PDA

View Full Version : LW8 ScreenShots from SIGGRAPH 2003



WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 10:24 AM
Here are a few screen grabs from SIGGRAPH....The Interface is not the final interface...these are more focused on the workspace area:

Bone Dynamics Rock!

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 10:25 AM
Using Bone Dynamics on this characters hair will add that extra detail to the animation.

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 10:26 AM
Ahhh... The joys of baking keys to lock the feet and hands in place :)

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 10:27 AM
Gotta love the fact that wind can effect bones now....Did I mention that Bone Dynamics Rock!

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 10:28 AM
The new Character tools get me up and animating in no time....and I don't have to hound Jonny or Deuce anymore :)

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 10:29 AM
Did I mention Bone Dynamics Rock!

polarman3d
08-07-2003, 10:31 AM
That's awesome! Thanks Proton! Man...I can't wait to get my hands on 8!!!

....oh wait...that rhymed! :D

KOlson
08-07-2003, 10:33 AM
wheres the drool smiley... These look awesome!!

Even though its not the final interface, I think its shaping up nice.. I like it a lot.

milkman
08-07-2003, 10:35 AM
Thanks a TON for those grabs, proton!!!

shermanlu
08-07-2003, 10:39 AM
Nice grabs... many thanks, Proton!!!:)

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 10:40 AM
More Grabs on the way!

CB_3D
08-07-2003, 10:50 AM
this may not be final, but i´d take it any day over the current brushed look!

But the bevels i´d drop. The current flat look would work tremendously well with the flat background as presented here.

Or leave it as an option.

Thx nice pix :p

CB_3D
08-07-2003, 11:00 AM
BTW, i noticed that the "Rotate Perspective" button is active in the side views. Does that mean that we can rotate directly into perspective mode now? Wahh! these little things make my day!

klarsen
08-07-2003, 11:00 AM
Cool screenshots...can't wait to play with the new tools. Any ideas on keeping the current color coding on the keys?

Valter
08-07-2003, 11:01 AM
Hehehe

Thanks Proton.

Proton could you post some screenshot of Dynamics-Setup Tab and Plugins Tab too?? hehehe :)

cheers

Seems that Boost Tools is a new miracle tools in lw8 :)

Exper
08-07-2003, 11:07 AM
Great stuff!!!! :D

But... what about PFX panel???

Bye.

Earl
08-07-2003, 11:26 AM
Nice subtle interface. It'll be great to see how it evolves into its final [8] form!

:)

hairy_llama
08-07-2003, 11:31 AM
Thanks for posting up those screengrabs. :)

Mike Pauza
08-07-2003, 11:48 AM
Looks really cool Will. You guys need to market the crap out of this stuff.

-Mike

Psyhke
08-07-2003, 11:59 AM
Looks cool! Thanks for posting.

Although I think this window needs a spit-shine. Even if it's just cleaning up the hodge-podge alignment and spacing.

facial deluxe
08-07-2003, 12:09 PM
My god... I can almost click it now.

What the hell...
I click the button an nothing happen...
LW8 doesn't work

Ok, I'll lick the screen then...

dzogchen
08-07-2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by Valter
Hehehe

Thanks Proton.

Proton could you post some screenshot of Dynamics-Setup Tab and Plugins Tab too?? hehehe :)

cheers

Seems that Boost Tools is a new miracle tools in lw8 :)


Yes pleazzzzze, some screenshot of Dynamics-Setup Tab and Plugins Tab :D

Mike Pauza
08-07-2003, 12:11 PM
Can you post some particle simulation pics too? :):):)

Nemoid
08-07-2003, 01:06 PM
Love the UI and the new tools!!:D

DaveW
08-07-2003, 01:35 PM
I love the classic 5.5 look to the buttons and the lack of brushed metal. I would like to have the option of using the color coded buttons like we have now; though I'm not sure if I'd end up using it, I like the grey and blue a lot. I'd have to use it for a bit and see how I like it.

anieves
08-07-2003, 01:41 PM
I wanted to see those since Sig.

looking good!

McLeft
08-07-2003, 02:16 PM
Does Shift+a work in "Perspective View" now?

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 02:25 PM
nice small additions to Modeler interface:

milkman
08-07-2003, 02:26 PM
I see one change to the modeler interface in that screen besides the colors... I see another button right beside the Move/Rotate/Zoom viewport controls. What does that do?

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 02:29 PM
That button is min/max viewport....so if your on a LAptop and don't have a numeric (0) key you aren't left out....I do alot of training on my laptop so this is a big one for me (minor for most people).....also the view type button now displays what mode your in...small but handy to me :)

Valter
08-07-2003, 02:39 PM
Layout feature is very cool. I'm really hope that NT improve this interface like Proton said. This interface is very hard look is not so harmonic.

I'm afraid with amount of FPS. 12!!!! :(


cheers

milkman
08-07-2003, 02:44 PM
Neato.

So Proton, can you tell us when a list of modeler updates will be released?

