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Roadwarrior
10-12-2008, 08:03 AM
Ghosts BlowAway in the wind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRc9rNDZOCE

Similiar style of effect is used throughout Ghostrider movie (nick cage)
How do you go about creating this visual effect.
Particles,hypervoxels or using plugins?

SplineGod
10-12-2008, 10:03 AM
probably a bit of everything

virtualcomposer
10-12-2008, 02:07 PM
Hey I like that band. I like the metal/goth sound. Kamelot to is a favorite of mine.

tischbein3
10-18-2008, 07:01 AM
How do you go about creating this visual effect.

As for lw you might additionally investigate the possebillety
to additionally using poly stripes + cloth fx.

...

Might be even worth to try if FiberFX can get you partly through the process.

Amhras
10-22-2008, 04:39 PM
I like the video. Interesting that a Nordic, quasi-metal band would do such a distinctly Irish flavored song. Very cool.

chromatic
10-31-2008, 09:25 AM
probably a bit of everything

rofl Larry, sounds like you wanted an easy way out of this one :P

Not that I have the definate "how-to do this effect" but I'm sure this particular effect is possible with LightWave without touching any other 3rd party plugins. I'm a bit of a "solely LightWave" enthusiast so I barely use 3rd party plugins.
I'm sure fluid dynamics are used in the effect. Dynamite (Pro) from Cantarcan would be a reasonably priced solution to get what you want.

I'm not a pro so I don't work with tight time schedules for which 3rd party plugins are definate timesavers here and there.

I'll be looking into this effect the coming days and share my thoughts. I'll try to not use any 3rd party plugins. :)

Caveboy
11-02-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm sorta investigating this one myself. I just finished a scene for the Spinquad Halloween contest and entered a rushed finished piece. I was close to finishing it and decided to add some animated FX to it and make it a moving picture.

I will post the work in the WIP section.

But I want to add some black smoky ghosts. Flying around the house. My first test was to fly a 2d billboard of the ghost that was subdivided to allow the mesh to bend. It moves through the scene, displaced with procedural noise with world coordinates. It sorta worked. But I want more wispy effects.

chromatic
11-02-2008, 03:53 PM
Brainstorming here:

An apparant solution would be to use a combination of an animated texture with transparancy, clothFX and maybe some hypervoxels. Fluid Dynamics will be best to use but we gotta roll with what we have :)

Sande
11-03-2008, 12:27 PM
Ghosts BlowAway in the wind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRc9rNDZOCE

Similiar style of effect is used throughout Ghostrider movie (nick cage)
How do you go about creating this visual effect.
Particles,hypervoxels or using plugins?
If the guys from Lapland Studios attend the next IGDA-meeting here at Helsinki, I can probably ask what they used in Max to achieve that look...

Cloth with particles could work well in LW.

Roadwarrior
12-08-2008, 03:03 PM
Looks like this is a tuff one
as it involves more than one way to get the final comp.;)

Red_Oddity
12-09-2008, 05:17 AM
Probably Thinking particles with pyrocluster, or maybe FumeFX, it does have that typical turbulence noise look that Max and Maya have.

Lightwolf
12-09-2008, 05:44 AM
I'd say real footage and a bit of compositing: Particles, Timedelays/smears/Trails, a bit of displacement...

Cheers,
Mike

Lottmedia
12-17-2008, 02:38 PM
well, I skimmed through the video and didn't see the effect you're talking about, but I think I can imagine I was unfortunate enough to see Ghost Rider and I think I would also add to the list of similar VFX Return of the King.

This is just speculation, haven't tried this yet, but I was thinking of a method using something like the Blade vampire burn-up effect someone had a nice tut on combined with some clothFX (though thinking about it morphs might work better) The texture>transparency shift in that might achieve a good look, I'll have to put something together tonight

Lottmedia

\BTW- what's with VFX boys and weird heavy metal bands?

Roadwarrior
12-19-2008, 12:11 AM
Look forward to seeing what you put together :)

Lottmedia
12-20-2008, 02:08 PM
sorry for the delay, I'm close but have a christmas party tonight, so I'm trying to tweak it right now. Hopefully in a little bit I'll post......

