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biliousfrog
11-28-2008, 05:14 AM
Hi all,

I'm just throwing this out there to see how popular it would be and whether anyone would be interested.

I've got a couple of personal projects that I can't ever see me completing because of the over-whelming amount of work and miniscule amount of free time that I have. I'm not talking full-length feature film or computer game but I am thinking quality over quantity and something that would make people sit up and notice.

What I'm suggesting:

I have some ideas which are open to suggestion and change but currently consist of creating 1 or 2 cinematics, similar in style and approach to a quality computer game trailer or animated movie. Something short, to the point and leaving the viewer wanting more. Something dynamic with good narrative that needn't be bogged down with complex story and character development (although it will play a role). I'm thinking 30sec - 1minute max.

Why I'm suggesting it:

As I already mentioned, I'm too busy to do it on my own plus I'm not an all-encompassing, 3d artiste extraordinare. I'd rather be involved in a shared project that wows than burn myself out on a half-arsed attempt that never sees the light of day (I'm looking at you Rust Boy). I'd genuinely like to help talented artists to have an amazing showreel piece without needing to work for 3yrs at Blizzard or ILM first. Many of us make a living doing quite dull 3d work, wouldn't it be great to work on something that most of us would not normally get a chance to?

...and finally...because it would be a pretty cool thing to promote Lightwave with (if done right ;) ) I think that NewTek could do with a helping hand to get more users and show what is possible with their 'budget' app. More users = more development = better app...everyone's a winner

Current thoughts:

One of the things that I'm keen not to do is have just anyone work on it. Might sound a bit harsh but the last thing any project needs is a dead weight, myself included. Although I have a couple of vague ideas the concept process should be open to all and that's where anyone is welcome. Beyond that I think that it is important to get a team that understand's the project, is keen to work within a team and has the skills to contribute effectively. I don't believe that it should be a school project for people to learn Lightwave, rather something to inspire those that are learning by showing what is possible.

The two ideas that I have are quite different and even if they are discarded I think that it would be important to have something that covers a lot of skills to involve more people. As an example, one is more LOTR, WOW, fantasy, character driven and the other is more steampunk, WW2, air battle, vehicle orientated.

I'm sure that there's lots of questions and comments so I'll leave it there and open it up for discussion. Anything positive or negative is welcome I just want to see the reaction. :)

The Dommo
11-28-2008, 06:28 AM
I suggested something along these lines back in August.

I'd be happy to help where possible - but it wouldn't be till probably February of 2009 and thereafter...

biliousfrog
11-28-2008, 06:40 AM
Same here, I don't think many people will be able to do much until after christmas and obviously paid work is going to be increasingly more important. I'm of the mind that preparation is everything so until the 'work' can be started there's plenty of time for getting ideas together and thinking about what might be worth persuing.

cresshead
11-28-2008, 01:01 PM
having worked on a collaborative project where i was helping create the part of cg effects on a sci fi show, i'd say the more time/effort put into setting up the online communication system between artists-director-cast etc the more work you'll get done.

also...getting a rock solid storyboard/character sheet/reference and script to work with is VERY important..before you start production.

and the ftp-online file system setting up skype conference calls and a forum....all important to moving the project along, also be aware that people will come n go...drop out over time and tend to 'talk/write' more than 'do'...

we also had major issues with a mixed production pipeline with xsi & which was SO painful to get assets out of it from the xsi artist.

we used lightwave, 3dsmax, zbrush and vue...all were okay but xsi stunk...probably down to the way the models/scene were constructed more than xsi istelf.

not one to dampen your dreams just be aware upfront 'someone' will need to LEAD the production and keep the momentum up on it plus solve communication issues.

Salv8or
11-29-2008, 01:41 AM
I agree that it'll need a rocksolid storyboard, and a good online communication and file sharing sulotion.

But it sound like alot of fun. I have a lifetime of ideas that i know will never come to completion, due to lack of time and resources.

I would love to join in in a project like that. I have some times on my hands, if it looks like there goes some energy and enthusiasm in to the project.

Dexter2999
11-29-2008, 02:35 AM
http://collabunlimited.com/main/

Maybe an alternative.

