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IMI
11-09-2008, 06:34 AM
I thought this might make for an interesting topic, and I mean it also specifically in the realm of 3D modeling.

What makes an attractive face?

I've been ogling women for quite a while now :D But in the course of working on this new female character I started it's occurred to me I really don't understand, anatomically-speaking what I've been attracted to all these years. Rather, I can't pin it down to any particular set of features. All normal heads have two eyes, two lips, cheeks, a nose, a forehead, and so on, but depending on the arrangement of all that, you can have people who are either overwhelmingly attractive or overwhelmingly un-attractive.

Things like hair - long, flowing hair, can often make an average face look alot better, and kind of take the attention away from facial details, and you could say the same about makeup.

But what is it, angular features? Small or big noses? Tall or short foreheads? Rounded or squared jaws? And so on...

(I also might add, I never have understood why Jennifer Anniston is considered "hot", because really, she just doesn't do it for me - face-wise, that is - the bod's pretty good.)

And when you take the hair away from Brittney Spears (as we all saw a year or so ago) she's kinda... weird looking.

I'm just using those as examples, and don't mean to see this become a "Who do you think is hot?" thread. ;)

I'm wondering specifically, when you design a female character (or a male), and are shooting for realistic attractiveness, what do you use for reference? Your own preferences? Actual reference photos? Imagination or memory? Sketches? Actual scientifically-proven dimensions and ratios like daVinci and Michelangelo might have done? ...Luck?

Polygon flow aside, what makes an attractive 3D face?

hrgiger
11-09-2008, 07:11 AM
It's a good question, although it's a bit harder to answer. Like the Jennifer Aniston thing, it's also a subjective thing. I do find Jennifer Aniston attractive but the appeal with her is she looks like the girl next door, so attainability is a factor sometimes, at least for me.
Long flowing hair? I like short hair on girls. I also like a nose with some character to it. Think Jennifer Gray before and after her nose surgery. I thought she looked better before she fixed it. A lot of guys seem to like blonds and tan skin. I hate tan skin and like very pale skin (I'm a sucker for a redhead with that great translucent freckled skin).

I found this page:

http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/phil_Fak_II/Psychologie/Psy_II/beautycheck/english/index.htm (follow some of the links on the page)

hrgiger
11-09-2008, 07:22 AM
And when you take the hair away from Brittney Spears (as we all saw a year or so ago) she's kinda... weird looking.



And I should add, I thought Brittany never looked better then when she shaved her head. But then, I don't like this typical blond thing that most guys like.

Here's proof you don't need hair to be attractive. Go Angelina...

akademus
11-09-2008, 07:25 AM
They are charts of idealized facial proportions, traditionally thought in art schools. Google and you'll find them.

One thing I also find extremely useful so called Golden Mean beauty theory applied to human face. Face put inside the measures of these masks is usually considered pretty.

http://www.beautyanalysis.com/images/RFMask_printable.jpg

http://www.beautyanalysis.com/images/RLMask_printable.jpg

You can find more at http://www.beautyanalysis.com/index2_mba.htm

I hope this helps,

Cheers

cagey5
11-09-2008, 07:33 AM
This may have some useful information

http://www.uni-regensburg.de/Fakultaeten/phil_Fak_II/Psychologie/Psy_II/beautycheck/english/index.htm

Titus
11-09-2008, 07:36 AM
Here's proof you don't need hair to be attractive. Go Angelina...

Speak for yourself. She looks like his brother, yikes!

hrgiger
11-09-2008, 07:50 AM
Speak for yourself. She looks like his brother, yikes!

As I said, it's a lot of subjective. And you're crazy.

Titus
11-09-2008, 07:50 AM
What makes an attractive face?

We know beauty is based on proportions, and proportions on time and culture. If you say Angelina is pretty, sheīs beauty for just one convention of beauty.

For Mayans a beautiful woman had a long and stretched head, they compressed their heads with wood since they were kids, just like those poor Chinese women and their small feet.

IMI
11-09-2008, 08:02 AM
Thanks for the replies so far and the links - very informative!

bobakabob
11-09-2008, 10:19 AM
Good question for a thread. Are we pre-programmed to find certain facial features more attractive than others? Nature, nurture or both? Notions of beauty vary considerably over time from culture to culture.

In the West I would say the more economical, sharp and symmetrical the features the more 'attractive', the more irregular the less, though there's often too much emphasis on symmetry as slight 'flaws' can add to the effect.

Female:
Wide angular faces,
High cheekbones ('like geometry')
Well defined brows and delicate nose and jawline.
Eyes: Surprising how such great scaffolding can accomodate variations in the shape and colour of eyes, from large almond shaped to small and droopy at the edges - compare Loren to Kate Moss, they're both strikingly beautiful but have fundamentally similar heart shaped bone structures. The same seems to apply to lips - media stereotypes tend to emphasise a full pout but a small severe mouth can look attractive.

