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Andyjaggy
11-04-2008, 10:32 AM
It's out, I'm gonna check it out and see if it's worth it. Probably not but maybe I will be surprised.

Andyjaggy
11-04-2008, 10:51 AM
Doesn't look like there is a trial version. Oh well.

calilifestyle
11-04-2008, 10:58 AM
wow talk about ripp off, http://www.e-onsoftware.com/buy/?page=pricelist.

standard Maintenance

Premium Maintenance

fees. lol

archijam
11-04-2008, 11:07 AM
... And still only that same max example.. Not a good start eon-

Dexter2999
11-04-2008, 11:20 AM
$435 for the Upgrade from Vue 6 Infinite to Vue 7 Inifinite

$695 to go from Vue 6 Infinite to Vue 7 XStream

Andyjaggy
11-04-2008, 11:20 AM
Oh no kidding, their price list is about 5 pages long, are they deliberately trying to make buying their product as difficult and confusing as possible. With 7 different version, and sidegrades and upgrades, and service plans, and render nodes, I think there is about 500 different combinations there.

calilifestyle
11-04-2008, 11:24 AM
10 different prices for xstream
Vue 7 xStream – Boxed


US$1,235

1,033

Ģ797

US$1,235
Vue 7 xStream – Boxed + Standard Maintenance


US$1,830

1,530

Ģ1,181

US$1,830
Vue 7 xStream – Boxed + Premium Maintenance


US$2,230

1,865

Ģ1,439

US$2,230
Vue 7 xStream – DVD Box


US$1,195

999

Ģ771

US$1,195
Vue 7 xStream – DVD Box + Standard Maintenance


US$1,790

1,497

Ģ1,155

US$1,790
Vue 7 xStream – DVD Box + Premium Maintenance


US$2,190

1,831

Ģ1,413

US$2,190
Vue 7 xStream – Download


US$1,195

US$1,195

US$1,195

US$1,195
Vue 7 xStream – Download + Standard Maintenance


US$1,790

US$1,790

US$1,790

US$1,790
Vue 7 xStream – Download + Premium Maintenance


US$2,190

US$2,190

US$2,190

US$2,190
Convenience Pack For Vue 7 xStream


US$49

41

Ģ32

US$49

IMI
11-04-2008, 11:26 AM
Oh no kidding, their price list is about 5 pages long, are they deliberately trying to make buying their product as difficult and confusing as possible. With 7 different version, and sidegrades and upgrades, and service plans, and render nodes, I think there is about 500 different combinations there.

Yeah, just like in that other thread a couple weeks ago.
No surprise Vue has become buggier with each new release - it looks like they spend more time dreaming up pricing than working on the product.
They certainly seem to devote more web space to the pricing than the features.

Andyjaggy
11-04-2008, 11:41 AM
Actually there is a fair bit of info on the new features in 7. I just spent about 30 minutes going through them all. To me it actually looks like a very promising release, if it works anyway. Their licensing and pricing is so jacked up though. Then you have the nodelocked and floating, and by the end you've spent a month trying to figure out which one you actually need to buy and you hired an accountant to figure out how much it was going to cost you.

3DGFXStudios
11-04-2008, 11:56 AM
WTF....those guys are crazy!

wellsichris
11-04-2008, 12:08 PM
the thing that makes me wonder is, ever time they say,

5 extreme, -- completely integrated in your 3d app.
6 extreme, --- no no, seriously guys, fully integrated this time
7 extreme, --- I kid you not, it really is 100% integrated into your 3d app with this release,

so it's anyones guess. if it really is. they also say each time. it's so much faster. 6 times faster than really, really slow, is just slow? i guess. They also say each time they have fixed the AA issues. I saw the demo at siggraph and it looked pretty good, but it also looked super buggy. he keep saying remember this is in early beta. that was at siggraph. so hopefully it has come along way in a short time.

I really want it to work, but I have my doubts,

IMI
11-04-2008, 12:21 PM
the thing that makes me wonder is, ever time they say,

5 extreme, -- completely integrated in your 3d app.
6 extreme, --- no no, seriously guys, fully integrated this time
7 extreme, --- I kid you not, it really is 100% integrated into your 3d app with this release,
[quote]

:lol:

[quote]
I saw the demo at siggraph and it looked pretty good, but it also looked super buggy. he keep saying remember this is in early beta. that was at siggraph. so hopefully it has come along way in a short time.



Vue's "bugs" are not really bugs. They're part of Vue's personality; a Vue tradition, if you will.

And thus begins Vue 7 Open Public Beta...

wp_capozzi
11-04-2008, 12:21 PM
I'm still looking on their site, but I haven't located an upgrade price for Vue5i to Vue7i. Hard to believe they left out a pricing option.

Reading through the new features, it looks quite nice. Nice renderings. I'm anxious to hear reports on how well it works and some render times.

clagman
11-04-2008, 12:25 PM
Cripes, it looks fantastic. I must say that I won't be the first to purchase ;o)

IMI
11-04-2008, 12:37 PM
Says it (Vue 7 xStream) works with the 32 and 64 bit versions of LW 9.3 and 9.5 for Windows and Mac, so that's a plus.
If it's true, that is. ;)

calilifestyle
11-04-2008, 12:38 PM
Ok i like how its 99 dollars to upgrade Vue infinite 6 to vue 7 complete. wouldn't this be a down grade and shouldn't they then pay you to take this off there hands lol

Vue 7 Infinite retails for $895, with upgrades from Vue 6 Infinite available for $395

IMI
11-04-2008, 12:40 PM
Ok i like how its 99 dollars to upgrade Vue infinite 6 to vue 7 complete. wouldn't this be a down grade and shouldn't they then pay you to take this off there hands lol

Vue 7 Infinite retails for $895, with upgrades from Vue 6 Infinite available for $395

Dude, don't torture yourself. That pricing page is designed to exhaust your reasoning power, to weaken your defenses. I feel like taking a nap just after reading it all. ;)

IMI
11-04-2008, 12:45 PM
Their Show Reel (http://mirror-europe.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/videos/Vue_7_Show_Reel_%5B640x360%5D_h264_web.mov) looks pretty damn good, I have to say...

tonybliss
11-04-2008, 12:49 PM
nah for now upgrade is 435 with box
and 395 for d/l version temporrily

and its worth it .. you can use mutie apps with it no sep lic again and you work directly in the app .. thats enough for me

plus tons of other important production features

archijam
11-04-2008, 12:52 PM
nah for now upgrade is 435 with box
and 395 for d/l version temporrily

and its worth it .. you can use mutie apps with it no sep lic again and you work directly in the app .. thats enough for me

plus tons of other important production features

Thankyou for shopping with E-on! :thumbsup:

Make us a vid? We want to see LW xstream integration already! :D

IMI
11-04-2008, 01:00 PM
Thankyou for shopping with E-on! :thumbsup:

Make us a vid? We want to see LW xstream integration already! :D

Yes, I emphatically agree!
I've seen Vue 6 xStream in use with LW (if you want to call crashing and rendering ultra-slow "in use"), and I was ... less than impressed. The same scene rendered in the main Vue app more than twice as fast. Made me wonder, why even bother sending it to LW?

calilifestyle
11-04-2008, 01:50 PM
Over on the cgtalk site . their saying that 7.5 is going to be a paid upgrade, and they are already announcing that it will be out middle of next year. i think these guys are going into whole a different direction then most apps.

