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calico
07-29-2003, 11:17 AM
Can you guys see the live stream from SIGGRAPH on Newtek site?

FUSION301
07-29-2003, 11:20 AM
I'm trying all i get is sound WTF....I hope this is just me and not NEWTEK once again leaving out the entire Mac community!!!!!
Someone Help

Triple G
07-29-2003, 11:26 AM
Nope, it's not just you. The only thing I could do was copy/paste the url (mms://newtektv.com/siggraph2003) into WMP7, and I get the same thing: sound, but no audio.

Looks like Mac users are still bottom of the list where Newtek is concerned...:(

FUSION301
07-29-2003, 11:36 AM
Well This is noway to convince me to upgrade to 8..Is there an alternate player we could try?

Brian Peterson
07-29-2003, 12:09 PM
The stream requires Media Player 9 or you can't see the visiuals. Since M$ hasn't updated Media Player on the Mac since 7...

Brian

Zarathustra
07-29-2003, 12:18 PM
THIS IS SOOOOOOOO F'ING UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO THOUGHT IS GIVEN TO US!
NONE!!!


I don't know why I'm surprised, though.

FUSION301
07-29-2003, 12:21 PM
Dont you think someone would have thought about this before streaming in 9...last year worked fine...I dont want to piss and moan but, come on guys!!

jpburns
07-29-2003, 01:18 PM
Yes... this sucks.

It's inconsiderate and stupid for NewTek to not even consider what this would mean to Mac users.

I'm also pissed, and would recommend y'all do what I've done, namely, let NewTek know what you think of this. Send your thoughful comments to any NewTek email addresses you might have.

I'm so disappointed. It's getting harder and harder to dismiss this kind of inconsiderate behavior.

nawDsign
07-29-2003, 02:04 PM
Ummm.. yea this really blows.. worst than my owl and bungie cord joke. http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8700

weooow weoow weooow

FUSION301
07-29-2003, 02:14 PM
Yeah and what sucks even more is having all your PC buddies IM'ing you and telling you whats going on while I sit here at work and try and figure out what the hell he's talking about....CANT YOU JUST STREAM IN 7 OR SOMETHING..DAMN THIS IS ANNOYING...I guess next year I'll have to buy a plane ticket instead...

Zarathustra
07-29-2003, 02:29 PM
...or follow Policarpo's comment of buying a cheap. fast PC for $300 in order to watch a Stream

jnjcre8
07-29-2003, 06:10 PM
How can you have a mac product and pc and not have a stream for the mac.

All I have to say is thats crap.

At least when Brad Peebler was around I was able to watch the stream on the mac.

Well, I must say I am totally disappointed.

Triple G
07-29-2003, 06:31 PM
This is absolutely, 100%, completely unacceptable. How you can produce a webcast and not even bother to ensure that it will run on both Mac and PC, especially when a large percentage of your users are Mac owners, is totally beyond my comprehension. There are plenty of viable solutions for doing live streams which are perfectly compatible with both platforms, but once again, Newtek has shown that in their eyes, PC users are the only ones who really matter. Way to instill confidence in your Mac users, Newtek. :rolleyes: Thanks a lot.

luka
07-29-2003, 07:39 PM
Like I posted in the community
Quicktime Pro costs $29.99

Community post (http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8694&perpage=15&pagenumber=2)

Johnny
07-29-2003, 08:52 PM
my figurative face feels slapped....

policarpo
07-29-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
...or follow Policarpo's comment of buying a cheap. fast PC for $300 in order to watch a Stream

dude, get over yourself.

did i do something to you? i see you bashing me here and elsewhere. way to go!

i believe in the Mac as a viable platform for creation. i just invested in a 15" PowerBook 1ghz for LightWave work, but I still own a PC to offload renders to and see things i can't see on the mac.

:D

ps: i am not leaving the newtek boards no matter how much you try to get under my skin. but whatever makes you happy, or sad and keeps you breathing. :p

battery555
07-30-2003, 12:22 AM
Is this double standard or something? This is right down inconsiderate to the mac users. My question is how difficult to have both platforms viewable. Perhaps the numbers of mac users are too insignificant for newtek to give us a thought.
Are mac users really that unimportant? Iím getting very sour here. I paid the same price here but why this kind of treatment?
:mad:

Darth Mole
07-30-2003, 03:35 AM
NT should take a leaf out of Luxolgy's book - their brand new app isn't even finshed yet, but we have a bunch of really nice, hi-res screenshots and a little explanation.

What do LW's loyal users get? A press release (oh, and a live web stream which is great if you have a PC, the right Windows media player, a Broadband connection, and happen to be awake and/or online when SIGGRAPH takes place).

