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guardonduty
10-17-2008, 12:30 PM
Vue 7 PRICING (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/press_materials/?page=..%2FPRIndex&date=October%2017,%202008) announced....expensive

archijam
10-17-2008, 12:31 PM
Ouch!

Better be worth it.

virtualcomposer
10-17-2008, 12:31 PM
Wow they've really upped the price on the extreme version. It used to be a thousand or so I thought. Wonder if Vue 7 is going to be a major step up from 6?

virtualcomposer
10-17-2008, 12:34 PM
Is there a major difference in the Pro Studio vs Complete vs Infinite? I love photo realistic landscapes but I wouldn't use everything since I mainly use LW. I think the only advantage to xStream is the integration of LW objects.

Andyjaggy
10-17-2008, 12:43 PM
Ouch, yeah better be worth it, I think it will take a lot to get most people to give E-on more of their money.

virtualcomposer
10-17-2008, 12:52 PM
I don't know. Everytime I see a Vue 6 picture, it looks sort of fake to me.

virtualcomposer
10-17-2008, 12:54 PM
I think it would be cool if LW could import Vue files that way we don't have to choose between $600 and $1500.

dballesg
10-17-2008, 01:09 PM
I think it would be cool if LW could import Vue files that way we don't have to choose between $600 and $1500.

You can export plants from Vue to LWO format. Including textures.

The good thing it is the Ecosystems that Vue can create with their plants (really it works like internal instancing), that it is how it renders millions of polygons. Ecosystems can not be exported to LW on any way.

Looking forward the day we will have instancing on LW renderer! :) :) :)

David

Red_Oddity
10-17-2008, 01:31 PM
that's quite a jump in price, from 900 dollars to 1500 dollars for xStream?
Your almost better of doing everything in XSI and using Mental Rays geo instancing shaders.

And what's up with those stupid versions anyway, i hate it when Autodesk does it, i hate it when E-on does it, always nice to buy a program and then noticing later on that a basic function is missing because the marketing team deemed it a 'pro feature'.

art
10-17-2008, 01:39 PM
I wonder what the updgrade pricing will be.

guardonduty
10-17-2008, 03:46 PM
They are probably waiting on all the responses(feedback) gathered from these boards. Really!

virtualcomposer
10-17-2008, 05:16 PM
Well, I for one wouldn't spend $1500 just to import LW files. I'm sure I could get away with the $400 version and never use it's pro features. All I like about Vue is the beutiful water, plants, clouds, and mountains. I'm sure I don't have to get the $1000 version to get that. Uggg, this sounds like greed is starting to take over E-on. I'm just glad Newtek cares enough about it's customers to earn a healthy profit but not take my first born doing it. LOL

archijam
10-17-2008, 05:47 PM
in the email version it saya there will be an intro price for xstream 7 .. Which is the only version I am interested in, presuming the lw integration is as good as the max.

Not holding my breath-

JohnMarchant
10-18-2008, 04:05 PM
Well i for one will be waiting until all the hype has settled down and see if it integrates better than Vue 6 did, which for was not very stable

starbase1
10-20-2008, 06:35 AM
:eek:
Thats just stupid pricing.

And their upgrade process is so painful, (go right back to the first version you bought and work all the way up for a new box), that I won't go through that again, (though I guess they may fix it).

The upgrade pricing historically looks to be slightly under half the full new price, but even so...

Andyjaggy
10-20-2008, 09:50 AM
E-on has the most convoluted jacked up licensing, purchasing, upgrading system in existence today. And that's a pretty big feat considering the competition.

virtualcomposer
10-20-2008, 10:12 AM
Is there another company that makes scenery like Vue but is better and easier to use?

art
10-20-2008, 10:29 AM
WorldBuilder (http://www.digi-element.com/wb/wbgallery01.htm) is one alternative. It used to be one of the better ones. I never used it and I do not know how easy/difficult it is. I think its interface is closer to 3d studio max from what I remember from some descriptions/screenshots long time ago.
I see that the company has some new products as well that I am not familiar with.

virtualcomposer
10-20-2008, 10:38 AM
What gets me is why a company would, in an international financial and economic crisis, raise their prices over a third in one upgrade???? Most smart companies like clothing stores, software retailers are giving incentives for people to be entice and buy with lower prices. I mean really, it's software, they would gain much more if they sold it for a bit less and had the common person afford to buy it. Better to sell one million at $895 then sell five thousand at $1500. I'm no business expert but I think it's unanimous with us 3D animators that none of us will be upgrading so E-on loses out. I could I convince my wife to pay $1000 or more for an upgrade from Vue 5 and then tell her all it does is crash???? E-on can affect marriages!! LOL

guardonduty
10-22-2008, 11:35 AM
Has anyone heard on ONYX software (http://www.onyxtree.com/gallery.html). They do some beautiful vegetaion. WOW...Check out this DEMO VIDEO (http://www.onyxtree.com/gall-rivero81.html).......wowa