Valter
08-07-2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by proton
nice small additions to Modeler interface:

yeaaahhhh!!!! great addition Protons

It's a singles add, but extremely important. I think that lw need some more butons like this in modeler interface will simples fantastic to improve workflow.

cheers waves

Mike Pauza
08-07-2003, 02:54 PM
Love the min/max viewport button...I just started using a Laptop at home and hated having to "switch viewports manually"!!!

-Mike

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by Valter
yeaaahhhh!!!! great addition Protons

It's a singles add, but extremely important. I think that lw need some more butons like this in modeler interface will simples fantastic to improve workflow.

cheers waves

Feel free to throw out examples :)

Mike Pauza
08-07-2003, 03:10 PM
I'd dearly love hotkeys for user defined viewport configurations, and a "Smooth Wireframe Shade" mode (I know that's not a UI thing but I had to ask).

-Mike

McLeft
08-07-2003, 03:11 PM
Yes, this small button is really great improvement for laptop community, but anyway, does a (Fit All) / Shift + a (Fit Selected) work in Perspective view (in Layout) now?

CB_3D
08-07-2003, 03:11 PM
Well, the display options like "Show grid" "Show Polygon Selection" etc could be in a dropdown next to the viewmodes.
I find myself hitting D quite a few times.

McLeft
08-07-2003, 03:16 PM
By the way..... it would be really good to get "snap" setting out of "Display options" menu for quicker access... or at least add ability to assign shortcuts for turning snapping on/off.

Mike Pauza
08-07-2003, 03:21 PM
Pressing d, o, and n is easy...but IMHO buttons would be nice.

Lewis
08-07-2003, 03:27 PM
To add at Mike's "shade wire" mode i'd like to save curent window configuration ? Lika Adobe products (Premiere or after effects). Then you can save your window configuration and don't worry about it 'coz you always can switch bettween modes fast. I hate that when i load someones scene it alters my windws config ? I work in 4 windows (1 big on left for camera nad 3 small on right for top. side and right) config and BLUE overlay and when i load other scenes i get white ovelray color wich stays that when i close Layout. So i need to change it at options menu before exiting layout or change it next time when i load layout :(.

thanks for screngrabs :)

Valter
08-07-2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by proton
Feel free to throw out examples :)

OK. Thanks for opportunity. Proton What do think about it?

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=495

Psyhke
08-07-2003, 03:32 PM
Idea: A toggle grid on/off quick button! (similar to the maximize/minimize button).

:D

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 03:38 PM
why not just have all Display option for teh viewport...like Show cages, Guides, Grid, etc.

Meshbuilder
08-07-2003, 03:50 PM
Proton> Please, please make a better way to see which polygons that are selected in modeler.. It can be really hard now sometimes..

http://www.vinyamar.com/~darkeden/meshbuilder/download/select.jpg

Psyhke
08-07-2003, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by proton
why not just have all Display option for teh viewport...like Show cages, Guides, Grid, etc.

.. do you mean in a drop-down menu?... yeah that would be cool too. :cool:

CB_3D
08-07-2003, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by proton
why not just have all Display option for teh viewport...like Show cages, Guides, Grid, etc.

Just as i said. But please please please in a pulldown. Let´s keep it clean.

Valter
08-07-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Mike Pauza
Pressing d, o, and n is easy...but IMHO buttons would be nice.

Hi Mike

can be easy, but is very bored every time to press d to setup a viewport.

cheers

policarpo
08-07-2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Meshbuilder
Proton> Please, please make a better way to see which polygons that are selected in modeler.. It can be really hard now sometimes..

http://www.vinyamar.com/~darkeden/meshbuilder/download/select.jpg

now that's a damn nice idea! it's hard to see the selected polys on my laptop monitor at times.

make it so!!!!!:D

geoff3dnz
08-07-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by proton
Ahhh... The joys of baking keys to lock the feet and hands in place :) Proton, could you explain this? You mean you have to bake keys to lock a foot in place? What if you decide you don't like the foot's position? Bake again? I thought this was what IK was for in the first place - move the foot you want it to stay, and it'll stay there until otherwise told to move...
:-\

geoff3dnz
08-07-2003, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Meshbuilder
Proton> Please, please make a better way to see which polygons that are selected in modeler.. It can be really hard now sometimes..

http://www.vinyamar.com/~darkeden/meshbuilder/download/select.jpg And, of course, make the colour user selectable, to take into account the colour of your object :)

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 04:13 PM
I'll have to create a movie to explain when I can

Lewis
08-07-2003, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Meshbuilder
Proton> Please, please make a better way to see which polygons that are selected in modeler.. It can be really hard now sometimes..

http://www.vinyamar.com/~darkeden/meshbuilder/download/select.jpg

Meshbuilder your requiest is reasonable but what you showed here isn't too good :). What if you work on brown model :) ? Who will decide what color of selected polys should be ?

We just need ability to CHANGE wires color (in all modes not just in sketch) so you could set wieres to BLACK (instead LWs white) and then yellow outlined polys would be much easyer to see IMHO.