"Point-Five Releases

In the course of the coming year, we will be releasing Vue 7.5. This paid-for ".5" release will introduce new features and technologies. These new features and technologies are undisclosed at this point.

Service Packs (former software updates) will remain free of charge for everyone."

AND
"Priority Support and Maintenance Plans

On top of the standard support services provided by e-on software, registered users of Vue 7 xStream and Vue 7 Infinite now have access to the following advanced support options:

* Per-Incident Priority Support: flexible, pay-per-incident priority telephone support with qualified e-on software technicians, advanced diagnosis and follow-up support until the incident is resolved.
* Standard or Premium Maintenance Plans: based on a yearly subscription, these plans include advanced support services as well as free .5 and full upgrades during the subscription period (including the upcoming Vue 7.5). The benefits of both plans vary: check the comprehensive descriptions here."

calilifestyle
11-04-2008, 01:57 PM
So since ever one was complaining that there customer support sucked...
they now offer a 3 payed versions of the suck(y) support.

dgrigo
11-04-2008, 02:34 PM
Ok Guys .. don't hook yourself.. i updated to not loose the first 800 i paid.. don't work even in standalone...

IMI
11-04-2008, 02:36 PM
Ok Guys .. don't hook yourself.. i updated to not loose the first 800 i paid.. don't work even in standalone...

What do you mean? Are you saying you bought the upgrade and you can't run it?

Andyjaggy
11-04-2008, 02:38 PM
the thing that makes me wonder is, ever time they say,

5 extreme, -- completely integrated in your 3d app.
6 extreme, --- no no, seriously guys, fully integrated this time
7 extreme, --- I kid you not, it really is 100% integrated into your 3d app with this release,

so it's anyones guess. if it really is. they also say each time. it's so much faster. 6 times faster than really, really slow, is just slow? i guess. They also say each time they have fixed the AA issues. I saw the demo at siggraph and it looked pretty good, but it also looked super buggy. he keep saying remember this is in early beta. that was at siggraph. so hopefully it has come along way in a short time.

I really want it to work, but I have my doubts,

Yep they aren't getting one more cent from me until I have a demo installed and see it working properly on my computer. Until then I'll stick with Vue 6, after two years I have most of the bugs figured out and it's pretty usable for me at the moment.

dgrigo
11-04-2008, 02:48 PM
Yes .. i got the upgrade , i am saying it crashes badly already have send some reports through their crash report..
Lastly i got in lightwave .. and just selected new from the menu.. kaboom..
Why i bought it.. I had already Xtreme6 and anyway was not working at all as plugin in 9.5, so i had already 899 invested in that.. paid 310 more to get the Fix.... but i was prepared it will be like this.
Half the pain if you are prepared...

Anyone sell any Fix .. :confused:

archijam
11-04-2008, 03:00 PM
Ouch. Say it ain't so.

IMI
11-04-2008, 03:00 PM
Yes .. i got the upgrade , i am saying it crashes badly already have send some reports through their crash report..
Lastly i got in lightwave .. and just selected new from the menu.. kaboom..
Why i bought it.. I had already Xtreme6 and anyway was not working at all as plugin in 9.5, so i had already 899 invested in that.. paid 310 more to get the Fix.... but i was prepared it will be like this.
Half the pain if you are prepared...

Anyone sell any Fix .. :confused:

Wow, sorry to hear that, really. :(

Sounds like business as usual for e-on, though. They sell betas and maybe some of the issues get fixed if they get around to it in free time between working on the next version. If not, you can just hope for the best in the next release...

Andyjaggy
11-04-2008, 03:41 PM
Sorry to hear that man. Sorry not only for you but because I really wanted this version to be the version that finally works as promised.

dgrigo
11-04-2008, 04:46 PM
Oh well thanks guys..
Well maybe i should check 9.5 .. with the 9.5.1 beta is a no no.
I will keep you updated on this in case you are interested.

Cozfx
11-04-2008, 05:07 PM
Has anybody got this working yet? I want to upgrade. I'm excited about the integration but it needs to be FULL integration this time although I doubt it will ever work with FPrime.

I need to read their refund policy before I try to upgrade. :)

dgrigo
11-04-2008, 05:13 PM
Not working also on 9.5.. hmm i think i will delete configs etc.. no reply from their support still..
But if it will work should be so good.. its fully integrated, every option is inside Lightwave.
Don't be excited tho it still doesn't work.

Andyjaggy
11-04-2008, 06:17 PM
Can you post a screenshot of the integration?

dgrigo
11-04-2008, 07:21 PM
The only thing that is not integrated is Ecosystem paint and i paste some info on this.
Nothing extreme, a plain menu that you add on lightwave menu system.

You don’t need to use the Vue interface anymore to edit your Vue scene. All actions you were previously doing in the Vue interface can now be done directly in the target application,either by using the target application tools (transformation tools, scripts, etc.) or the xStream commands accessed from the xStream menu. It is now actually possible to create an entire natural
environment directly from your target application!

It’s possible to paint EcoSystems directly in the view ports of 3ds Max and Cinema 4D. At the time of writing, painting is not yet supported in Maya, LightWave and XSI, due to limitations in the corresponding SDKs. We are working with Autodesk, Newtek and Softimage so they can add the
hooks in their SDKs that are required to enable this feature.

Wish was working tho.. but! it works on a friends Computer very well on C4D.
So either they need better lw programmers or they let lightwave last.
My feeling is its in alfa stage...

Cozfx
11-04-2008, 08:27 PM
The only thing that is not integrated is Ecosystem paint and i paste some info on this.
Nothing extreme, a plain menu that you add on lightwave menu system.

You don’t need to use the Vue interface anymore to edit your Vue scene. All actions you were previously doing in the Vue interface can now be done directly in the target application,either by using the target application tools (transformation tools, scripts, etc.) or the xStream commands accessed from the xStream menu. It is now actually possible to create an entire natural
environment directly from your target application!

It’s possible to paint EcoSystems directly in the view ports of 3ds Max and Cinema 4D. At the time of writing, painting is not yet supported in Maya, LightWave and XSI, due to limitations in the corresponding SDKs. We are working with Autodesk, Newtek and Softimage so they can add the
hooks in their SDKs that are required to enable this feature.

Wish was working tho.. but! it works on a friends Computer very well on C4D.
So either they need better lw programmers or they let lightwave last.
My feeling is its in alfa stage...

Why is this information not on their website? They make it appear all the features are integrated. Disappointing.

dgrigo
11-04-2008, 09:14 PM
Some progress.. i removed all my plugins and deleted all configs etc.. reinstalled everything from scratch, except plugins in lw , cleaned registry from VUE 6 etc..
Last 20 min no crash, playing with the settings adding objects editting materials etc, or trees, doing modifications and renders..
So far so good..
fingers crossed.. for sure have shown instability.