K

Lottmedia
12-20-2008, 02:24 PM
OK, I've got a working effect but I didn't notice I was in discovery all this time, so I'll recreate it. Works pretty good, needs some tweaking but I think it's what you're talking about.

K

Mr Rid
12-20-2008, 04:17 PM
'line' object emitter, turbulent winds, sprites with post processing-
http://www.box.net/shared/static/4ld0kttmto.mov
wire-
http://www.box.net/shared/static/6vj10kdipp.mov
different post processing-
http://www.box.net/shared/static/9cdp268h1d.mov

with LW HVs, its all about post processing to minimize the inherent puffball look.

nikfaulkner
12-22-2008, 04:23 AM
lottmedia, really looking forward to what you come up with. sounds like an interesting idea

mr rid , all i can say is WOW.


definatly some interesting thoughts in this thread :)


n.

Lottmedia
12-22-2008, 06:04 PM
OK, so I got a little something together, but I'm not really happy with it yet. It's rough, but I got the particles to be generated by the dissolve. What I really wanted was to have the wind affect connected to the particle life, so that they would hold there a moment before being blown by the wind (which isn't a good wind effect, I know) It would be really good with an object modeled truly 3D (with all internal structure)

http://www.vfxcast.com/media/4482/partile_dissolve_test/

ps, also I had some problems with using the clip map so I has to use transparency which really did something weird with the double sided surface

K

Lottmedia
12-22-2008, 07:01 PM
So how come I can't seem to get a texture displacement layer to work correctly in a clipmap layer? If I do the gradient by itself it works right, and if I do the procedural itself it works fine, but if I use the procedural to displace the gradient it doesn't work.

K

nikfaulkner
12-22-2008, 11:17 PM
lottmedia, thats definatly a step in the right direction.

any pointesrs as what you did (or a scene file)?

mr rid, what post processing are you using? i often use reelsmart motion blur in after effects

ta.

Mr Rid
12-23-2008, 12:57 AM
l

mr rid, what post processing are you using? i often use reelsmart motion blur in after effects

ta.

Glass, RS moblur, glow, and a lot of color correction- treating the high,mid and low levels separately). I also use image masks based on luminance or alpha in the tools to do weird things.

May also try rendering the sprites with a ridiculous moblur amount like 1000.
http://www.box.net/shared/static/na4bu6isot.mov

May also try giving the particles a size and calculate with viscosity and 'crowd' in the self-interaction to get them to clump together more like a tendril.

Lottmedia
12-23-2008, 03:07 PM
Thanks, it's close to a roughing out, no where near final yet. I woyle really like to have the particles retain the shape of the object for a second, then be affected by the wind for a more "blown away" effect. I'm putting together the scene file for you to play with. The organic wind motion of the particles is something I have trouble with (Mr. Rid, yours are great, BTW) so if someone wants to give that a tweak, please do.

Scene file to come shortly

K

Lottmedia
12-23-2008, 05:49 PM
Give this a try, it needs a lot of tweaking but it gives you the idea, I think

K

Mr Rid
12-24-2008, 01:21 AM
...I would really like to have the particles retain the shape of the object for a second, then be affected by the wind for a more "blown away" effect. ...

K

You should be able to this easily with a 'particle age' or 'relative age' gradient in the resistance channel so that the effect of winds would increase over time, but once again NT leaves tools mysteriously incomplete. Standard 'age, speed, weight, time' gradient parameters available in surfaces and voxels are dissapointlingly missing from the particle channels.

Lottmedia
12-25-2008, 11:24 AM
I'll give that a try, Mr Rid. I didn't think of having the wind affect based on particle age (seems backwards, dosen't it?) I only thought to adjust that on the actual particles :)

K

Lottmedia
12-25-2008, 03:27 PM
There doesn't seem to be a way to use particle age for the wind, so maby that's out, I guess :( Poo. Thought we had it

K

Lottmedia
12-25-2008, 03:49 PM
incorporated the clipmap into it because the transparency has weird issues and it doesn't entirely disappear. Would have likes to use the Clipmap fo everything but it doesn't seem to take texture displacement layers correctly there. Is that right, anyone know why that doesn't work?

