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prometheus
08-03-2008, 04:05 PM
well.. thought I should fill this forum up a little:) check movie..and pic

somekind of plasma effect or energy field, maybe something for the green lantern heroe I donīt know.

geometry displaced in layout,very heavy subdivisions and then added hypervoxels sprites with very small particle size.
added the shine in aftereffects with trapcode shine and also changed the color from originally blue to green.

Michael

shrox
08-03-2008, 04:51 PM
That looks good. I have never used AfterEffects. I am going to check it out though.

prometheus
08-03-2008, 05:18 PM
well ..shine is a plugin from trapcode and not native in aftereffects..easy
to set up the light shine in aftereffects..but the rest is all Lightwave, with object displacement and hypervoxels sprites.

Itīs basicly the same principle as used as in this thread over at spinquad.
check the fourth post at that thread (phamarus)

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87003

Michael

prometheus
08-03-2008, 05:25 PM
OOps wrong link

heres the correct
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17482

rakker16mm
08-03-2008, 05:33 PM
That is very cool. It looks like the same technique could be used to make wispy smoke or steam. Is there any chance you would care to post your scene :santa::thumbsup::D

shrox
08-03-2008, 05:54 PM
Plus you can move an object through it without a harsh line like from a polygon. Could even get some interesting collision of gas against a ship hull, like in the Voyager intro.

Hopper
08-03-2008, 06:14 PM
Hmmm I wonder what would happen if you applied this technique to a mesh version of William Vaughan's "pin" tutorial and drive the smoke from an alpha channel of another animation. Could be pretty interesting.... or ... it could suck.. :D I wish I had time to try it.

prometheus
08-04-2008, 12:41 AM
Plus you can move an object through it without a harsh line like from a polygon. Could even get some interesting collision of gas against a ship hull, like in the Voyager intro.

well that voyager intro was all particles I believe, to be able to get that dynamic response I would have to make it a cloth object and a little different approach when rendering out the hypervoxels, after calculation..in the file tab of cloth, the play mode has to be changed that will work, otherwise the hv sprites wonīt follow the animation.

remember this is hv sprites directly on to the subdivision points, so it might give a decent look, but I havenīt tried to acheive that kind of dynamic look yet.
also since itīs geometry...whenever the stretching or displacement gets to big, the distance between points will be more pronounced and that will show up as big gaps in the hypervoxels, the same problem as not having enough high amount of particles.

Michael

prometheus
08-04-2008, 12:45 AM
Hmmm I wonder what would happen if you applied this technique to a mesh version of William Vaughan's "pin" tutorial and drive the smoke from an alpha channel of another animation. Could be pretty interesting.... or ... it could suck.. :D I wish I had time to try it.

yeah sounds interesting but also very complex, after all we would need another animation, itīs probably like if we were to use smoke fluids from Dynamite fluids and then used it together with this and that would probably be overworking it since all we would have to use is Dynamite.

but I get the Idea, I think

Michael

JohnMarchant
08-04-2008, 01:09 AM
any chance of the scene file prometheus ??

Regards, John

JohnMarchant
08-04-2008, 01:10 AM
Its similar in a way to the smoky cloth of the oracle in the movie 300 and that was all done in LightWave

dee
08-04-2008, 09:47 AM
very cool prometheus! :thumbsup:

prometheus
08-04-2008, 01:01 PM
Its similar in a way to the smoky cloth of the oracle in the movie 300 and that was all done in LightWave

yeah..itīs kind of similar but they used bones and morphs and surface shading that is way faster and production friendly perhaps.

However Im not sure about that smoke, If they could have used hypervoxels on the smoke objects, I would say it could have looked better, since hv sprites pick up light and the point gathering and intersection creates a density
in a more natural smoke way, and that seems to be impossible to acheive with surfaces.
Itīs fully understandable thou why they didnīt use hypervoxels.

I wonder if hypervoxels in a near future will be able to apply on the whole object and not only points and particles so it wouldnīt matter how much the object is deformed, the shading would still be there without breakups.
or for particles that distance between particle parameter, or why not a hv rendertime interpolator that checks distance between particle and fills in gaps where it is needed, that way it wouldnīt need that much particles to calculate.

Ohh and no sorry..I will not post the scenefile, I will do a tutorial on this when I get my cute butt moving.

Michael

JohnMarchant
08-04-2008, 09:49 PM
Hey even better mate, a tutorial would be great,

Regards, John

Ztreem
08-05-2008, 01:36 PM
nice, looks good!

JBT27
08-08-2008, 09:40 AM
yeah..itīs kind of similar but they used bones and morphs and surface shading that is way faster and production friendly perhaps.

However Im not sure about that smoke, If they could have used hypervoxels on the smoke objects, I would say it could have looked better, since hv sprites pick up light and the point gathering and intersection creates a density
in a more natural smoke way, and that seems to be impossible to acheive with surfaces.
Itīs fully understandable thou why they didnīt use hypervoxels.