Cozfx
11-04-2008, 09:26 PM
Some progress.. i removed all my plugins and deleted all configs etc.. reinstalled everything from scratch, except plugins in lw , cleaned registry from VUE 6 etc..
Last 20 min no crash, playing with the settings adding objects editting materials etc, or trees, doing modifications and renders..
So far so good..
fingers crossed.. for sure have shown instability.

Fully integrated? Including paint environment?

OOZZEE
11-04-2008, 10:15 PM
wow...messed up pricing system...here's what I think they should know about that...

they suck...no no wait..

they really suck.... no no wait...

they truly 100% suck.... no no wait...

they sincerely bite the biggy and they suck....

dgrigo
11-04-2008, 11:16 PM
Well.. i guess that was it... i am done with Eon folks.
They don't respond and when i checked my account ...

Maintenance Plans
None of your products are under maintenance. Click here for details on putting your products under maintenance.

NOW i am [email protected]
Spread the word! they are way too greedy for releasing a beta.. well an alpha version and wanting money for support.
I hope they get what they deserve at the end.
:devil::mad:

Cozfx
11-04-2008, 11:50 PM
Well.. i guess that was it... i am done with Eon folks.
They don't respond and when i checked my account ...

Maintenance Plans
None of your products are under maintenance. Click here for details on putting your products under maintenance.

NOW i am [email protected]
Spread the word! they are way too greedy for releasing a beta.. well an alpha version and wanting money for support.
I hope they get what they deserve at the end.
:devil::mad:

Not to mention every time you want to add a decent tree or bush its a $$$ item.

I think its a much needed asset to any 3D arsenal but just because it shows up in a couple blockbusters is no reason to get crazy with the pricing. I have XStream 6 but an upgrade to 7 may have to wait until its cost effective for a project and stable. A pricey maintenance plan raises some flags. :thumbsdow

bjornkn
11-05-2008, 01:28 AM
High prices, and I haven't really used Vue for a long while (hd_Instance works great :), so probably won't upgrade.

But at least eon did one thing right - they don't charge us Europeans 50%-100% more than in the US, like Adobe, Autodesk and many others do!

dgrigo
11-05-2008, 01:37 AM
I think this is my last Update on that matter.
I found out a nasty incompatibility that was crashing the Vue plugin.
The file was the Native blenderfluid file format plug in.
For those that don't recognize by name here is the link.
http://www.flay.com/GetDetail.CFM?ID=2448
That said, VUE is not rock solid...
Hope that helps anyone who may experience the same problems.
I have send the info to both parties, Eon and splotchdog.

:compbeati

starbase1
11-05-2008, 04:51 AM
I think the new feature list is more impressive than I was expecting, and if it works as they say I may well reconsider.

The complex pricing is not a big issue for me in itself, (though it is dumb).

What worries me is what it implies. I suspect that this means the pain of moving over to a new box install will be even worse than it was before, (and it was a nightmare then).

I suspect that this is at the root of why you have to reinstall the first full version you ever had, and then work though each step "activating" as you go. They need to check if you bought an upgrade from a a more expensive version than you have...

I have no objection to paying for software I use.

I do object to the software equivalent of a full body cavity search to install the stuff. And it's the last time they take their rubber gloves to me as I bend over, thank you very much.

The Dommo
11-05-2008, 05:26 AM
If it does work as promised.... eventually.... I'll defo be wanting...

IMI
11-05-2008, 05:37 AM
I think the new feature list is more impressive than I was expecting, and if it works as they say I may well reconsider.


Well, be sure to let us know if you get it and if it works.
I think it looks amazing and I'd even consider it, but due to past Vue experience there's no way in Hell I'm going to just trust that without irrefutable proof beforehand. I will not pay anyone to be a beta tester, certainly not that kind of money, certainly not with their piss-poor record of what they call "service".
And to me it's ludicrous to charge for service. What that tells me is if you don't buy ONE of their plans, you can expect nothing. Hell, their service plan has typically been *nothing* for years now, so I'm really not expecting even the pay plans to work well for anyone.



I do object to the software equivalent of a full body cavity search to install the stuff. And it's the last time they take their rubber gloves to me as I bend over, thank you very much.

Still doing that, huh?
I remember once just to get to Vue 4.22 I had to install all three versions I had, plus several incremental upgrades and patches along the way, not to mention quite a long time individually licensing all the extra plants I had bought. Just silly.

God, I hope nobody uses Vue for any more major successful productions any time soon. Maybe then they'd get some sense about them!

starbase1
11-05-2008, 05:45 AM
Still doing that, huh?
I remember once just to get to Vue 4.22 I had to install all three versions I had, plus several incremental upgrades and patches along the way, not to mention quite a long time individually licensing all the extra plants I had bought. Just silly.

God, I hope nobody uses Vue for any more major successful productions any time soon. Maybe then they'd get some sense about them!

They say they have changed it, but it sounds like an extra latyer to me... Sell me a ***ing dongle and be done with it...

beverins
11-05-2008, 09:48 AM
I just bought it for the EDU price of $149 so I'll let y'all know. However, I'm not a Vue expert by any means (as an example I pretty much just use the presets and never have bothered with the node editors - yet), but I can report on the overall functionality

virtualcomposer
11-05-2008, 09:51 AM
Have we all noticed that most, if not nearly all of us, don't like hardly anything about E-on?? Good product when it works properly but that's it. Seems to me that they're trying to sell us snake oil for gold. I saw allot of Vue 6 animations in the Vue 7. Probably because they couldn't render it fast enough to get the video out in time.

Sekhar
11-05-2008, 10:20 AM
I think this is my last Update on that matter.
:compbeati

Dgrigo, did you have xStream 6 also? If yes, did you see any big speedups in render times? E-on is talking of upto 4x...

Cozfx
11-05-2008, 10:20 AM
double post

Cozfx
11-05-2008, 10:24 AM
Have we all noticed that most, if not nearly all of us, don't like hardly anything about E-on?? Good product when it works properly but that's it. Seems to me that they're trying to sell us snake oil for gold. I saw allot of Vue 6 animations in the Vue 7. Probably because they couldn't render it fast enough to get the video out in time.

A good, stable, plugin with solid support can't be beat. All of us have been on a deadline at one time or another and cannot afford buggy software. We don't know yet if this is buggy. Its been solid for me in the past as an external program and I use it frequently to export custom trees and such to LW. Version 7 does seem premature due to the lack of LW demo videos. All of which could take 10 minutes to make and post. So E-on if you're listening, show us the money!

FPrime: Stable, extremely useful, good videos, good support, 7/10 for features
LWCAD: Stable, extremely useful, good videos, good manuals (not great)
Vertibevel: Stable, very useful, good videos, excellent installation features, good support, good price

Vue 6: somewhat stable, poor integration, pricey, very useful, Fancy version of Bryce, good online 3rd party training($$$), new videos are nice, poor installation features, slow.

Vue 7: ???


By useful, I mean "time=money" :deal:

Cozfx
11-05-2008, 10:31 AM
Have we all noticed that most, if not nearly all of us, don't like hardly anything about E-on?? Good product when it works properly but that's it. Seems to me that they're trying to sell us snake oil for gold. I saw allot of Vue 6 animations in the Vue 7. Probably because they couldn't render it fast enough to get the video out in time.

