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View Full Version : HD Instance + PatchIT + Rounder -> LW8!!!



I3D
08-02-2003, 07:41 AM
Hi every one

First of all I'm not sure that this is the right place for this post, if not please feel free to remove it to the Feature Request forum,

ok back to the subject, now we all know that LW modeler and Layout in fact lacks a certin features, and although Newtek are tying their best to develope LW and try to compete with the current market they are still short handed. Allot of people accuse NT of just buying other 3rd party plugins and they just add them to LW and develiver that as an update, this is not a wrong thing to do, considering the advantages of just intergrating these plugins, for starter, these plugins are extremly good and took the authers a considrable time and effort to come with these plugins, now if NT team wanted to make that same functionality of features it would take them the same time if not longer, so the question is why not hire the authers to implement their plugins inside LW and let the NT team focus on other issues and other features. This has the advantage of better implementation of the plugins within LW and can also make certing things faster and better.

For an example of this is the OrthoPedics Pack, The developers stated that the pack is now more powerful due to the inclusion of Ortho pack inside LW and they were able to make more changes and features to it. That bieng said the plugin names mentioned in the Title are one of those plugin that if intergrated within LW then there's no telling how far they will go.

1- HD Instance, Now this is an amazing plugin that a few people know about, it's a RayTracer that runs from within LW that enables the rendering of million of Objects or poly's without the rendering time hit. I've used it allot and believe me it's amazing. Now what if HD Instance was incorporated within LW, for the developer that would mean gaining access to LW built in renders and thus makes HD Instance even more faster and supports all LW features. For the user this mean a great deal, imagine trying to populate a forst with trees, flowers and leaves. we're talking millions here, if I can only make 10 variation for each and populate the forst with only these 30 variations and still render like only having these then who can beat LW????? I did an animation for a Robot and then made three version of him with a slight offset, populated a random points and eventually instanced around 2000 robots to fill the landscape, on an Athlon 1,400 Ghz and 512 RRDRam and D1Pal with Enhanced Medium Antialiasing plus motion blur and RayTraced Shadow and Reflection and Ozone2, Each frame took almost 14 minutes to render and some times it took even less. One of the advantedges that come to my mind is that HD instance can be controlled with a wight map and the distribution can be populated with even more controls like Gradiant and Procedural textures. Belive me Newtek this could be the basis for a Crowed simulation and a very strong one.

2- PatchIt, well if noe ever heard about this one, it's a new a new plugin that will come out from Steve Hurley, I can talk days about what it does but you have to see for yourself to believe it, Steve Hurley did a great JOB and LW Modeler needs this plugin integrated and implemented even more to kick even more ***.

3- Rounder, well you want Rounding routine and fillets like those found in Studio Tools then you'll need Rounder. it's interactive and easy to work with and the results are quite amazing.

There thousands of other different plugins that if integrated within LW they can make LW the strongest in the market and the no. 1 tool out there.

To be realistic NT can't buy every developer out there, I'm aware of the amound of work NT is doing to contune to enhance LW to meet it's user base expectations and to further develope LW and I thank them deeply for that and salute them for it. but you've gone this far with Ortho and other developers like DStorm, please don't be discuraged to do the same with other developers that will LW allot more powerfull than it already is, besides LW does need a modeler update especially now, and you guys need a break from us for a year or so :D so give us these built in inside Lw and I promise we wont bother you for a years or so :D

ok let me just list other plugins that might be of interset to you guys, in case you're willing.

** eVasion3D
1- Shadow Designer, More shadow options that any one can take, it's amazing , ultra fast, and extremly beautifull. after all it seems Mental Ray is the dominant Renderer these days and every one is integrating it in their application. but can it do what Shadow Desginer can do, nope.

2- HyperSmooth, More reflection option that out performs what LW can offer or anyother render out there.

3- Microwave, well Marvin Landis is a great guy and I like him allot, but let's be honest Microwave just kicks ***, I've read an article in cGTalk about Mental Ray and renderman, and there was a guy from ILM outlining the difference between these two, he wasn't to much pleased with LW backing ability and said MentalRay is better in these cases, well I want to see what he'll have to say if microwave is intergrated in LW, you should see the way it Backes volumetrics, damn this one of the best plugins out there and it beats XSI rendermap and LensShaders.