Earl
08-07-2003, 04:19 PM
I love the idea of being able to choose between user-selected color for polygon selection shading (as per Meshbuilder's example) AND also being able to say no shading (as it is now). Both modes would be useful.

Psyhke
08-07-2003, 04:30 PM
Adjustable wirecolor so it would be easy to choose something like this? And adjustable from yellow selection color as well...

policarpo
08-07-2003, 04:31 PM
i think this could be resolved is the highlight were set to a Screen or Additive mode, so you could still see Gray on Brown, Blue on Blue, etc...i just did a test in Photoshop and it works. :)

policarpo
08-07-2003, 04:34 PM
woops.

here it is...

Psyhke
08-07-2003, 04:35 PM
That's an even better idea.


..but, wait, what if the surface color is white, or very very light?

policarpo
08-07-2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Psyhke
That's an even better idea.


..but, wait, what if the surface color is white, or very very light?

well, then yer screwed. :P

wacom
08-07-2003, 04:56 PM
Why not make it an option...so that the color of your poly is inverted? How far off would this be since we can do it with background images in viewports already? You could even have invert->Subtractive or invert->additive. If you're working on a white mesh you'd get a black selection with generic yelow lines. Just my two cents...:)

Mike Pauza
08-07-2003, 04:56 PM
What about this?

Psyhke
08-07-2003, 04:58 PM
@policarpo: fair enough. :)

(or like the doctor telling the patient not to 'go like that' when they say 'it hurts when I goes like this'. i.e. 'i can't see my selection when my surface is white'... 'don't make your surface white.') :D

Psyhke
08-07-2003, 05:03 PM
Mike, that could work. Here's another 'wrench' in the works-- what if the surface is textured with an image?

Most cases you'd be done, or nearly done with modeling if you're looking at textures, but still, something will have to happen when you make a selection under that circumstance.

wacom
08-07-2003, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Psyhke
Mike, that could work. Here's another 'wrench' in the works-- what if the surface is textured with an image?

Most cases you'd be done, or nearly done with modeling if you're looking at textures, but still, something will have to happen when you make a selection under that circumstance.

I still think that "inverting" the selected poly(s) color is the best way to go...thanks for adding an example Mike. This would work for textures too...

policarpo
08-07-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by wacom
I still think that "inverting" the selected poly(s) color is the best way to go...thanks for adding an example Mike. This would work for textures too...

Here here!!

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 05:16 PM
the ability to delete and edit individual particles rock!

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 05:17 PM
Global Illumination is my buddy:

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 05:19 PM
Hulk get mad...hulk becomes collision object....hulk smash walls with hard body dynamics :)

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 05:20 PM
BOXX smashes the compitetion with Hard Bodies :)

policarpo
08-07-2003, 05:20 PM
nice...ninjas. nice hulk...nice BOXXBOT!!!:)

robinson
08-07-2003, 05:23 PM
Hey Proton, wasn’t there a new particle system in 8 too ?
Sorry I could be wrong but wasn’t there something mentioned ?:confused:

And BTW great Idea with the “shaded” selected polygons.

[Shade selected faces, old 3dmax feature I forgot like the rest you can forget after you switched to Lightwave.] :D

milkman
08-07-2003, 05:33 PM
Hold on, I'm confused

What is the global illumination pic about?

GI enhancments perhaps?

WilliamVaughan
08-07-2003, 05:35 PM
stay tuned :)

proteus
08-07-2003, 05:40 PM
...never posted anything before, but I am a big fan, lw is the tool that i know best, and I feel that if I don't speak now, I will regret it...so, here goes

1) please people learn to ASK FOR MORE!

duh! maximize buttons and "turn normals on/off" buttons! This can be programmed in a sec by a newtek programmer. Same applies to "selection modes" -- yeah guys! brilliant ideas about the selections.. but lw has MANY other problems right now. And in case you Didn't knew, mister portable computer guy, you could hit alt+f9 and reassign the "zoom viewport function" from numpad 0 to another key!!!

2) NEWTEK! if you want to built lw8, and not 7.75, try THESE
* n-gons working in subdivision surfaces
* dock panel. I HATE all those windows floating
* workaround the bug with the windows XP language bar! it's frustrating!
* more solid renderer... crashes often in every system I have tested it in
* dynamics and characters that actually WORK (off the shelf, I mean:P... not with 3rd party plugins)
* better UV management and tools
* better UI in layout
* GROUPING in layout.. We don't want to see EVERY object and EVERY bone of the 232 characters we have in the scene.. its disturbing!

..... my point is....

