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Richard Hebert
09-03-2008, 04:57 PM
Animation render crashes while using hypervoxel feature. I'm using LW 9.3. Did some research on the forum and saw similar issues. Has anyone here run across this issue and any thoughts on how it might be worked around? Thanks for input.

Richard Hebert
09-03-2008, 05:01 PM
I must mention that I've had success rendering out the hypervoxels as a volumetric. The program crashes when rendering out sprites, however.

Chilton
09-03-2008, 05:20 PM
Hi,

Any chance you have some content I could test this with?

Thanks!
-Chilton

Richard Hebert
09-03-2008, 06:04 PM
This is the test scene that I'm having problems with. I've removed all models and left just the emitters. Let me know if you're able to open the zipped file as I've not used this zipping program before. Frame 86 is a frame that causes crashes consistently. I'm noticing that whenever the sprites fill the screen is when the problems are consistent. The camera I rendered from is called Observation. The Side camera rendered ok. I'm using a single core Mac Mini if that helps in isolating problems. I've been able to do a fair amount of 3D without crashes before so I don't believe this to be a hardware issue just yet. Thanks for any help.

Chilton
09-03-2008, 10:03 PM
Hi,

No crashes here, but I'm running 9.5. If you join the Open Beta, you can download that version. I'm curious if it fixes it, or if the problem is something else.

-Chilton

toby
09-04-2008, 01:47 AM
Bam!
Crashes every time using CFM LW, but not the Universal Binary.

My system is 2x2 G5 / Tiger / LW 9.3

Richard Hebert
09-04-2008, 07:20 AM
Where do I navigate to download the beta? Thanks Toby for proving I'm not going crazy over here. For awhile, I thought it was my error.

Richard Hebert
09-04-2008, 04:37 PM
How do I get involved in the 9.5 open beta program?

Chilton
09-04-2008, 04:44 PM
Hi,

Go to Register.newtek.com and make sure you've registered your 9.x version. Once you have, you'll see a banner somewhere there for the 9.5 Open Beta. Click that, and I think it will ask you to agree to an NDA, and then you're in.

-Chilton

Richard Hebert
09-04-2008, 04:48 PM
Got it... thanks Chilton.

CaptainCheckout
09-30-2008, 09:08 PM
Hi Guys,

I'm running UB 9.3.1 on OS X, G5 Mac with 5GB Ram. Experienced a consistent crash on render around frame 7 with a small scene using Hypervoxel sprites with clip maps.

Have been tearing my hair out, breaking the scene into parts to comp together later to just get it done.

I saw this post and took Chilton's advice and downloaded the 9.5 Beta version. Set up the new version and just set it off to render. It has crashed on frame 42. It's better but not solved. Weird that the situation has improved but has not been fixed.

The problem is definitely with the volumetrics - see the error message I receive below:

Rendering frame 42, segment 1/1, pass 1/1.
Rendering opaque polygons.
Rendering volumetrics.
ScreamerNet(14709,0xff72e000) malloc: *** mmap(size=417792) failed (error code=12)
*** error: can't allocate region
*** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug
ScreamerNet(14709,0xff830000) malloc: *** mmap(size=417792) failed (error code=12)

Tried rendering locally and get the same problem.

I don't really want to make the sprites into objects because I think the scene will get really heavy to negotiate and render.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, thanks. :thumbsup:

Richard Hebert
09-30-2008, 09:19 PM
Just saw your post. I've tried to use the 9.5 beta on my Mac but the software just won't recognize my key even after spending time on the phone with techs. I was hopeful that the sprite problem had been resolved in 9.5. Are you experiencing the same problems when using volumetrics or just the sprites? I had no problems when rendering true volumetrics only when rendering the 'magic' number of sprites onscreen at a certain frame and then crashed every time. I'm sure the problem will get resolved with a fix but makes test renders using many sprites somewhat of a problem.

toby
09-30-2008, 09:50 PM
Hi Guys,

I'm running UB 9.3.1 on OS X, G5 Mac with 5GB Ram. Experienced a consistent crash on render around frame 7 with a small scene using Hypervoxel sprites with clip maps.

Have been tearing my hair out, breaking the scene into parts to comp together later to just get it done.

