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View Full Version : Is FBX support completely broken in 9.5?



damianallen
10-01-2008, 02:20 PM
I've tried every way possible to send a LightWave scene to MotionBuilder via fbx. No matter what format of FBX I choose, it just hangs when I try to bring it into MotionBuilder. If I export using the old LW8 FBX plugin, it imports with no problems.

Am I missing something, or has no one else actually tried to use this functionality?

Deep Purple
10-01-2008, 03:17 PM
Hi damianallen!

Into which version of MotionBuilder are you trying to import?

- DavidF

damianallen
10-01-2008, 04:14 PM
The latest -7.5 Ext 1 - (not 2009 - since it's not released yet, it will be in a week).

artstorm
10-01-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm using MB7.5 (ext2 - 64bit) as well. And just like you, it doesn't work with the new FBX i/o in LW. My Motionbuilder doesn't hang though, it imports the LW exports but with all bone rotations completely messed up.

So I revert back to 32bit LW and the old fbx plugins when I need to interact with MB (almost daily).

damianallen
10-01-2008, 04:35 PM
Thanks Artstorm, nice to know it's not just me. The new integrated import/export looks great on the feature sheet, shame it doesn't work

The merge scene option would be a dramatic improvement on the old method, especially when dealing with multiple characters.

damianallen
10-01-2008, 04:36 PM
Oh, and my mistake, I'm running extension 2b

duellestyle
10-05-2008, 02:51 PM
hi damianallen
I use often MB and LW, I jaus made an animation.
Well me too I found the same problem, when I imported into MB the mesh looks like picasso, all mess up! so I decided to use the old FBX plugin.

Becouse u can't install the old one into 9.5 cuz they have the same name, and cuz i don't want to have a old version of LW just to use the old plugin, I do a little trick. (sorry if I use long sentences, but I'm italian;) )

I opened the old fbx plugin and with a HEX editor and changed all the occurance of the word "export" with "esport". So when I added the old plugin into 9.5 I have both plugin new and old one but it says "esport to fbx". :thumbsup:

I use the skleton by dave, it work good, just remeber to parent the upper leg to the hips.
so the step to follow to have a good results are:

1. setup the basic scene in lw with bones, weights etc..(it's better to remain the xyz to 0)

2. export to fbx using the old plugin, using cage mesh when it ask (it's not neccesary to export shapes texture ecc.. just model and camera)

3. open the fbx scene in MB and characterize it. Animate and PLOT when finish.

4. open lw and import the plotted scene.

5. select the mesh and open the classic scene editor. Select > Select all the ones of the current object

6. open Motion mixer and create an actor. Create a motion and after under the motion menu and select "save motion"

7. open the basic scene (the same that u used for export in mb (so it contains the mesh textured, with the weight maps that U created and not the one the MB created!) and repeat the same step for creating the actor but instead to use "save motion" use "load motion" and put the motion in the motionmixer timeline.

8. done! congratulation u have your mesh animated perfectly in LW! ;)

as soon I have the permission I'll post some animation using MB and LW

have fun!:thumbsup:

duellestyle
10-05-2008, 03:03 PM
hi damianallen
I use often MB and LW and just made an animation.
Well me too I found the same problem, when I imported into MB. The mesh looks like picasso, all mess up! so I decided to use the old FBX plugin.

Becouse u can't install the old one into 9.5 cuz they have the same name, and cuz i don't want to have a old version of LW just to use the old plugin, I do a little trick. (sorry if I use long sentences, but I'm italian;) )

I opened the old fbx plugin and with a HEX editor and changed all the occurance of the word "export" with "esport". So when I added the old plugin into 9.5 I have both plugin new and old one but it says "esport to fbx". :thumbsup:

I use the skleton by dave, it work good, just remeber to parent the upper leg to the hips.
so the steps to follow to have a good results are:

1. setup the basic scene in lw with bones, weights textures etc..(it's better to remain the xyz to 0)

2. export to fbx using the old plugin, using cage mesh when it ask (it's not neccesary to export shapes texture ecc.. just models and camera)

3. open the fbx scene in MB and characterize it. Animate and PLOT when finish.

4. open lw and import the plotted scene.

5. select the mesh and open the classic scene editor. Select > Select all the bones of the current object

6. open Motion mixer and create an actor. Create a motion and after under the motion menu select "save motion"

7. open the basic scene (the same that u used for export in mb (so it contains the mesh textured, with the weight maps that U created and not the one the MB created!)) and repeat the same steps for creating the actor but instead to use "save motion" use "load motion" and put the motion in the motionmixer timeline.

