, I'm with the Eco-Crowd....to get off the addiction to oil, and stop being at risk of being held hostage, economically or security-wise.
What I think Obama and Congress needs to do is seize upon the major auto maker's plight (largely self-inflicted), and FORCE them to make a wholesale shift to hybrid-electirc powered vehicles (the sort that can drive 50-100+ miles before the gas engine kicks in to recharge). They should make it mandatory that ALL passenger vehicles be 75% non-reliant on petroleum based fuels in 10yrs...including all but the largest class of pickup trucks (and give them only an additional few years).

To do this, Congress should step in and aid the manufacturers like they have Farmers in the past, with subsidies...subsidizing only the re-tooling of the production infrastructure, so that the automakers can greatly accelerate the change over. It's no small task to re-fit entire production lines and plants, and the automakers have only so much investment resources themselves. That's where the government should step in and lend a hand (only toward the production infrastructure, not the engineering or production of the vehicles themselves).

What would the taxpayers get in return? Rapidily increasing independence on petroleum...which literally puts money back in their their pocket to spend on other commodities, and stabilizes the market worlwide (oil is currently a MAJOR factor in economic volitility or stability) as has been well demonstrated the past few years). Not to mention the environmental benefits. It would also spell a MAJOR boost not only in vehicle sales, but millions of jobs across the across the industry and its supporting industries.
If America gets out in front on this, then it gains a decisive economic and security advantage over countries that still rely heavily on foreign sources of petroleum. The EU and Japan wouldn't be far behind.

It took a few years for oil/gas-price gouging to send the economy into the toilet, and it's likely going to take more than that to bring us out. But stepping in to help the struggling Auto Industry can accelerate our climb out of this hole, and in the process give the finger to the folks who got us into it. :D

meathead
12-06-2008, 09:29 AM
Yeah, I hear you.

I am in the same boat. Recently laid off from the best job I ever had. I saw it coming though, hospital systems piss thru money so fast. Shame, we did so much cool stuff (artistically speaking).

To add to my problems, my local freelance has dried up pretty much too. I am working a lot harder to get work these days...sigh. :bangwall:

shrox
12-06-2008, 09:56 AM
I also have had a Childrens Book idea that I've wanted to work on [seems kinda popular]. The story was originally conceived back when I was in College.

One thing's for sure, I'll not give up easily!!

I have a childrens book ready, all rendered in Lightwave, it's about my dog accidently taking a trip to the Moon.

IMI
12-06-2008, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I hear you.

I am in the same boat. Recently laid off from the best job I ever had. I saw it coming though...

Same here - I was laid off in mid-October and still haven't found a job, and am not likely to anytime soon. However, I *didn't* see it coming. They kept it hidden from us, how bad it actually was in the company. I was sure we had work for a good while to come...

Hang in there shrox - better days ARE coming.

Tom Wood
12-06-2008, 10:38 AM
You architectural pre-viz guys might want to look into the K-12 education specialty firms. Here those architects are still doing quite well, as I suspect they will anywhere there's ongoing population growth.

Dexter2999
12-06-2008, 10:57 AM
And just think about it....all those greedy investors (corporations and individual investors) started this freefall trying to pile on the "Get Rich Quick" train regarding the skyrocketing cost of oil.

I thought this all started because of the collapse of the over inflated real estate market, predatory lending of subprime mortgages, and the packaging and reselling of these high risk loans with a guarantee against default. At least that is why the top three mortage companies went under. It is why AIG went under. And it is why the Fed is closing so many smaller banks.

cresshead
12-06-2008, 11:17 AM
I have a childrens book ready, all rendered in Lightwave, it's about my dog accidently taking a trip to the Moon.

i'm getting my books printed over at lulu.com as they're quite cheap to self publish there...see how they are recieved then look for a publisher if they seem to be popular..and if not..i can re edit/remake without huge costs involved.

stee+cats

IMI
12-06-2008, 11:22 AM
I thought this all started because of the collapse of the over inflated real estate market, predatory lending of subprime mortgages, and the packaging and reselling of these high risk loans with a guarantee against default. At least that is why the top three mortage companies went under. It is why AIG went under. And it is why the Fed is closing so many smaller banks.

You are right about that.
I'm in the Orlando area too - close enough, near Apopka. You probably are aware how incredibly robust our new housing industry here was. Now it's just devastated.