Cageman
11-29-2008, 04:18 AM
Sounds interresting!

EDIT: I can setup and maintain an FTP (10/10 connection, 24/7). Depending on the timing, I can probably use the renderfarm at work as well.

Other than that, I can help out with animation and rigging.

Cageman
11-29-2008, 04:25 AM
Oh...and storagespace for the FTP is a non-issue. I can offer up to a 1TB as it is right now. :)

Cageman
11-29-2008, 04:30 AM
Communication: A mailinglist + Skype could be a good start. It's easy to invite and maintain a groupchat and log it and also offers some really good VOIP, but I don't know how many can speak at the same time. Mostly, emails or chats should be enough, and VOIP should be used if chatting is a limiting factor in getting the idea across.

The Dommo
11-29-2008, 05:30 AM
All good points. I'd love to do as mucn 3D as I physically can. I'd also be happy to do compositing, grading and edit etc on our realtime HD editing system here at the end.

JMCarrigan
11-29-2008, 03:37 PM
60 yo Lightwave Lover seeks just what you said. I've already been thinking along these same lines but didn't think of this. I have never done character animation - (I've been sneaking up on that) - but I can lend a hand somehow!

shrox
11-29-2008, 04:36 PM
Hi all,

I'm just throwing this out there to see how popular it would be and whether anyone would be interested.

I've got a couple of personal projects that I can't ever see me completing because of the over-whelming amount of work and miniscule amount of free time that I have. I'm not talking full-length feature film or computer game but I am thinking quality over quantity and something that would make people sit up and notice.

What I'm suggesting:

I have some ideas which are open to suggestion and change but currently consist of creating 1 or 2 cinematics, similar in style and approach to a quality computer game trailer or animated movie. Something short, to the point and leaving the viewer wanting more. Something dynamic with good narrative that needn't be bogged down with complex story and character development (although it will play a role). I'm thinking 30sec - 1minute max.

Why I'm suggesting it:

As I already mentioned, I'm too busy to do it on my own plus I'm not an all-encompassing, 3d artiste extraordinare. I'd rather be involved in a shared project that wows than burn myself out on a half-arsed attempt that never sees the light of day (I'm looking at you Rust Boy). I'd genuinely like to help talented artists to have an amazing showreel piece without needing to work for 3yrs at Blizzard or ILM first. Many of us make a living doing quite dull 3d work, wouldn't it be great to work on something that most of us would not normally get a chance to?

...and finally...because it would be a pretty cool thing to promote Lightwave with (if done right ;) ) I think that NewTek could do with a helping hand to get more users and show what is possible with their 'budget' app. More users = more development = better app...everyone's a winner

Current thoughts:

One of the things that I'm keen not to do is have just anyone work on it. Might sound a bit harsh but the last thing any project needs is a dead weight, myself included. Although I have a couple of vague ideas the concept process should be open to all and that's where anyone is welcome. Beyond that I think that it is important to get a team that understand's the project, is keen to work within a team and has the skills to contribute effectively. I don't believe that it should be a school project for people to learn Lightwave, rather something to inspire those that are learning by showing what is possible.

The two ideas that I have are quite different and even if they are discarded I think that it would be important to have something that covers a lot of skills to involve more people. As an example, one is more LOTR, WOW, fantasy, character driven and the other is more steampunk, WW2, air battle, vehicle orientated.

I'm sure that there's lots of questions and comments so I'll leave it there and open it up for discussion. Anything positive or negative is welcome I just want to see the reaction. :)

I do cinematics, it's my favorite!

http://www.vimeo.com/user650113/videos

cresshead
11-29-2008, 04:39 PM
60 yo Lightwave Lover seeks just what you said. I've already been thinking along these same lines but didn't think of this. I have never done character animation - (I've been sneaking up on that) - but I can lend a hand somehow!

hey in my first freelance character animation project i was totally GREEN but had some tutorial vids so suddenly i became 'a character animator'...the client didn't know i was totally new to all this...lucky for me the animation was not too tough or needed to be pixar quality!

so my best advice is to 'dive in' don't let the fact that you've never done any stop you from that at all:D

of coursein a production there's a whole load of things to be built, rigged, materials, lighting rigs, animatics...so i'm sure everyone wanting to pitch in will have quite abit to choose from on the 'to do list'

here's one of my recent clips>>
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3l02D0lf-SQ

not character animation i'd add!