8. done! congratulation u have your mesh animated perfectly in LW! ;)

as soon I have the permission I'll post some animation using MB and LW

have fun!:thumbsup:

P.S. U'll have problem with motionMixer if u use multiple characters in the scene cuz MB will rename all the bones like Hips_1, Hips_2. etc...

so after u export your motion, open it with a text editor (I suggest u Notepad++) and select "_1". Go to replace and left blank the space where u put the word to replace so it will replace with NOTHING. In this way u reset all the bones name in the correct way so Hips, UpperLeg etc..." repeat it for all the motions saved and after MotionMixer will import it without problems.

WCameron
10-05-2008, 09:29 PM
It would be nice if Newtek recompiled the old plugin and rereleased it. especially for 64 bit versions.


- Will.

Larry_g1s
10-05-2008, 11:36 PM
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one having problems with the release of FBX in 9.5. Thanks duellestyle, I'll give what you mentioned a try.

mattc
10-06-2008, 12:32 AM
It would be nice if Newtek recompiled the old plugin and rereleased it. especially for 64 bit versions.


- Will.

IIRC, Autodesk wouldn't hand it over, so you can forget that idea.

duellestyle
10-06-2008, 04:58 AM
ehy Larry, it works for sure cuz I do it all the times. Now I don't have bostacle about animation. I love MB and I don't waste lots of time rigging and animating anymore, I prefer it to LW and to Maya. I'm waiting for the new realse that has object collision so no more penetrations!!! :hey:

Hope that one day NewTek will implement all the Motion Builder features so I don't have to switch!

enjoy animating...bye!

cheers for LW and MB!!

Larry_g1s
10-06-2008, 08:48 AM
ehy Larry, it works for sure cuz I do it all the times. Now I don't have bostacle about animation. I love MB and I don't waste lots of time rigging and animating anymore, I prefer it to LW and to Maya. I'm waiting for the new realse that has object collision so no more penetrations!!! :hey:

Hope that one day NewTek will implement all the Motion Builder features so I don't have to switch!

enjoy animating...bye!

cheers for LW and MB!!Well I'll be honest, I only installed MB (7.5) to try and get something I did in Maya to LW. I prefer Maya and LW too. I can't seem to do it so I'm looking in to Point Oven.

jayroth
10-06-2008, 10:48 AM
It would be nice if Newtek recompiled the old plugin and rereleased it. especially for 64 bit versions.


- Will.

The old plug was written by, and is property of, Autodesk.

duellestyle
10-06-2008, 12:47 PM
Sincerily, I tried Maya...and sure it's ok for animation, but I like to animate and not to rig. So I found everything u can do in maya in MB but spending little time. There where for example floor contact, so when the hand reach the ground it spread out, way cool. Maybe if I have some creatures with 8 legs or with a strange anatomy, well I'll choose Maya or try the new joint of LW, but if I have to animate biped or quadruped characters...well surely I'll pick up MB!
I repeat, I love to animate and when u see your character move in the way u want to, without strange rotation or pop-up legs..IT'S VERY BEAUTIFULL and SATISFYING...;)

Mr. Jay Roth, I saw that u read this thread, will be possible to implement in LW clusters for using it for facial animation? (or for other stuff)...and please I know that u put all your effort for made Lightwave better, thanks for that, but a fully compatible fbx plugin would make life easier for us animators.

Thanks again.

damianallen
10-06-2008, 12:55 PM
Yes, the FBX functionality is critical to my motioncapture workflow. I'd be more than happy to work with the dev team to provide sample project data, if I knew there is a commitment to getting the FBX import/export working.

jayroth
10-06-2008, 01:02 PM
Yes, the FBX functionality is critical to my motioncapture workflow. I'd be more than happy to work with the dev team to provide sample project data, if I knew there is a commitment to getting the FBX import/export working.

Submit a report with content, and we will look at it. Is that enough of a commitment for you?

damianallen
10-06-2008, 01:48 PM
I hope so :)

Kajico
10-06-2008, 01:49 PM
Does anybody have a link to the old FBX plugin that works? I keep reading about using the old Plugin but I can't find it in my LW 9.3 and the ones that I do find don't load in 9.3 or 9.5...

I'm having the same problem, trying to get LW into Motion Builder.

artstorm
10-06-2008, 03:47 PM
Submit a report with content, and we will look at it. Is that enough of a commitment for you?

Jay, that's real good to hear! :thumbsup:
I've sent in some report and content a few months back with FBX + MB7.5 problems as well, so I hope with more people adding reports and content you get what you need to correct this. It'd be awesome if the FBX export could be fixed and work properly. :)

WCameron
10-06-2008, 07:03 PM
The old plug was written by, and is property of, Autodesk.

Ah yes, I had forgotten that. ah well., Change Newtek to Autodesk in the previous post. heh.