Riff_Masteroff
12-06-2008, 12:13 PM
Quote from Saturday's Washington Post newspaper (Economy page A1 & A6):

"Indeed, the economy is unraveling so fast as to defy analysis through the usual statistical models. Among the phrases found in normally SOBER reports from the nation's TOP economic forcasters yesterday: "god-awful," "wholesale capitulation," "shockingly weak" and "indescribably terrible."

Note that this is from an article and not opinion from their editorial section. Very serious this is. I have more to say about the situation, but it would 'fly' contrary to views expressed by most of those writing in the NT forums.

cresshead
12-06-2008, 02:57 PM
started to rough out my children's book in coreldraw..and i'm struggling to find a perfect font for it!

struggling to find a perfect font for the children's book...

need one with>>
capital i> to have top n bottom horizontal bar and not just look like a lowercase L
capital Q to have a straight line cross not some curvy nonsense!
lower case e to be nice and readable
lowercase a to look more like a O with a tail... abit like the capital Q really...

nearest i have is tahoma for full clarity...except the q is a bit curvy and the lowercase a is annoying! though i can edit this
as a shape or replace with a decent Q and a from another font...

Hmm... ideas?

my thought behind this is how children are taught to write as well as read...

there are some conventions i'd like to stick to in selecting a perfect font...
maybe i'm being too picky!

oh well time for a cuppa!

jaxtone
12-06-2008, 03:38 PM
Creating panic is quite easy for the cartels that owns news and media channels! But haven´t anyone thought about why medias agenda is wrapped with horror and panic for each and every occasion on this planet?

I cannot believe that all these messages about warnings, disasters, epedemics, wind and weather happened by coincidences!

If I turn back time just about 50 years there were also master hurricanes, tidal waves, war, financial desperation and diseases. But I actually never heard a single warning about thunder storms, rain, food or anything like todays insane messaging from the channels that creates the news flow.

So I asked myself, who will earn on having dead scared populations all over the world? Who will profit on our fear? Fear for each others, for ourselfes and even for the nature around us!

Well as said earlier, follow the money!

Who were the biggest share holders of the Tamiflu anti-viral medication that made people jump from roof tops because of the anxiety it merged into their brains?

Who are the biggest share holders in the surveillance cameras that pops up each and everywere?

As an example the lobby-groups in the US are one of the most important door openers for profitable companies that want more power. Power and profit in who´s name and in what interest?

You tell me when there´s a camera stuck up in every cavity of both body and mind! That´s when you say yes or no to this:

http://www.chippet.com

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article1788169.ece

After this is accepted by societies in fear every protest will classify you as a risk behavior for the society! Even if you´re just dissapointed of being redundant, starving or don´t want to follow the warnings of thunder storms or nasty weather!

Hope you got this one right!

glebe digital
12-06-2008, 04:02 PM
I felt there was a big crash coming in 2003, even then the housing/credit bubble seemed unsustainable.....so I packed up my rather good job, liquidated my assets and moved to a small island.........it's taken a lot longer to happen than I thought, and five years of continuing financial madness has only resulted in a much larger collective hangover for everyone.
:grumpy:

I'm lucky to be busy with work, but if big companies like GM start tumbling then we're all going to be affected, no matter what our own rescue plans are.

But on the positive, there's money to be made when markets are in this degree of flux.......if governments start 'spending their way out of recession' then they're gonna need workers......

IMO until we move away from a 'growth-based economy' we are always going to be staring down a barrel, we killed the goose that laid the golden egg a long time ago.

:goodluck:

Tobian
12-06-2008, 05:10 PM
Very sorry to hear about your situation Cresshead, good luck with the new project...

Have you tried looking on http://www.dafont.com/ some very nice free fonts, and it also indexes a lot of the commercial fonts too, so you can find that perfect font! :D

kopperdrake
12-06-2008, 05:16 PM
Cress dude, truly sorry to hear about your news, and at the same time heartened by your attitude - that's the stance that will get people through this to wherever the other side is. If there's anything I can do let me know.

On the topic - we (as a family) felt something would happen to the economy for a few years now, just didn't realise how international it would be. House prices over here have gone from something that cost twice a typical starting salary for a graduate for a small starter home/apartment (£35,000) in 1995, to almost four times that (£120,000) in 2007, where the average starting salary isn't up that much. It doesn't take a genius to see that that couldn't keep happening.