This company needs a good, swift kick up the arse.

serpicolugnut
07-30-2003, 05:57 AM
With all the ill-will towards their Mac user base, it's a wonder Newtek sells any Mac verisons of their software.

All of their promos lately have been PC centric... And their continued use of a Windows only codec is just infuriating.

Use QT guys and EVERYBODY will be happy....

GruvSyco
07-30-2003, 01:24 PM
I'm going to try and get some stream caps for the mac guys this afternoon. Does anyone have a good recommendation for Quicktime audio compression? Probably going to use Mpeg4 for video.

Jean-Paul Lar.
07-30-2003, 02:29 PM
This just straight up pisses me off come on newtek i like you guys but if your gonna keep us mac users in the dark at least do it in an apoligetic way not just slap us in the face....I bought a copy no different then the PC users and those bastards get to see whats new and we dont....Thats bull#@$!.....come on atleast an appoligy would do......:mad: :mad: :confused:

jpburns
07-30-2003, 02:30 PM
Any standard (read:cross-platform) codec will do. I'd be happy to test/report back to you about results.

Thanks for making an effort...

James Burns
[email protected]

Jean-Paul Lar.
07-30-2003, 02:34 PM
sorry for the bitterness and no offence to the pc users im just upset....:mad:

Zarathustra
07-30-2003, 02:52 PM
GruvSyco: ANY effort would be appreciated. Sorry, I know nothing about streaming so I can't offer any tech advice.

Policarpo: Crucuify me if I blatantly mudsling, but I've merely quoted you in other posts. You have to take responsibility for your words. If you don't want me quoting your inflammatory comments, then DON'T MAKE INFLAMMATORY COMMENTS. How difficult is that?
Your positive input greatly outweighs but does not erase nor excuse your negative input. I definitely don't want you gone. You're not gonna trap me into making you a martyr here like on CGTalk.

GruvSyco
07-30-2003, 03:32 PM
I hope to have some of this stuff up ~7pm pacific time. I'll probably have it up until the start of the event tomorrow and down during the days events so, I can capture tomorrows stuff for everyone too.

Hopefully Newtek won't have any issues with me posting it.

If anyone out there is familiar with quicktime encoding, I'm looking for a recommended audio codec for the encoding so, I can get the file size down a little.

Also, If anyone can mirror these once they are posted, it would help. I'll be hosting these on my personal computer and, I imagine my bandwidth will get slaughtered pretty quick.

Triple G
07-30-2003, 04:26 PM
GruvSyco, that would be excellent and MOST appreciated. I don't know much about streaming, but I've found that for regular, non-streaming Quicktime files, Qualcomm Purevoice works very well for audio involving mostly speech. I may be able to mirror them on my personal site if they're not too huge, but I wouldn't count on it. I think I've only got something like 50MB of space, and I'm not too sure about the bandwidth restriction. But like I said, if I can, I'll be glad to help out. :)

policarpo
07-30-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
GruvSyco: ANY effort would be appreciated. Sorry, I know nothing about streaming so I can't offer any tech advice.

Policarpo: Crucuify me if I blatantly mudsling, but I've merely quoted you in other posts. You have to take responsibility for your words. If you don't want me quoting your inflammatory comments, then DON'T MAKE INFLAMMATORY COMMENTS. How difficult is that?
Your positive input greatly outweighs but does not erase nor excuse your negative input. I definitely don't want you gone. You're not gonna trap me into making you a martyr here like on CGTalk.

That's cool and I stand by the things I say...and I mean what I say.

Take it easy and just for the record...no love lost here. :)

battery555
07-30-2003, 10:39 PM
thanks to all who contributed. i wish i could help but half the time i don't know about this streaming thing.
Err... just a question GruvSyco, that's mean i can view the video with my browser right?

Rey
07-30-2003, 10:49 PM
Isn't QT streaming free? It's funny 'cause during their demos of animation clips at SIGGRAPH they are using QT. It must be the bad economy too since Newtek's booth is half the size it was a couple years ago when I last attended in L.A. It was kinda ghetto this year, no seats, no Macs, no Peebler...

policarpo
07-30-2003, 11:55 PM
Originally posted by Rey
Isn't QT streaming free? It's funny 'cause during their demos of animation clips at SIGGRAPH they are using QT. It must be the bad economy too since Newtek's booth is half the size it was a couple years ago when I last attended in L.A. It was kinda ghetto this year, no seats, no Macs, no Peebler...

i think most of the stuff they are actually showing in the demos from clients are either MPEG-2 from DVD, or your standard Beta tapes...the quality is too high to be anything else...or it's sitting on the VT[3] hard drive that Aussie (sorry if i spelled his name wrong) is controlling the show with, and that would most likely be uncompressed D1 footage....or at least NTSC standard footage.