- Will.

aforetaste
10-07-2008, 07:41 PM
Here, here!
Let's get FBX working, please!

colkai
10-08-2008, 02:09 AM
Well, I have had a content in there for FBX and MB5.5 for a not inconsiderable time.
I've found that "import/load" can misbehave and certainly the results are extremely content dependent. Just try pulling in some of the clipart FBX from MB - you get a myriad of differing reactions.
The old 'merge' into scene still gives the most reliable result, without the need to jump through hoops of using motion mixer and creating actors.

A large part of the problem is the number of permutations of FBX and how it is implemented in the saved file from MB. With the latest builds I've found that if I want to use FBX, i have to ensure that frame zero, (or -1) of my scene has a T-pose so I can reset my bones otherwise I end up with some very daft behaviour. (like a mini-mesh locked to the hip bone).

duellestyle
10-08-2008, 02:59 AM
well that's true, if u don't want to use motion mixer u have to remeber to have a T pose fro all your characters at frame 0 ot -1. Anyway I personally prefer to use motion mixer cuz I just load a basic scene that has all my charcters a T pose and apply the motion and maybe if I want to adjust the tracks I can move them back or forward instead to go back to Motion Builder..
Another vantage to use Motion Mixer is when u use more the one character in the scene! When u import your scene with 5 characters for example, Motion Builder rename the bones (Hips_1, Hips_2 etc..) so the merge FBX button wil not work! So you need to fix it in a text editor and the only way to do it is to save the motion.

Everyone can choose his most confortable way...:D

colkai
10-08-2008, 03:46 AM
Oh indeed and please don't think I was in any way belittling your post - it is very useful info.

multipass
10-08-2008, 03:24 PM
Well, I have had a content in there for FBX and MB5.5 for a not inconsiderable time.
I've found that "import/load" can misbehave and certainly the results are extremely content dependent. Just try pulling in some of the clipart FBX from MB - you get a myriad of differing reactions.
The old 'merge' into scene still gives the most reliable result, without the need to jump through hoops of using motion mixer and creating actors.

A large part of the problem is the number of permutations of FBX and how it is implemented in the saved file from MB. With the latest builds I've found that if I want to use FBX, i have to ensure that frame zero, (or -1) of my scene has a T-pose so I can reset my bones otherwise I end up with some very daft behaviour. (like a mini-mesh locked to the hip bone).

where can i find teh merge into scene option. Im using a new copy and cant remember where that command was?

colkai
10-09-2008, 05:22 AM
the latest version doesn't have a 'merge' per se, you import from scene but select motion only. The actual merge is part of the old fbxlw80.p plugin

duellestyle
10-09-2008, 08:02 AM
Ehy Colkai I'm not mad at all, I wrote "there were diferent ways to do it" and I wrote why I choosed that way. This reason of this community is to share our experiences. So thank for yours. Every experiency is welcome so we can learn from one to another and reach wut is our goal.

I just specify why I used that way, cuz u can animate more that 1 charcter avoiding that renaming issue that MB does.

Hope to have a better implementation in the future, I just see some in the new built.

cheer for :lwicon:

colkai
10-09-2008, 09:20 AM
Yup, I admit, I've not had the chance due to "life" to test out the new build, hopefully do it this weekend and see if the same problems exist. I've no shortage of test scenes to try it. ;)

aforetaste
10-09-2008, 02:56 PM
Oooo... If someone gets the chance to try the new build out over the weekend please do post your experience. I'm eager to know if it's working.

aforetaste
10-13-2008, 05:59 AM
Any luck with the new build?

tzury
10-16-2008, 10:47 AM
I'm using MB7.5 (ext2 - 64bit) as well. And just like you, it doesn't work with the new FBX i/o in LW. My Motionbuilder doesn't hang though, it imports the LW exports but with all bone rotations completely messed up.

So I revert back to 32bit LW and the old fbx plugins when I need to interact with MB (almost daily).?

digirob
11-24-2008, 09:27 PM
Wow...glad to see everyone is getting screwy results from LW FBX with Motion Builder.

Man...if NewTek could get that working.

I got the new PLK plugin just to rig up my models from Daz to import the skeleton to MB and then import the motion back to LW.

I've tried everything to get it to work but it just doesn't.

NewTek. Get a copy of Motion Builder and sick someone on this. MB is fast and easy and use to work ok with LW.

-Rob

Larry_g1s
11-24-2008, 09:31 PM
One of the things that I thought was interesting when I opened up MB was it asked what UI face I wanted (how one would want to use it like). It gave LW as an option.

digirob
11-24-2008, 09:34 PM
Larry, you use MB with lightwave much??

