PDA

View Full Version : ok... but will there be ANY improvements to MODELER in LW8?



jin choung
07-29-2003, 04:31 PM
howdy fellows,

well, i keep hearing that there's not gonna be "that many changes" to modeler but what i want to know is if there will be ANY?

as for the argument that modeler does not need that many changes because there are third party tools to address such issues... hell, you can say that for most of the new features in layout.

as i've said before, dynamics hard/soft have always been the purview of third party plugins.

character animation and setup is rightfully a 'core' concept and it's good to see that it is getting a face lift.

as for modeler, there are NUMEROUS CORE ISSUES that need revision!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. we need EDGES:

2. because we need to remove phong smoothing from a surface property to an EDGE BY EDGE attribute! far more intuitive to work with (even though lw's style more closely emulates what is happening inside render engines).

3. also because we need to be able to adjust SHARPNESS/ROUNDNESS of SDS on an edge by edge and NOT vert by vert basis. sure, it's good to have vert weighting but ultimately, they are not that useful.

4. because of point 3, we will probably need EDGE MAPS in addition to VMAPS and hell, we probably could use POLY MAPS too so it would behoove us to get that as well (for such things as FACE weighting for SDS).

5. also because of point 3, SDS in lw is not yet finished. it used to be that we can claim that we are the premiere SDS modeler on the market. but it is no longer so. another sore point that argues that SDS in lw is not yet complete is:

6. inability to reliably UV MAP SDS surfaces without distortion. as many of you know, jdaniels does indeed provide a solution but it is an elaborate (albeit brilliant) workaround that should not be necessary. if we're serious about our ONLY higher order surface, we need to FINISH THIS SUCKER OFF and make it as completely robust a modeling option as polys is! as yet, i would still argue that SDS still has too many remnants from the 5.6c days where it was strictly a MODELING TOOL. that philosophy still emanates.

7. we could use UVs as another entity (like verts, polys, edges) so that we do not have to unweld and reweld all the time! it was a nice idea that because they are verts, we can use all the same tools in the uv view as we can in the 3d views.... but alas, this is not true so we should just go ahead and break uvs into their own group and give them their own tools.

8. more robust, functional, sensible GIZMOS in the modeling windows. the lw TEXTURE GUIDE is a buggy, ugly abomination.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as i have said, i do believe that i make a very consistent distinction between issues that are PERIPHERAL and issues that are CORE. all, ALL, of the above are CORE modeler issues that need to be addressed yesterday.

if you can say that there isn't that much change needed in modeler, you guys are SORELY mistaken.

there is SIGNIFICANT changes needed in modeler and they all need to happen at a very FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL.

jin

Limbus
07-29-2003, 04:45 PM
I totally agree!

I hope these issues are adressed in 8.x.

Florian

hrgiger
07-29-2003, 04:57 PM
While I can say that we definately need edges, I don't mind not having significant modeler changes in the initial 8 release. I struggle a lot more with character animation issues then modeling issues so I'm glad to see a lot of those things being addressed in 8. I'm hoping to see edges though well before 9, hopefully in a point release before then...

Cman
07-29-2003, 05:03 PM
Yeah.
It looks like Newtek has a REAL development team for Lightwave now. :)
Well before LW9 I bet we see major Modeler improvements.

Adrian Lopez
07-29-2003, 05:30 PM
Indeed. While I'm very excited about the improved animation tools in Lightwave 8 I'd still like to see some improvements to Modeler before I put up the dough for the upgrade. To me there are three issues that must be addressed in Lightwave 8's Modeler:

- Better UV tools: No need to unweld / reweld to obtain discontinuous / continuous UVs, and no distortion on SDS UV mapping.

- More viewport rendering styles: I'd like to see texture layers blended together as well as a textured wireframe mode. Ideally I'd also like the ability to write my own viewport renderer plugins.

- Complete access to any new object/scene parameters via the Lightwave SDK.

I don't think I'll upgrade unless these issues are addressed in Lightwave 8.X.