JMCarrigan
11-29-2008, 05:31 PM
cresshead! I love that animationez! Oh, and I'm a diver!

biliousfrog
12-01-2008, 03:16 AM
well, great responses so far!

Cageman, use of the ftp would be a huge help, thanks for offering it.

I don't want to jump the gun but just thinking a little further afield...It might be nice to have a blog to keep people outside of the project up to speed with the development and make them feel involved. Perhaps post concept art, production stills and regular journals to keep interest in the project. I think that it would help to keep the enthusiasm levels up if there's a little bit of a buzz around the project and also encourage people to put 110% into their work to meet expectations...which is always difficult after working a full day.

My personal website isn't used at the moment, I can set that up as a project 'home' with editor access for people to update it. Actually, I might even be willing to buy a domain specifically so that everyone can have a dedicated email address...the only issue with that is that someone will end up as a website admin rather than working on the project but it's another way for people to get involved.

Keep the ideas coming. I'll post on Spinquad and CGTalk when I get a chance, I know that there's a lot of people that don't use these forums so much.

Salv8or
12-01-2008, 03:24 AM
Cageman: All good stuff. Do you have BBB as isp? Have static IP?

What should be the first step is to make up a mailing list or skype group and have a disscussion on what the ambitions are. Have someone who will be project leader, and someone who will act artdirector. Laying out the structure should be the first prioroty. As for now I think we leave the desitions and initatives to biliousfrog, if he feels up for it.

I hope that he finds a good crew and that there will be a final result. Its always very tricky to work in this facion.

Anyway's, im in, if I can contribute with anything.
I'we been working with lightwave since 3.x on the ol' Amiga 500 days, so I hope I have some talent that will come in handy.

//Ante.

The Dommo
12-01-2008, 05:02 AM
A blog is a good idea - I personally find myself more excited and harder working on a project the more that I can physically see it coming together.

Blogs are easy to set up anyway, so that should be no problem at all.

Breed47
12-01-2008, 07:17 AM
Sweet!
I can model characters and also animate them (not all though....)

At work I do alot of landscaping with xstream and a software I feel ashamed of telling here. Almost every animation I do are related to military stuff. But its not a thing I prefer. I do anything I get my hands on.

//Daniel

hydroclops
12-01-2008, 12:13 PM
This sounds good. I'm willing to be a worker bee. I have lightwave 9.5, zbrush, and high speed internet.

Check out some animation:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b10kAJd7ZGw

This is about 8 years old, done with LW 5.6. No audio.

Ember
12-01-2008, 12:21 PM
Another possibility for the collaboration site:

http://www.wreckamovie.com/

Don't have any personal experience about it but it did win an award here in Finland from it's idea and execution.

Cageman
12-01-2008, 03:42 PM
Cageman: All good stuff. Do you have BBB as isp? Have static IP?

I have ComHem, actually! :) But they seem to be rather stable... they've been doing some upgrading lately that have occasionally made my connection dissapear for a day, but it hasn't happened in a while now.

My IP is dynamic, but I have a DNS forwarder that is updated when I get a new IP, so that shouldn't be of any concern. :)

Tobian
12-02-2008, 10:26 AM
I think as an idea, a very short trailer style anim is a good idea for this type of thing, as even with the minimal amount of time, you still need al the assets: a story, script, models, background models, character models, surfaces, lighting, rendering, animating, post work, editing it all together, and trying not to let your head explode :D

Someone needs to sit down and have a good old think about what is going to be done, to draw up a list of all of the above (once you have an idea of course) , and you also need to protect your assets early on, with disclosure and ownership agreements. It's the ugly side of it, but it needs to be thought about.

