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View Full Version : 9.5 BONE IK. Absolutely beautiful.



guardonduty
08-27-2008, 07:58 AM
The BONE IK apparently has totally been rebuilt. Check out this demo. Unbelievable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BljvQgXS_WY&NR=1

3DGFXStudios
08-27-2008, 08:04 AM
dude

moussepipi2000
08-27-2008, 08:11 AM
Ik seem so easy !

guardonduty
08-27-2008, 08:21 AM
Here's an OLDER IK tutorial done by the Same guy. He too was having difficulty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olpoTEiTG8g

RebelHill
08-27-2008, 09:09 AM
pah.... childs play...

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87645

virtualcomposer
08-27-2008, 09:36 AM
can't wait for 9.5 to come out in Mac!

ranhell
08-27-2008, 10:56 AM
it works for me, i had a problem with how bones were displaying in layout.
im good to go for now....

adamredwoods
08-27-2008, 11:28 AM
Big improvement for BONES in LW9.5, I am happy about.
You can finally, start animating and making good rigs:

- Target now works properly, multiple targets in same chain, even with IK
- Soft IK, which helps reduce IK popping
- Multiple Goals work VERY well in IK
- YZGoal, an excellent addition to the rigging toolset (see my UP VECTOR post for examples)

Joints, in my opinion, I'm cautious about since I don't know why they look the same as Z-bones but are very different thought process when using and setting up.

I also have a thread about one of the pitfalls in joints:
http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87787

But they do work well for stretchy rigs as shown here:
http://www.jumpcut.com/view?id=408145E0594911DDB039000423CF382E

"Same as Item" controller I'm so-so about the usage. I think the FOLLOWER Motion plugin is more robust.

adamredwoods
08-27-2008, 11:38 AM
Oh, also forgot:
- keyable IK/FK blending

Joker II
08-27-2008, 11:38 AM
Great to hear this, but, the thing I would love to see is someone from NewTek actually showing this being done on a real character !

I mean, it all sounds nice and looks nice, but, there is a big difference between creating a few bones and letting bones react with a character that has weight maps !

adamredwoods
08-27-2008, 11:43 AM
We have a rig from the BETA forums that I could post here, so people can play with it. I'll do it when I get home tonight.

The Dommo
08-27-2008, 11:50 AM
hey that's a great vid!

guardonduty
08-27-2008, 02:51 PM
Man. People must love this Youtube Bone IK video. It had 80 views this morning. It's now up to 231. not bad

prospector
08-28-2008, 12:47 AM
I get a ;
line 266... invalid object reference
in a red bar at bottom when I hit the button like you did in vid...

You run into that?

Giacomo99
08-28-2008, 05:59 PM
I mean, it all sounds nice and looks nice, but, there is a big difference between creating a few bones and letting bones react with a character that has weight maps !

Bingo. My thoughts exactly.

novawave
08-29-2008, 10:59 AM
wow....cool..i never thought it would be easier on Lightwave..

but as Mr J and Mr G said,..wanna see the example on real weight mapped character,..(since sometimes old LW bone get weird problem on heavily tuned Weight map)

but cant denied the fact that this is a great improvement,..i mean ,..now on LIghtwave(yes Lightwave... as you read... ) "hey we could make some IK rigged feet less than 10 cliks" (or whatever, the point is ,..now it much easier and faster)..fufufu

jasonwestmas
08-29-2008, 11:42 AM
Big improvement for BONES in LW9.5, I am happy about.
You can finally, start animating and making good rigs:

- Target now works properly, multiple targets in same chain, even with IK
- Soft IK, which helps reduce IK popping
- Multiple Goals work VERY well in IK
- YZGoal, an excellent addition to the rigging toolset (see my UP VECTOR post for examples)

Joints, in my opinion, I'm cautious about since I don't know why they look the same as Z-bones but are very different thought process when using and setting up.

I also have a thread about one of the pitfalls in joints:
http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87787

But they do work well for stretchy rigs as shown here:
http://www.jumpcut.com/view?id=408145E0594911DDB039000423CF382E

"Same as Item" controller I'm so-so about the usage. I think the FOLLOWER Motion plugin is more robust.

Thanks to you and others for keeping us updated on this!:thumbsup:

jasonwestmas
08-29-2008, 11:46 AM
wow....cool..i never thought it would be easier on Lightwave..

but as Mr J and Mr G said,..wanna see the example on real weight mapped character,..(since sometimes old LW bone get weird problem on heavily tuned Weight map)

but cant denied the fact that this is a great improvement,..i mean ,..now on LIghtwave(yes Lightwave... as you read... ) "hey we could make some IK rigged feet less than 10 cliks" (or whatever, the point is ,..now it much easier and faster)..fufufu

Weight mapping in lw is really too time consuming, I hope NT tackles a better solution right away. As for using influence bones. . .meh, not as precise as I would like:P

Chris S. (Fez)
08-29-2008, 02:15 PM
Adam, have you figured out an efficient way to rig/animate stretchy IK without the character turning completely into silly puddy?


