PDA

View Full Version : LW8 : DFX+ deal to be extended + videos



Stranahan
07-24-2003, 06:16 PM
We're pre-announcing that we're going to be announcing the extension of the DFX+ deal.

That means you'll still be able to buy LightWave 8 - a full version or an upgrade - and get eyeon's amazing DFX+ compositing package, plus modules 1 and 4 which give you 3D and visual effects tools.

A lot of people have expressed interest in this bundle, but some aren't exactly sure how the list of features translates into something they can use.

In the name of helping explain this, NewTek has asked me to create some videos that explain in some depth some of the features of DFX+, and show how they work with LightWave. Sort of training and demo stuff, all in one.

Here's a small sample, showing how the Depth Fog tool works - but there are more than an hour's worth of videos coming, plus profiles of LW / Fusion users.

http://www.learnlightwave.com/DFX_demo_videos/DepthFog.mov

This bundle is something I've been hoping for for years. Most of my friends in L.A. who do visual effects have been using a combination of LightWave and Fusion for years. People like my brother Ken helped pioneer the use of these two tools together, and has been passionate about how Fusion not only made his LightWave work better, but also how it helped him land more jobs. Ask any Fusion user and they'll probably tell you the same thing.

I really hope all of you learn something from the videos, and take advantage of this amazing offer. I consider eyeon's products part of my LightWave workflow, and this bundle allows more people then ever before a chance to make their work better, easier, and more flexible.

Andy_D
07-24-2003, 07:14 PM
Hi Lee

This is really great news, I was too late trying to get the cash together for the original deal.
Can you confirm the 7.5 to 8 + DFX+ upgrade price will still be $495, and when will the extended deal start and end?.

Thanks a million
Andy

TyVole
07-24-2003, 07:17 PM
Will it come with a seperate DFX+ dongle?

ghopper
07-24-2003, 07:19 PM
this is good news for people who missed out on this deal. I've ordered mine already and will probably receive it tomorrow ;)

And thanks for the LW + DFX+ tutorial, looking forward to see more of this .... ;)

mr_nebel
07-24-2003, 07:23 PM
Awesome idea but if we have already purchase Lightwave 7.5 + DFX+ (plus upgrade to 8) will there be someway to purchase this training? I just watched the sample and i'd love more of this stuff.

Stranahan
07-24-2003, 07:57 PM
All the training /demo videos are going to be free, and posted on NewTek's site, for anyobdy to watch...

That was just a small sample...

Here's the intro movie - it helps explain the little circles that pop up...

http://www.learnlightwave.com/DFX_demo_videos/Intro.mov

Rory_L
07-24-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Andy_D

Can you confirm the 7.5 to 8 + DFX+ upgrade price will still be $495, and when will the extended deal start and end?.


That`s exactly what I want to know too!! Do please answer this one Lee. I mailed Customer Service about it but they`re probably busy with fielding questions about the party!:)

Cheers,

R

Stranahan
07-24-2003, 08:29 PM
Sorry...my brain is giving out...in addition to doing all this stuff this week, my wife and I were house hunting for our Aug 3rd move....so you can maybe imagine...

Deal starts immediately, and ends....okay, I don't know that one.

And it's $495...

riki
07-24-2003, 08:37 PM
Very glad it's been extended.

DeadMan
07-24-2003, 08:44 PM
There gonna be any more LightWave 8 videos before Siggraph?

Earl
07-24-2003, 09:03 PM
That is really sweet. Thanks for the good news Lee. I won't be missing it this time around. It's also nice that Eyeon has upgrade prices especially for this deal. To upgrade from DXF+ (LW bundle) to Digital Fusion 4 (full thing), it'll cost ya only $2,995.00 USD. Not bad at all (saves 2,000 off the regular full price of DF4).

Earl
07-24-2003, 09:25 PM
Out of curiosity, when ordering the upgrade to LW 8 (with the extended DXF+ deal) from a previous version (say, 7.5), do you get the box with manuals? Or is this a downloaded upgrade?

js33
07-24-2003, 09:41 PM
Hi Earl,

I don't know about Newtek for sure but I got the same deal from Keyframe magazine before they ran out.

I received an Eyeon box with DFX+ program cd and courseware DVD, parallel port dongle for DFX+, DFX Ref and courseware manual and Lightwave 7.5 CDs for Mac and PC. You don't get a LW box or manual with this deal and the upgrade to 8 is a download.

For me this is fine because I already own 7.5 so I just got an extra set of CDs and 8 being only an electronic download is alright but an set of manuals for 8 would be cool.:D

With the help files being html a book isn't really necessary anymore.;)

Plus inside 8 by Dan Ablan will be out soon if you really want a book.:D :D

Maybe you would be able to purchase a set of LW8 books from Newtek for a reasonable fee? I don't know.