Beamtracer
08-01-2003, 05:36 AM
Quicktime Compression Hints:

1. Use MPEG-4 or Sorenson 3 codecs for vision
2. Set the quality to something less than high
3. Crank up the "keyframes". Use a setting of 100 or more.


Regarding unviewable Newtek videos:

It would have been so simple to ensure access for Mac people. Instead, for whatever reason, it's turned into a public relations disaster.

It's happened on numerous other occasions. I guess it'll happen again. In this case, some Mac people were actually dropping hints on this forum that any videos or streams should be cross platform. I guess nobody from Newtek was reading it.

It's really very sad. :(

Newtek: It would benefit your company profits to make Mac users feel included. The current situation is costing sales.

OnePerson
08-01-2003, 07:03 AM
I think I have the answer to the Mac users problems.

NT makes the VT so I'm sure they are using this to do the streaming. I went to a training session about a year ago, right before VT2 was coming out, and they were hyping the fact that VT can stream like 8 streams.

So, being a company that wants to show off its technology I bet they are trying to do just that.

VT only works on a PC w/ Windows and I doubt it has the power to convert the windows stream to a qt stream straight out of the box.

Of course theres Cleaner.

Just a guess on the VT stuff though.

Zarathustra
08-01-2003, 09:01 AM
Sadly Beam, I doubt if there's a great deal of $ to be had from the Mac users. How many of us are there? As much as I *****, it's still a miracle we have a Mac version.
Thankfully, Lux seems to have bought into the "sexiness" of Apple. All there interfaces are shown on a Mac. Could you imagine seeing anything Apple on Newtek's site?

I just hope all this damn guessing and fretting doesn't continue until 8 is released (which is when? Fall? X-mas? 2004?).

denny
08-01-2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
In this case, some Mac people were actually dropping hints on this forum that any videos or streams should be cross platform. I guess nobody from Newtek was reading it.

Beam,

The funny thing was weeks before Siggraph, Chuck even responded to my request to please remember the Mac users for the stream.

I guess they were too busy to remember us Mac users and this year they didn't find a solution the last day?

[THREAD LINK] (http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8101&perpage=15&highlight=mac%20stream&pagenumber=9)

quote:
Originally posted by denny
But PLEASE Newtek, tell us that the Mac users will be able to access the feed this year. Last time the stream was not set up for us Mac users to view, you needed a PC.

Please don't forget us Mac users who cannot attend this year.

Thanks!
Denny


Originally posted by Chuck
I think it was not until the last day of the show last year that we corrected the streaming issue that affected Mac users. I will remind the web team of the issue.
__________________
Chuck Baker -- NewTek, Inc.
Director of Corporate Communications
http://www.newtek.com/

Rey
08-01-2003, 03:19 PM
They don't care. They will tell you what you want to hear. They knew there was a problem with the stream last year but did nothing to ensure the stream would be viewable by Mac users this year. I wonder what excuse they'll come up with this time ...or maybe they won't even comment.

jpburns
08-01-2003, 04:02 PM
I just got a nice reply, and apology from a member of the NewTek team. It seemed heartfelt and genuine, and, yes, I believe that they do care about us Macintosh users.

What probably happened was a disconnect between the techies who set up the stream and NewTek's management (and Marketing, I'd imagine). I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully a lesson was learned about the marketing effect actions like this have...

What'd be cool is for NewTek to optimize LW8 for the G5, as a was of saying "We're sorry..."
;)

Zarathustra
08-01-2003, 05:25 PM
I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not. Although I don't believe they purposely sought to exclude us, they also didn't seek to include us. They just did nothing.

Yeah, well hopefully they do look at this as a big OOPS and try and make it up to us instead of just shrugging it off as usual.

OnePerson
08-01-2003, 07:12 PM
I also resell macs for a specialist and was taking a G5 overview course from the Apple Sales training site. The G5 Product manager, in a QT file, was talking about the apps used to test the performance of the G5, not only did he mention the defacto apps, photoshop, blast, etc. he also specifically mentioned the use of Lightwave to test the 3D performance of the G5.

So, Apple is using LW in its tests internally.

That's a plus. I agree with most posters that it would be nice to hear from NT about the progress or status of LW for Mac.:D

toby
08-01-2003, 07:46 PM
I was in San Diego so I'm just finding out about this, even though it didn't effect me I think it's INEXCUSABLE.

Not only did they ignore 'half the sales of last year', but they did it with inferior software, with no attempt at backwards compatibility on their part or MS's, which is fundamental to Web production. MS wants no compatibilty with Apple and also wants to force all their users to upgrade asap - why is Newtek playing along with this?