I'm concerned about Modeler's future. I hope Newtek hasn't signed away their right to make significant changes to Modeler.

shermanlu
07-29-2003, 05:51 PM
Proton just say in the show...LW8 doesn't finish all of the evolvements....it's only Layout so far...not much to show on modeler...
hope NT heard our requests regarding Modeler...i need every thing Jin said too...

discode
07-29-2003, 06:58 PM
I have to agree with Adrian and Jin. I cannot see shelling out the 495 bucks for the upgrade unless there are SOME improvements such as the ones previously mentioned. However saying that, i do appreciate all of the new tools for CA and dynamics. For me its mainly that i am a just a modeler (at least that is what i love to do in 3d primarily). Being a student i cannot justify dropping the cash that i dont have on a upgrade yet without some improvements to Modeler. NT i hope you are listening in this area. Judging by the stream today you are.....

milkman
07-29-2003, 07:28 PM
I believe Newtek will make modeler changes in the 8.x point releases.

Doug Nicola
07-29-2003, 07:46 PM
According to a post by Lee a few days ago, NT owns the code for everything in LW and can do whatever they want with it. "No copyright issues whatsoever" was the emphasis.

So it sounds like just a matter of time (a short time, I would think) before modeler gets the needed boosts.

Psyhke
07-29-2003, 08:49 PM
Long live LW Modeler! :) Don't let Modo break you! Try to improve now more than ever.

Rory_L
07-29-2003, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by milkman
I believe Newtek will make modeler changes in the 8.x point releases.

It`s a fact. They already said they would!!! They said they wanted to get the new Layout goodies out to us now, rather than hoard them till the Modeler improvements were ready. Beef if you like, but it smells a little like gift horse dentistry to me!:D

Now, is it only me, or does anyone else share my belief that modelling and animating are inseperable twins? I can`t imagine making any model without having it sitting in a test scene in Layout, if only to get a clear view of how its rendering. Any model that I plan to animate has to be test animated throughout the modelling phase to ensure clean, efficient deformations.

That aside, the likes of hair and clothing can be easily `modelled` in layout with bones, displacement maps and MD.

My point is that the guys who say they`re exclusively modellers might find Layout to be a good friend if they ceased to see it only as an animation environment.

`Scuse me, everyone for the Teaching-Granny-to-Suck-Eggs tone: i`ll shut up now! :)

R

DraZtiK
07-29-2003, 09:24 PM
I would also like to jump on the wagon here to agree with the post's mentioned above and add some of my own...

I was under the impression there was going to be better support for game developing or is this animation only?

1. Better support for texturing objects.
Right now its extremely difficult to uv map objects compared to other modeling apps..Of course UV Edit Pro does help but both want to constrain the model's uv's, but working with seamless textures thats not necessary.

2. Vertex Colors.
I have yet to be able to vertex paint an object and import it into a level and it actually work.(example: latest unreal engine)

3. Adding/manipulating/deleting edges.
Yes I know about edge tools...but can't it be somewhat easier to create an edge like max's cut tool.

I'm assuming game dev's are a fairly big target in the modeling world and most of them will use the modeling end of LW much more than animation as do I so lets not leave out the little guys.:(

These are some of my peeve's and I'm sure NT has heard of much more so don't forget us.

robertn2k
07-29-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by discode
Being a student i cannot justify dropping the cash that i dont have on a upgrade yet without some improvements to Modeler.

Well..being a student the upgrade price for you will be slighly more than half the regular upgrade price if Newtek stays true to form....not that $295.00 is anything to sneeze at.

andrenozawa
07-30-2003, 01:36 AM
I think Newtek could at least put some sign on their booth saying:
"Modeler improvements: >>>>>Softimage
Alias<<<<<<

:D

hrgiger
07-30-2003, 01:39 AM
Or you could make it simpler and just put a sign up that says
<<<<<<< Overpriced software >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Original1
07-30-2003, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by hrgiger
Or you could make it simpler and just put a sign up that says
<<<<<<< Overpriced software >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Dont forget that $495 included a copy of DFX+, if you buy in advance.