"But they do work well for stretchy rigs as shown here:
http://www.jumpcut.com/view?id=40814...39000423CF382E"

For instance, the stretchyIK arm in your example looks like "silly puddy" because the rig does not know to respect the length of the forearm when IK solving. This is why Max/Maya Stretchy IK rigs are equipped with a negative 100% to 200% sliders (ie. the bone should squash only if its stretch slider is less than 100% and stretch only if the slider is over 100%).

adamredwoods
08-29-2008, 03:44 PM
Oh, you mean the arm shrinks width-wise if the length is stretched?
I don't think it did.

Chris S. (Fez)
08-29-2008, 04:55 PM
When animating a character's arm we typically want the upper arm and forearm to maintain their lengths until we need them to overextend (stretch) or underextend (squash). Since joints are always squashy their lengths are accordingly constantly shifting to accomodate for IK, which makes posing and interpolation strange.

Does that make any sense?

adamredwoods
08-29-2008, 05:39 PM
Ah. Yes, A S&S switch or something. I don't think that can be done right now without a little trickery since the controllers can't be changed on the fly.

BUT joints don't always have to be stretchy. It depends how you have the Joint IK setup:

- IK on the rotation controllers will result in normal bending without stretching.

- IK setup on the Position channels will result in stretching. Also, you can apply limits in the Z position channel to limit the amount of stretching or squashing.

Mixed chains (position/rotation) I don't know about since I haven't tried it, but worth a shot.

cresshead
08-29-2008, 06:35 PM
nice vid thanks for creating it and sharing on youtube!

geothefaust
09-06-2008, 10:37 AM
I'm digging the ease of use we are finally getting with joint bones, and the new script. But, and I hate to be the only naysayer on this, when will we get something similar for spines, or tails? Setting up legs and arms I'm finding to be the easiest part of a rig, while the spine is very complicated.

cresshead
09-06-2008, 11:33 AM
dont' get sucked into the stupidity of flex you need in a spine...you don't' unless your creating a spine of a cat or a snake...

human spine is VERY stiff and you don't need 30+bones for it...more like 3 or 5 bones.

geothefaust
09-06-2008, 12:38 PM
Err, sorry. I guess I should clarify.

What I want is a script that sets up all the constraints, nulls for hips, shoulders, etc. Similar to how XSI does it, or how RebelHill's or Pooby's rigs work. Now that we have one for setting up arms and legs simply, I can only assume that a simple spine one will be made at some point. :)

Matt
09-06-2008, 06:10 PM
I learnt so much about the new IK features from that one video! Awesome!

Ztreem
09-08-2008, 11:52 AM
Weight mapping in lw is really too time consuming, I hope NT tackles a better solution right away.

You mean like this, but in viewport and support for SDS and easier.

Castius
09-08-2008, 12:18 PM
I love vertex paint. But most people have an issue with it because it doesn't support sub-d. So that can be a small problem. In LW i usually just use weights to split bone influences then to weight vertexes 100%. It really is LWs strength and it's best to utilize it.

Trying to create muscle morphs is usually the bigger problem these days. 9.5.1 is looking to help with that problem a great deal in a different way.

As far as spines go. That really depends on the animator and the character. If I need a very flexible spine in LW i would probable build it like this one. If i find time I'll try to make a script to replicate it. I can also add a pole vector to this as well now.

http://www.steelronin.com/temp/spin_rig.mov

I'm looking forward to some of the user created rigs that will come from 9.5. There is a lot more power there. As well as scripting to utilize it. So we should see a lot of tools coming from users and third party devs eventual.

jasonwestmas
09-08-2008, 12:25 PM
You mean like this, but in viewport and support for SDS and easier.

Yep! I've used it but there are too many weird things going on with that plugin. You got that to work in layout? I couldn't figure it out.

Ztreem
09-08-2008, 12:53 PM
Yes, vertexpaint works in layout.

Giacomo99
09-08-2008, 04:38 PM
Yes, vertexpaint works in layout.

Only not on a Mac, last time I checked.

geothefaust
09-08-2008, 09:16 PM
As far as spines go. That really depends on the animator and the character. If I need a very flexible spine in LW i would probable build it like this one. If i find time I'll try to make a script to replicate it. I can also add a pole vector to this as well now.


That would be really cool! I'd surely use it if it was made. :)