4- X-DOF, well yeah LW Convlution (hope I got that right) filter is good but X-DOF is allot more superior.

**Worley :D

I know I know, it's a long shot, but hey Steve come one and be a nice guy and let Newtek have G2 :D PLEASEeeeeeeeeeeeeee alright what about Polk or Taft then? Sas FULL??? :D

* Steve Hurley HairSpray, I could only imagine if HairSpray and HD instance got integrated togather.


Ok, I'm going to shut up now, I have the feeling some one will beat me up. So ro tap it up, Thanks you bothe NT team and all the other 3rd party developer out there and mentioned here for your great work.

Cheers

I3D

Dick Ma
08-02-2003, 07:57 AM
Do Newtek make somthing on their own in LW8?

Bytehawk
08-02-2003, 07:57 AM
It wouldn't be a bad idea to talk to these companies.

I would stress one point though that when it is included with lightwave it should also be integrated. Not just bolted on top.

example :

the spline modeling tools from Steve Hurley should be a new mode. Like Points, Polygons, Edges, Splines

catch my drift ?

I3D
08-02-2003, 08:15 AM
absolutly I agree with you, and that's what I ment in the first place. these tools are great but they lack small features because they based on the SDK, if they were integrated there is no telling what they'l be able to do.

for instance HD Instance as it stands now can't instance shaders, but if it was integrated then this limitation will be out, and I think it can make use of LW native RayTracer insted of relying on another one. integrating could mean it can make use of particles and MotionMixer for deceision on Crowed Control. what the point of having a crowed control in LW (if newtek is developing one) and you can't render it because of the time and resources it takes, but with HD instance all this is gone and NT can focus on the engine itself while HD instance can develope more option and integrate even more if it's built in.

Dick Ma, like I said, it's not wrong and the advantages are better for all. now imagine for a second that NT would want to come up with their own HD instance or PatchIT, it would take them a allot of time, and besides they can't predict every case, I mean MODO is great but does it have a spline tool Like PatchIt, I daubt that because it's an idia and they there is no possible way to think of every option, if some one else thought about it great, INTEGRATE IT and do't bother to immitate. after all these are LW developers and users, the'll be happy to see their plugin being integrated and their idias evolving, and we'll all benifit.

I3D

jb_gfx
08-02-2003, 08:37 AM
Hi I3D, nice to see here ;)


Originally posted by I3D
1- HD Instance, Now this is an amazing plugin that a few people know about, it's a RayTracer that runs from within LW that enables the rendering of million of Objects or poly's without the rendering time hit.

Well that's not true since HDInstance main advantage is it limits the RAM usage but rendering time or 3 or 4 time slower than built in LightWave's Raytracer.



Originally posted by Dick Ma
Do Newtek make somthing on their own in LW8?

Well, since Mr Ino is now in the dev team then Newtek made the new version of the dynamics engine. They also added a lot of workflow enhancement, and that new IK system. And well integrating third party plugins is pretty cool way to advance imho, why do you want to re-invent the wheel?

Btw, from what I understand Newtek will greatly improve the SDK in a near future. Whoohoo :)

Dick Ma
08-02-2003, 08:59 AM
Actually I have no question about import plugins from third parties but it seems that the third parties dominate the Modeler than NT.

pixelmonk
08-02-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Dick Ma
Do Newtek make somthing on their own in LW8?

Yeah... it's called "Lightwave"

pixelmonk
08-02-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Dick Ma
Actually I have no question about import plugins from third parties but it seems that the third parties dominate the Modeler than NT.

Check out Maya mel sites. There's TONS of scripts that help making modeling in Maya 1000x easier. That's nothing new. I could care less who's name is on the script or plugin. If it's something I need to get the job done, I'll use it. Most of those Lscripts are free, or for purchase at a minimal cost.

pixelmonk
08-02-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by jb_gfx
Hi I3D, nice to see here ;)



Well that's not true since HDInstance main advantage is it limits the RAM usage but rendering time or 3 or 4 time slower than built in LightWave's Raytracer.