If you think Newtek is overpriced buy MAX 5 then pay for the point upgrades

hrgiger
07-30-2003, 01:53 AM
Hey Original1, did you not understand the post? andrenozawa said for modeler improvements, Newtek should post a sign that points the way towards the Maya and XSI booths. I suggested that instead, they should just post a sign pointing either way towards either booth and have it say overpriced software. I wasn't saying LW was overpriced.

colkai
07-30-2003, 02:23 AM
hrgiger
S'okay man, I got it ;)

I think it is only a matter of 8.?? before modeller gets a nip and tuck. :p

So the upgrade is only $295 ?? I thought it was still out at $495 - academic really as I've already pre-ordered the DFX+ deal :D

Anyhoo, waiting till tonight for some more streaming (God my wife is mad at me - I think it's gonna be flowers and chocolates time by Friday) :D :D :D

andrenozawa
07-30-2003, 02:47 AM
Sorry guys,I was joking...
LW rocks,we all know that.I don`t understand anything about business administration but we should not expect Newtek doing any miracles.Avid and Alias are much bigger companies and there are much more money envolved which means more programmers...
Let just spend more time with our current tools .

mav3rick
07-30-2003, 03:25 AM
i want more LAYOUT STuFF like update to hv3 also

sailor
07-30-2003, 03:41 AM
If you compare features lists there are maybe some stuff that is overpriced here and there but believe me that the list of functionalities between XSI and Maya and LW is VERY long...is not just a couple of featurettes nor training material... it is a HUGE gap in certain domain that alone justifies a price difference....in this price comparison i now think that features/price ratio in Maya is just awesome....it is a bargain actually just a few bucks from LW they have LOTS of additional stuff even with the "complete" version...the real question is if YOU need those features in wich case it is a totatlly different answer.

If you DONT use NUrbs

Nor History

Nor hierarchical subdivisions

Nor Mental Ray

Nor Dynamics

Nor a shading tree

Nor other things in there...

then you shouldnt buy Maya that is simple :)

But half of this feature alone justifies the gap between Maya and LW if LW 8 came with this improvements be sure that i will be ready to pay twice the upgrade price...easily

discode
07-30-2003, 05:13 AM
Well..being a student the upgrade price for you will be slighly more than half the regular upgrade price if Newtek stays true to form....not that $295.00 is anything to sneeze at.

I would be more inclined to purchase the upgrade if it were only $295 BUT i do have a commercial liscence that i would like to keep. In other words my liscence is not an educational one hence the more expensive upgrade. You are right though $295 is still nothing to sneeze at too. :D


I dont know if it has been mentioned in this thread or not but i would really like to see n-gon subd support added to modeler's functionality as well. To me its not nearly as important as edges but it would be extremely usefull.

Alex Rooth
07-30-2003, 05:15 AM
The one thing I would like to see in Modeler would be Jin's point number 3 regarding having control over the sharpness of edges on a subdivided model.

I think just about everything (i.e non organic as well as organic) looks better modelled using subdivision surfaces because of the quality of the edge. Currently, the only way I know to get the edge looking like I want it is to use the bandsaw or knife. This is pretty clumsy really because it adds a massive amount of geometry to the model, which then makes the model unwieldy, slows down rendering times, etc. Not only that, but a whole load of unnecessary extra time is spent on the modelling process.

I hope Newtek can do something to improve on this. I do love Modeler and feel that it is possible to model anything with it, whether organic or inorganic, big or small, complex or simple, etc. - but I would like to be able to do so faster.

I am happy to post examples of models that I have done to illustrate what I mean.

For Newtek people reading this, I have enjoyed the live stream and the changes to Layout look really great and something to get excited about. Regarding the live stream, thanks for putting that on - it's great for those of us who can't make it.

Best regards

Alex Rooth

TyVole
07-30-2003, 05:15 AM
It seems that they have at least caught up to Maya in regards to Dynamics -- they may have even exceeded them.

colkai
07-30-2003, 05:22 AM
Yeah,
Twice the upgrade price - that would count me out :(

One BIG reason I use LW, bang-for-buck!
Sure MAYA / XSI have neato things - but on my salary, with a house and a family - I cannot afford that sort of cash.

Lightwave may not be the big kid on the block, but he sure is easier to talk to. As soon as you start wanting the best of everything, you get into paying the price for that.