We're paying the price for wanting everything and wanting it now - we've been sold the dream that it's our 'right' to aquire stuff - we think the world owes us something if we've worked hard, so we work hard to get that stuff. We're the snake eating our own tail.

Our grandparents in the UK knew the real meaning to living a full life, those that pulled together through the war and the aftermath and made do. And we poo-poo'd them for being stingy, thinking it quaint that they're happy just to have a cup of tea with a neighbour and a holiday in a caravan in Weston-super-Mare. Truth is they just know what makes a life genuinely good.

I'm an optimist - I believe good will come from this eventually. Another generation will hopefully learn of what's really important in life...food, shelter, friends, family and health. Everything else is just a bunch of cherries on top.

I just feel for the poor buggers who're the generation under me, those that had to buy into the system when it cost the most and racked those debts up - it's disgusting - Jin, I'll be signing that petition to hang the makers of this massive house of cards when you start it. In the meantime I'll be working on the projects that do come in, and when not working I'll be in my vegetable patch learning as much as I can from my father and father-in-law about growing your own veg.

cresshead
12-06-2008, 07:11 PM
cheers kopperdrake!

just roughed out the first book...and i mean 'rough!' in coreldraw..settled on comic sans font for now as that has all the looks/design i want with representing how you'd write out a letter by hand and so 'learn how to write properly'.

now ive got to go off n create 26 3D animals with lightwave/zbrush/max!
will start them tomorrow!....

cresshead
12-06-2008, 07:16 PM
Very sorry to hear about your situation Cresshead, good luck with the new project...

Have you tried looking on http://www.dafont.com/ some very nice free fonts, and it also indexes a lot of the commercial fonts too, so you can find that perfect font! :D

thanks for the link..i'll bookmark it and have a look thru
for now i'll use comic sans as a temp font.

biliousfrog
12-07-2008, 03:38 AM
1001fonts.com

It has a nice preview feature for your own text.

Please don't stick with comic-sans, pleeeeeease!

phil lawson
12-07-2008, 04:50 AM
Make sure that writing this book is something that you really want to do Cress. I've worked for someone who went about getting a childrens book published and there were alot of little things that he never expected to have to pay for when it came to getting it on the likes of Amazon etc.

Now I dont know the exact details, but childrens books need to be verified for type of language. This costs money for it to be official. Toilet humour gets frond apon big time and words like 'fart' might not make it for the likes of 4-6 year old books without having to put a warning on the cover for parents.

Printing costs are quite high, especially if its a full colour book - he got better prices in Europe, but was lucky enough to speck multiple languages to haggle a better price.

Even though he was advertised on local tv and news paper, once the book hit amazon it was only visible for a matter of days without paying more for advertising.

Just a few things I noted while working over the summer a few years ago - sorry to hear about your situation, hope it clears up soon. :)

cresshead
12-07-2008, 05:44 AM
1001fonts.com

It has a nice preview feature for your own text.

Please don't stick with comic-sans, pleeeeeease!
:D yeah i don't like it much either!...but it ticks all the boxes for 'form'
still, the font site has quite a few alternatives so i'll swap for one of those later

cresshead
12-07-2008, 05:51 AM
Make sure that writing this book is something that you really want to do Cress. I've worked for someone who went about getting a childrens book published and there were alot of little things that he never expected to have to pay for when it came to getting it on the likes of Amazon etc.

Now I dont know the exact details, but childrens books need to be verified for type of language. This costs money for it to be official. Toilet humour gets frond apon big time and words like 'fart' might not make it for the likes of 4-6 year old books without having to put a warning on the cover for parents.

Printing costs are quite high, especially if its a full colour book - he got better prices in Europe, but was lucky enough to speck multiple languages to haggle a better price.

Even though he was advertised on local tv and news paper, once the book hit amazon it was only visible for a matter of days without paying more for advertising.