Case studies: Kate Moss, Cameron Diaz, Michelle Pfeiffer, Sophia Loren

Are links to Flickr working? Here's a flawed attempt to represent these theories the last time I made a (blue skinned) female face in Lightwave:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyrem/186006116/sizes/m/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyrem/186006116/sizes/m/

Male: As above but stronger, bolder features and angular jawline.

Case studies: Paul Newman, Gregory Peckory.

To further illustrate the concept of male attractiveness, here's an illustration of a friend:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyrem/186006113/sizes/m/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnnyrem/186006113/sizes/o/


"Am I hot or not?"

SplineGod
11-09-2008, 10:47 AM
Ive heard this helps...
http://www.beerhunter.com/images/covers/UltimateBeer.gif

bobakabob
11-09-2008, 11:26 AM
Ive heard this helps...


LOL!

OT: At risk of derailing the thread, this brings to mind a certain well known poster:

http://www.poster.net/anonymous/anonymous-beer-helping-ugly-people-have-sex-4900448.jpg

hydroclops
11-09-2008, 11:52 AM
Here's what I consider most interesting: Truly ridiculously "hot" men and women make a living as spokesmodels, soap opera actors, or porn stars. The biggest movie stars and even supermodels have a different, harder to define kind of attractiveness.

Also people have many different faces, depending on the angle we see them from. Kate Moss is highly regarded partly because she has "more faces" than most people and they all look good. Also there are two kinds of high-end fashion models. Those that are "good looking" and those that are weird-looking, aka "striking" or "interesting".

hydroclops
11-09-2008, 12:12 PM
IMI,

Here's more for what it's worth. How do you want your audience to react? Should they fall in love? get horny? Have empathy with? want to protect? relate to as a peer?

I used to work on TV commercials and there were some pretty strict rules in some cases. For example McDonald's would never cast someone sexy-hot because they wanted to present people that "anyone would feel comfortable sitting next to". Super good-looking people can be off-putting as well as attractive.

Also exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics (large tts, puffy lips, etc.) can come off as cheap, or heavy-handed, especially with synthetic characters.

Chris S. (Fez)
11-09-2008, 12:24 PM
I have an awful weakness for red-heads and half-asians. She also has to have a sense of humor and hate cats.

hydroclops
11-09-2008, 12:38 PM
Here are two "synthetic" women. Main characters from video games that I liked. I think they're both attractive...

virtualcomposer
11-10-2008, 04:26 PM
Here are two examples of what type of face structures I think are attractive. Mellisa Gilbert (had a crush on her when I was a kid) and the blonde from the FAME movie (also had a crush on her when I was a kid). Females in ballet are the best!! I also had a crush on Mallory from Family Ties back in the 80's. Oh those were the days. I had a girlfriend in college who looked like the girl from FAME in the picture. She was two years older then me and was beautiful! We ended up breaking up due to the fact she graduated before I did and things didn't work out.

virtualcomposer
11-10-2008, 04:36 PM
I also can't forget Wilma from Buck Rogers. :D

wacom
11-10-2008, 04:38 PM
I was going to say a few drinks...but it looks like I'm not alone!

I have to agree- from all I've read symmetry is tops- after that it's personal preference I guess. Still- dead on symmetry is a dead on giveaway of CG and boring as hell.

Then again maybe I'm just saying that because I look like a troll! A VERY interesting troll mind you...:yoda:

Mr Rid
11-10-2008, 05:43 PM
Most CG characters seriously fail at recreating realistic faces because they are much too symmetrical. And I find it a myth that symmetry is necessarily appealing. Drew Barrymore and Alicia Silvertsone have surprisingly warped symmetry and crooked mouths. Assymetry is more prevalent in celebs than you might at first perceive.

A little game is to look into a mirror while holding a second mirror at least the size of your head with one edge at the middle of your face and angle it so that the left side of your face is reflected symmetrically on the right. Or do the same with the right side of your face (or use photoshop if you have a straight on, evenly lit picture). You will see two rather different looking people. What's more interesting is that one side will have a more distinctly benevolent expression while the other will appear more sinister. Models are aware of their 'good side.'

I used to do portraits for a living, have studied female faces very carefully, and noticed something curious about the eyes of women popularly labeled as 'beautiful', as well as photogenic women I know. Dont know what it means, but in most cases the left eye is noticeably narrower than the right. I find it in just about any clear image of female models/celebrities posing with somewhat neutral, straight-on facial expressions.

prometheus
11-10-2008, 06:33 PM
Dont know what it means, but in most cases the left eye is noticeably narrower than the right. I find it in just about any clear image of female models/celebrities posing with somewhat neutral, straight-on facial expressions.

yeah..thatīs funny I have always thought that is attractive in a women too..
left eyes a little narrower sort of small flirting or giving a hint that sheīs having a secret.
itīs some sort of asymetric beauty, full symmetry gives a static non alive expression while asymetry feels alive.
generally they seem to say that big eyes and lips are attractive angelina jolin style..but that is also confusing..for me it can be attractive but also the other way around when itīs small narrow eyes, and small thin lips like bridget fonda style.

yezz...there is and have been so many beautiful women out there so it would take up this entire forum.
A lot have to do with personal references also, and personality.

well have to name a few..bridget fonda,demi moore,elisabeth hurley,meg ryan,sandra bullock,sean young,rosanna arquette, well ..I have to stop there..could go on for ever and thereīs a lot swedish woman that you wouldnīt know anything about.

now I got to take me that drink before I take a look in to my mirror.