Let's say Newtek agree, Lightwave suddenly has a 'maintenance' cost as well as an upgrade price costing 900+ I can see many people either dropping it or not upgrading ever again.

Then what - if LW didn't have the feature someone wanted - the argument would be "for this price, I want everything I can dream of - now!" -
..Oh, wait a minute...that's already happening! ;)

S'funny, you never hear of folks demanding the same with so much ferocity for other software packages? Why is that?

Anyhoo, I've said it countless times, if ya don't like it, don't buy it. If Maya is sooo good, buy that, or MAX or XSI

Then if they don't live up to your expectations, what do you do, threaten to move to LW if they don't? <shrugs>

I guess I'm just learning to accept things as I get older, I pay for something, I get a decent deal - job done. Don't expect Ferarri performance when I buy a family saloon - ya know?

I *still* think cool things are ahead for modeller - they have stated that *now* they have not done anything, but have hinted on more than one occasion that doesn't mean it WON'T get a makeover.

j3st3r
07-30-2003, 06:24 AM
if you like your car, you don`t think on buying a new car, but you will try to do your best to improve your car. That`s thge same for Lightwave. I think we all love Lightwave, and we like to see it as improved as it can be.

I like to think that LW is a professional tool. But until it doesn`t have the professional features others have, many studio won`t think of LW as a professional tool. So evolution is REQUIRED and I tell you again, that we are not against LW but for it.

sailor
07-30-2003, 06:41 AM
i just wanted to add to Jester post,

the more LW is considered "professional" the more the freelancers will be able to join multiapps studios...and if this is possible then the price argument is then irrelevant since it is the Studio paying for the soft not you...this way you can both work doing everything from modeling to compositing or just joining a team and do whatvever your speciality is...here in Paris the LW market is pretty small...as long as they dont integrated some standard workflow that you can find in any other apps it will become harder and harder to keep thinking of LW as a professional tool for the freelancer (i mean the freelancer the modler that is hired for a specific production etc...)

sailor
07-30-2003, 06:47 AM
"I guess I'm just learning to accept things as I get older, I pay for something, I get a decent deal - job done. Don't expect Ferarri performance when I buy a family saloon - ya know? "


i agree with you...in this case lets face reality and stop thinking of LW as a "High end" application or a Ferrari....NT must make a clear choice...do they want to make it competitive or just a hobbysit application...they have surfed in the boundaries of both world until now...maybe they will be able to keep doing this (who knows) but i doubt when i see Max 6, standardized Mental Ray superfast developpemnt cycle form Avid and Alias and now Modo coming out...its gonna be tough

colkai
07-30-2003, 07:54 AM
I think that is maybe where the problem lies.

High-end is a tough definition. In a way, for the position it is in / it's lineage, Lightwave, if anything, is too good.

Consequently, it is somehow seen in direct competition to the Likes of XSI and Maya. Regardless of the recent price-drops, historically, LW has always been around its current price, give or take 500.

Now the others have dropped their price, it is seen as falling behind, yet, one could argue, the opposite was true.

If Maya had not dropped their price, would people still feel aggrieved at the feature set of LW in comparison? I can't say.

I think the fact that it is sneaking, not so stealthily, into places which used to be just one-product houses means it is now playing with the big boys.

Cinema 4D and such have slowly crept up in price, yet they are not seen as serious competitors (rightly or wrongly) to the likes of Max & Maya.

I dunno, it's a tough call, maybe now everything is sorted and there are new people at Newtek, they can forge ahead with a purer vision <shrugs>

It's all very Russian! ;)

(Guess who saw "Red Heat" last week :D)

Dodgy
07-30-2003, 08:58 AM
Wanting to improve is great yeah fantastic, wonderful. Going on and on and ON and on about about how your engine only has 2 cylinders and not 3, when yours is fuel injected and the other engine isn't, is pointless and negative. Make a request for another cylinder and get on with your life. Don't think your engine is just going to collapse and die.

It's like the stockmarket. A company's doing okay, but doesn't perform as expected, people start to worry. People say the company is doing poorly, and other buy less shares in that company because of it. Pretty soon the share price falls, and the company IS doing badly. This effect is showing up a lot more right at this very moment...

