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Otterman
10-21-2008, 06:52 AM
Whats the protocol for rotating an object that has a pivoting point that is on the pi**! (eg 45º angle on the z axis).

In layout i usually select "rotate pivot' using the 'local coordinates system' of that layer,set the rotation on the Z axis at 45º. Then when i go to actually keyframe a rotation -hey presto it pivots correctly!

Problem is-its not playing ball for some reason no matter how much i wrestle with it:help: I can see the numerical values change but on the pivot point itself-the angle isnt recording (rings)

Theres no ik trickey, targeting or heading controls coming into play here so im left scratching my head wondering what the problem is.

I hope i make sense and if anyone could shed any light?

Otterman
10-21-2008, 08:14 AM
Ive attached a scene and a screen dump to illustrate my problem. This should be so simple but its got me stumped!

ps-ignore the 45º angle as mentioned above

jin choung
10-22-2008, 12:27 AM
not sure i get exactly what's happening but have you tried:

"record pivot rotation"?

jin

Otterman
10-22-2008, 01:43 AM
Thanks Jin but record pivot rotation didnt cut it either.

Ive googled the problem and found a few people who have encountered this problem. The problem is that you can set pivots in modeler but you cant rotate them. In layout when I rotate the pivot - I can see the change I make - but when I jump back to normal rotate, the pivot jumps back to its original position. Most disconcerting.

Anyways, i got around it by adding a bone, then adjusting its rotation and resting it at that rotation...it works but its an additional process to an otherwise simple task! In other words-a work around!

Ive attached this scene to demonstrate it. Hum...surely there must be an easier way of doing it??

Castius
10-22-2008, 01:52 AM
LW pivots is not something i recommend editing. It's better to make a null and parent that mesh to it.

Surrealist.
10-22-2008, 02:22 AM
You can save your self much time and hassle with set up in layout and make things so much simpler all around to simply handle this in the modeling stage. This opens up the door to many more controls in layout as well. Simply rotate the model in modeler so it is flat. Then rotate the object into place in Layout. At this point things are easy because now you can set the coordinates to local and move it along that vector. Also any other targeting will use the positive z direction of the model in its rest position in modeler. When you do things this way in modeler first it aligns with what all the other tools expect.

Otterman
10-22-2008, 02:47 AM
You can save your self much time and hassle with set up in layout and make things so much simpler all around to simply handle this in the modeling stage. This opens up the door to many more controls in layout as well. Simply rotate the model in modeler so it is flat. Then rotate the object into place in Layout. At this point things are easy because now you can set the coordinates to local and move it along that vector. Also any other targeting will use the positive z direction of the model in its rest position in modeler. When you do things this way in modeler first it aligns with what all the other tools expect.

Yeah Mr Surrealist that would indeed save alot of hassle however its simply not an option in this case-its part of a complex parenting structure and the model needs to remain in situ.

And thanks Castius-i tried parenting to a null but was still experiencing the same issues. I dont know-we shouldnt have to resort to workarounds....whats the deal with rotating the pivot with local coordinates. It should be easy peasy!

Otterman
10-22-2008, 03:12 AM
Oh-ment to attach this screen grab to illustrate my point :)

Castius
10-22-2008, 03:43 AM
I agree it should be. But LW has a long history of not being pivot point friendly. But to be completely honest It's usually still best to not edit pivot points no matter what app your in. This way you don't have hidden data.

If you have a really complicated structure like you do. You can make it with skelegons. But don't convert skelegons to bones. Instead use "skelegons to nulls". It's found under the Utilities tab/Additional. This way you can use all your modeling tools to line up your skelegons. Also once you make your nulls. I would use the LS commander to record your steps of parenting all your nulls and mesh. This way you will create a macro of that step. In case you want to adjust your skelegons. LS Commander is found under the master plugins.

So this would be my steps.
Create skelegons
Convert to Nulls
Record a macro of parenting the nulls in a hierarchy
Record another macro parenting the mesh to the nulls

With that you should have a reasonable method to edit and reproduce your animation rig.

The added benifit to parenting the mesh to the nulls. Is that ability to edit each mesh on top of your main animation rig. In case you need to make small tweaks. This is not a benifit you would have with editing pivots. This is really the true secret to any great rig.

Otterman
10-22-2008, 04:29 AM
Castius-ive rigged a few of these b'stards before and they have proved a right nightmare to work with but very satisfying when it does work! Again thanks for the heads up on your recommentations-im taking notes on what you ve said. Ta very much :thumbsup:

Luckily for me this project is just a couple of stills so i can keyframe them to death now ive got the bones working on the correct pivot point.

Heres a couple of animation of the results (needs a couple of tweaks but its almost there)

Castius
10-22-2008, 10:01 AM
Very cool!