I saw this post and took Chilton's advice and downloaded the 9.5 Beta version. Set up the new version and just set it off to render. It has crashed on frame 42. It's better but not solved. Weird that the situation has improved but has not been fixed.
How much ram is it using to render the bad frames?

Chilton
10-01-2008, 06:12 PM
Hi,

Hi Guys,

I'm running UB 9.3.1 on OS X, G5 Mac with 5GB Ram. Experienced a consistent crash on render around frame 7 with a small scene using Hypervoxel sprites with clip maps.

Have been tearing my hair out, breaking the scene into parts to comp together later to just get it done.

I saw this post and took Chilton's advice and downloaded the 9.5 Beta version. Set up the new version and just set it off to render. It has crashed on frame 42. It's better but not solved. Weird that the situation has improved but has not been fixed.

The problem is definitely with the volumetrics - see the error message I receive below:

Rendering frame 42, segment 1/1, pass 1/1.
Rendering opaque polygons.
Rendering volumetrics.
ScreamerNet(14709,0xff72e000) malloc: *** mmap(size=417792) failed (error code=12)
*** error: can't allocate region
*** set a breakpoint in malloc_error_break to debug
ScreamerNet(14709,0xff830000) malloc: *** mmap(size=417792) failed (error code=12)

Tried rendering locally and get the same problem.

I don't really want to make the sprites into objects because I think the scene will get really heavy to negotiate and render.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, thanks. :thumbsup:

Head to the Open Beta section and file a bug report.

-Chilton

CaptainCheckout
10-01-2008, 07:08 PM
Hi Clinton,

Im happy to file a bug report in the Open Beta section. However, registering the problem there feels as if the problem is being treated as Beta version issue which of course it isn't.

The problem exists in 9.3.1 and I upgraded to the beta version to try and fix the problem being experienced in the released version.

I'm guessing that what we're saying here is we just can't use sprites in the latest release on the Mac? As there is no release date yet for the Mac 9.5 version it appears there is no solution to the problem in the short term.

Please confirm the problem exists and cannot be solved quickly so that I can stop fiddling with settings and go and try and find an alternative solution. Unfortunately the company paying me is far more interested in seeing their animation than hearing about program development issues - you know how it is!

Thanks Clinton. CC

CaptainCheckout
10-01-2008, 08:19 PM
Hi Richard,

Not sure about rendering volume hypervoxels. I have just completed a scene with lots surface hypervoxels and they rendered fine in 9.3.1. I'll try to do a test later and get back to you.

Hi Toby,

I'm not that great at analyzing Macs - I'm a MCSE which is great for PC's but have only been working on a MAC full time for about 6 months so please forgive my ignorance. The real and virtual memory in Activity Monitor slowly increases with time as more frames are rendered in the scene. Presumably, it gets eaten up to a point where there is none left and then crashes. OS X manages the memory automatically so there is no way to allocate or prioritize the memory - that I know of anyway. The point at which it crashes presumably depends on the load on the system which differs depending on the other apps I might be using at the same time. I do try and keep the number of apps open to a minimum whilst I'm rendering of course. Overnight renders tend to crash on the same frame because the operating environment is the same each time ie just lightwave open.

I have 5Gb of RAM. It's rendered 65 frames and the memory usage climbed steadily up to 2.65GB when it crashed. It appeared that I still had about 1.5Gb of RAM available when it crashed. I think that perhaps, for some reason the memory is not being released from the RAM after each is frame has completed.

System specs:

2 x 3Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
5Gb 667 DDR2 FB-Dimm RAM
NVidia GeForce 7300GT
1Tb Hard Drive (465GB available - mirrored) 2 x 465GB Intel Serial ATA Drives

toby
10-01-2008, 09:23 PM
Hi Toby,

I'm not that great at analyzing Macs - I'm a MCSE which is great for PC's but have only been working on a MAC full time for about 6 months so please forgive my ignorance. The real and virtual memory in Activity Monitor slowly increases with time as more frames are rendered in the scene. Presumably, it gets eaten up to a point where there is none left and then crashes. OS X manages the memory automatically so there is no way to allocate or prioritize the memory - that I know of anyway. The point at which it crashes presumably depends on the load on the system which differs depending on the other apps I might be using at the same time. I do try and keep the number of apps open to a minimum whilst I'm rendering of course. Overnight renders tend to crash on the same frame because the operating environment is the same each time ie just lightwave open.