BTW nice shot of Airwolf. Designed by good guy and great artist, Andy Probert. :thumbsup: Was that in a museum?

kremesch73
11-05-2008, 10:32 AM
Hm. I completely skipped upgrading to six, and now I don't see any upgrade for ver. 5 owners. From the sounds of it though, maybe I'm not missing out on anything.

beverins
11-05-2008, 10:53 AM
I have an error in the install, no plugin interface! I get this..

others have gotten this error?

dgrigo
11-05-2008, 11:21 AM
@Sekhar Yes i have it and sure i see a speed increase, but cant do any benchmark as i had it uninstalled , and somehow it feels secure to not mess with the system now, you know i had clean registry etc.

@beverins Oh , no don't add the plug ins mate like this, go into lightwave menu editor and add a branch that's inside Vue , cant recall exactly the directory but for sure in subdirectory .../Xtream/lightwave.
Inside you will find a cfg file .. add to your preferred menu and you will get all VUE menu branches.
Hope this helps.

dgrigo
11-05-2008, 11:25 AM
@kremesch73
If it can be of any help, Contact a sales representative in VUE ,and just ask for a special.
If you hit the right person i think they can do something, hoping that the 5 you have was not any bundle.

dballesg
11-05-2008, 11:29 AM
I have an error in the install, no plugin interface! I get this..

others have gotten this error?

Look on

C:\Program Files (x86)\e-on software\Vue 7 xStream\Environment\xStream\lightwave 9

You have there a Vue7xStream_Menus.cfg to load as a branch in the Configure Menus of LW (Alt+F10).

BTW Page 564 of xStream7 manual! ;)

David

beverins
11-05-2008, 12:04 PM
Ok, now that I got that sorted - THANKS DBALLESG and DGRIGO! :-)

Yeah, I should have read the manual - though one would think this info would be not on page 564 but on page 20 or something...

Anyway, first bug is that it doesn't load in incorporated scenes saved out. I dunno what's about, but I've had that before in X6 so it's something else I'm doing wrong.

I really hope that Newtek work with e-on to get the additional SDK hooks, I don't want to wait for LW10 to get a plugin working. E-on might just decide not to bother with LW anymore if Newtek is slow out of the gate with this (yes, I know they have a lot of others do).

dgrigo
11-05-2008, 12:22 PM
It loads them. what you get when you try open from VUe menu, not from Layout import or load.

At least if you don't see anything and lw is rock solid you do something wrong.

beverins
11-05-2008, 01:23 PM
It loads them. what you get when you try open from VUe menu, not from Layout import or load.

At least if you don't see anything and lw is rock solid you do something wrong.

Loading in .vue scenes from the 7X menu works fine. It was the LW Load that was giving me problems, but I see I have to clear scene before I try to load in a replacement LW+vue .lws

I don't (as yet) see any speed increase with the default (read: slowest) settings.

OK, here's another question - now X7 does not let me deactivate Trace Refraction / Trace Transparency unless I do it through the Vue render options.. or does it? I turn them off but when I press F9 it turns them back on. I'm used to the 6X way of working, so this will take some time I see. I used to be able to turn off Trace options in LW and Vue would obey. Again, I expect it's user error and I suppose I should actually read the manual, eh?

calilifestyle
11-05-2008, 01:40 PM
Here's a post from cgtalk, on upgrading from version 5 to 7 and the link
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5475188#post5475188
"pparently my loyalty is appreciated...??
Just thought to pass along the response to my question of upgrade from 5 to 7??
____________________________________________
Customer service, Hello...
I spoke to a customer rep. who had no answer, wandered around your site, no answer. I have Version 4 and 5, but did not upgrade to 6 due to the instability throughout the release cycle. I monitor and contribute to 8 different CG forums, included reading yours, and the stability was an issue for me and others. I am watching this release closely, as are many others and am excited about it's potential. I own multiple different software programs and "Suites" which encourage upgrades to previous customers. I am curious regarding your consideration of my loyalty in the past.
Thank you for your consideration.
Paul

VUE4PRO-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-0330
INST-xxxxx-xxxxx-BHR-VUE5INF
_________________________________
Hi Paul,

While we appreciate your loyalty to Vue, I'm afraid there is no upgrade path from Vue 5 to Vue 7. Sorry.

Best regards.
Lxxxx Rxxxxxxxx
____________________________________________
Paul
__________________
An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind... Gandhi/MLKing
Consciousness is worth the effort... be aware. "

Andyjaggy
11-05-2008, 03:02 PM
Gotta love E-on, I think they take the cake for the worst 3D company ever.

kopperdrake
11-05-2008, 03:48 PM
No upgrade path?! So does that mean you have to upgrade to 6, then to 7?

E-on stinks - they make lovely pictures with Vue, but the whole picture of their company, its promises, pricing policies and support feels akin to a polished turd.

kremesch73
11-05-2008, 05:29 PM
Here's a post from cgtalk, on upgrading from version 5 to 7 and the link
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=5475188#post5475188
"pparently my loyalty is appreciated...??
Just thought to pass along the response to my question of upgrade from 5 to 7??
____________________________________________
Customer service, Hello...
I spoke to a customer rep. who had no answer, wandered around your site, no answer. I have Version 4 and 5, but did not upgrade to 6 due to the instability throughout the release cycle. I monitor and contribute to 8 different CG forums, included reading yours, and the stability was an issue for me and others. I am watching this release closely, as are many others and am excited about it's potential. I own multiple different software programs and "Suites" which encourage upgrades to previous customers. I am curious regarding your consideration of my loyalty in the past.
Thank you for your consideration.
Paul

VUE4PRO-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-0330
INST-xxxxx-xxxxx-BHR-VUE5INF
_________________________________
Hi Paul,

While we appreciate your loyalty to Vue, I'm afraid there is no upgrade path from Vue 5 to Vue 7. Sorry.

Best regards.
Lxxxx Rxxxxxxxx
____________________________________________
Paul
__________________
An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind... Gandhi/MLKing
Consciousness is worth the effort... be aware. "

Hm. Well... guess I'm done with Vue then - not gonna pay full price again - that's bull...

MachineClaw
11-05-2008, 07:01 PM
When I bought the Lightwave upgrade I got the Vue 5 Infinate. I was told by E-On that my copy of Vue 5i was not upgradeable to vue 6i, great sucks to be me. Yet others were able to upgrade and I just found found out about it. Come to find out that now that Vue 7i is out and Vue 6 ain't around I cannot upgrade from Vue5i to Vue7i.

E-On <<Shakes Head>> I simply do not get that company, and they don't get my money.

virtualcomposer
11-05-2008, 07:31 PM
Sounds to me that E-on's only product is Vue or pieces of it. If they don't start treating people right and previous customers right, they're going to be serving handburgers to all of us. There is no excuse for a company to treat customers this way. Nearly none of us are going to buy and they are going to have the reputation of a company that doesn't care, fix or do anything and yet you pay full price. No thanks!! I was going to buy Ozone but forget it. Probrably full of unfixed bugs anyway. :cursin::mad:

Andyjaggy
11-05-2008, 08:16 PM
Too bad they have the only good solution for creating landscapes and vegetation, and my guess is they know it, and that's why they think they can get away with it.