Just a few things I noted while working over the summer a few years ago - sorry to hear about your situation, hope it clears up soon. :)

actually it's more creating than 'writing' as this book is an ABC book..the next is a 123 book and the one after that if all goes to plan is a trad set of stories so they're really picture book's with just word headers in effect rather than me writing from scratch.

as for printing i'll go with www.lulu.com to get some physical books done for a minimum outlay.

what i hope to have at the end is maybe 3 or 4 books done and a website [lulu storefront and my own site]
that supports the books with extras such as flash animations and downloadable extra content such as print out pdf colouring books and an animation or 2...:hey:

but i'm waaay off from that right now.

shrox
12-07-2008, 06:08 AM
Here is the cover for mine. Lightwave with a photoshop watercolor filter.

cresshead
12-07-2008, 06:13 AM
Here is the cover for mine. Lightwave with a photoshop watercolor filter.

well your ahead of me!...my cover is just some text and temp boxes to be replaced with characters!:cat:

re your cover...i'd flip the dog-o-naught to face the other way and position the moon top right, that way the eye goes left to right from the dog to the moon

still that's just my opinion..what do i know!

i'll start a w.i.p. thread on newtek forums onece there's more than text and scribbles to show people!

*Pete*
12-07-2008, 07:59 AM
Same here - I was laid off in mid-October and still haven't found a job, and am not likely to anytime soon. However, I *didn't* see it coming. They kept it hidden from us, how bad it actually was in the company. I was sure we had work for a good while to come...

Hang in there shrox - better days ARE coming.

my company will get rid of 20-25 workers sometime at August 2009, not becouse of the financial crisis though...

we will also work January and February 2-3 days a week and have the remaining days paid by unemployment salaries...this IS becouse of the financial crisis.

our customers are either going out of business or unable to sell the goods we produce thanks to lower demand.

for me its less of a problem, since i will have no problems getting a new job..or even my previous job if i want it, but i do feel sorry for many of my colleques who are not so atractive for employers anymore..too old for that and too young to retire.

i was hoping to keep my job one more year as im taking an education on the side too..but it really doesnt matter much, perhaps its even for the better...

economically ill be well of with or without a job..without ill get 66% of my salary and a good chance of getting the govt to pay for my education too.

my suggestion to all of you who have gotten or will get unemployed..do not waste your time, use it to the fullest either to educate yourself more or in other way to improve yourself.
its not so often we suddenly get so much free time...wanted to have that garage built?, now is the time ;)

*Pete*
12-07-2008, 08:06 AM
But on the positive, there's money to be made when markets are in this degree of flux.......if governments start 'spending their way out of recession' then they're gonna need workers......


so true.

the so called financial crisis is indeed a crisis for many, but it is also a huge opportunity or relief for others.
even if i propablyt will have to find a new job, all in all ill be in a winning situation and better of with the crisis than without it...im sorry to say it, now when so many on these forums are so affected of it, but i have been smiling and waiting for the crisis from the moment i learned of the subprime stuff.

job or no job, im still in a position where i win on this... :D

shrox
12-07-2008, 12:39 PM
well your ahead of me!...my cover is just some text and temp boxes to be replaced with characters!:cat:

re your cover...i'd flip the dog-o-naught to face the other way and position the moon top right, that way the eye goes left to right from the dog to the moon

still that's just my opinion..what do i know!

i'll start a w.i.p. thread on newtek forums onece there's more than text and scribbles to show people!

I did mine three years ago, then I just let it sit. At the time, it was more expensive to self publish.

cresshead
12-07-2008, 03:38 PM
started a wip thread of the first book!
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=792421#post792421

e is for?

The Dommo
12-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Sorry to hear about this, dude. I pretty much am the same with my own personal money as you, only using a credit card when I really have to.

Hope you don't lose motivation. I'd love to take a year out right now!! :D

cresshead
12-08-2008, 10:29 PM
thanks!
O is for????

updated on the wip thread>>
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=792421#post792421

glebe digital
12-09-2008, 04:27 AM
thanks!
O is for????


Octopus? :)

cresshead
12-09-2008, 04:30 AM
Octopus? :)

:DHmm! well was to be my second option if the current character '0' didn;t turn out too well.

cresshead
12-09-2008, 09:08 PM
f is for...frog, fish or fox?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=792421#post792421

jin choung
12-09-2008, 10:30 PM
wow, i sooooooo would have said other words for both 'o' and 'f'.

i think that i'm made for many things in this world.

writing a children's book is NOWHERE near the vicinity of those things i'm made for....

: )

jin

cresshead
12-09-2008, 11:11 PM
yeah choosing animals that are known to young children, are easy to say and also arn't too long a word for them to learn is difficult...octapus was my second choice but has 3 syllabals..... for 'o' but ostrich won out as it's easy and nice to look at and fox was pretty top for 'f' but i also want diversity in the images an a fox pretty much looks like a dog so that ruled out 'fox for 'f' if i choose d for dog!....nightmare!...frog was another close run one if the fish didn't turn out okay...

cresshead
12-10-2008, 07:11 AM
still plugging away modeling!
....w is for?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=792421#post792421

Tobian
12-10-2008, 07:39 AM
Hehe and I was going to say Cockney :devil:

Good luck with your project! :)

shrox
12-10-2008, 09:43 AM
still plugging away modeling!
....w is for?

