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CB_3D
07-30-2003, 11:45 AM
sigh..

unfortunately i donīt like the rigs too much. But i think this is nice news to some. Good marketing move, though!
:)

Dick Ma
07-30-2003, 11:55 AM
I concern one thing in Layout after looking the setup machine - the multiple undo functions in LW8.

I think it is not related to the setup machine plugins but if I run other plugins that automatically runs a lot of scripts, what happens to the undo functions?! One step backward of the scripts, or back to the normal status b4 running the plugin?

I think LW 8 need something like undo history....for us to click on.

CB_3D
07-30-2003, 11:58 AM
Oh no. The thread continues.

AAAAARRRGH!

shermanlu
07-30-2003, 12:04 PM
I just saw TSM showed on LW7.5...so...can it associate with the new IK/FK Rigging things???

DaveW
07-30-2003, 12:08 PM
I haven't had a good look at the rigs TSM creates, but in the demo they looked a hell of a lot faster than the default ACS4 rig. That rig pretty much blows, it's like they tried to do everything posible to make the rig as slow as possible. The nice thing about ACS4 though is you can make custom rigs for it, I assume TSM allows you to do that too.

discode
07-30-2003, 12:15 PM
I guess i dont understand. Why would you need The Setup Machine with all of the new stuff in LW8 for CA. Can anyone enlighten me.

Doug Nicola
07-30-2003, 12:16 PM
I would assume that just like Ortho, this is going to be TSM on steroids when 8 is released.

Dodgy
07-30-2003, 12:27 PM
Putting TSM in LW just gives you another option. These preset rigs are okay, but I always prefer a simple clean rig, and LW's char tools will allow me to set those up. If you aren't sure about rigging the presets can be usefull, if only to learn a new technique from.

discode
07-30-2003, 12:30 PM
Thanks Doug and Dodgy. That helps clarify things for me a bit.

Carnera
07-30-2003, 12:31 PM
i saw the tsm presentation ....

whats really strange is that j.p. was talking about ik/fk blending.
maybe i didnt saw it, coz the stream was really slow more like a slideshow. but when he switched fk to ik the arm was moving back ....reaching the goal object. so whats the benefit of that feature?
i think the goal for the ik should automatically follow the hand so that when switching fk to ik the hand stays at the keyed fk position...otherwise its useless. or do i have to manually animate the goal object to the exact position at the key where i want to switch fk to ik?


Bye Andras
MBA Studios (http://www.mba-studios.de)
Carnera3D-Seminars (http://www.carnera3d-seminars.de)

Psyhke
07-30-2003, 12:35 PM
So can anyone clarify... it seem you are saying that TSM will be included as part of LW8. Is that correct? Will it be integrated, or just included a la SasLite?

Earl
07-30-2003, 01:07 PM
They spoke of it as though it were integrated.

"Wait, you mean to tell me LightWave 8 has auto character rigging?" - Well, they said something very similar to this during the broadcast. The way they worded it made it sound integrated, but who knows. Could just be the full plugin (on steroids).

Psyhke
07-30-2003, 01:32 PM
Okay, thank you.

robinson
07-30-2003, 02:02 PM
Where did they mention that The Setup Machine is included in Lightwave 8 ? They just showed the Setup machine on Lightwave that’s all. But sure would be great !!!
Damn just bought ACS4 a few month ago, hope there is a ACS5 version soon.

Hope ACS4 is still use full in Lightwave 8 !

rabid pitbull
07-30-2003, 02:07 PM
i knew this would happen when i heard Raf was at the LW party.....

I used the demo of tsm and it really sucked. Especially when compared to acs4. No where near as much control. And where is Raf when people asked question here and at CG talk?? Who knows never answered many questions. Of Course Lukasz (acs creator) is always around answering questions. Why you say? Well he is devoted to LW unlike Raf...

one more thing on a growing list of displeasures with the upcoming newtek offering.

pablosbrain
07-30-2003, 02:29 PM
setup machine is not included.. they just did a demo of it. Saw the demo through the live stream. not bad but as someone else already asked... whats the real value in it with all the new character tools in 8?

Earl
07-30-2003, 02:59 PM
Was it just a demo? That's not how it sounded... but then, with the stream audio, you never know if a chunk is cut out. :rolleyes:

pablosbrain
07-30-2003, 03:00 PM
Yeah.. it was just a demo... a good demo.. but still I don't think it would be that usefull with lightwave 8 around the corner... but maybe if a project requires something before 8 is out.

hrgiger
07-30-2003, 03:13 PM
It's good to see another rumor thread out of control again.:rolleyes:

Perhaps Irene King's phone number will be our new license code too?

VirtualFM
07-30-2003, 04:10 PM
Well, they talk about some Auto Character Setup in the features... But if something is to be integrated I would prefer 1000 times the ACS than the SetupMachine. From the demos I saw and tested, the Setup Machine was slow as hell and the ACS was much better in almost everything.

So, I hope it's something different or ACS...

Dodgy
07-30-2003, 04:17 PM
To be honest I wouldn't see the need for TSM when you have ACS included. ACS is completely configurable, whereas I think TSM isn't (As far as I know, anyone who owns it care to comment?)

We know ACS is being included (from NT), are we as sure TSM is being included?

Psyhke
07-30-2003, 04:28 PM
Hmm. I don't think Newek has stated ACS as in ACS4 is being put into LW8. They have just said their will be an auto character setup capability, and they also happned to capitalize it, which is why people think they meant ACS4. Maybe they did mean that, I'm not sure. Anyone from Netwek that can clarify that?

jb_gfx
07-30-2003, 05:02 PM
I don't see why Newtek would includes ACS4 then make a demo of TSM that would be totally out of sense.