I know people are always talking about just using HD Instance to do your vegetation, but I have yet to see any examples that even come close to what I can create in Vue in a matter of hours.

IMI
11-05-2008, 08:29 PM
Too bad they have the only good solution for creating landscapes and vegetation, and my guess is they know it, and that's why they think they can get away with it.

I know people are always talking about just using HD Instance to do your vegetation, but I have yet to see any examples that even come close to what I can create in Vue in a matter of hours.

That hardly matters anyway, if their support for xStream with LW is going to continue to be the lowest priority. Max, maya, C4D... oh yeah, sure, we have a LW plugin sitting around here somewhere we let the junior programmers work on from time to time...

Andrew March
11-05-2008, 11:01 PM
Don't worry, they'll get bought by Autodesk and turned into bitches.

wp_capozzi
11-06-2008, 12:19 AM
I thought it was pretty inventive how they potentially found a way to charge for buggy software. I'm guessing that is what the maintenance options are all about. Being a Vue5i user, I was really hoping to be able to upgrade to Vue7i and enjoy all of the new and stable features, reduced flickering and better render times. I suppose my hopes are a little too high at the moment.
Mean time I'll be happy to use what I have, LW bits and pieces, HDInstance, AE compositing, and whatever else I can find to fill the need, until I see proof of something worth what they are asking.

rakker16mm
11-06-2008, 12:53 AM
I have Vue6 xStream and I really like the software, but I don't see anything in Vue7 that makes me feel like upgrading at this time. I think if you have Vue5 or 6 you may just get more bang for the buck investing in some good compositing software anyway, and you might even have some money left over.

starbase1
11-06-2008, 03:40 AM
I thought it was pretty inventive how they potentially found a way to charge for buggy software. I'm guessing that is what the maintenance options are all about.

Yep! Why take on the difficult job of writing stable code when you can turn bugs into a revenue stream?

tonybliss
11-06-2008, 04:16 AM
uhm .....

I just installed and tested the 64 bit version of Xstream and so far no crashes .. renders a little bit too fast for my previous expectations :P and it works a s said .. its pretty much most of vue in LW ...

as for the pricing for xstream etc ... Don'yt hate me .. but its geared for professional production(frelancers and houses), you see E-on knows the kind of money that you can make with their software and jumped on the bandwagon of pricing acordingly
eg. 1195/1495 USD for XSTream
595 for basic service
300 two render noders on two dual quadcores
65 per dedicated bug fix/service with developer/programmer/technician per issue only if needed
= 2455 which includes some things that is not necessary for all situations and this is the price after the sale price for 1195 has gone in feb 2009 .. so its overpriced atm

angry third world sweatbox price per job that rquires a bit of animation using photorealistic scenary for a 30 sec ad for a resectable company = $3000 USD

do the math

they also realised that most hobbiest don't use all of the features so they have watered down versions of it which you can add features per module ....
They win, but if youreally look at it you can win to .. relax and enjoy as a hobbiest and make some more money with cutting edge tools (really not as buggy as some ppl make it out to be)

LW has really spoiled us as to the prices of professioal software out there .. XSI essentials is 3000 USD and worth it IMHO although not sure of its fate with AD
MAya and 3dsmax is way above that and not as much worthy as XSI IMO
LW is 895 and getting there a decent value for what you get and what you can get via plugin availibility eg LWCAD and FPrime (lets see what Mr. Worley is up too)

I will try to put up a workflow video asap if someone does not beat me to it ....

but i am loving it so far and felt i should let you guys know that ...

Thanks David for the tip on the config .. would have never found that on my own without turning one of my locks gray :P

archijam
11-06-2008, 04:34 AM
I will try to put up a workflow video asap if someone does not beat me to it ....

Please do!

This was a real oversight on E-on's side, and would dispell a lot of the criticism here.


but i am loving it so far and felt i should let you guys know that ...

That's what I want to hear (this is the first time) ! :thumbsup:

dballesg
11-06-2008, 04:44 AM
Thanks David for the tip on the config .. would have never found that on my own without turning one of my locks gray :P

You are welcome! :)

I needed to read the xStream part of the manual because I noticed has changed form xStream 6. It is a different way to have xStream content inside LW.

And for what I tested (not much free time now), it is more stable and faster than xStream 6.

I really like the concep of MetaNodes, basically a way to group nodes! :)

David

IMI
11-06-2008, 05:27 AM
Sounds good, cgswami, and I'm glad it worked out for you. :thumbsup:

Yes, bring on that video - I'd love to see it!

starbase1
11-06-2008, 06:10 AM
I suspect I am not alone in really wanting this product to work well - landscape software was one of my very first forays into 3d, (Vistapro for DOS!).

I want rollindg endless hills and craters smothered in vegetation with vast alien moons lighting up the landscaoe below!

There's cool stuff in current versions, there's more cool sounding stuff in the new one.

And yes, I also understand that heavy duty studio level software can carry a heavy duty price.

What I keep seeing in the messages in this thread though is many here don't consider the product and/or the company delivers studio quality, not in stability, not in support, not in ease of installation / licencing, not in things like reliably flicker free animation, not in reliably acceptable render times.

So to many it feels like we are being asked to pay pro studio prices for something where I personally have found support worse than most one man band outfits I have bought software from.

Nick

Andyjaggy
11-06-2008, 07:44 AM
I think we all want it to work. We are just a little skeptical from previous experience. I've been using infinite almost exclusively and it works wonderfully, still have to deal with massive render times, but look at what you are rendering, and the results are worth it.

Xstream never worked as promised, and if it does this time it would be worth the 1500.00, but I still have my doubts. Care to try rendering vue buffers from LW? That was always one of my biggest issues, they just didn't work. Do the buffers recognize the LW elements now?

tonybliss
11-06-2008, 08:20 AM
hey ...

have not tried out the mta nodes as yet .. but looks really intuitive :D
neither the buffers from lw .. but why would not just do it from vue and comp it old school??

finished the video ... Camtasia doing its compression thingy now
no audio tho' my mic/lineout port is swamped atm

expect in the next hour or so

GregMalick
11-06-2008, 08:29 AM
Aloha cgswami,

Looking forward to the video.
I've heard nothing but problems in Xstream6 & LW so I stayed away from it.
Hopefully you'll be using LW9.5 as a test.

Thanks for taking the time to try it out and share.

archijam
11-06-2008, 08:38 AM
expect in the next hour or so

:jam:

dballesg
11-06-2008, 09:07 AM
I think we all want it to work. We are just a little skeptical from previous experience. I've been using infinite almost exclusively and it works wonderfully, still have to deal with massive render times, but look at what you are rendering, and the results are worth it.

Xstream never worked as promised, and if it does this time it would be worth the 1500.00, but I still have my doubts. Care to try rendering vue buffers from LW? That was always one of my biggest issues, they just didn't work. Do the buffers recognize the LW elements now?

