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View Full Version : Needed - 2 persion 4x3 live set



dbakerstl
08-08-2008, 04:55 PM
Just wondering if anyone has modified any of the stock live sets for 2 people, with an effect surface. I am looking to place to people in a set, but currently it is not really possible unless you scale the people down, but then it just doesnt look correct. I have seen some postings on 16x9 sets, but our entire environment is 4x3, and will be for some time :)

Any suggestions?

thovn
08-10-2008, 08:51 PM
I think you rely on transparent image for guidance.
1. For 1 people, on set already have this image :

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7576/center4x3palalphatf8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

2. For 2 people, you make this image for guidance :

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2903/2ppzs2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and notice at redline, you must scale up "VideoInput-4x3-Seated" and move it down for redline at top table surface, like this image :

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8294/insceneqi2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

3. Finally, you need fix your camera same as the 2 people transparent image for center camera, on left and right camera you make some tricks on "VideoInput-4x3-Seated"

joseburgos
08-11-2008, 05:52 AM
Problem with that setup is close ups.
The scaling of one actor is not very good compared to a close up using keyhole which has no scaling.
I mean it will work but you will not like individual actor close ups.

Take care,

joseburgos
08-11-2008, 07:02 AM
Also if you really went this way, change your camera framing to have the two actors as close as possible (not far away as in the example Thovn posted).
Now in LW, split the input video polygon and move the two pieces to the desired set location.
This will allow for a med single actor shot with less scaling than when they are framed far apart.
This would also allow you to place the two actors far apart on the set and give the illusion of a large space.

Pay attention to surface mapping when you split the polygon to create two separate input video planes.

I want to add that this is only for wide and maybe med shots as close ups will not look good on individual actors due to heavy scaling of the LiveSet surface.
This is why keyhole is the preferred method of a close up.

Take care,

thovn
08-11-2008, 08:52 PM
Thx Jose, you remind me the way i've done with a few TV in liveset play difference source film, i wish Tricaster support higher resolution for the source film input in order to make better FX and Live video with scale in surface.

With the closeup for single actor, i think we scale down the input video polygon as normal and rotate it, keyhole with camera and make a key at that camera ( left and right camera for single actor) with this way you need 3 camera in studio, 1 center, 1 left and 1 right, left and right focus on single actor.

@Jose : could i ask you a question, when we chose keyhole on Plugin Liveset render, it auto make focal of camera fix with input video polygon?

joseburgos
08-12-2008, 05:57 AM
Keyhole passes the video feed into the area surfaced with the LS texture.
So no scaling or rotation is recognized from the LW scene if Keyhole is enabled.
If you rotate the video plane 45 degrees on the Y, then what you did is reduce the area video will pass through from the feed when Keyhole is enabled.

So if you have two actors in live camera feed into the LS, when the set has keyhole enabled, whatever surface has keyhole enabled, that is what will show on the LS.
That is why the close up shots have the video plane full screen.

Hope that explains Keyhole.

The way I do two actor liveset is to have two center cameras.
One on left actor and other on right actor with both framed using the single actor alignment LS.
Then I map Input to one video plane and preview to the other video plane and FX to the set monitor (if two separate monitors then 2ND I map DSK).
Then I setup the whole set in the switcher and use the LS shot chooser to change from shot to shot because I am using the preview for one of the feeds.
If the client wants a right or left side, then two more video cameras are needed if they want close ups on those shots otherwise, one camera in wide (as your example shows) framing both actors and only med wide and wide shots for the other set angles.

Now this is tricky to switch but you get used to it once you understand not to touch the main and preview bus of the switcher.
For fading to black I use the DSK with DSK being not used in the set.
Need to do this since the main and preview can not be touched.
You can also fade the DSK in using a DDR with CUE enabled as well.

Anyway, a lot of work but you end up with a great set that allows close ups of the actors with no scaling :)

For three actors I map Input, Preview and DSK with FX for set monitor.
I loose the fade to black and have yet to figure out how to do that live so this set is limited to recording the production and editing in post all breaks.