Oops..I might be a little narrow minded..I didnīt go down the good looking guy road:)
OOps..missed a couple of woman...natalie portman especially shaved, sinead o connor especially shaved, perhaps sigourney weaver shaved..ahh letīs see..kate bush maybe because sheīs the best singer around:)


Michael

Snosrap
11-10-2008, 06:39 PM
What makes an attractive face? Answer: Big breasts:D

Cheers
Snosrap

Matt
11-10-2008, 06:41 PM
Well, if we're talking sexy manliness, you can't go wrong with this fine specimen!

The Über Male! (http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63077&d=1221022257)

:D

prometheus
11-10-2008, 07:26 PM
Well, if we're talking sexy manliness, you can't go wrong with this fine specimen!
:D

Oh..no, not that guy from scrubs again:)

Ive heard about a guy over there in the us..saying, Yahh..letīs build some muscles to keep this country strong and well.

He was pretty successfull I think, starting off by winning 5? world titles, then showing his pretty face on the white screen along with some fantastic speaches until he went in to the race for becoming the first non us citizen to be president.
Im sure hes not "one uggly m..f " quote from one of the movies.

Strong features in the face..I still love that conan movie.

Michael

Greenlaw
11-10-2008, 07:29 PM
Years ago, a friend of mine was obsessed with correcting Shannon Doherty's asymmetrical eyes. Everytime he found a new photo of her, straight into Photoshop it went. He must have 'fixed' hundreds of pictures of her face.

Thank goodness, he's over that now. At least I think he is. :)

DRG

IMI
11-10-2008, 07:41 PM
Most CG characters seriously fail at recreating realistic faces because they are much too symmetrical. And I find it a myth that symmetry is necessarily appealing. Drew Barrymore and Alicia Silvertsone have surprisingly warped symmetry and crooked mouths. Assymetry is more prevalent in celebs than you might at first perceive.

A little game is to look into a mirror while holding a second mirror at least the size of your head with one edge at the middle of your face and angle it so that the left side of your face is reflected symmetrically on the right. Or do the same with the right side of your face (or use photoshop if you have a straight on, evenly lit picture). You will see two rather different looking people. What's more interesting is that one side will have a more distinctly benevolent expression while the other will appear more sinister. Models are aware of their 'good side.'

I used to do portraits for a living, have studied female faces very carefully, and noticed something curious about the eyes of women popularly labeled as 'beautiful', as well as photogenic women I know. Dont know what it means, but in most cases the left eye is noticeably narrower than the right. I find it in just about any clear image of female models/celebrities posing with somewhat neutral, straight-on facial expressions.

Very interesting, Mr Rid, thanks for the input.

I was thinking symmetry or lack thereof, too - it's one of the first things I look for in a CG face. I don't think it would even be possible for a human to have perfect symmetry.

CMT
11-11-2008, 01:56 PM
Well if we look at supermodels, the more symmetrical, the better. That's what those in the industry look for. Adriana Lima is a good example. I fell for those eyes instantly....

But most models looks sexy, but plain, if you know what I mean. Could possibly be because of the symmetry, but I don't think symmetry matters all that much. I just think it's delicate features, big eyes, full lips, and not overly masculine (like Madonna).

Personally, I like slightly darker complexions, jet black hair and Asian features. Which is why I married a Filipina. :D

footfur
11-12-2008, 08:31 AM
Dont know if this helps but iVe always found this feature in most "attractive" women. Their boobs( each indvidual one) are the same size as thier face when measured from (x-axis) outer part of eye to other outer part of eye and on (y-axis) from chin to eyebrows. Almost every singe playmate of the month has these dimensions and/or anyone the media goes goo goo over

archijam
11-12-2008, 03:56 PM
... (y-axis) from chin to eyebrows. ...

Spot the LW user :)

ps. I wish HR would stop bringing up Jennifer Aniston on these forums, I have to go and be sick every time.

Stooch
11-12-2008, 04:10 PM
Years ago, a friend of mine was obsessed with correcting Shannon Doherty's asymmetrical eyes. Everytime he found a new photo of her, straight into Photoshop it went. He must have 'fixed' hundreds of pictures of her face.

Thank goodness, he's over that now. At least I think he is. :)

DRG

that sounds like a deep emotional fixation. he should seek help :)

cresshead
11-13-2008, 06:40 AM
Years ago, a friend of mine was obsessed with correcting Shannon Doherty's asymmetrical eyes. Everytime he found a new photo of her, straight into Photoshop it went. He must have 'fixed' hundreds of pictures of her face.

Thank goodness, he's over that now. At least I think he is. :)

DRG


hmm
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/1/8/b/18b1362426647ff93997d42d2ba88f81.jpg