If you keep moaning that lightwave is poor, people will think it's poor, (when it IS VERY competitive, look at all the great work being done on it out there!) and won't buy it.. Result NT go out of business, and we all have to buy a new package, when most of us are very happy with it, it was just a vocal few who kept going on and on, instead of moving to maya and being much happier there...

I'm not saying stop asking for improvements, but you only need one line 'Can you please put this in', and don't KEEP asking if NT is going to go out of business. NT will get to it when they're finished improving something else. So either have patience and wait or buy another package. I am more than happy with what they've put in (sorting out unwelding of uv's would have been nice, but I'll wait) so I'm going to stick with LW.

prospector
07-30-2003, 10:05 AM
1000% correct Dodgy

having been with LW since, well pretty much the beginning,
and seen all the movies, TV shows, commercials,and print ads done with LW, it is beyond my comprehension to see where LW can't compete with the so called 'big boys', I have yet to see ANYTHING done with another program that can't be done in LW in some way or another, maby some workflows are different, but the final product can be done in LW if someone really wants to do it.

Even the Mummy sand cloud can be done in LW right out of the box.

And LW doesn't need banks and banks of programmers to get the program to work in the studio.

Stranahan
07-30-2003, 10:10 AM
I didn't read all the posts here, so forgive me if this is redundant.

I said, days before the SIGGRAPH opened, that we wouldn't be able to annouce much of anything at SIGGRAPH and I explained why.

You'll be seeing Modeler announcements from NewTek in the coming weeks as we get closer to shipping. You'll also see other annoucements related to LightWave[8].

SIGGRAPH is an unveiling, not the end of annoucements.

Gui Lo
07-30-2003, 11:18 AM
I bought LW mainly because it was the first 'professional' piece of software I could afford. I was still at college and used Quark, illustrator, etc and I knew I could not afford them. So here was a piece of software running on hardware I already had, and people had produced a string of superb quality visuals using it.

The thing is, nothing has changed!

Every nominee for the Emmys use Lightwave and more movie projects are stating they use Lightwave too.

Can't wait to hear about the modeler enhancements.

Gui Lo

CB_3D
07-30-2003, 12:15 PM
While demonstrating the Endomorphs they jumped to Modeler.

Still there as it seems.

Pheeeew:D

DeadMan
07-30-2003, 12:53 PM
"If you keep moaning that lightwave is poor, people will think it's poor, (when it IS VERY competitive, look at all the great work being done on it out there!) and won't buy it.. Result NT go out of business, and we all have to buy a new package, when most of us are very happy with it, it was just a vocal few who kept going on and on, instead of moving to maya and being much happier there..."

Ppl. are moaning because, in reality, LightWave is far behind the competition, and it's falling more behind all the time. Also, Maya is now only a few hundred dollars more, and it offers so much more than LightWave out of the box.

DeadMan
07-30-2003, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by TyVole
It seems that they have at least caught up to Maya in regards to Dynamics -- they may have even exceeded them.

I'm sure Maya's dynamics are still far better. Don't forget LW's dynamics are just plugins. I'm sure it's far behind what's actually in Maya, just as the old particles and soft bodies couldn't even hold a candle to them.

Gui Lo
07-30-2003, 02:00 PM
@DeadMan

We are seeing only show demos and a pre-release version at that. So no one knows!

Since Maya is now only a few hundred more('and offers more out of the box') Lightwave is getting more popular in the movies.

I am sure they could all afford Maya but more and more studios seem to be talking about using Lightwave to model and render.

I wonder why?

DeadMan
07-30-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Gui Lo
@DeadMan
Since Maya is now only a few hundred more('and offers more out of the box') Lightwave is getting more popular in the movies.

I am sure they could all afford Maya but more and more studios seem to be talking about using Lightwave to model and render.

I wonder why?

Actually, that was ONLY true in the past. LightWave is being used less and less now that it is so far behind on technology/features and that Maya is much cheaper.

hrgiger
07-30-2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by DeadMan
I'm sure Maya's dynamics are still far better...