I wonder if hypervoxels in a near future will be able to apply on the whole object and not only points and particles so it wouldnīt matter how much the object is deformed, the shading would still be there without breakups.
or for particles that distance between particle parameter, or why not a hv rendertime interpolator that checks distance between particle and fills in gaps where it is needed, that way it wouldnīt need that much particles to calculate.

Ohh and no sorry..I will not post the scenefile, I will do a tutorial on this when I get my cute butt moving.

Michael

A distance between particles parameter is one of the key missing components of HVs.....hopefully for LW 10.x.....

Julian.

prometheus
08-08-2008, 11:45 AM
A distance between particles parameter is one of the key missing components of HVs.....hopefully for LW 10.x.....

Julian.

Yepp..just find your place back in the row of people who wantīs it...itīs a
long line.

Michael

Mr Rid
08-16-2008, 05:06 PM
Yepp..just find your place back in the row of people who wantīs it...itīs a
long line.

Michael

*sigh*

Intuition
09-05-2008, 04:09 PM
Heh, did you get the idea from other trapcode plug-ins? ;)

http://www.trapcode.com/products_form.html

jin choung
09-05-2008, 05:27 PM
actually, i wonder if it would look very different if you just used the right kind of shader on that deforming object's polys....

something like a fresnel dealy keyed to angle toward camera lense and/or an additive transparency dealy might look similar...

but really nice look.

jin

prometheus
09-06-2008, 06:35 AM
Heh, did you get the idea from other trapcode plug-ins? ;)

http://www.trapcode.com/products_form.html

Nope I did this long before I saw that, I donīt have have that form plugin.

donīt know really where I got this Idea from, I guess I just was playing around with displacements and hypervoxels and trying to shade objects with it.
Michael

prometheus
09-06-2008, 06:46 AM
actually, i wonder if it would look very different if you just used the right kind of shader on that deforming object's polys....

something like a fresnel dealy keyed to angle toward camera lense and/or an additive transparency dealy might look similar...

but really nice look.

jin

if someone could make a shader for this purpose, I would be very happy..but itīs not the same in terms of where density increases where Points(hvparticles) are gathered close together and intersect each other, and that also picks up light and opacity in a way that surface shaders canīt I guess.
the fresnel and incindence angles would give increased luminosity at an overall style based on angles and not point density.

you could of course get close with very good results, but it will still not be the same.

Yeah a surface shader that gets point density information and increases lumonosity based on that would be nice, if ever possible?

I would like to se a hypervoxels 4 with an option to apply hv to the whole object so it doesnīt matter how much we displace the object it wouldnīt break up the voxels, It still need to gather point information thou to increase density where itīs needed. then a quality sample setting to set the renderspeed and sharpness.

Michael

prometheus
09-06-2008, 07:09 AM
well actually ..when I start to think..It.s not easy in the morning:)
I think I had the image style of chaoscope in my mind, but animating in chaosscope isnīt as fast as I can do with realtime respons in lightwave when
displacing geometry.

Ohh..and if we could have a Krakatoa type render that interpolates particles or is it partitition? so the calculation is on a lower set of particles and at rendertime it is increased to insane amounts, then whe could have some really awesome stuff when working with particles and winds.

check out pixelpro on vimeo ..some krakatoa stuff and 3dmax particles.
http://www.vimeo.com/1370647

Michael

jin choung
09-06-2008, 03:37 PM
Yeah a surface shader that gets point density information and increases lumonosity based on that would be nice, if ever possible?

actually, this is why i mentioned the 'additive' thing... if you make it transparent with the surface having an additive effect, you might get something similar as it pertains to particles "bunching up" along the camera z.

actually, yah the idea comes from faking the chaoscope kind of effect with displaced geometry instead of billions of particles (i believe the intent with original tuts was to fake the work of that one scientist guy who died recently that did the fx for the superman movie open and solaris).

they called it "trendwhore" for a while... : )

jin

prometheus
09-06-2008, 09:24 PM
yeah..Jin Coung!
Ive seen that trendwhore stuff, and Ive been trying to acheive this with surfacing aswell, doing incidence angles and surface thickness on transparency and lumonosity channels, but it doesnīt get that nice tone and
density as with hypervoxels, and yeah glow or postprocessing might help..but still not the same.

the point gathering gives density changes according to where in space the point/points are and opacity settings in hv:s will pick up light accordingly and when intersecting each other so hypervoxels has a depth to it that surfaces just cant reach.

Ohh..I would like to have some suggestions on what to call this stuff, voxel spin or something else?

heres a link to only two displacement clips, I will put up some more stuff later on inlcuding particles.

http://www.vimeo.com/videos/search:michael%20ivarsson

Actually..particles can get close if using right objects as emitters set to object line since that will emitt particles in a fixed ordered way
that canīt be done with ordinary emitters..the eye picks up random patterns easier than a single line for example, thus it will appear to be a smoother blending of particles when emitters are from an object set to object line as I did in this thread not the same stuff thou but youll get the idea.

http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21294

ohh..can anybody get this close with surfaces? just do a sphere and put it in layout and displace it with the ripple procedural ...this one is a preview from
viper and the object has a subpatch level at 50 ...and that gives around
330 000 points gathered.