I can help out, if I have the time between obsessive-compulsively modelling my station, and you know, the real world :D I am mostly good at hard surface modeling, lighting and rendering, but I haven't done much in the way of animation since 'rotating rock' debuted, on my Amiga, in the 90's :D

biliousfrog
12-02-2008, 11:04 AM
I'll attempt to get some ideas together this week and post something up for further comments. I'd quite like everyone to have some input, even people that can't contribute to the production should have an idea of what they'd like to see and hopefully offer some suggestions. I'm happy to oversee the running of things if everyone else is but I'd also be fine with handing it over to someone more experienced/qualified/capable...um...or popular? :D

I'll upload some pics and links for inspiration, maybe do a poll to see what direction people would like to go in and take it from there. To be honest, I really want to get a project finished before xmas but keep getting distracted so I won't promise anything yet but I'm really encouraged by the responses so far.

The Dommo
12-02-2008, 11:17 AM
sounds cool

adamredwoods
12-02-2008, 11:35 AM
I'm happy to oversee the running of things if everyone else is but I'd also be fine with handing it over to someone more experienced/qualified/capable...um...or popular? :D

As an experienced producer of animated shorts, anyone can do it, as long as you are committed to the entire length project. Be in charge, and make decisions, and most importantly, keep the project moving forwards.

Salv8or
12-02-2008, 01:54 PM
biliousfrog: Cool... To get it done before x-mas we/you/whoever should realy get a spin on things.. Who will join the project, who will do what ? How to get it started? For starters I think biliousfrog should pick the who what and where, and try to get some kind of "live" conversation to get the ball rolling.

Cant wait to see where its going... Almost better then waiting for santa.. =)

biliousfrog
12-02-2008, 02:49 PM
biliousfrog: Cool... To get it done before x-mas we/you/whoever should realy get a spin on things.. Who will join the project, who will do what ? How to get it started? For starters I think biliousfrog should pick the who what and where, and try to get some kind of "live" conversation to get the ball rolling.

Cant wait to see where its going... Almost better then waiting for santa.. =)

Hahaha...I just re-read my last post and it wasn't very clear :D

I'm working on a project at the moment for a client that I really want to finish before christmas (so that I can get paid). I need to concentrate on that before I can think about personal projects.:(

Although it's important to keep the momentum going with any project it would be disasterous to rush into anything. I think that the next step will be to decide on the subject matter/theme and discuss the story.

Salv8or
12-02-2008, 03:51 PM
biliousfrog: Ahh.. Okej. Thats a whole different story.. Funny how things can be so clear in the mind that one misses the whole content.. =)
Happens to me all the time.

Well then.. Dont worry be happy. Go fetch ya' monney, and this will collect momentum as time goes.

StereoMike
12-03-2008, 04:42 AM
I'm in a similar situation like biliousfrog, I have to finish 2 projects until the end of 2008. After that I'd like to help out with modeling.

www.siegfeld.com/picture

mike

softdistortion
12-03-2008, 12:19 PM
Hey biliousfrog...came over after stumbling upon your post at CGT.
I would offer some texture help for you if needed- UV unwrap and sheets.

Here's my current work on shirowproject>
(Model by Victor the master, aka Dogma in Max)
Tweaks and textures in LW/MODO/PS/BP

http://www.collabunlimited.com/imagestrip/images/collabunlimited_45.jpg (http://www.collabunlimited.com/imagestrip/images/collabunlimited_46.jpg)

SIDENOTE>
Dexter already linked the stuff I'm trying to do to help ideas like this along at collabunlimited (thanks Dexter!)...anyways, don't want to derail your thread - just briefly mention- if you and anyone else here is into supporting a site focused this type of collab project please register to show your support at the site.

We're shooting for early 2009 to have functional artist profile search and match system that will allow members to post their info such as- software, skill level, fave genre, what they are looking for and what they can help out with.

thnx
sd

PS: I'd luv to get permisson to use parts of your original post reasoning through the challenges to complete your project, in our "10 Reasons for collabunlimted"

biliousfrog
12-04-2008, 10:11 AM
Hey Softdistortion, sounds great!

You can grab anything you like from the original post and it would be great if you could help out. That model (and surfacing of course) looks fantastic BTW.

Since starting this thread I've been really stretched but I do keep popping back to read through the posts. It's very encouraging to have such a positive response.