As long as you're sure....:rolleyes:

colkai
07-30-2003, 03:15 PM
Deadman...
So one can presume that you will buy Maya then yes?

After all LW is far behind - never gonna catch up yes?

Lw not used anymore in the movies Hmm?

So tell me - where do you get your information - have you not seen the list of projects is has been used on in the lst 12 months alone?

But then, as you're obviously going to buy Maya, why even contribute?

Or, if you already own Maya - why waste your time in a group dedicated to a software package you think so little of?

DeadMan
07-30-2003, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by colkai
Deadman...
So one can presume that you will buy Maya then yes?

After all LW is far behind - never gonna catch up yes?

Lw not used anymore in the movies Hmm?

So tell me - where do you get your information - have you not seen the list of projects is has been used on in the lst 12 months alone?

But then, as you're obviously going to buy Maya, why even contribute?

Or, if you already own Maya - why waste your time in a group dedicated to a software package you think so little of?

I've been using Maya along with LightWave for some time now. I orinally went to Maya to solve LightWave lack of ca tools, but found it offers so much more.

I didn't say LightWave isn't used anymore, just that it's being used less and less.

I'm here because LightWave is still in my pipeline and I'm hoping it actually does get much better.

Gui Lo
07-30-2003, 03:35 PM
NO I hardly heard of Lightwave being used in movies before.

Most of the chatter was about Maya. I think A/W must have had a discount scheme for studios that mentioned their product.

Now thankfully Lightwave is being mentioned more and more. Most recent comments about LW seem to mention the Modeler bing the industry best and the renderer competing with Renderman.

DeadMan
07-30-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Gui Lo
the renderer competing with Renderman.

That's the biggest joke I've ever heard. LightWave's render is nowhere near as good as PRMan (on quality, speed, flexability, etc). There are many standalone renderers, which are much better than LW, that still don't even come close to PRMan.

cresshead
07-30-2003, 03:42 PM
-yawn-

:o


hey, to my eye's lightwave cuts a pretty neat rug for cg effects


maya is not the "holy grail" of 3d apps.
in the same breath neither is lightwave, max or xsi.

it's another choice you could make...but not ness. the best/cheapest/fastest/simplest/most slow/expensive choice ...depending on what you need to make/animate and render maya or lightwave is top.

steve g

Shade01
07-30-2003, 03:46 PM
That's the biggest joke I've ever heard. LightWave's render is nowhere near as good as PRMan (on quality, speed, flexability, etc). There are many standalone renderers, which are much better than LW, that still don't even come close to PRMan.

DeadMan = CIM

Doug Nicola
07-30-2003, 03:50 PM
Oh DUH! Of course, CIM is back! Hello, "Dead"Man!

cresshead
07-30-2003, 03:51 PM
QUOTE:That's the biggest joke I've ever heard. LightWave's render is nowhere near as good as PRMan END QUOTE:

WELL THAT DEPENDS...on the project

for example the addidas t.v commercial where digital domain use lightwave's renderer with HDRI lighting to render out phtotoreal animation of the "leg robots".

to be honest how more real can you get?...
would prman [photorealistic renderman] do a better job?

and what if it did?...does that make the quality of the lightwave render in that project poor..just because it was not pr renderman?


the results speak for themselves...stunning cg that everyone who watched it thought it was real....not c.g.

of course that's only my opinion based off of comments from people who saw the ad.



steve g

anieves
07-30-2003, 04:38 PM
I saw today in the stream an overlay graphic that said shipping 04
and I think that's good news, looking forward other announcements Lee.

BTW, how is it going Cim? have a pop-scicle:D

Dodgy
07-30-2003, 04:48 PM
Wasn't cim's avatar a troll? Some kind of a green head thing?

jb_gfx
07-30-2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Dodgy
Wasn't cim's avatar a troll? Some kind of a green head thing?

Give this man a beer :)

Btw, Maya's dynamics sucks so much I don't see how you can compares it with Ino's brilliant work.

bobakabob
07-30-2003, 06:57 PM
It's not surprising trolls like cim visit the forums to stir the hive.