Michael

jin choung
09-06-2008, 10:08 PM
yeah your results look a lot nicer.

i remember playing around with the trendwhore fakes a while back (actually, coincidentally, for a green latern's effect!) and the results were close and looked good when i blurred it a tiny bit in post. but without the blur, it looked a bit aliasy and betrayed the transparent polys conceit.

jin

Mr Rid
09-07-2008, 01:31 AM
Am reminded of VLam in Fusion
http://www.box.net/shared/static/sbisg1919s.mov

And the late great mad particle genius, Richard 'Doc' Bailey, http://www.imagesavant.com/ who created the ethereal FX for the Solaris remake, and Stay. Am not sure but his code may have had something to do with Krakatoa from when Frantic worked with him.

62929

prometheus
09-07-2008, 07:15 AM
yeah your results look a lot nicer.

i remember playing around with the trendwhore fakes a while back (actually, coincidentally, for a green latern's effect!) and the results were close and looked good when i blurred it a tiny bit in post. but without the blur, it looked a bit aliasy and betrayed the transparent polys conceit.

jin
yeah...exactly right on the spot, same thing for me when doing surfaces, thats why Ive been doing this with hv:s ..and no antialiasing needed and a preview of the animation is easy to set up when using viper.
Of course when rendering from camera the render subpatch should be used instead.

It would be nice to have some more animated procedurals with built in simulation types, right now the simple first ripple procedural works best on the normals.
I have to play around some more with cloth fx and morphs aswell and combining it with particles too perhaps.

Maybe when Tim Dunn isnīt busy doint tutes, he might come up with something, I tried aurora attractor, but itīs a little hard to get what you want
and to animate.

Geez...I have to see the solaris movie some day.
that vlam for fusion looks similar as to the flame fractal generator plugin in aftereffects.
I wonder? is vlam created in 3d space?


Michael

OlaHaldor
09-08-2008, 04:25 PM
Nice.. NICE.. NICE!!! I'm working on a titlesequence where the finale needs an awesome cloudless sky with loads of fantastic northern lights.. This technique would probably solve that problem. I'll dig into it when the time comes. Hurraay!

Mr Rid
09-08-2008, 06:14 PM
Nice.. NICE.. NICE!!! I'm working on a titlesequence where the finale needs an awesome cloudless sky with loads of fantastic northern lights.. This technique would probably solve that problem. I'll dig into it when the time comes. Hurraay!


I recall seeing a good looking aurora effect out of ParticleIllusion.
http://www.wondertouch.com/

Mr Rid
09-08-2008, 11:02 PM
Tried a vague experiment with sprite threads, vortex wind, 1000% moblur, post processed with glass in Fusion.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/na4bu6isot.mov

prometheus
09-09-2008, 08:53 AM
looks interesting Mr Rid..god dam, My computer is down..I have to fix a fan on the power supply so I canīt test anything right now, and my fingers are already itching, guess Im a 3d holic, not sure if itīs a good thing or bad thing thou?
And yeah, Particle illusion for doing aurora borealis would most certainly be a good choice.

and of cours doing it with displacement and shading it as I have done in these voxel spins would work fine to I believe..just setting up a different object for a curtain and displace it, one can also use cloth fx and fix some points if we want to control the "curtain ripple " with winds instead.

use either ordinary surfacing techniques or add hypervoxels to it.
another way is to use particles or only some nulls.

what else do we have to make the aurora borealis?
textured environment can do it to..a little harder to get a nice color tone with it I think and to simulate the light lumonosity.

A cylinder and using procedurals on that works to.

And volumetric lights would probably work to, I havenīt tried that thou.

Michael

Mr Rid
09-09-2008, 12:24 PM
...
And yeah, Particle illusion for doing aurora borealis would most certainly be a good choice.



Am informed that it is "emitters_03_06.il3" in the Illusion library.

ClothFX would be my second approach.

JBT27
09-09-2008, 03:40 PM
Tried a vague experiment with sprite threads, vortex wind, 1000% moblur, post processed with glass in Fusion.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/na4bu6isot.mov

That looks really good.....I like alot the things that can be dne with vastly extended motion blur.

Julian.

Mr Rid
09-09-2008, 10:24 PM
That looks really good.....I like alot the things that can be dne with vastly extended motion blur.

Julian.

There's a lot to be tried in post processing as well. Fusion is always half the formula for me.

mis
09-15-2008, 07:56 AM
very nice plazma like lazer smoke like effect you made there
very smooth and soft
expecialy the first samples.

wouldnt have thought that was hypervoxel

mis

erikals
09-15-2008, 10:34 AM
Tried a vague experiment with sprite threads, vortex wind, 1000% moblur, post processed with glass in Fusion.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/na4bu6isot.mov

cool, looks like it is possible making a snow storm using this method. :cool:

ausaf
09-24-2008, 09:50 PM
Effects you given are very natural in seen but i think it need more improvments.


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