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=792421#post792421

worm, whale, woman

cresshead
12-10-2008, 11:19 AM
yup...whale!
ohh and R is for?...hint, it eats carrots!

btw this is a link to the wip gallery>>
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=792421#post792421

Chris S. (Fez)
12-10-2008, 02:17 PM
wow, i sooooooo would have said other words for both 'o' and 'f'.

i think that i'm made for many things in this world.

writing a children's book is NOWHERE near the vicinity of those things i'm made for....

: )

jin

I don't know, there might be a market. A risque ABC book might encourage more illiterate adults to "read." Heck, you could do a whole book on the letter B alone.

cresshead
12-10-2008, 02:49 PM
I don't know, there might be a market. A risque ABC book might encourage more illiterate adults to "read." Heck, you could do a whole book on the letter B alone.

you know what you've got an idea there!....a to z of idiots you have to deal with in day to day life!...sorta like the mr men but for adult consumption!

Chris S. (Fez)
12-10-2008, 03:27 PM
you know what you've got an idea there!....a to z of idiots you have to deal with in day to day life!...sorta like the mr men but for adult consumption!

Great idea. An ABC book on the evils of the world. A is for Apathy. B is for Bully. C is for Colliflower... etc. etc.

cresshead
12-16-2008, 02:18 AM
well i'm at work for the last time...last day..not much doing..just twiddling thumbs and browsing the net...counting down the mins!

Stooch
12-16-2008, 02:24 AM
worm, whale, woman

wang.

jin choung
12-16-2008, 02:51 AM
I don't know, there might be a market. A risque ABC book might encourage more illiterate adults to "read." Heck, you could do a whole book on the letter B alone.


mmmmmmm....

B......

auuuuuuuuugggggghhhhhhhhhh.....

jin

p.s. once again, condolences cress....

cresshead
12-16-2008, 05:50 AM
okay ..done n dusted...was sent home as i've done all that needs doing....

flakester
12-16-2008, 08:54 AM
okay ..done n dusted...was sent home as i've done all that needs doing....

Sorry for your situation Cresshead. Hope things improve in 2009.
Did they at least give you a fiver for a pint and a bag of chips on the way?

flakester.

cresshead
12-16-2008, 09:00 AM
Sorry for your situation Cresshead. Hope things improve in 2009.
Did they at least give you a fiver for a pint and a bag of chips on the way?

flakester.

got some okay redundancy pay to tide me over...so my cats won't starve:thumbsup:

cresshead
01-11-2009, 12:15 AM
signed on last week...yuk!...hate the idea of 'handouts'..not signed on since 1999 and that was for 2 weeks and to stand inline with 'chav's who have no intentiuon of working is quite annoying!

still, i see it as getting some of my money back i paid in tax over the last 30years so i don't feel bad about it!

so far no job's around for me, i'm guessing that jan,feb and march will be really lean so i'm not hoping for a cool job to drop in my lap and in the meantime i'm adding to my skills with some zbrushing with that book project and will also be starting to learn maya next week as i bought the 3dbuzz trraining pak ages back but never had the 'time'...well i def 'have the time' now!

later dudes!

steve g

jin choung
01-11-2009, 02:21 AM
holy cow, it's sooooo not a handout. don't know how it's handled in the uk but in the states, it's part of the taxes that are paid by you and the employer.

anyhoo, sorry you're out of work but hopefully you'll be able to spend it as a good bit of downtime and get some fun from your projects.

may worries be far from your head and good luck.

Jin

Oedo 808
01-11-2009, 04:52 AM
Sorry to hear about your hard times cresshead, but jin is right, you've paid for what you're getting, signing on is a great benefit of our modern society.

It's these lay-about scumbags that are the problem, not only to they just take, take ,take while sitting on their arses, they attach a stigma to getting a little help for everyone else.

Good to hear of someone getting it that deserves it :thumbsup:, just don't get too close to those chavs, you don't want all your money going on Lyclear and Derbac-M (for the scabies).