I have 5Gb of RAM. It's rendered 65 frames and the memory usage climbed steadily up to 2.65GB when it crashed. It appeared that I still had about 1.5Gb of RAM available when it crashed. I think that perhaps, for some reason the memory is not being released from the RAM after each is frame has completed.
You seem to know more than I do :) But it just sounds like you're running out of Ram.
I'm just talking from an experience I had (on PC) with sprites, where crashes were common if memory usage reached 2gb. If that place had been *smart* they would've let us split the scenes up so fewer sprites could be rendered at any one time, then composited back together. That's one workaround. The 5gb on your machine won't help very much with 32bit LW.

Will it keep going if you restart the render at the later frame, once you've restarted LW?

Some other things to try :

Reduce the sprite slices to 1
Use as few lights as possible for them
Reduce raytracing as much as possible
Reducing your texture memory ; like converting your maps to 8bit / index color.

And you're not using jpg's as texture maps are you?

toby
10-01-2008, 09:26 PM
Oh and if this is fixed in 9.5, you can use the beta version for production if you so choose.

CaptainCheckout
10-02-2008, 07:44 PM
Hi Toby,

I have tried all your the suggestions already - great minds think alike! But thanks anyway.

Compositing the scene would be fine but it really only comprises of the sprites and a very small object so unfortunately I won't save much system resources rendering separate layers. All the sprites need to flow into each other so rendering different sprite passes would prove difficult.

I think you're onto the correct diagnosis though because the scene keeps going from a later frame after restarting LW. In fact this is the simplest solution - just keep restarting terminal with screamer net running and the scene kicks off for another 70 frames. 20 clicks and I should be through the scene just to get it out!

There's only about 8000 particles in the scene - not huge by any means. I have tried tga's and now using png's sequences (with embedded alphas) for the sprite clips - is there a history of problems with sprites and image formats? (you mentioned jpegs).

Thanks for you help, let's hope Newtek fix this because sprites are an invaluable asset - well to me at least!

toby
10-02-2008, 10:01 PM
JPG's have caused problems for LW in the past, but the last time I tested it I couldn't get it to perform any worse than other formats, maybe it's been addressed. JPG quality sucks anyway... Tga or png should be fine

I forgot to mention the Segment Memory limit trick, did you try that - it might not work but it's worth a shot.

Richard Hebert
10-03-2008, 05:39 AM
Hi Guys,

I'm extremely new to LightWave but wouldn't the memory demands be greater if you switched from sprites to volumes? Just trying to get a better handle on some of the 'mechanics' so please excuse my ignorance if I'm mistaken.

Richard

toby
10-04-2008, 04:24 PM
I think it depends on how it's programmed, I wouldn't even hazard a guess. I'd think sprites wouldn't be memory hogs at all, but they are, even without textures.

Richard Hebert
10-04-2008, 04:53 PM
That explains the sprite issue then. Tif files are much larger files than Jpegs, will this bog down LightWave's efficiency (longer render times etc.) on projects that use primarily .tif files for all textures, bumps...? Just trying to avoid some bumps that others have already gone over. Thanks for the quick responses. I'm learning LightWave at my home on a Mac Mini until the studio can fund our endeavor into the 3D world. This is new to all of us over here and all of you on the forum are actually the ones making it happen for us.

Richard

toby
10-04-2008, 05:29 PM
This is just the place for you then! Welcome Welcome.

Tifs are actually no bigger than jpg's, once loaded into LW's memory; they're only bigger on disk. LW reads the files and keeps the pixel values in memory, so they're the same size. I still recommend you don't use jpg's with LW. PNG and TGA are probably the best bets, maybe .EXR too. These formats support 8-bit/index color which *will* take up less memory than jpg's, exactly one third as much (24bit /3 = 8bit).

Richard Hebert
10-04-2008, 05:47 PM
Got it. Thanks Toby. And now, I'm going to go walk in the park... literally. I've got to get away from this machine for awhile.