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View Full Version : Broken Bend Tool - Help.



Xennon
09-08-2008, 10:35 AM
I am trying to follow William Vaughan's video tutorial on creating a thread and all was going well until he uses the bend tool - he said to hold down control and left-click and drag. The tool message at the bottom of the screen also says that CTRL contrains the tool BUT - on my machine (and this only seems to happen with the bend tool) the tool IS NOT constrained. I even tried clicking the middle mouse button instead of control key and the movement is completely un-constrained.

Am i doing something wrong here or is this a bug in 9.5? I am a total noob in LW so I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong.

As a test I tried several other tools to see if maybe my mouse was messed up but all other tools work fine but the bend tool will not behave.

Anyone else had this issue?

Bliz
09-08-2008, 10:37 AM
Sorry, I used it this morning in 9.5.1 build 1456 and it constrained fine.
<shrug>

cagey5
09-08-2008, 10:56 AM
I think there's some confusion as to what the constrain does. It will limit the bend to stepped increments, it won't stop you slewing the bend from side to side.. handy though that would be. I really should make a feature request for that.

Ztreem
09-08-2008, 11:05 AM
Never worked for me as well and I've used LW or a long time. I always have to use the numeric window to make a bend in a constrained manner. I always thought the bend tool didn't support ctrl constrain, I wonder what's wrong? all the other tools works just fine.

Ztreem
09-08-2008, 11:06 AM
I think there's some confusion as to what the constrain does. It will limit the bend to stepped increments, it won't stop you slewing the bend from side to side.. handy though that would be. I really should make a feature request for that.

Ah OK, then it's nothing wrong then.

+1 for the feature request.

Xennon
09-08-2008, 11:10 AM
I think there's some confusion as to what the constrain does. It will limit the bend to stepped increments, it won't stop you slewing the bend from side to side.. handy though that would be. I really should make a feature request for that.

So you're saying this is normal behavior for this tool? It doesn't make sense when all other tools (that i know of) are absolutely constrained regardless as to how fast or slow or to what degree you move them + the message box clearly says "CTRL constrains angle", the small increments you speak of are probably just the snaps that are going on as you move the tool - turn off snap and you would be very hard pressed to move this thing along any axis accurately.

As a side note - is the "Angle" slider in the numeric window supposed to be dynamic?

Ztreem
09-08-2008, 11:19 AM
So you're saying this is normal behavior for this tool? It doesn't make sense when all other tools (that i know of) are absolutely constrained regardless as to how fast or slow or to what degree you move them + the message box clearly says "CTRL constrains angle", the small increments you speak of are probably just the snaps that are going on as you move the tool - turn off snap and you would be very hard pressed to move this thing along any axis accurately.

As a side note - is the "Angle" slider in the numeric window supposed to be dynamic?

Ctrl constrain seems to make the angle to jump 15 degrees at the time and has nothing to do with other snapping tools.

If you by dynamic mean that it should show/bend the geometry while you move the slider? then I can only say that the bend tool has never updated the angle in realtime that's why you need the apply button. :thumbsdow

more interactive tools would be nice, maybe one day.

cagey5
09-08-2008, 11:23 AM
So you're saying this is normal behavior for this tool? Yes It doesn't make sense when all other tools (that i know of) are absolutely constrained regardless as to how fast or slow or to what degree you move them Hey go tell Newtek, I'm only the messenger :)+ the message box clearly says "CTRL constrains angle", the small increments you speak of are probably just the snaps that are going on as you move the tool Nope, It's the action of holding down the ctl key constraining the bend to 15 steps - turn off snap and you would be very hard pressed to move this thing along any axis accurately.

As a side note - is the "Angle" slider in the numeric window supposed to be dynamic? dunno

Xennon
09-08-2008, 11:24 AM
I just downloaded and installed the trial version and the exact same thing (on another box) is happening - no constrain at all on the bend tool.

I am also having a hard time working out how to use the numeric window to compensate for this "bug/feature" ... whatever I enter in the "Angel" box give me really weird results.

Can someone please explain the exact procedure to use the numeric window to tell the bend tool how far to bend and in what direction?

In my case - very simple - I want to wrap a rectangular flat mesh around the Y axis 360 degrees.