Tobian
01-11-2009, 04:55 AM
I think the indignity in this country is that hard working tax payers are treated exactly the same as never-going-to-work Charvers when you enter into the twilight zone that is the unemployment service! "oh you were the ant and not the Grasshopper, and have some savings? Ok well once you've finished spending those, you can have some money." YAY! :)

shrox
01-11-2009, 11:21 AM
I went on food stamps and assistance some years ago when I first got sick. The agency was very nice, made sure to tell me that I had paid for all these things through taxes. I used their services for about four months.

cresshead
01-11-2009, 02:35 PM
I think the indignity in this country is that hard working tax payers are treated exactly the same as never-going-to-work Charvers when you enter into the twilight zone that is the unemployment service! "oh you were the ant and not the Grasshopper, and have some savings? Ok well once you've finished spending those, you can have some money." YAY! :)

yeah still not sure ifi'll actually get any money...apparently savings don't count against you thesedays..we'll see!....they have my bank statements [have to give latest] so i would not be surprised if i have to wait until i used some of my saving up first!:thumbsdow

Tobian
01-11-2009, 05:11 PM
Well I heard of that happening to a friend of mine quite recently, so be careful, and good luck!

DiedonD
01-12-2009, 01:51 AM
Hey Cress

Shrox is coming from US and finding CG related job in Britain, and youre losing one there!

Aint that odd?!

Furthermore he was looking for artists, why dont you two have a chat man! Or has it been done already!

jin choung
01-12-2009, 02:12 AM
I think the indignity in this country is that hard working tax payers are treated exactly the same as never-going-to-work Charvers when you enter into the twilight zone that is the unemployment service! "oh you were the ant and not the Grasshopper, and have some savings? Ok well once you've finished spending those, you can have some money." YAY! :)

don't know how it works in your country but unemployment in the states is based on EMPLOYMENT. you have to lose your job through no fault of your own. you CANNOT have quit. you cannot have been fired because of incompetence.

exactly the kind of "downsizing" that hard working individuals have absolutely no control over.

and the money you receive is based on taxes you and your employer have paid for.

and so unemployment insurance covers exactly zero "never-going-to-work Charvers".

jin

colkai
01-12-2009, 03:25 AM
Not over here, here, you almost feel they reward the lazy s.o.b's for doing diddly squat whilst you work your ***** off. Feel for ya Cress man, really do.

jin choung
01-12-2009, 04:25 AM
Not over here, here, you almost feel they reward the lazy s.o.b's for doing diddly squat whilst you work your ***** off. Feel for ya Cress man, really do.

well...

you don't have to work you as$ off then, right? what's to stop you from doing what they do? there's nothing stopping you after all....

whenever i hear stuff like this, i can't help but recommend the movie "ferris bueler's day off"... charlie sheen's zen-like advice for ferris' sister is quite illuminating.

also, the plight and fate of a one frank "grimey" grimes comes to mind.

jin

colkai
01-12-2009, 04:43 AM
well...

you don't have to work you as$ off then, right? what's to stop you from doing what they do? there's nothing stopping you after all....
jin

No, nothing,my fault I grant for having some semblance of pride, self-respect and little things like that. I'm weird like that. :devil:

jin choung
01-12-2009, 04:51 AM
No, nothing,my fault I grant for having some semblance of pride, self-respect and little things like that. I'm weird like that. :devil:

that's the point. you get something out of it. you do what you do because you want to. it's not like he's living the good life while you're being tortured. if you think he's getting the better end of the stick, you could do it too. but you choose not to.

again, ferris bueler... good movie.

jin

colkai
01-12-2009, 07:31 AM
I don't deny anyone a good life, but hey, at least make an effort to put something in instead of just taking out.
I mean, by that reckoning, there is no reason why I shouldn't deal drugs to get more money and use only pirated software to save money. Others do it, it works for them, so why not? It's a hollow argument.

jin choung
01-12-2009, 11:23 AM
It's a hollow argument.

not really.

the point is simply that if you think they're living the good life, you could do it too. but you don't. and out of your own choice. you don't really think they have it so good. you don't really think you have it so bad.

you feel that there are deficits of self respect, character and criminality that they must suffer that you don't and choose not to.

so what i'm saying rings "hollow" is the comparison of "i have to work like a dog while they sip champagne and live the good life".

whatever you suffer, you choose it. you could choose not. especially if you see others choose not.

jin