Red_Oddity
10-22-2008, 12:53 PM
Sure have, but try to render a forrest of ten thousand + trees and plants in your program with those exported trees, not really working.
The beauty of Vue is that it does rendering and instancing with the flora generated in incredible quality.

Still steep price increase though.

trick
10-22-2008, 01:06 PM
Sure have, but try to render a forrest of ten thousand + trees and plants in your program with those exported trees, not really working.
The beauty of Vue is that it does rendering and instancing with the flora generated in incredible quality.

Still steep price increase though.

It works with Max/VRay/GroundWiz (max.90000 instances)/VRayScatter (max.20 million on 16GB System) at a much higher speed AND quality. And you can use a LOT of different base objects. On a 16GB system you can easily have a 20million+ instance render with HD_Instance !! I love GroundWiz the most: you can really paint the instances in your perspective: rendertimes for PAL are under 5 minutes per frame on 8-core systems, so really useable...

Red_Oddity
10-22-2008, 02:40 PM
Like that you could probably do it indeed, and with HD Instance it can be a relative cheap solution indeed.
Using Max and VRay to replace Vue would become a bit of steeper price increase though.

trick
10-22-2008, 04:56 PM
...Using Max and VRay to replace Vue would become a bit of steeper price increase though.

It surely is. Even Max/VRay crashes regularly, but they are controllable and predictable as are most Lightwave (and most other programs I have used since the beginning of time) crashes. E-on software is a completely different story which makes completing deadlines a nightmare. I also used Ozone 1, 2 and 3 in both LW and MAX and even this simple program could not be used for finishing render sequences without crashing the whole farm. At that moment you are just glad that there are solutions that cost as much as Max/Vray does ;)

kopperdrake
10-22-2008, 07:26 PM
I have to admit that with Xstream 6, everytime I start a project that I think I can use it, the render times cripple me so much I turn to LW and HD Instance instead, and the render options panel is painful with all the options (well - to me anyway). I mainly use it for sky generation these days! At that price I think I'll stick with this version.

POTO2220
10-23-2008, 09:06 AM
come on guys....I know $1500 is a jump from $845 but lets get real...a 5 second logo animation pays for this and then some. I just did a corporate logo animation for a training video and I made $3300 for about a weeks worth of work.....I think we need to put into perspective, what the software affords us and for very little money in the grand scheme. How about securing a animation job that requires vast forests, water, clouds or whatever and build in the price of the software. I think it sucks I may have to shell out another $500 for this, but if it works and integrates like they say, thats small potatoes compared to the thousands you make from a 10, 20, 30 second animation...Im also in the middle of a 45-90 second medical animation....tens of thousands of dollars can buy lots of Vue software. LOL

dgrigo
10-23-2008, 02:20 PM
:beta::beta::beta::beta::beta:
And Someday... VUE 8 Pricing announced and you will need more Medical Animation money to get the VUE at 3.000.
Seriously,
anyone thinks, or have any experience with VUE Xtreme that really works? Mine works only if i don't use lightwave plugin and just make something in their own program..
I feel like i paid for extreme and they gave me Infinity.. maybe i am wrong.. or they were hiding that it don't work .. as i could not join forums without been a registered user first.
What Company can do that? if they don't have anything to hide?

:beta:
And i am happy with lightwave beta.. at least that works lol

starbase1
10-23-2008, 02:40 PM
come on guys....I know $1500 is a jump from $845 but lets get real...a 5 second logo animation pays for this and then some. I just did a corporate logo animation for a training video and I made $3300 for about a weeks worth of work.....I think we need to put into perspective, what the software affords us and for very little money in the grand scheme. How about securing a animation job that requires vast forests, water, clouds or whatever and build in the price of the software. I think it sucks I may have to shell out another $500 for this, but if it works and integrates like they say, thats small potatoes compared to the thousands you make from a 10, 20, 30 second animation...Im also in the middle of a 45-90 second medical animation....tens of thousands of dollars can buy lots of Vue software. LOL

Well, it may be possible for a professional to justify the price, as you say.