It's also happened several times before, like the DFX deal, so I have serious doubts that they'll learn from this or make it up to us. I've never felt like a bastard child before, it sucks. Luxology looks better all the time.

battery555
08-01-2003, 08:15 PM
with all this disappointment from NT, if luxology offer competitive upgrade they will get my dollar. Emm... on second thought, I still love my lightwave 7.5 without "c".

Beamtracer
08-01-2003, 08:31 PM
Whether or not Newtek's Video Toaster was used to create the stream is irrelevant. The fact that Newtek develops another application that is Windows-only should not be reason to exclude Mac users of Lightwave from Newtek content.

I believe that most people within Newtek's Texas office are using Windows computers. The Mac is not on their radar screens, which is why cross-platform compatibility doesn't get considered.

This has happened time and time and time again from Newtek. If you look through the old threads you see many repeats of this one. Mac users get excluded. Usually someone from Newtek apologizes on the thread, and it is forgotten until Mac users are excluded again.

It's quite ludicrous really. It would not have cost very much to use cross-platform formats for video. Instead, thousands of Mac Lightwavers have been inflamed and are angry.

I'm sure this kind of thing costs Newtek in sales and upgrades. I don't believe it is in Newtek's best interests to have its Mac customers angry and spitting chips.

In the meantime, Luxology is sweetly wooing the Mac community.

js33
08-01-2003, 09:07 PM
Well GruvSyco and David Warner have been making the streams available in QT format for all the Mac users. I viewed a few of David's clips and they are no where near the quality of the original stream so keep that in mind. I believe he had to record them out to tape and recapture it to get it in to QT format.
I have most of day 2 and 3 but they are in asf format. They look very good but I don't have a way to convert them to QT and others have already posted them.

Cheers,
JS

Darth Mole
08-01-2003, 10:48 PM
As I stated in another thread, it shouldn't have been up to LW users to convert these streams to a format Mac users could view (personally, I've had zero luck downloading any of them).

I'm one of the people Newtek should be convincing to upgrade. On OSX there's an increasing number of viable options, and despite a fairly heavy investment in LW, eventually the grass WILL be greener on the other side...

Now SIGGRAPH has ended, I expect to see those streams - or at least some nice new demo videos - running in QT on NewTek's site.

Actually, even a few screenshots would be nice...

battery555
08-01-2003, 10:58 PM
Yes! please a few screen shot will beee nice. :(
I'm itching to watch it. Urrr... screen shot, screen shot, screen shot, screen shot, screen shot, screen shot, screen shot, screen shot, SCREEN SHOT!!!

OnePerson
08-02-2003, 05:54 AM
Beam, I agree with you. I was just stating he obvious.

For that matter, I agree with what all are saying about LW and NT. I am not feeling the love!

When I saw Brad up on stage at WWDC I was very excited. Apple is going after the windows users in a very big way. I like their agreesive stance to get the best apps on the Mac no matter what.

From what little I've seen of the QT files LW8 doesn't look like much is new. I would like to see how it has improved. Same UI, though its not bad, its looking dated compared to the modo.

I eager to see more about modo too.
:cool:

paintboy
08-02-2003, 08:04 AM
is it just me? i talked to 2 people yesterday who just returned from sigraph,(yawn)have watched flay, and CGchannel, etc. for most of the week, and havent seen so much as a burp,fart or whistle, about LW8? zero excitement, no buzz about faster, better? there was more flap than this over the last"Up?grade"
hmmmm....

FUSION301
08-02-2003, 10:38 AM
Well I watched most of the siggraph on thurs. I have both pc and mac at home..anyway the particle systems look great, bone deformation looks awesome and the new weighting system in layout is very cool...however I would have liked to see some knew modeling tools as far as I know i didnt see any....but the character animation upgrades are a great improvement...ohhhh did i mention better hard and soft body dynamics...Looks good but i wont upgrade until this ATI issue is resolved, I might have to drop the cash on a new video card, I dont even bother to try and model at home anymore...crash crash crash

js33
08-02-2003, 04:09 PM
Paintboy,

You should venture out of the Mac forum more often.:D
Everything you could possibly want to know about LW8 the good, the bad and the ugly is only a couple mouse clicks away in the Community forum. There is news of the new character tools, bone dynamics, new hard/soft bodies, etc... oh and also the monster thread about Lux modo vs. LW. It's all here you just need to look.

Cheers,
JS

Beamtracer
08-02-2003, 06:40 PM
Poor forgotten Mac users. Nobody hears you.:(

paintboy
08-03-2003, 04:44 AM
Js33
wasnt talking about the clamoring of the faithful....
industry response, PR, etc. just seems unaturally quiet ....thanks anyway i will take a look.