DON'T just integrate plugins! built something REALLY new for christ sake! I was a big fan, and wanted a big change for lw8. Now lw8 looks like lw7.6 to me... IF you keep just "patching" lw7. then

1) I get humilliated by my MAX-worshippers friends
2) I won't find any job as a modeler, since big co will turn to MAYA, or even MODO (yes, that should be lightwave 2004 interface)
3) Ultimately, i will quit using my favourite app, which is lw, and turn to another. And i KNOW, that many people will do the same. Newtek, you have a "large user base"... DON'T LOOSE IT!

proteus
08-07-2003, 05:43 PM
oh...
and inverting the selected poly WILL NOT work. If you invert a 127,127,127 Gray, you'd get... um.. gray... again... :P

SolidServo
08-07-2003, 05:44 PM
I like alot of those ideas on highlighting the selected polygon.......but if it were me I'd like to see the color be the users choice........say for instance.........2 buttons....."Selected Polygon Color" and "Un-Selected polygon Color" and maybe make it the same way for points and the grid.

cresshead
08-07-2003, 05:55 PM
proteus...calm down!...you missed the siggraph show then?
..take a look at the downloadedable videos from the show...
you'll like e'm!

lw8 looking cool

by the way proton..i use lw7.5 on a lapyop n re assigned the min max key...[no numeric keypad on a sony vaio]

later
steve g

Mike Pauza
08-07-2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by proton
stay tuned :)




You guys saving the best for last? :)

wacom
08-07-2003, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by proteus
oh...
and inverting the selected poly WILL NOT work. If you invert a 127,127,127 Gray, you'd get... um.. gray... again... :P

And that is what you want...because then there is the good old highlighted area in yellow (or what ever color you choose)! Bright colors always stand out on a darker background...and I didn't even have to calculate that! Please- if your going to insult all of us at least get it right the first time.:) I guess you only use grey base colors, on a grey background, on a grey grid with grey...

Please Proton keep up the good show with the great images!

dpartridge
08-07-2003, 06:29 PM
to add to meshbuilders idea of colored selection. when using influence tools like magnet, show the influence by fading of the selection color. this would help when using complex geometry to visualize in the affect of the tools.

also i would think it would help workflow if another button was added to the render window that would save the last rendered image in the format and with the name of the last save image . saves scrolling down the pop-up each time and typing a name. this is handy when you would rather render with F9 and only save the scene periodically. and a copy button to copy the image so it can be pasted into photoshop.

Kuzey
08-07-2003, 06:37 PM
Oh My...Lightwave 8 is looking like it's going to be better then slice bread:p

I would love to see user defined keyboard shortcuts/hotkeys for those tabs...it sure would improve the workflow:p :p

Kuzey

milkman
08-07-2003, 07:02 PM
STAY TUNED?!?!?!

Proton, your killing me with anticipation.

How long must I stay tuned?

Howzat
08-07-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by dpartridge
to add to meshbuilders idea of colored selection. when using influence tools like magnet, show the influence by fading of the selection color. this would help when using complex geometry to visualize in the affect of the tools.

also i would think it would help workflow if another button was added to the render window that would save the last rendered image in the format and with the name of the last save image . saves scrolling down the pop-up each time and typing a name. this is handy when you would rather render with F9 and only save the scene periodically. and a copy button to copy the image so it can be pasted into photoshop.
yes and yes please!

KOlson
08-07-2003, 08:19 PM
What's "BoostTool" ?

milkman
08-07-2003, 09:30 PM
Proton, why must you tease us so.

:(

:)

Memodin
08-07-2003, 11:32 PM
The look;
The new look... hmm... i hope this doesn't be the final. The current LW7.5's look is better. Didn't love the old style and rounded 3d buttons. 2d was better for me (But not important very very much.). Yes, current LW's look is certainly better and distunguished.


The interface;
Yes we, the LW fans deserve more adjustible and flexible interface. Like Maya's or Modo's... Even better. Workflow is you know important.


The animation tools;
Yes, at last, there are a lot of good stuff for animation. That's the point that makes LW8, LW8.


The Newtek;
I think the name is coming from "New technologies and technics". I realy wonder, is there any "newtek"s that other packages don't have with incoming LW 8? Is there radical changes coming? 2 years is not short. As a fan, it was very very long and it was hard to be patience.


Also,
I agree with other guys. Selection and viewport development must be done in the Modeler. For instance i use "select (and hide) selected poligons" like others, a lot. And this is working in 5 steps ! (1-Hit "d" 2-Click viewports 3-Click "Br" 4-Click "Show polygon selection" 5-Click OK). And do the 5 steps again to turn it opposite.


I am hopeful anyway with LW8. I love and i will love LW whatever it comes with anything. And also this community is realy great.



.

MrWyatt
08-08-2003, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by proton
Global Illumination is my buddy:

wow does this mean there are changes to the renderer. Is there global illumination ( faster rendering radiosity implementation) ? or is this the known radiosity render and I just missunderstood ( I tend to do so, you know what I mean William). :rolleyes:

Matt
08-08-2003, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by proton
stay tuned :)

oohhh you tease! stop it, stop it now! :)

Matt
08-08-2003, 03:00 AM
I concur with the shaded selected polygon too - great idea! :)

- - -

another idea, when hitting 'select connected' LWM currently 'shows' the selection process i.e. highlight poly, then show, highlight poly, then show, highlight poly, then show etc. until all polys are highlighted.

wouldn't it be better if it just left out the 'show' part until the very end, it would be quicker, especially on large models.

or better still how about a 'select object' mode which allows you to select the entire (connected) model in one click?