They didn't make a special annonce for Shave when they included SasLite...

pablosbrain
07-30-2003, 06:05 PM
The only auto rigging thing in LW8 is the new easy way to add IK and IK stops to rigs. Its very simple... Even though I own ACS4 I think I might not need it as much anymore... but we'll see when it finally gets released.

CB_3D
07-30-2003, 07:08 PM
been seeing more stuff from William.
From what i understand now the ACS and Setupmachine are really pointless in 8. That is, if the new bones he showed of (with embedded IK goal) are fully integrated. They have to work with expressions, there canīt be no After IK doubts anymore etc etc.


Hopefully itīs as tightly integrated as bones now, and not a crammed in motion plugin.

Dodgy
07-31-2003, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by CB_3D
been seeing more stuff from William.
That is, if the new bones he showed of (with embedded IK goal) are fully integrated. They have to work with expressions, there canīt be no After IK doubts anymore etc etc.


Now that IS great news :)

sketchyjay
07-31-2003, 06:43 AM
Well the whole point of the rigs is to make them easy to use and to setup control bones that make selecting bones easy.

Now the new rigging demoed means that both setups can drop half the bones because they don't need to fake ik/fk blending anymore.

You can just click a bone and use it so by locking a few bones we can quickly grab what we need and animate. That removes the need for even more nulls and bones although you may still want null objects for the hands and feet?

In the end both are going to need major overhauls to work with 8 because half the rig will no longer be needed. I guess time will tell.

j

WilliamVaughan
07-31-2003, 08:41 AM
The Steup machine is a great tool...but it will not be in LightWave 8.....

JP Wilson and Raf are great guys that do amazing things with LW.....I'm very excited that they were on our main stage and will be again today!

CB_3D
07-31-2003, 09:26 AM
:D

Hi Proton! So, are they integrated or a motion plugin? The new IK/FK bones, i mean.

:rolleyes:

policarpo
07-31-2003, 09:30 AM
integrated.

CB_3D
07-31-2003, 09:35 AM
:)

Earl
07-31-2003, 10:27 AM
Thanks Proton (for clearing that up)! Man, I must have just seen it and thought it was so cool that I convinced myself that it was integrated! Ahh well, as many people here have said, with the great character animation enhancements, an Auto-Setup probably isn't as needed. :cool:

shermanlu
07-31-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Earl
Thanks Proton (for clearing that up)! Man, I must have just seen it and thought it was so cool that I convinced myself that it was integrated! Ahh well, as many people here have said, with the great character animation enhancements, an Auto-Setup probably isn't as needed. :cool:

yah... i agree...but more options is always welcome.....

jpwilson
08-07-2003, 09:08 PM
Hi Folks,

This is J.p. Wilson, the programmer for The Setup Machine for Lightwave.

There have been lots of topics that I have just caught up on and would like to respond to.

We are now putting together a new version of The Setup Machine for Lightwave to include the new rigging tools provided with Lightwave 8. Our goal is to create new and more powerful animation tools that will be native to Lightwave 8.

The FK/IK blending is indeed that, blending. The switch is done using a slider, and the geometery bones will blend between the location of the FK and IK controls. The controls are seperate, you must place them individually, so that your IK goal isn't moved around when you want to reposition the FK controls.

The speed of the 7.5 rig has been commented on by several people. Almost every computer I have run the plugin on will update in realtime, except for my old 333 Celeron. :-) Performance will obviously vary from machine to machine, however if you are on a newer computer and are still having troubles, please feel free to contact me. [email protected]

I am always open to suggestions and comments, if anyone would like to put their two cents in while we are in development of the new version, again, please feel free.

Thank you,
-J.p. Wilson

shermanlu
08-07-2003, 10:14 PM
Thanks J.p.
It's really great to know it will be an "Advanced version" of TSM that you've put in LW8, not just a "Lite"....
Blending.... you're so cool man.....Thanks again:D

pixelmonk
08-08-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by CB_3D
Oh no. The thread continues.

AAAAARRRGH!

you started it.

CB_3D
08-08-2003, 04:52 PM
Lol, actually i was referring to the Undo complaint. Injoke...

takkun
08-08-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by shermanlu
Thanks J.p.
It's really great to know it will be an "Advanced version" of TSM that you've put in LW8, not just a "Lite"....
Blending.... you're so cool man.....Thanks again:D I think you misunderstood, Proton said that LW8 is NOT going to come with TSM included. I was impressed by the siggraph demo, I love the finger controls, very cool. :)

jpwilson
08-08-2003, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by takkun
I think you misunderstood, Proton said that LW8 is NOT going to come with TSM included. I was impressed by the siggraph demo, I love the finger controls, very cool. :)


Thanks for the comment. It is things like the finger controls that The Setup Machine was really meant for. It is the creation of functional and time saving controls, as well as the actual time saved with system installation that we were aiming to achieve with TSM.

To clarify, The Setup Machine will _not_ be included as part of Lightwave 8, however we are producing a new version to take advantage of the new tools in LW8.

Thanks again,
-J.p.

WilliamVaughan
08-11-2003, 07:19 AM
Looking forward to see hwt ayou guys come up with JP.....keep creating these killer tools and we will keep using them :)

jds580s
08-11-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Psyhke
Hmm. I don't think Newek has stated ACS as in ACS4 is being put into LW8. They have just said their will be an auto character setup capability, and they also happned to capitalize it, which is why people think they meant ACS4. Maybe they did mean that, I'm not sure. Anyone from Netwek that can clarify that?

Prior to getting ACS4 I asked Lukasz if I would be disappointed when 8 came out just to find my new $100 plugin bundled with the upgrade and he responded:


hehe, what I can tell You is if anything would be going to happen to ACS4 I would put a statement on site or take the plugin off the market.

--
Greetings,
Lukasz

Just thought I would pass the info along.

Justin