Hi Andy,

I remember previous posts from you about the buffers issue.

Basically I learned recently, that is LightWave the one that must give access to the Volumetric plugins to write on LW buffers, so xStream can write on those buffers. As the Image Filters or Pixel Filters do.

You can find more info on LightWave SDK. Volumetric Class:


SDK/html/classes/volume.html

addSample( ray, sample )
Add a new volume sample to the ray. This is how volumetric handlers submit their contributions to the integration of opacity and color along the ray. The sample structure is described below.

Volume Sample

A volume sample is a single ray segment with a uniform color and opacity. The distance and stride define the position and size of the sample, and the opacity and color are given as color vectors. By the way, you can create surface samples by setting stride to 0 and dist to 0.9999 * farClip.

typedef struct st_LWVolumeSample {
double dist;
double stride;
double opacity[3];
double color[3];
} LWVolumeSample;

dist
The starting point of the sample expressed as a distance from the origin of the ray. This should be greater than or equal to nearClip.

stride
The length of the sample. dist + stride should be less than or equal to farClip.

opacity
The red, green and blue components of the opacity of this sample.

color
The color at this sample.

So basically it is on Newtek's court to open a bit more the volumetric part, so they can contribute to any LW Buffer.

David

Andyjaggy
11-06-2008, 09:33 AM
Well it wasn't just issues with the vue and lw stuff mixing in the buffers, it was often times just getting the vue stuff to write out buffers at all. They would come out black and speckly a lot of times. Even rendering inside vue this was a pretty constant issue.

I also noticed on the vue 7 product page.

Known issues:

Multi-pass renders black. The very first release of Vue 7 renders multi-pass frames black. If you experience this problem, please contact tech support to get a fix.

dballesg
11-06-2008, 09:38 AM
Hi Andy,

In the moment I have a free moment I will try to do a small render and had a look on the LW+ xStream buffers, as well as on the standalone xStream.

I will post my results.

David

Sekhar
11-06-2008, 10:08 AM
Feedback showing up on the Vue forums doesn't look too good. A number of folks are reporting either crashes (saw with LW and C4D) or the stuff simply not working as expected. Some are happy, however (in one day of testing).

I was hoping for speedup (which is the single biggest issue I have with xStream 6.6). The only objective measure I saw was from a guy who has a 1280x584 image rendering in 4m 40s in 6.6, but which takes 9m 50s to render in 7! Wrong direction. He's apparently sent the scene to the e-on president, will see what he hears back.

Meanwhile, it'd be great if anyone else who has both 6.6 and 7 post benchmark results for a typical (ideally complex/production rather than test) scene.

GregMalick
11-06-2008, 10:40 AM
Got an email stating that the upgrade pricing will be good until 2/2/2009.
At least that will give some time to see if they sort out their issues.

It's still a great piece of software for doing matte paintings/backdrops.

dgrigo
11-06-2008, 01:21 PM
Dunno if it works fine for some, but imo you cant do any serious work with Xtream atm.
In Eon forums everyone having Issues.. from MAX to C4D and LW.
And most are feeling that they pay for the beta testing.
Also some have done renderings with 6.6 for some scenes and it seems like 2x slower, that depends on the settings you use.
For sure you can load a scene or start playing.. but crashes are unpredictable.. like editing a texture or a material, or picking properties..

tonybliss
11-06-2008, 01:54 PM
sorry for the delay .. uploading now :)

and really i am liking it so far .... you can also animate the vue objects as normal lw objects too ... this is where modeller features in layout would be really powerful ...

check back soon for upload :)

tonybliss
11-06-2008, 02:31 PM
http://themindgatestudio.net/

enjoy

link nerxt to under reconstruction notice

will annotate if nec when i get back

in and out in and out and no release 0_o

IMI
11-06-2008, 02:38 PM
Thanks! :)
Downloading now... I notice the file is vue7stream_1.
So, where's vue7xstream_2? ;)

IMI
11-06-2008, 03:05 PM
Looks really cool, cgswami. :thumbsup:

Thank you much for the demonstration. :)

It looks like it's actually Vue within LightWave, instead of a Vue scene able to be opened in LightWave, with minimum editing ability. It definitely looks like it's a helluva lot more advanced than Vue 6 xStream.

archijam
11-06-2008, 03:36 PM
Thanks cgswami, you should sell this to E-on! :thumbsup:

*or lease it, with a support plan and planned updates ... hence the '2' ;)*

archijam
11-06-2008, 03:52 PM
Your mouse has a lot of attitude ;)

One question - regarding ecosystems, I realise it is not possible to paint inside LW, but is it possible to open set-up systems you made in Vue?

Thanks again, both NT and E-on must have put some effort in to get this level of integration ..

Andyjaggy
11-06-2008, 04:01 PM
I would imagine you could. One more question, and this is a big one. Can you render the ecosystems, plants and terrains, without the Vue atmosphere, just with native LW lights and such. Or are you required like in version 6 to have a vue atmosphere present.

dballesg
11-06-2008, 04:28 PM
I would imagine you could. One more question, and this is a big one. Can you render the ecosystems, plants and terrains, without the Vue atmosphere, just with native LW lights and such. Or are you required like in version 6 to have a vue atmosphere present.

Hi andy,

This screenshot of the xStream panel options answer your question? ;)

David

GregMalick
11-06-2008, 04:32 PM
Great video.

But has anyone tried XStream with LW32?

tonybliss
11-06-2008, 05:17 PM
NP guys ...

It is very much vue really integrated in LW IMI ... almost fully, as i said you can animate the vue objects in lw using the transformation tools ....

Yes it is an option to open fully created vue scenes from vue into LW and use them as lw objects where applies ... and vis versa

The part two is where i show the integration with added objects and animated character(s) ... using Maestro ..Going to test tonight if possible and give demo tomorrow .. Greg and Eric thanks for the 9.5 fix .. so massively appreciated .. and thanks Eric for the rig help .. you guys support rock ...

I tried installing the 32 bit plugin for lw 9.5 and it could not find my drectory for some weird reason ....

but all in all so far very stable .... openGl rocks ... and enjoyable as it is right now .. feeling like a 3d artists again in LW


BTW I am now back in LW from XSI (no I have not left XSI because of AD) and i now installed 9.5 and very much liking it also .. stable so far in production evironment ...
are there things i should look out for ??
LW is and always be my baby :P
XSI is just my puta my ***** that can contort for me when i need to shag a contortionist

tonybliss
11-06-2008, 05:55 PM
ok i spread the link so people who are now tarting of with t can see soem of the possiblilities

dballesg
11-06-2008, 06:44 PM
Great video.

But has anyone tried XStream with LW32?

Hi Greg,

It is working here. Sorry for the long render time, but has MonteCarlo Interpolated with an Ambient Occlusion atmosphere oof xStream 7, and the ecosystems are Dynamic ones (a kind of LOD for ecosystems). I didn't optimized the render settings either.

The scene it's nothing very fancy, it took me about 10 minutes to do it.