-Rob

<><

Larry_g1s
11-24-2008, 09:38 PM
Larry, you use MB with lightwave much??

-Rob

<><You know I really haven't, I just thought it was interesting it gave LW as an option on how to animation like. Is there something you want me to try? <>< <- ;)

digirob
11-24-2008, 09:49 PM
Hey,

I'm just trying to find a workflow with Motion Builder.

It's been frustrating to find a character animation workflow that doesn't take a week get animating.

I've come closer recently than ever before.

MB use to work with LW but not since version 7.5/8.

Programs change so often.

LW seems to have taken a good stab at getting FBX to work with LW but there is still something missing.

BTW...the MB question that ask how you want to animate only refers to the keyboard shortcuts used in MB to that LW and MB navigation are similar.

-Rob

Larry_g1s
11-24-2008, 09:56 PM
BTW...the MB question that ask how you want to animate only refers to the keyboard shortcuts used in MB to that LW and MB navigation are similar.-RobYeah, that's what I meant by UI...sorry nothing else was coming to me on how to explain it. lol

So what version of MB do you have? I have 7.5. I can test to see how well it works. There is a fbx character rigged from aXYZ Design that wasn't importing to LW very well through fbx. It worked well in MB, so I'll see if I can save it out of there better and pull it in to LW. What don't you like about LW's animation tools? I animated a sneak exercise from LW and didn't have any problems.

digirob
11-24-2008, 10:05 PM
Motion Builder is realtime FK/IK is amazing. Just chacterize and go.

I have lots of prebuilt motions that can be tweaked fast into new motions.

It works in realtime. Multiple characters work in realtime....

Re-purposing animation to different characters if fast and very easy. MB is great. Couple that with LW's render and ease of use and the 2 are awesome...when they work together.

-Rob

Larry_g1s
11-24-2008, 10:10 PM
Motion Builder is realtime FK/IK is amazing. Just chacterize and go.

I have lots of prebuilt motions that can be tweaked fast into new motions.

It works in realtime. Multiple characters work in realtime....

Re-purposing animation to different characters if fast and very easy. MB is great. Couple that with LW's render and ease of use and the 2 are awesome...when they work together.

-RobGotcha. :)

digirob
11-24-2008, 10:23 PM
Oh...I didn't mention that I have MB 7.5 ext2.

Nice talkin' with ya.

:)

-Rob

<><

Larry_g1s
11-24-2008, 10:59 PM
Oh...I didn't mention that I have MB 7.5 ext2.

Nice talkin' with ya.

:)

-Rob

<><what's ext2?

artstorm
11-25-2008, 02:45 AM
MB7.5 ext 2 (the latest release of the MB7.5 version) works just fine with LightWave as long as you use the old Autodesk/Kaydara FBX plugins for LightWave. Unfortunately you are locked to the 32bit LightWave then.

The new FBX i/o built in to LightWave is still a no go for a working workflow between MB and LW. Our tests we've done with it shows that the import of boned FBX characters from MB seems to work somewhat okay, but the export of bones from LightWave messes up the rotations.

If they could just get the FBX bone export fixed to have correct rotations, I guess we're at least halfway to a working native LW<->MB workflow. :)

Dodgy
11-25-2008, 03:03 AM
This is odd because I've been testing the fbx export with XSI mod tool and Maya PLE and it comes into them just fine. Have you tried a simple scene to see exactly what it's doing wrong?

artstorm
11-25-2008, 03:13 AM
Well, the simplest way to test it out, is just to bone and object, export it, and then reimport the just exported file in LW, should come in fine, right?

Check the screenshot below, happens to be joints in this particular case, but bones gives just identical result. All bones are all having the wrong rotation.

jburford
11-25-2008, 03:36 AM
Please pass on the Problems with annotations and Content to Newtek to work on or fix! Just posting in here will not fix the issue.

artstorm
11-25-2008, 03:39 AM
Just to add to my post above, when you import an FBX from LW to MB for instance, MB works like joints, so the rotation errors can be a bit hard to spot in MB, as you don't have bones per se. Instead you are missing the visual connections between the joints, but you can still animate like usual, and everything seems pretty normal, unless you start checking the rotation axis. The moment you decide to bring the animation back to LW, you are in a world of nightmare because of the incorrect bone rotations that were added when LW first exported them, even though MB seems to be able to work around them without letting the user really notice, LW don't when the file is returned.

artstorm
11-25-2008, 03:42 AM
Please pass on the Problems with annotations and Content to Newtek to work on or fix! Just posting in here will not fix the issue.

Done that, reported issues with content, concerning this problem and related fbx problems probably around 4-5 times since March, so the ball is in Newtek's court. I'm eagerly awaiting a fix. :)