Valter
12-04-2008, 01:13 PM
Hey great!!!

Good luck for you guys. Id love make part of this, but I have some project to finish as well.
cya

hydroclops
12-06-2008, 08:06 PM
I want to bring this thread back up, but all I've got is a simple observation.

Maybe a good way to start would be with a feature film style treatment. For a 30 sec. to 1 min. project this would amount to only a paragraph. Really only a few sentences.

with several treatments to review it might get something started.

If there is some good discussion and a treatment gets selected, then it would be time for a 1 page script, (the feature film rule of 1 page per minute) followed by concept art, story-boards, shot lists, and etc.

One way to go...

kopperdrake
12-07-2008, 04:43 AM
As PM's - I'm in wherever I can help. Love modelling and texturing.

Having worked in a big team in the past, may I say from an art point of view the biggest thing is consistency of style. You need someone with a good and critical eye who knows the style being worked towards. This style will have been laid down via concept art, real world and CG examples and have been decided by the core team (producer/lead artists etc) to be in line with the concept. If all the various digital monkeys have this reference to work from then something should pop out from each of them relatively similar. The lead artist/lighting guy/texturing guy should then be able to tweak these things to really bring them into line and add any necessary 'magic' they have - I know guys like this and they really do add a certain something to a piece of work.

Just my tuppence worth :)

softdistortion
12-07-2008, 02:16 PM
biliousfrog- you've been due-ly quoted. :) thnx

I agree with everything kopperdrake said...except the digital monkeys...we've found them to be unreliable and costly to repair.:D

Seriously though, does need a very good eye...they should know where some corners can be cut while still maintaining top quality visuals.

From my experience they should be a good CG allrounder having good grasp of all the parts of pipeline.....


anyways...will keep an eye here to see what happens with this...:thumbsup:

bgraves44
12-10-2008, 07:45 PM
Sounds cool! i could definitly get involved. I'm a solid modelor and a pretty good texture artist. I like character work mostly but whatever... Lightwave, Vue, 3d Coat, Photoshop....I've also been working in pro audio for 10 years, a musician for 25 years, have a recording studio (day job :)), know how to do sound design/foley/soundtrack, surround mixing etc. and have alot of time on my hands and an obsessive/compulsive personality :D

Will keep an eye out here.

B

biliousfrog
12-11-2008, 09:31 AM
Perhaps this will get you all thinking.....


Open on an empty street with Tudor style buildings nestling together under an overcast sky.

The streets are too quiet. The gentle whispering of the wind is becoming drowned out by distant echo's of explosions and screaming. The cloudy horizon is flashing yellow and red and where there were clouds has now become an acrid mixture of smoke.

Panning upwards we can see an iron clad vessel billowing steam and dropping explosives onto the helpless villagers behind the street. Chimney's and turrets protrude from the balloon-like hull as it floats motionless above.

From above the craft we follow a small squadron of aircraft as they descend through the clouds and try to comprehend the monstrosity in front of them...

Setting: Early 1900's, Northern European style town/village.

Story: The classic battle of good against evil, David and Goliath. A technically advanced country tries to conquer it's neighbours with advanced flying warships whilst they attempt to defend themselves with simple weapons but brave hearts.

Reference's: Steampunk, WW1, Battleships, Biplane/Triplane dogfights, Rocketeer, Sky Captain, Zepplin's, David and Goliath, War of the Worlds...

Overview: Introduce an alternate version of our world around the time of WW1 with familar but fantastic creations. Show the overwhelming odds against the brave pilots who are defending their land. Keep the entire production short, as a trailer or teaser, finishing it on a cliffhanger so that viewer's want to see more and intregued to know how it ends.

...discuss :)

Salv8or
12-11-2008, 01:21 PM
I love the idea, lots of creative freedom but still holds its frames. What kind of style do you have in mind? Realistic or styalized ?

I sure can see the techs like tall, skinny and "edgy/hard", and the "locals" have a softer design.

Salv8or
12-12-2008, 01:29 AM
Something like this passed my mind.. Sorry.. Got carried away. Had to make somthing.