David

tonybliss
11-07-2008, 03:44 AM
Hi David .... for some weird reason I still can't get the 32 bit plugin to install here ....
it says not recognising directory

would it be ok for you to email me the 32 bit vue7xstream.p file pwease

mindgate_studio AT yahoo.co.uk

IMI
11-07-2008, 09:25 AM
Again, cgswami, it looks pretty good.
I'll be watching it though to see if overall people aren't having problems with xstream. I mean, we all know that often programs work great on some people's setups but not at all on others even if it's the same thing, i.e., x64 Windows. I'm running Vista x64 and LW works fine, of course, but I need to see or read of some examples of people using xstream 7 succesfully with LW 64 AND Vista.

Andyjaggy
11-07-2008, 09:32 AM
I'm still being a bit of a pessimist here. I need to see something involved and complicated before I jump on the bandwagon.

I'm afraid it's still the typical Vue path of destruction.

1)hey this is cool
2)oh wow look at that neat
3)I'm loving this
4)Oh wait a minute
5)Oh crap what's up with that
6)Piece of junk.
7)Oh okay maybe I can get this to work
8)Nope piece of sh%^
9)I hate E-On!!!!!

Render me out a massive ecosystem 50,000+ instances with terrain, GI, and LW elements integrated. Without nasty flickering and in less than 2 hours a frame, then I'll believe. It looks cool at this point but like I said so did Vue 6 for a few days.

I'm very curious about render times as well. With the previous Xstream I always set the Vue render quality to preview and let the LW AA clean up the vegetation. It seemed to work fine and kept the render times somewhat reasonable. As soon as I set it to automatic the render more than tripled, without any noticeable increase in final quality.

starbase1
11-07-2008, 10:20 AM
:agree: :agree: :agree:

What he said.

prometheus
11-07-2008, 12:11 PM
well..nice..the intergration seems to be improved, ecosystem painting is missing thou unfortunatly, but the most wanted thing I would like to see isnīt there..namely the previewer, that is one of the things that makes it so easy to setup atmospheres, well the previewer for the atmosphere might be there, but not in conjuction with the rest.

Also How would fog ,light,and godrays react to Lightwave objects, donīt think that is possible..

Oh by the way..I want to share a tip to everyone creating clouds, so many images are displaying round blobs or sharp cut outs in the clouds due to function editors noises.
Try turn the density function of or reset it..it will first destroy the volume look of the clouds..but by tweaking the density filter instead you will get back the look of the clouds and the density distribution will not be controlled by the Awful function editor with terrible noise and procedurals not designed for clouds.

I think the clouds would look more natural this way..by controlling only the clouds tab..with scale,uniformity,roughness ..etc.
also increase the overall material cloud layers scale..wich by default in many cases are to low compared to world size.

Michael

tonybliss
11-07-2008, 03:48 PM
thanks will check that out . working with some serious clouds atm .. the tip helps

dgrigo
11-09-2008, 04:18 PM
Hi Guys,
Can you check this.. http://www.lwtoolbox.com/sumatra_tuts.htm
And select the sumatra tools paint video.
I wonder if Eon could Supply the paint for Xtream when i see that.
Maybe i am wrong , and that's why i want you to see that.
I am Referring to the Ecosystem painting that they omitted from LW.

And We have painting in the HD Instance if i recall right too.
You thoughts?

prometheus
11-09-2008, 04:27 PM
My thought, yeah sumatra is interesting, if it could be true instancing with L-system generated unique individual trees a la solid growth would be sweet..

and on top of that Newtek should start working on some sort of atmosphere system of their own..or contact the guy behind ogo taiki and develop it further..then I wouldnīt look so much into vue anymore, and everything would work inside of Lightwave, every object, every light,fog affects whole scene and can react to particle fx,dynamics etc. this is not possible with this two way x-stream approach.

Michael

dgrigo
11-09-2008, 10:23 PM
OH yes ! If newtek were getting OGO would rock, i would definitely would pay for a small update on this before we go to LW X cycle.

prometheus
11-09-2008, 11:08 PM
yeah..ogo was promising..but the more I look in to vue and also the new spectral atmosphere in vue 7 it will be a tough challenge to match the vue atmospheric system since it behaves/simulates all the air phenomenas in a pretty realistic way.

so..Im afraid Newtek will not bother or have the programmers able to handle this, and along with the more intergrated vue 7 comes less need for it perhaps..but I would surely see a new atmospheric system inside of lightwave...
ogo taiki had some stuff in it that vue cant achieve, like applying volumetrics on particle systems for smoke or rising billowing cumulus clouds, thatīs some of itīs advantages from a more landscape dedicated program like vue.

Im sure vue will get to particles and hardfx,softbodys someday to, Im impressed over how much features they put in to every version thou, even if it is pricey and has stability issues.

Check out the new features of clouds here..
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_xstream/?page=4

I would like to see some more of the new spectral engine..itīs supposed to have new algorithms for more detailed clouds and better illumination etc..
Im uncertain about the metaclouds thou..I would like to se shaping abilities on those like applying it on to imported geometry..but I guess itīs still only applyable on to spheres?

Michael

Andyjaggy
11-10-2008, 08:58 AM
Yeah the spectral atmospheres look pretty amazing. The render pretty dang slow but that's too be expected I guess.

wp_capozzi
11-10-2008, 01:08 PM
I'm interested in how well the clouds interact with everything else in a scene in Vue7. How easy are they to set up and get nice results with?

I pulled out one of the ogo_taiki demo scenes and messed around with it for a bit, and didn't feel too bad about the results after a half hour or so. For me the main problem with taiki is sorting out the interface and remembering what to do with it. Render times can go way up with taiki, as with anything else.

I'm trying to justify the price tag of Vue7, compared to what I already have. Would Vue7 truly bring a better workflow and rendering, over my exsisting combo of HD instance, Vue5, and ogo_taiki? Those luscious clouds and flicker free trees are pretty tempting (or maybe I already have that).

virtualcomposer
11-10-2008, 02:14 PM
I just hope Ozone 4 is a major upgrade and worth the $200. I love the sky and atmosphere effect as well. Pretty much unmatched.

virtualcomposer
11-10-2008, 02:29 PM
I don't like the way they've got their network rendering. I never could get Ozone2 to work right in a network. Just like with their upgrades hoop-jumping, they tend to screw the honest customer. IMO of course. :(

You're right. It is hard not to get their software though when they have the best products around as for atmospheres and scenery.

virtualcomposer
11-10-2008, 03:50 PM
:agree: Though they'd better get their act together. If they continue with their current quality of customer service and pricing schemes - i.e. no upgrade path from previoous versions - then they may end up in the ditch when something better comes along. If they can't have loyalty to their customers, there's no reason we customers should have loyalty for them. :)

:agree::agree:It would be really nice if another company came out that would create allot of competition. This would help their customer service out allot. It's funny, because of the way E-on treats us, I would jump to the newest company out there that is comparable to them. Newtek on the other hand, even if there was a better software program out there, I probably would stick with them because they answer tech support, patient, and you get an e-mail the same day, sometimes the same hour. It's even faster on the forum. Honestly, I can't see why I would switch and it all has to do with great service and quality.

prometheus
11-10-2008, 06:56 PM
something better might come along, I donīt believe it will be terragen thou..
I do believe that if it comes, it will be inside a full complete 3d package I wonder whos gonna be the first?