My apologies if my noob'ness is the problem. (even the manual says CTRL constrains the angle)

meshpig
09-08-2008, 11:31 AM
Am i doing something wrong here or is this a bug in 9.5? I am a total noob in LW so I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong.



No, it's not a bug or your mouse. Think about what you're bending. It's a kick (( tool but also one which isn't obvious at first. Give yourself time.

-2 bends through 360 degrees on a sub d plane will give you this sort of thing in a matter of minutes..OK, I've had a few glasses of wine already.
62996
m

Xennon
09-08-2008, 11:41 AM
No, it's not a bug or your mouse. Think about what you're bending. It's a kick (( tool but also one which isn't obvious at first. Give yourself time.

-2 bends through 360 degrees on a sub d plane will give you this sort of thing in a matter of minutes..OK, I've had a few glasses of wine already.
m

ummm ... sorry but i have no clue what all that means.

meshpig
09-08-2008, 11:42 AM
I don't believe it's that hard to figure out how it constrains. I mean screw the key, you can see how it constrains by using it and if you use the numeric midway you get the benefit of both... like run a sub d rectangle through 90 deg manually and when you go numeric, you can make a perfect "S" etc.

m:devil:

meshpig
09-08-2008, 11:45 AM
ummm ... sorry but i have no clue what all that means.

No problem, I'll post/explain tomorrow ... got to get some sleep.

m

Bliz
09-08-2008, 05:15 PM
I think there's some confusion as to what the constrain does. It will limit the bend to stepped increments, it won't stop you slewing the bend from side to side.. handy though that would be. I really should make a feature request for that.

Hmm. Are you sure? I'm not on my LW rig right now but I'm sure as long as you do the bend in an orthographic viewport (not the perspective) it will constrain the bend to an axis.

Xennon
09-08-2008, 05:29 PM
Hmm. Are you sure? I'm not on my LW rig right now but I'm sure as long as you do the bend in an orthographic viewport (not the perspective) it will constrain the bend to an axis.

Not for me and apparently not for others either - The only constraining that goes on is a 15 degree snap constrain while CTRL is held. This is not what the manual, tutorials or the message at the bottom of the screen implies. Sadly, I have not been able to say constrain the mouse to only move up/down or left/right like other constrainable tools like move and stretch using the ctrl key.

To make things worse (for me) the numeric panel seems equally un-cooperative in that I have no idea how to for example wrap a flat mesh into a cylinder-ish shape using this tool (and keep the sides perfectly vertical or horizontal) like a video tutorial was showing me.

I'd be interested to hear if your setup is somehow different, although I doubt it.

JMCarrigan
09-08-2008, 06:13 PM
Is there a free screen recorder? I'd like to record the steps to use the bend tool, at least in regards to this issue.

jaf
09-08-2008, 08:45 PM
"Constrain" is confusing when there are two possible constraints.

Create a cube and in the top view, center with F2, and rotate it using the ctrl key rotate constrain to position an edge on the origin axis. Then select the top face. Now here's the problem. Using bend, one could constrain the axis the bending takes place in, or the amount of bending (say 15 degrees at a time) that takes place.

I guess the choice by Newtek of bend-constrain was made to the constraint of rotational bending instead of axis bending.

Maybe a "Bend Axis" tool which would respond to the initial mouse movement or a numeric checkbox like "[ ] Axis x y z" would be better? But probably constraining to rotation and axis would be best since a "constrained move" could follow to complete the final position.

cagey5
09-09-2008, 02:21 AM
Hmm. Are you sure?I am, but ... I'm not on my LW rig right now but I'm sure Are you? as long as you do the bend in an orthographic viewport (not the perspective) it will constrain the bend to an axis.

Though I've posted another thread about erratic behaviour with the bend tool. I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts on that.

Wolvy_UK
09-09-2008, 07:31 AM
Is there a free screen recorder? I'd like to record the steps to use the bend tool, at least in regards to this issue.


The only completely free one I know of is Camstudio (Not to be confused with Camtasia).

I used it myself a few years ago trying it out and after messing with a few setttings it was pretty usable. It' s not as advanced as Camtasia, so there' s no editing video in it (use free virtualDub to edit if you need to), but it does the main job of capturing the screen, and it's free so can' t complain.