One of the problems is the LW 3rd party developer base is relatively small, and frankly.. it's not that lucrative. I can't speak for any of them, but I'm sure that they can't have their sole income come from their plugins, so they have a "day job" too. This means they can't work a full 8 hour (or more) day on their cool plugins. I applaud their efforts in trying to develop these cool tools for Lightwave. I know for all of them, it's a labor of love. They love Lightwave and love to tinker under the hood.

Another developer with some nice stuff is OGO in Japan. He's the dude that brought us Hakari and Taiki. Granted, those 2 plugins are slow, but damn accurate and have a very nice output. With enough development time, I'm sure the code could be optimized to make render times shorter and have the final output look even better than it does now.

here's a quick cruddy pic I did early this year with a HD Instance trees and a Taiki sky (complete with environment solution which works well with Radiosity). I still needed to work on the sky as it wasn't the look I was going for.

http://www.pixelmonk.com/tai_snow.jpg

I3D
08-02-2003, 10:20 AM
well said pixelmonk.

I too believe that if these plugin are given a fair amount of development time they'll be unmatched, and who knows they might love the idia oh having their plugin integrated and developed within LW.

anywa, let's all hope for the best and give a hand of applaud to all the LW developers out there, ok NT to :D

I3D

Karmacop
08-02-2003, 11:38 AM
Patchit looks amazing and it's very interactive etc etc but ... I can't see myself needing it for anything ... does anyone want to tell me what it'd be good/faster than at the moment? Thanks.

Dodgy
08-02-2003, 11:51 AM
It'd be interesting if a 3d package could be built on an open source style basis. I mean, there are lots of free LW plugins out there which really do extend LW's capabilities quite a lot, but they have to be found and added by the user at the moment, when it would be really cool if NT could just include them on the cd and install them with the rest, assigning them to a good place in the menus (I think the menus could do with a bit of a re jig at the mo so they make a bit more sense. I've completely re built my mouse menus so i don't have to touch the side menus). I mean, edgetools is free, and such a useful plugin it would be cool to have it ship with LW. That way NT could concentrate on rebuilding the core to make it more open to 3rd parties, and the 3rd parties could make better plugins.

How viable would this be? Just throwing out there....

stone
08-02-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Dick Ma
Do Newtek make somthing on their own in LW8?

do you ever actually think to draw your conclusions, or do you just troll the forum?

now i made a stupid post too, but compared to yours, mine makes sense.

/stone

js33
08-02-2003, 05:21 PM
Here my 2 cents...

I agree that incorporating said plugins into the core would be better but NT can't possibly buy out every developer out there.
Also some may not want to sell out. Either way whether they are incorporated into the core or not those plugins are all available to be used by LWers. Also NT has always included alot of the freebie stuff over the years. They say that INO is now part of the LW team but he already was...at least his name is in the credits on 7.5. He created MD and PFX but I guess now they are integrated rather than addins. Plus alot more useful and powerful in 8 than what we have now.

Also some say that NT should just make the core and let all the new functions come from plugins? Then it would be like MAX I suppose. I don't know if that would be good or bad.

Cheers,
JS

Dick Ma
08-02-2003, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by stone
do you ever actually think to draw your conclusions, or do you just troll the forum?

now i made a stupid post too, but compared to yours, mine makes sense.

/stone

Of course, I had think about what I would like to express. It's a long time ago about the release of LW 7.5. But most plugins are heavy rely on the third parties.

There is no plugin page for LW website for us to improve the functions. Or I would suggest Newtek make a plugin page to register plugins that approved by Newtek and developed by Newtek.

Sorry stone, you are writing no content, too.

pixelmonk
08-02-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by Dick Ma
Of course, I had think about what I would like to express. It's a long time ago about the release of LW 7.5. But most plugins are heavy rely on the third parties.

There is no plugin page for LW website for us to improve the functions. Or I would suggest Newtek make a plugin page to register plugins that approved by Newtek and developed by Newtek.

Sorry stone, you are writing no content, too.

Everything you just wrote made no sense. If you're trying to say there's no forum for giving Newtek your wish list, then you aren't looking hard enough. The forum on this server. Any plugins made by Newtek are included in LW... look at the feature list page, if you're looking for a "webpage"