- - -

I know this isn't the final interface look, but I'm not keen on the heavy borders around everything, especially if the viewport bar will be loaded with gadgets, are they really that necessary?

Memodin
08-08-2003, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by Matt
- - -

I know this isn't the final interface look, but I'm not keen on the heavy borders around everything, especially if the viewport bar will be loaded with gadgets, are they really that necessary?


Look that. How nice it is. That tiny details are changing the whole vision of interface. I liked it Matt. I am fully agree with you. The heavy borders with the black lines must be gone like that from the whole interface.

(i also love your lightwave vx project. Keep on...).

VEBO
08-08-2003, 04:30 AM
Very good Matt!!! I like it.
It's far better than beveled version.
NICE!!!

VEBO

jb_gfx
08-08-2003, 05:16 AM
Invert + 25% luminosity = End of problem ;)

stone
08-08-2003, 05:18 AM
another little change which i think would be a step in the right direction, would be to remove the inner dark bevel off the buttons.

i did that on the top row.

http://www.peroxide.dk/temp_pictures/beveless.jpg

it was clearly stated though that what is shown is not the final interface. so maybe we shouldnt get to far into that discussion again and try to be patient instead.

/stone

zapper1998
08-08-2003, 05:51 AM
WOW looking really good

any idea when the release date of LW8 ???

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

ghopper
08-08-2003, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by Matt
I know this isn't the final interface look, but I'm not keen on the heavy borders around everything, especially if the viewport bar will be loaded with gadgets, are they really that necessary?

Agreed, flat looking interface elements are more pleasing to the eye.

There is still enough time to change it ;)

Valter
08-08-2003, 06:11 AM
hey guys "Wire-Smooth" like Maya is a singles and good request too.

will good if newtek reserve some place in modeler to show layer names (pool down??)or maybe show layer name whem mouse pointer move over layer bar. I have a model with 79 layers and is very confused work with this amount of layers.


cheers

badllarma
08-08-2003, 06:46 AM
Please tell me we are going to be able to show the numeric pannel, surface editor, graph editor etc within the window view ports rather than those bloody floating pannels.

ahhhhh I hate floating pannels! :(

BTW Proton nice pics..

You know what I really liked from Siggraph the demo when you showed the hypervoxels with the gradient (one of your post pics show the image with the character and the head on fire) and with open GL as you altered the gradient the fire changed colour ...thought that was really cool as I'm new to that stuff I you could see straight away which end of the gradient bar effected the fires colour for that section.

I wonder is the Super Duper "Boost" button a cover for a range of tools the names you don't want us to see or is it really that Super :D

mattclary
08-08-2003, 06:48 AM
Kinda funny, read this post from circa 2000. Seems as though when 6 came out Stuart Ferguson wanted to move away from the pseudo 3d buttons, now we revert. Personally, I kinda like the pseudo 3d buttons.


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lw3d/message/15123

I find this particularly interesting: "I was sorry to hear that some people disliked the graphical appearance
of [6]"

You will see the same thing with the new UI, a lot of complaining will be heard, some people just don't like change.

KOlson
08-08-2003, 06:55 AM
pseudo 3d buttons get my vote too

anieves
08-08-2003, 08:18 AM
I absoluteley love the selected poly color, the shades of color for falloff is a great idea too can you imagine that with the magnet tool? that would be SWEET!

sadkkf
08-08-2003, 08:33 AM
Any chance the SIGGRAPH scene files will be available when 8 is releseased? They are some of the best learning tools. :)

WilliamVaughan
08-08-2003, 08:37 AM
All the SIGGRAPH scene files will ship with LW8 :)

WilliamVaughan
08-08-2003, 08:57 AM
more stuuf to look at:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9247

sketchyjay
08-08-2003, 09:16 AM
I like the idea of changing the wire color because it is damn hard to see. The highlighted polys could lighteen/darken reverse...ANYTHING if it helps visablity.

Reversed/invert color would be best becuase it would deal with any color... well except gray 128 128 128...

Even if not user selectable make sure there is a nice contrast in the colors. Black wireframe would be my choice. Some tmes it's so hard to see I work in weight shade mode to see what i have selected.

great screen shots.... Love to see some more modeler stuff...even hints like buttons or tabs or new panels.

J

sketchyjay
08-08-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by proton
All the SIGGRAPH scene files will ship with LW8 :)

What about us who purchased the LW/DFX package. Since we get no CD it would be nice if they were uploaded like the last siggraph files. I hate to be penalized for being an early adopter.

thanks,

jay

Doug Nicola
08-08-2003, 09:22 AM
Nice design work as always, Matt. I agree, the 3D buttons still look cluttered. I know it's not the final interface, but I'm still hoping for a cleaner look.

Thanks for the screengrabs Proton! Very nice! And some interesting hints, too.... :D

WilliamVaughan
08-08-2003, 09:26 AM
if you own LW* u will have the content

Gui Lo
08-08-2003, 11:21 AM
I tend to use the Perspective view a lot for modelling.