There' s some videos on how to use it on Youtube ( Jimmyrcom seems like the best one ), they should get you set up and recording in no time.

I got Camtasia 3 for free with a special offer recently when version 5 was out and posted info on these forums about it. So keep an eye out next year or something when version 6 comes out and they may do the free download thing again.

Bliz
09-09-2008, 07:49 AM
Solved the mystery - use the MIDDLE mouse button with the CTRL key and you'll get the behaviour you want.

I just tried it now because I thought I was going senile or something. I suddenly remembered that the middle mouse button is used to axis constrain for the move tool (I use it all the time in perspective view to eliminate the need to go from one perpective view to the quad view just to move something on one axis) and probably for a few other tools that I don't remember off the top of my head - so it made sense that the two contraints would work together.

cagey5
09-09-2008, 08:23 AM
Strange. Middle mouse button makes no difference here. [edit] well it functions the same as the left button does with the control key held down. In other words I get the stepped curving but still able to slew the side angle.

Bliz
09-09-2008, 08:54 AM
Hmm? maybe it's a mouse-sensitivity issue? I don't get an absolute constraint, if I'm doing a horizontal mouse movement but move my mouse up or down a bit (roughly 10degrees from horizontal) it will snap out of it's constraint. But if I consciously attempt a constrained bend I'll get it most of the time.

Xennon
09-09-2008, 09:42 AM
Solved the mystery - use the MIDDLE mouse button with the CTRL key and you'll get the behaviour you want.

Nope - doesn't work for me. I know that the middle mouse button can be used as a substitute for left-click-drag with ctrl key down, so I'm guessing that is that same with the bend tool so it's either middle mouse button & drag or ctrl+left-mouse button drag. Using both has no effect on behavior.

I think that's just how the tool was designed to work - unfortunately, and there really is no axis constrain available for this tool. Being such a touchy tool to use, I don't know why it was never implemented.

cagey5
09-09-2008, 09:46 AM
I've raised it as a feature request. Add to the thread to raise its' profile if you think it's worth implementing.

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633

JMCarrigan
09-10-2008, 07:54 AM
The only completely free one I know of is Camstudio (Not to be confused with Camtasia).

I used it myself a few years ago trying it out and after messing with a few setttings it was pretty usable. It' s not as advanced as Camtasia, so there' s no editing video in it (use free virtualDub to edit if you need to), but it does the main job of capturing the screen, and it's free so can' t complain.

There' s some videos on how to use it on Youtube ( Jimmyrcom seems like the best one ), they should get you set up and recording in no time.

I got Camtasia 3 for free with a special offer recently when version 5 was out and posted info on these forums about it. So keep an eye out next year or something when version 6 comes out and they may do the free download thing again.

Thanky!:bowdown:

meshpig
09-10-2008, 08:45 AM
This is all a bit strange because the bend tool doesn't actually key constrain and it never has. It just looks like it does.

cagey5
09-10-2008, 01:39 PM
It does, just not in the manner you'd expect. It constrains the bend to 15 steps. Without the CTL key you can do very fine steps. See my feature request and add a vote if you agree.

parm
09-10-2008, 03:13 PM
The bend tool takes a bit of practice. Enabling Grid Snap in the display options makes it a little easier to manage.

dave_paige
09-10-2008, 04:42 PM
Sorry, I used it this morning in 9.5.1 build 1456 and it constrained fine.
<shrug>

And, how does one get ahold of 9.5.1?

Xennon
09-13-2008, 05:35 PM
9.5.1 ?? How do u even see the exact version u have? .. I only have (in the title bar) 9.5 and in the about window .. build 1445.

I recently installed a trial version but didn't note the exact version - it may not even match the current retail version anyway, not sure.

A Mejias
09-14-2008, 05:04 PM
9.5.1? There is no 9.5.1.

Move along, Nothing to see here. Move along.

JMCarrigan
09-15-2008, 09:07 AM
9.5.1 ?? How do u even see the exact version u have? .. I only have (in the title bar) 9.5 and in the about window .. build 1445.

I recently installed a trial version but didn't note the exact version - it may not even match the current retail version anyway, not sure.

I see you just joined. 9.5.1 is not available to you. When it is released it will be.