There is constructive and there's destructive. Yep, it's crucial for LW to evolve; it exists in a ferociously competitive market and to survive it obviously needs to constantly be improved and refined. Artists can always do with new tools to make life easier... But there is a limit to what can reasonably be expected and I agree with Colkai that there's sometimes so much unecessary negativity here... and more than a suggestion that some extra bell or whistle is going to make you a better artist. It can take a lifetime to learn to play the same guitar. Some people claim they support LW, but because of their tone they're in danger of becoming useful propagandists for the competition.

I don't understand why some people don't just buy Maya if it's so 'cheap' (not the case actually - in the UK, Maya (in) Complete costs an extra £500 - that's a lot of dough for a 'lite' app) and go off and moan on their forums.

The stunning LW "Dune" sequences (which many professionals mistakenly assumed were done in Maya) and the new animation and dynamics features on the video streams surely amplify the fact LW can take on the high end apps and give pretty astonishing value for money.

Psyhke
07-30-2003, 07:42 PM
May be old news, but...

Some reason to think Newtek has not planned to ignore Modeler and Renderer development: These position openings have been posted for quite some time on Newteks site. I assume they have found some people to fill the roles by now. These are just two positions, there a few others listed too.

3D MODELING ENGINGEER

3D Skills --

- 3+ years experience in 3D application development.
- Polygonal modeling.
- Curved surfaces including sub-division surfaces, n-patches and Bezier patches.
- Procedural geometry.
- UV mapping techniques.
- Edge and polygonal based geometry manipulations.
- Procedural geometry manipulations.
- Volume manipulations of geometry.
- Boolean operations on geometry.
- Hardware acceleration including vertex shaders.
- Real-time and interactive geometry manipulations.
- Understanding of games related formats and technologies.
- Strong 3D mathematics skills.
- Strong understanding of user interface design and work-flow.


3D RENDERING ENGINEER

Rendering Skills --

- 3+ years experience in 3D application development.
- Practical experience of Scan-line rendering and Ray tracing techniques.
- Ray / surface intersection techniques.
- Spatial partitioning techniques.
- Lighting and radiosity.
- Texturing and texture filtering.
- Bump mapping and sub-pixel geometry level deformations.
- Image filtering and sample gathering.
- Image post processing and 2.5D effects.
- Motion blur and depth of field techniques.
- Graphics hardware acceleration and pixel shaders.
- Some knowledge of the Pixar RenderMan™ or a similar scene description language and architecture.



Notice the mention of things like "Edge Manipulation", "Procedural Geometry", and "Sub-pixel Deformations"...

:) :D :)

DeadMan
07-30-2003, 07:49 PM
I think too many people have a CIM fetish. :rolleyes:

jb_gfx
07-30-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Psyhke

- Edge and polygonal based geometry manipulations.


Oh no!! LW8 will have edge and polygon modelling tools but they will remove points!!

:)

Psyhke
07-30-2003, 08:00 PM
Hehe! Yeah, they probably just want to keep the feature set at a sensible level, instead of just piling them on all willy-nilly. :)

hrgiger
07-30-2003, 11:24 PM
Just in case you're not CIM Deadman and was wondering who he was, you're not missing out. He was a real jerk.

Dodgy
07-31-2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by jb_gfx
Give this man a beer :)


Milkshake please :)

colkai
07-31-2003, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by bobakabob
But there is a limit to what can reasonably be expected and I agree with Colkai that there's sometimes so much unecessary negativity here...

Thanks for that, I was beginning to think *I* was the mad one ;)



..and more than a suggestion that some extra bell or whistle is going to make you a better artist. It can take a lifetime to learn to play the same guitar.


Yeah - don't I know it. You don't need a $5000 guitar to be a good guitarist. I've seen amazing players using $200 axes (hate 'em I do - they players that is ..talent depresses me :p)



Some people claim they support LW, but because of their tone they're in danger of becoming useful propagandists for the competition.
<snip>
..... the new animation and dynamics features on the video streams surely amplify the fact LW can take on the high end apps and give pretty astonishing value for money.

Bravo and well said - a voice of reason!
What fascinates me is the passion LW inspires, either for OR against - I guess that says something about it as well.
Love me or hate me - ya can't ignore me :D :D :D