It would be great to be able to press a key and have the Perspective view rotate the object to a view from the top, the left side, front, ect.

Love the selected polys idea and the coloured fall off. The coloured fall off could even apply to surfaces with a value for fall off. I mean click on the property such as a colour texture and see the fall off for that value.

mattclary
08-08-2003, 11:43 AM
I'm pretty sure you can create numeric shortcuts to display the isometric views currently.


Edit: Yep, use your CTRL key while pushing a key on your number pad.

sketchyjay
08-08-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by proton
if you own LW* u will have the content

OOps I think you ment LW8, I get it now was confused for a moment.

thanks,
Jay

A Mejias
08-08-2003, 03:23 PM
Proton,

Thanks for the screenshots and previews of some of the new features!!! I really like the highlighted selected polys. :D I'd like to see this feature in wire frame view too. I still mostly work in wire frame mode. Also maybe make some way of showing what polys are selected on the other side maybe with a different color that shows though.

A big time interface request that I've been asking for since version 4.0 is the ability to navigate the whole interface with the keyboard like standard Windows/Mac programs. It really helps when jumping between apps and having them all work with the same conventions. Many times its just faster than moving the mouse all around the screen and of the standard nav keys are under the left hand.

Some examples:
Esc key closes active panel!!!
Tab/Shift+Tab key moves around the main interface and all panel buttons and fields.
Space bar toggles check boxes and activates buttons like a mouse click.
Etc....

I've done application UI design and now do web UI design and find that consistency and familiarity are key to a good UI. The key to great UI is much more elusive. ;)

Thanks again and thanks for listening to our requests.

cornel
08-08-2003, 05:09 PM
I love Lightwave & I'm looking forward to the features in release 8 but
I was really shocked when I saw the new beveled button interface. This is means changing an smart functional interface into a clunky retro one. Is this only for the sake of changing it ? I am very interface sensitive, I couldn't work with an application that has an interface I can't stand. I mean you have to look at is all day long. I would't want to insult the designer in charge at Newtek, he's probably having designers block and is great otherwise. But, this is the time to bring in people who are specialized in GUI only. There are design companies that are doing nothing but GUI. And there are designers who have a feel for it, like matt. This is so obvious. A smart management knows that a an elegant GUI is contributing to the success of the software to great extend especially if you would like to attract new customers...

ghopper
08-08-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by cornel
I love Lightwave & I'm looking forward to the features in release 8 but I was really shocked when I saw the new beveled button interface....

Don't worry, I'm sure NT is going to change the interface and maybe even sticking an option in to revert to LW7 style interface.

DaveW
08-08-2003, 05:48 PM
I love the new interface and the beveled buttons. Matt, I could live with the changes you made, but I think a slight bevel when you hover over a button like LW 7.5 does would be a good idea. I think Stone's more subtle bevel is a better compromise though. Although to be honest, I'd rather they keep it the way it is. I'm very fond of the LW 5.5 button style :) This discussion sounds very much like the LW6 beta list, lots of people saying they hate the new interface, lots saying they like it. You can't please everyone. I remember stuart talking about a skinable interface, I hope we see something like that. It's the only way to please everyone.

geoff3dnz
08-08-2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by jb_gfx
Invert + 25% luminosity = End of problem ;) No, make the colour user-selectable = Absolute end of problem ;)

geoff3dnz
08-08-2003, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by DaveW
...I remember stuart talking about a skinable interface, I hope we see something like that. It's the only way to please everyone. Hmmm, so long as it doesn't take too long to code, fine. But I really hope that instead of working too hard on a sparkly flash skinable interface that many people probably won't ever use, they work on the important stuff - stuff that makes the tool more powerful, more flexible, and faster... (and fix the problems that still exist) :)

If we're only discussing the look of the buttons, it's not that big a deal, surely?

Gui Lo
08-08-2003, 08:55 PM
Hi Mattclary


...you can create numeric shortcuts to display the isometric views currently... Yep, use your CTRL key while pushing a key on your number pad.

This allows the user to Save Prests but that is not what I wish for.

What I am asking for is the ability to have the Perspective View as full screen in a single view. Then to have that rotate the object automatically to show it from the side, top, ect; while still in perspective mode.

At the moment I have to go to an isometric view to draw things that are parrallel. Why can't I stay in the Perspective view.

Also camera HPB settings in modellers Perspective view would be handy.

proteus
08-09-2003, 05:16 AM
How about the modeler? I don't remember seeing any screenshots... So, Maybe it would be a good idea to have those axes that we see in layout, in modeler too. If many points are selected, the axes should be drawn in the center of the selection. That way we could model using mostly the perspective view.