I have to say that one image in the new spectral atmosphere stands out, but the rest looks pretty much as vue 6 clouds, but I can see the difference in cloud detail in that image and I donīt think that is possible to acheive with the vue 6 versions and itīs most certainly related to the new Algorithms for more detailed clouds on the inside of the clouds or should I say in the overall volume, it gives a more perlin bulging,billowing that Terragen did pretty well too.
that is the cloud image from above..
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_xstream/?page=2

http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_xstream/?page=atmosphere#spectral_clouds

ogo taiki canīt stand a chance in terms of speed,quality setup, and air properties to match real phenomena...it could if it would be vamped up with speed and true air properties along with a completly new interface and of course it needs to be previewable like vue..when you change your lighting over clouds you can see that affecting the clouds,mountains,water and see how the shadows falls on the ground almost instantly with itīs previewer..

so it wouldnīt be enough only to get ogo in there..at least not for me.

Michael

prometheus
11-10-2008, 10:33 PM
by the way..I found this on youtube..some preview clips from battlestar galactica season 4..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oneEAQZGChU&feature=related

I Believe that is vue xstream at work for the atmosphere and clouds, that is mentioned at this site that host lightwave-vue scripts
Im refering to vueexport 2, over here

http://www.vuescripts.com/_A/index.php?aid=10

how exactly they approach the workflow for this would be interesting to hear.

Im pretty sure it is vue clouds...once you played with them you start to recognize certain features,probably a lot of metaclouds mixed with spectral layers.


cant follow the series anymore over here since the channel 5 here in sweden screwed up when,if and where to air the episodes.

Michael

dyls_E
11-11-2008, 09:53 PM
im really excited about it, ive ordered the upgrade and watching it daily at the dhl website as it makes its way here.

i used vue6 xstream a bit on projects, rarely for animation tho, but now that you can use all the tools inside lightwave, im really looking foward to it as just something to add realism to scenes. it says some features are still waiting for support from lightwave, wonder it it will be lightwave 9.6 or 10 even.

1 feature that looked really impressive, dont know if 6 does it, but water crashing on a shore of an island, and also i think you can use lightwave collision dynamics with vue objects....rain...

adrian
11-19-2008, 09:05 AM
So are Godrays still grainy and therefore largely unusable in Vue7 (infinite)? How fast do spectral clouds render?

I was going to ask about the flicker but that issue does seem to have been addressed a bit.

I'm glad it's not just me who thinks E-on has treated their customers with utter contempt with their obscene price hikes. They have been so short sighted because when the competition does catch up and offer a viable alternative, E-on will pay the price (pun intended).

prometheus
11-19-2008, 09:39 AM
Donīt know about vue 7 but vue 6..

well godrays is grainy unless you set the quality slider very high about 3-8
and that will surely increasy your render times.

Godrays from metaclouds needs the volumetric light checked, Not the godray option above it, and from metaclouds you need to set a high value of godrays in the metaclouds material over 100 and above.

Also godrays from metaclouds or volumetric light in general needs a render setting with object antialiasing and high quality settings from there to get smoother godrays or lights, not the spectral clouds godrays thou.

Michael

alvin_cgi
11-19-2008, 01:12 PM
Unfortunately there isn’t any real competition to e-on, at least for the moment now. :(


So are Godrays still grainy and therefore largely unusable in Vue7 (infinite)? How fast do spectral clouds render?

I was going to ask about the flicker but that issue does seem to have been addressed a bit.

I'm glad it's not just me who thinks E-on has treated their customers with utter contempt with their obscene price hikes. They have been so short sighted because when the competition does catch up and offer a viable alternative, E-on will pay the price (pun intended).

wp_capozzi
11-19-2008, 02:40 PM
I'm sure I should start a new thread for this.
After seeing the price of Vue 7 with no upgrade path from 5, well, I got out taiki to see what happens with it these days in LW9.5, mainly for clouds and atmospheres. It has it's own 'look', maybe it could fill the need without an expensive and/or troublesome Vue. Downfall for taiki is the lack of preview and a not easily understood interface. But, counting up all the problems with other software, taiki isn't bad.

Is there a list of benchmarks for Vue7 where I can compare some things? I guess I can only compare results and render times. I'm using Taiki and HDinstance in these images. For an early test on my aging 3ghz P4, it wasn't a drag on render time, final results still need a lot work though.

I don't want to knock Vue. If the price and functionality were right, I would buy it right away. I like Vue5i. With these taiki tests, I'm trying to see how far I can go with what I already have.

prometheus
11-19-2008, 08:41 PM
well I donīt think itīs a matter of lacking preview in ogo taiki for atmospherics since viper can handle that..previews along with object terrains and all other stuff like vues previewer is another thing thou, and that should be implemented somehow to viper or getting fprime in there improved to handle volumetrics.

Yeah I would like to see ogo taiki along with dynamite inside lightwave, but not as it is in itīs current state, I donīt believe thatīs gonna happen thou(surprise me Newtek).

None of these promising volumetric plugins have been updated for long long times, thatīs a shame since they could be the coolest things around in Lightwave if enhanced.

I would say theres three main topics that should be adressed in ogo taiki.

1. preview and render speed- needs a boost up to 15-20 times faster to be able to compete with vue.

2. user interface and setup is confusing, you have more controls than vue but itīs to much and you can get lost and do changes on wrong layers.
setting up air properties canīt match vues easier controls and the air properties doesnīt seem to have a natural physic realism to the sky like vue.

3. quality settings...horrible to get right, and not easy to set up so many of them.

that said ogo taiki has some other advantages such as better cloud procedurals for cloud density(vues function noises sucks and fractal functions are very slow and do not render godrays)

ogo taiki has better control on shading and lighting and colors of clouds, that said vue does a good job on the clouds anyway thanks to the more natural air properties affecting the clouds.

ogo taiki can be used on particle emitters to create rising cumulus or vapor,
I guess moving metaclouds in vue can do a similar job thou.

Ogo taiki can also produce heatwave distortions with anisotrophy, vue can not.

Thereīs however a lot more under the hood to vue and other things to keep in mind to be able to compete with vue.

The previewer ..Lightwave would need to get a full previewer for almost everything.

terrain tools and water planes and tree system available for easy fast acess.
well a terrain displacement shader would be nice and also a geometry sculpting tool(why isnīt the sculpting brush in there yet?)

and some sort of L-system with uniqe trees and branches upon creation and instancing.

And thereīs even more than that..but no need to count them up right now:)

Im really amazed thou that None of the big Full 3d applications have managed to create a competing landscape, and atmospheric system inside of the application, well I guess there are special tools developed for certain task and studios such as storm, or Houdinis L-system but probably not for the everyday guy, I wouldnīt say vue is hard to learn, You could put it in the hands of someone that hasnīt touched 3d before and they could pretty fast produce nice imagery.

Anyone remembering that ogo taiki was out there long before vue even had volumetric clouds and godrays.

Michael