K

Sorry, didn't plug in my dongle untill I realized I had something good going :)

Mr Rid
12-26-2008, 10:18 AM
There doesn't seem to be a way to use particle age for the wind, so maby that's out, I guess :( Poo. Thought we had it

K

I was referring to the age gradient that does not, but should, exist in the resistance channel of particles.

Have been working on a similar type of smoky sprite element that could be made to look many different ways in post processing.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/aghc61p5uh.mov

Mr Rid
12-26-2008, 06:07 PM
I usually use a parent and child emitter to get better looking smoke. The parent emitter shoots out much fewer particles that are the 'heads' of the tendrils, which leave trails of denser particles from the child emitter. For complex dust behavior, I may use a third child emitter that leaves a spread of large sprites for the the finer haze left by diminishing dust.

But for anyone playing with this type of thing first focus on getting swirly particle behaviour and ignore HVs for the moment. The most important thing is to focus on one aspect of the behaviour at a time. Get one thing working before turning on other tools. Get a couple of vortex and or donut winds counter rotating (falloffs off) around, maybe add a turbulence to break it up a little. Play with one wind at a time, try out each different value (try extreme or negative, and textures where applicable) and to get the particles doing something you like. The thing is to get precise control over what is happening.

Then shading is a completely different task. Focus on one aspect of HVs at a time. Use viper to speed it up (also look at particle preview). Even when I get sweet settings for one shot, they almost never work right on another. You really have to just try each setting and see what you get. I use density, age and speed gradients a lot to make particles appear to shrink, grow, stretch, and change over time. But then post processing is you biggest friend. You only make life difficult trying to do everything in 3D that might be much more easily tweaked and manipulated very fast in 2D.

Experiment with weird things. I always feel that much of what I arrive at is accidental. Regularly there are happy accidents where I lost track of something and left a setting in the wrong place only to look up at something cool happening that I didnt intend. It may not be right for the current task, but I stow the scenes away for future possibilities.

When I find myself frustrated over something just not working (particularly when its late and am tired), its best to leave it alone, take a break or sleep on it and come back to it fresh later. Better ideas come when when not tired or stressed. Many of my best ideas come to me when I am just half asleep, usually when I ponder a problem in that hazy half conscious state just after waking up.

Mr Rid
12-30-2008, 02:54 AM
...I woyle really like to have the particles retain the shape of the object for a second, then be affected by the wind for a more "blown away" effect. ...

K
Might experiment with having a simplified figure emitter and a separate proxy version of the figure with collision set to Stick. Stick does not work the way it might sound. It does not make particles stick in place but rather they slide around the collision object like water dribbling down the side of a glass as its tilted. Stick particles will stay with the figure, then a child emitter may emit 'fly away' particles in a 2nd group that does not stick. Or may have a separate figure emitter altogether for the particles that fly away from the figure. The two may blend together for the appearance of smoke that hovers around the figure then blows away.

Roadwarrior
02-24-2009, 04:21 AM
Thats a Cool Demo Reel Mr Rid....looks like your cooking with gas :hey:

Mr Rid
02-24-2009, 11:39 PM
Thats a Cool Demo Reel Mr Rid....looks like your cooking with gas :hey:

And thats a cool avatar... am a longtime Rockatansky fan.

My homemade RW outfit from Halloween '86.
70239
70240

The black Interceptor is my ultimate car.:thumbsup: The closest I could get at age 17 with my first car was a black, Z28 that I spray painted flat black and tore major a-s-s around in for 12 years. It was pretty authentically beat up and scary looking by the end.

djlithium
02-27-2009, 08:44 PM
well, I skimmed through the video and didn't see the effect you're talking about, but I think I can imagine I was unfortunate enough to see Ghost Rider and I think I would also add to the list of similar VFX Return of the King.

This is just speculation, haven't tried this yet, but I was thinking of a method using something like the Blade vampire burn-up effect someone had a nice tut on combined with some clothFX (though thinking about it morphs might work better) The texture>transparency shift in that might achieve a good look, I'll have to put something together tonight

Lottmedia

\BTW- what's with VFX boys and weird heavy metal bands?

I'm a trance fan myself :)