We can have axes constrained movement in perspective in lw7.5(with ctrl+drag or middle drag), but it's a little more difficult to use than the axes. Maybe it would be even nicer if the axes were drawn when the user keeps ctrl pressed... Just some ideas

DaveW
08-09-2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by geoff3dnz
Hmmm, so long as it doesn't take too long to code, fine. But I really hope that instead of working too hard on a sparkly flash skinable interface that many people probably won't ever use, they work on the important stuff - stuff that makes the tool more powerful, more flexible, and faster... (and fix the problems that still exist) :)

If we're only discussing the look of the buttons, it's not that big a deal, surely?

Well look how much time and effort is going into these interface changes. They're spending lots of time designing interfaces, gathering user feedback, make new interface, get more user feedback, and there's always people complaining. If they had spent this time making a skinnable interface instead, then all these threads about the looks of the buttons wouldn't exist, and everyone could focus on new features. NewTek won't have to worry about the look of the buttons or colors anymore, spending a bunch of time trying to figure out how to please as many users as possible. And they can avoid all this hassle the next time LW needs an updated look. The look of the interface is obviously a big deal or threads about it wouldn't be longer than the threads about new features.

Ionex
08-09-2003, 11:53 AM
Proton, would it be possible to see something other than just some screenshots with different scenes and only that Items tab? Every shot I have seen is pretty much the same. That’s really not showing us anything. I appreciate your efforts on showing us these. There nice - but how about some screens of some of the new tabs and tools.

mattclary
08-09-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Gui Lo
...Then to have that rotate the object automatically to show it from the side, top, ect; while still in perspective mode.


You're just thinking about it the wrong way. Why rotate the object when you can rotate the view? Don't hold your breath on that request, it ain't gonna happen.


Try this:
Use the 0 key to maximize the TOP view. Hit CTRL > 1 (on the number pad).

A dialog pops up tilted Save View Preset. Select "Whole Window" and name

the preset "Top", click OK.

Use the 0 key to maximize the BACK view. Hit CTRL > 2 (on the number

pad). A dialog pops up tilted Save View Preset. Select "Whole Window" and

name the preset "Back", click OK.

Use the 0 key to maximize the RIGHT view. Hit CTRL > 3 (on the number

pad). A dialog pops up tilted Save View Preset. Select "Whole Window" and

name the preset "Right", click OK.

Use the 0 key to maximize the PERSPECTIVE view. Hit CTRL > 4 (on the

number pad). A dialog pops up tilted Save View Preset. Select "Whole

Window" and name the preset "Perspective", click OK.

Now, go maximize your perspective view and work as desired. When you want

a TOP view, hit 1 on the number pad. When you want the RIGHT view hit 3, when you wnat to go back to perspective, hit 4.

KeystoneMike
08-09-2003, 10:03 PM
Without the borders on the viewport controls, I think they blend into each other too much.

Mike


Originally posted by Matt

I know this isn't the final interface look, but I'm not keen on the heavy borders around everything, especially if the viewport bar will be loaded with gadgets, are they really that necessary? [/B]

MasterTux
08-10-2003, 01:31 AM
no matter what they say, i am drooling and i can't wait!

stone
08-10-2003, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by DaveW
Well look how much time and effort is going into these interface changes. They're spending lots of time designing interfaces, gathering user feedback, make new interface, get more user feedback, and there's always people complaining.

where do you get this from? i strongly disagree - they dont use much time at
all at the interface.

they've put up a quick example and thats it. rest is user made discussion and feedback.

this is a rather good idea since they get tons of feedback without having to spend time on it themselves yet.

/stone

Gui Lo
08-10-2003, 09:38 AM
You're just thinking about it the wrong way. Why rotate the object when you can rotate the view?

Well that's pretty much how it is done now and that is not rely good enough.

I hear what you are saying. But my initial suggestion was not to have to jump into isometric and back to perspective all the time. The best workflow is when the action is invisible or the action causes minimal disturbance to the user.

Although 3d rendering comes historically from 2d draughting tools it must now allow its users to work efficiently in 3d space.

Rotating the object in perspective mode to set values holds benefits that straight isometric views cannot acheive. These include lining up tools quickly, painting maps or drawing 3d objects in a single window.

kevman3d
08-10-2003, 09:42 PM
All these gui ideas are great - I have one very small and simple one however:

Image Viewer title bar - Can we get the render time for the image included? I mean, something like "blah.lws 0001 (8m 32s) 800x600 32bits"

Would be damn useful when doing test renders...

milkman
08-10-2003, 10:19 PM
Yes, I agree with Kevman.

hairy_llama
08-10-2003, 11:03 PM
kevman3d, that is an awsome idea... It would save me a lot of test renders...

anieves
08-11-2003, 07:24 AM
hey that is a good idea! after you hit enter you are in the dark unless you jot it down, you can loose track of things rather quickly writting render times down. Sometimes Iam too quick to hit the enter key without checking my render time:eek:

Matt
08-11-2003, 08:51 AM
why stop there?

what about a render log file with total scene breakdown, times etc?

sketchyjay
08-11-2003, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Matt
why stop there?

what about a render log file with total scene breakdown, times etc?

i like that idea.

that was one of the things i loved in animation master. it broke the time down to rays, particles, reflec...etc... you knew what in the scene was causing the slowdowns.

a log saved to the project folder with the renders would e great


J

kevman3d
08-11-2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by anieves
hey that is a good idea! after you hit enter you are in the dark unless you jot it down, you can loose track of things rather quickly writting render times down. Sometimes Iam too quick to hit the enter key without checking my render time:eek:

YES! Exactly my reason for wanting this. If I'm doing a series of optimisation tests with and without certain settings to see how it affects final render time before dumping it on a render farm, this would really help me a LOT.