But speaking as a heavy duty amateur, in my experience it is not reliable enough to justify that serious pro price tag, and I'm going to take a lot of convincing it will be twice as good as the old version. (or whichever of the umpteen old / new versions you want to pick).

And as someone who is not constrained in budget, it is competing with plenty of other graphics tools and plug-ins and add ons for my heard earned cash.

And if terragen 2 finally makes it out the door before year end, as planned , they could hardly have picked a worse time to try and push up the prices.

Nick

virtualcomposer
10-23-2008, 03:18 PM
I'd like to know if there are any good Lscripts or plugins that can make and eco system in LW instead of in Vue?

Andrew March
10-24-2008, 03:58 AM
HD instance ;)

starbase1
10-24-2008, 04:08 AM
HD instance ;)

Unfortunately that won't solve the polygon limits for the landscape itself, which I find very easy to hit in LW...

archijam
10-24-2008, 04:12 AM
Used cleverly, hd instance can do a lot, but often the use is less intuitive.

For example - by using weight maps and percentages of plant mix, you can get a pretty nice 'ecosystem' effect in not much time. Weightmaps generated by altitude and angle to the horizon can then quickly lead to similar effects.

It just needs a pooling of knowledge on the subject - after all, HD I has never targetted vegetation specifically. I think it's time it should.

Frankly I don't need the 'every plant is different' effect, colour, scale and rotation is plenty for me ...

archijam
10-24-2008, 04:14 AM
Unfortunately that won't solve the polygon limits for the landscape itself, which I find very easy to hit in LW...

Agreed, and this needs to be addressed within LW.

However the fact that HD I 2 no longer relies on points and polys is a big save in this regard ... it's enough reason for me to upgrade from 1.82.

virtualcomposer
10-24-2008, 10:12 AM
I honestly don't have much of a problem with the price. I understand it's a great program. The problem that makes the price seem high are the bugs, crashes, lack of tech support and the fact I need at least 8 cores and 16GB RAM to get a decent quality WITHOUT cutting corners. That's what makes the price seem a bit much. Vue is a great software and I've seen the most beautiful landscapes ever made from an animation program. If the bugs were fixed and render times were realistic, then it would be worth it and I would be saving money as I speak.

starbase1
10-24-2008, 10:32 AM
I honestly don't have much of a problem with the price. I understand it's a great program. The problem that makes the price seem high are the bugs, crashes, lack of tech support and the fact I need at least 8 cores and 16GB RAM to get a decent quality WITHOUT cutting corners. That's what makes the price seem a bit much. Vue is a great software and I've seen the most beautiful landscapes ever made from an animation program. If the bugs were fixed and render times were realistic, then it would be worth it and I would be saving money as I speak.

And the moment you do something seriously CPU intensive like rich skies, it seems to go single threaded and only use one core...

virtualcomposer
10-24-2008, 10:37 AM
And the moment you do something seriously CPU intensive like rich skies, it seems to go single threaded and only use one core...

ain't that the truth! It's a great program but the headaches caused is not worth the price. If they could make it as I described before, that and LW would be the best tools I think to get virtually anything done.

Andyjaggy
10-24-2008, 10:57 AM
And the moment you do something seriously CPU intensive like rich skies, it seems to go single threaded and only use one core...

Never had that problem, you are aware that if you render out a panorama, such as for a sky to bring into LW that it only uses one processor.

kfinla
10-26-2008, 02:12 PM
I want to like Vue and I've played with demo's.. but as you guys have attested to.. I've been waiting for a solid version, with render times that aren't astronomical. They need to prove that it is stable as a standalone and as LW plugin.. also in OSX.. and that render speed has increased.. I still hear issues about flickering animation despite what e-on claims.. and it seems like any sort of animation needs to be farmed out for rendering.

paul summers
10-26-2008, 02:39 PM
no Vue 7 upgrade for me very bad product

virtualcomposer
10-28-2008, 02:58 AM
I just downloaded the Vue 6 Infinite trial and it seems to be really awesome. So much faster the 5 running in rosetta. And it has an option to make it look somewhat like LW or other 3D apps you're used to. For the most part, I can use the trial without any issues except the annoying watermark. I'm very impressed and cannot wait to see what 7 has to offer. I e-mailed them to see what the upgrade price would be from Vue 5 Infinite educational version to Vue 7 Infinite pro version. Hopefully it's affordable but until then, the trial seems pretty cool and the render speed is like night and day compared to Vue 5.

starbase1
10-28-2008, 05:57 AM
I just downloaded the Vue 6 Infinite trial and it seems to be really awesome. So much faster the 5 running in rosetta. And it has an option to make it look somewhat like LW or other 3D apps you're used to. For the most part, I can use the trial without any issues except the annoying watermark. I'm very impressed and cannot wait to see what 7 has to offer. I e-mailed them to see what the upgrade price would be from Vue 5 Infinite educational version to Vue 7 Infinite pro version. Hopefully it's affordable but until then, the trial seems pretty cool and the render speed is like night and day compared to Vue 5.