Take care,

dbakerstl
08-13-2008, 04:42 PM
Hrmm well that looks cool - I would love to see it in action - can you send it to me :) you can watermark it if you like. I just want to see whats possible as far as 2 talent live sets...

joseburgos
08-14-2008, 05:33 AM
Here is a demo of center med shot.
Left side is main bus, right is preview and monitor is FX.
For some reason I am getting a flashing grey where the green screen is on the preview video plane.
The type of stuff I used to get on my old system.
Strange that I am getting this on my newer quad system :confused:

I will finish this test set later today to add a wide, left and right close up totalling four center shots.

Take care,

joseburgos
08-14-2008, 08:38 AM
I re-mapped the two video planes to main and dsk.
Only way I could remove the livematte error.
Here is the link for the demo set (crude but works).
Center:Wide, Med, Left and Right actor.
FX is mapped to monitor.
No actor icons, just quick demo.
Left and right is with keyhole.
Wide and med is scaled with liveset.

http://www.burgos-family.com/liveset/Two%20Man%20Set%20Demo.zip

Take care,

joseburgos
08-14-2008, 05:05 PM
I forgot to add the video monitor in the wide shot so re-download the file if you downloaded it earlier today now with video monitor in the wide shot :)

Take care,

thovn
08-14-2008, 10:15 PM
Thx Jose, i have some questions:
1. What type of Tricaster you use?
I have Tricaster Studio and Tricaster Pro FX, in Studio it have VCR1,VCR2 don't have DDR, in ProFX it have DDR don't have VCR1,VCR2
2. In this sentence

Then I map Input to one video plane and preview to the other video plane and FX to the set monitor (if two separate monitors then 2ND I map DSK).
I don't know words "preview", "DSK" ; the "preview" have in liveset generator for LW like Input and FX surface?
3. Do you use Aura for your set? because i don't have liveset generator for aura (althought i have box Upgrade VT[5] so i have aura included in CD but i can't upgrade my account to have liveset generator for aura plugin, i have Serial number on CD label but i don't know where i can fine Product ID, on box don't have that ID)
4. When i test your liveset in ProFX, i see the second actor ( right actor) you use Overlay channel to map it, in ProFX Overlay channel can't have video in, it only support image, how you can map that plane for ProFX know that use for Overlay channel?(because with LW Liveset plugin, only have 2 surface for Tricaster know, that is Input and FX)

I've tested to make set with 2 actors, it need 2 camera 1 center and 1 for side (left or right), so need to pan camera between side when active live in center camera, and i change the liveset left and right on preview channel then switch it with Live channel.

Your ways are good for many person and FX without scale, maybe i should read Tricaster manual :D , thx again

joseburgos
08-15-2008, 05:20 AM
I have VT[5] (no Tricaster) so I do not know other interface.

To create a set that requires more than two video feeds, I use LW to create render layers and Aura to compile the LS.

If you have a camera man to pan camera, great but my method was for locked down cameras.

Take care,

joseburgos
08-15-2008, 02:36 PM
Well big problem in my demo set as I did not know you can not select a camera via the DSK :(
Now replacing the DSK for Preview brings up a technical problem with LS as it leaks the FX bus where the livematte keys out for the preview channel :(

But it gets worse, even if the technical problem was not there, I can't change shots because I changed what is on the preview bus to feed the 2ND actor and the preview bus is where you change the shot :(

So more thought has to go into this as I feel the concept is solid.

joseburgos
08-15-2008, 02:37 PM
If you want to play with the Preview mapped set, get it here;
http://www.burgos-family.com/liveset/Two%20Man%20Set%20Demo2.zip

joseburgos
08-15-2008, 03:03 PM
Oh OK, I figured out how to switch using Preview as a feed, you enable the same LS on both feeds when you set up the LS.
So now I need to figure out why the FX channel leak through the Preview livematte.

sbrandt
08-24-2008, 09:59 PM
I'm kind of on the fly tonight.
Don't have time to read through everything.
I'm not clear whether you have a finished set or not.
If, or when you do, how much will it be?
The big gripe about this system so far is the great looking but limited sets.
This would be a huge help.

joseburgos
08-25-2008, 06:45 AM
This set is a work in progress since I am using the inputs in ways they were not used before.
When the bugs are worked out, then I will concentrate on an actual set to use this theory of mine.

Stay tuned,