That idea of a log is also a cool idea too - It would be great to be able to get a log of frame renders so that the rendering for a job could also be costed more accurately on exact time taken to render

pixym
08-11-2003, 04:40 PM
I wonder weither rendering time will be improved :(

DaveW
08-12-2003, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by stone
where do you get this from? i strongly disagree - they dont use much time at
all at the interface.

they've put up a quick example and thats it. rest is user made discussion and feedback.

this is a rather good idea since they get tons of feedback without having to spend time on it themselves yet.

/stone


They've put up several examples, and those took time to create. They only showed us 3 or 4 of the designs that NT was leaning towards, I got the impression that they had more done that were thrown out. They have to wade through all of these threads and try to figure out which design will please the most users, and if they're getting lots of negative feedback then they have to start designing more styles and see how users react. I'll bet they have meetings to discuss interface issues as well, and they're bringing in some outside designers as well. The whole process will start over again the next time the interface needs to be revamped. There's a lot more going on that just a quick example being posted.

CTRL+X
08-13-2003, 01:07 AM
Love the interface the way it is shown here with the heavy beveled buttons.. the way LW used to look!! the way it ought to look



Keep Wavin

mav3rick
08-15-2003, 08:12 AM
proton deuce or any1 in develop team :) listen up hehehhhe
fix camera control in target mode to be able to pan (move camera and target at same time) u know like other 3d apps do....... check 3dsMAX......... for other stuff u know i asked full usable new ik system THIS IS BIG PLUS from me to NT team... and would be really cool to do SPLINE DRAW TOOl so ppl dRAW SPLINE In layout and POINTS oF spline is actually NULL OBJECTS.. i think it is possyble to do this kind of tool for layout........ also to upgraed that nulls (SPLINE TOOL) to show TANGENTS like splinetransfor from japanees author........ check that plugin it is ultimate it is SUPERB... also expand camera to have option to follow that spline ... not just camera all items to have some kind of MOTION PLUGIN that will be able scan that DRAWN spline and to follow it.............. more better than draw spline in modeler and than edit it and jumpoing btw 2 apps also would be cool have option to CONVERT modeler spline into layout spline so it automaticly add SPLINE nulls to eatch point of spline and adjust TANGENTS......
hmm i bet i forgot to tell somethin now i must go run for girls ........... will tell ya later:)

:D :D

sire
08-18-2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Gui Lo
Well that's pretty much how it is done now and that is not rely good enough.

I hear what you are saying. But my initial suggestion was not to have to jump into isometric and back to perspective all the time. The best workflow is when the action is invisible or the action causes minimal disturbance to the user.

Isometric is always better for accurate editing.


Rotating the object in perspective mode to set values holds benefits that straight isometric views cannot acheive. These include lining up tools quickly, painting maps or drawing 3d objects in a single window.

I don't understand why isometric views should be unable to achieve ... what exactly?

Once the object is rotated and the perspective view changes, it would be extremely hard to get it back into original orientation. Rotating the view would be way better therefore. I made a feature request which goes into the same general topic:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9114

It would be helpful if cameras could be used in Modeler, with the ability to store a perspective viewports' settings into one. Very useful for working with stuff which has to match to photos, too.

Gui Lo
08-18-2003, 10:24 AM
You're right about the rotation of the view as opposed to the object. I just wanted to avoid the words 'view', 'snap', 'axis' to stop confusion ... Oops! failed I guess.

Anyway all it boils down to a way for me to model precisely within the perspective mode alone.

A request made out of shear laziness to press buttons and resize viewpoints.
:D

mattclary
08-18-2003, 10:55 AM
If your request was implemented, how would you activate it without a keypress? :) It only takes one keypress working in one viewport mode to switch between perspective and any given orthagonal view.

Gui Lo
08-18-2003, 12:30 PM
If your request was implemented, how would you activate it without a keypress? It only takes one keypress working in one viewport mode to switch between perspective and any given orthagonal view.


I guess it would be assigned to the viewport menu or to a mouse button. If the HPB readouts were HUD like then these could be clicked and the view would set them to zero, 45, 90, etc. Maybe even user defined steps.


Still, I would like to model totally and acurately in the Perspective View.


Also the keypress to switch modes is fine. It's the keypress to switch back that is too much and very annoying!
:)

mav3rick
08-20-2003, 03:49 AM
ah almost forgot to tell......... NT fix GLOW visible in alpha in lw8......... if superglow can handle this i am more than sure NT coders can handle also

Ade
08-31-2003, 07:20 AM
does lw have ngons? wat r they?