Really? I'm surprised to hear that - I'm on v6i, and was on v5i for a long time. I did not notice any major shift in render times.

What kind of stuff were you rendering?

virtualcomposer
10-28-2008, 09:37 AM
Really? I'm surprised to hear that - I'm on v6i, and was on v5i for a long time. I did not notice any major shift in render times.

What kind of stuff were you rendering?

I think the biggest reason for the render time change is because I have a Mac Intel and 5 was running in rossetta. 6 is native to the Intel chipset so that I think that's why. I also like the fact that I can make it look similar to LW so it makes it easier to understand for me. I hated the Vue 5 look. No matter how much I used it, I could never get used to the interface and found myself looking around for stuff.

wildr3d
10-28-2008, 05:21 PM
Not touching it till I see some animation rendered out of it. I see boiling
AA I'll be disappointed.

Sekhar
10-28-2008, 05:35 PM
I think the biggest reason for the render time change is because I have a Mac Intel and 5 was running in rossetta. 6 is native to the Intel chipset so that I think that's why.

That must be it. I didn't notice much difference either from 5 xStream to 6 (Windows).

starbase1
10-29-2008, 01:24 PM
Well, I've not tried this one yet, but other geek at play stuff is very good:

http://www.geekatplay.com/vfx.php

Tutorials on imntegrating Vue into the pro video pipeline.
Nick

Phil
10-31-2008, 05:50 PM
Not touching it till I see some animation rendered out of it. I see boiling
AA I'll be disappointed.

I'll up that to - no boiling AA + render times less than an ice age. Vue 6 was a severe disappointment in both cases and honestly felt no faster than Vue 5 under Rosetta.

Blaine91555
11-05-2008, 01:07 AM
I have 5 and 6I and planned on getting XStream this go around until I saw the price. Due to past support issues and the beta nature of their software in general, I'm not buying until a few months of posts are spread around. They are also going to add features and charge all over again for 7.5 in a few months. Do you suppose they are going belly up and this is panic pricing?

Anyone who buys now, please keep us informed. Not all of us have Studio budgets or wants. Some of us just want to create art. I feel for future students if the prices are trending up. The big studios will have in effect a trust of sorts.

Many thanks to NewTek for thinking progressively the other way.

starbase1
11-05-2008, 01:47 AM
Well, it looks like Vue 7 is finally out, and full details are available:
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/?page=0&PrinterFriendly=1

It does look like there are more improvements than I was expecting, and some seem aimed at the kind of things people have complained about here.

However given their track record, I'm certainly holding back to see if they have really delivered.

lwaddict
11-05-2008, 08:59 AM
I wouldn't go around counting those chickens just yet...
especially due to the word of E-On.

The word is just getting out from those that got it and it isn't stellar.

I'm hearing that it's almost undistiguishable from the last rev and that you'd have to be a real pro to notice anything truly different.

Still waiting on the flickering solution that they claimed would be in 6...

I'm just saying, before you 'donate' your money to these guys...
wait for some reputable sources to tell us that it's truly improved.

Andyjaggy
11-05-2008, 09:31 AM
I love the new OGL, you can finally see your terrain detail in the viewports.

lwaddict
11-05-2008, 10:43 AM
"if that works" it'd be a milestone.
Always wanted to traverse the ecosystems but you just couldn't without going through stuff.

So...Andy...you got it and are running it?
Or are we all still looking at the pictures on their site?

kfinla
11-05-2008, 10:59 AM
Cool.. so Andy r u running Xstreme or Infinite? and with What version or build of Lightwave? And ofcoursewhats your impression.. stability? speed etc..

Andyjaggy
11-05-2008, 11:04 AM
Oh sorry, I don't have it yet. Just speaking from what I saw on their site. I'm impressed with the update from what I can see, but again it all depends if it is actually going to work.

Currently banging my head against the wall trying to render a scene in Vue 6 with this nasty flickering splotchiness I just can't seem to get rid of, no matter how high the settings.