Cheers,
JS

Stranahan
07-24-2003, 09:42 PM
I have 5 other (free Quicktime) videos about DFX+ and LightWave done and ready to go. They cover..

- the basics of the interface

- an explanaion of PSD saving in LightWave and how those layers work in Photoshop and DFX+

- an explanation of animation in DFX+

- an example of using grouping to create custom tools

- and a look at some text animation that shows off some under the hood features.

Most of them are around 15 minutes or so long each, and I think they do a good job of explaining common quetions.

And they will be posted on seperate pages, I think, with a new forum opening up to discuss or add to them. (For examply, Deuce saw the text animation one had a really good additional hint - the forum will be for that kind of thing.

Again - all credit goes to NewTek for allowing me to create these and for posting them free.

mr_nebel
07-24-2003, 09:43 PM
Free? well thats better than a kick in the teeth.

Hell i might have to do a dance to celebrate

*dances*

Stranahan
07-24-2003, 09:43 PM
Earl,

I'm not going to comment on whether docs will be included, because I feel that it's still up in the air.

js33
07-24-2003, 09:46 PM
Cool Lee,

Bring em on. I just DFX installed and am anxious to get going on it.:D

Cheers,
JS

Stranahan
07-24-2003, 10:12 PM
Okay - here's one more...for you late nighters and early rising Europeans.....

But I'm pulling down this link in the morning because it's coming off of MY bandwidth....so they need to get transfered to NewTek's site ASAP...

This is a good one, I think, for anyone who is just plain confused by the Fusion interface, and has a couple of good hints even if you use it. It's long - about 20 minutes, I think... any feedback would be great...


http://www.learnlightwave.com/DFX_demo_videos/BasicFusionInterface.mov

hrgiger
07-24-2003, 10:15 PM
Please let us know Lee, as soon as you know anyway, how long the deal will be extended. I'd like to get in on it but I'm not sure when I'll be ready to upgrade.

Andy_D
07-24-2003, 10:59 PM
Exactly,

I missed out on the previous deal simply because its something I have to save for, I only work part time because I`m at university and money is tight. Had I known it was going to be extended, I would`nt have blown $300 on various CG books from Amazon :D .
If its only going to run for one month then I had better find more immoral ways of aquiring the cash :D .

Andy

Stranahan
07-24-2003, 11:03 PM
In New Zealand, don't the sheep have a monopoly on the 'immoral things' market?

Andy_D
07-24-2003, 11:08 PM
I will not take your bait Lee :D , anyway, you would have to ask Larry about the endless possibilities of "sheep" (he is married to a Kiwi after all).

Andy

takkun
07-24-2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by TyVole
Will it come with a seperate DFX+ dongle? The version I got didn't have a dongle and it works fine, you just have to register it to get a license key. (not sure but it might look for a lightwave dongle)

I've only had a little bit of time to play with it but so far I know one thing, I'm in love with it's node based flow! It's just too much fun!

cagey5
07-25-2003, 12:57 AM
I'm sure most of you have seen this by now, but if you want to see what can be achieved with a combination of Lightwave, Digital Fusion and a good idea watch this short film.

http://www.405themovie.com/Home.asp

Hervé
07-25-2003, 02:45 AM
keep making this deal for a month, and I will buy it, but before taht .......way too broke.... he he....

Hervé
07-25-2003, 03:19 AM
In fact I've already downloaded a try version a bit ago , but when I saw the UI, I thought, well It's a dev. kind of thing.... well Lee you did a marveleous job at showing it's not so complicated, or at least it does not seam to be.... and that pushed me litteraly in the "I have to buy that...", On the bad side, my wallet hates you.... he he...

Thanks

Extend it for a month, please M. Newtek...

comanche
07-25-2003, 03:24 AM
That's a great deal. First I decided to upgrade, sell DFX+ on ebay and buy Combustion2, after playing with the C2 demo for a while (never liked AFX). Before the upgrade package arrived I've downloaded the DF4 demo to play with a bit. Guess what? I was impressed by DF and couldn't wait to get my hands on DFX+. Once it was installed I decided to take the special offer to get all the other DFX modules. I'm REALLY happy with it! Forget about C2 :D ...

Go and have a look at DF (DFX+). It's really great.

Cheers,
Andreas

comanche
07-25-2003, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by takkun
The version I got didn't have a dongle and it works fine, you just have to register it to get a license key. (not sure but it might look for a lightwave dongle)

Takkun, could you please remove the LW dongle and check if DFX+ runs without it?

Thanks,
Andreas

colkai
07-25-2003, 04:37 AM
As I understand it, (not that I have got my upgrade yet), the DFX+ license is tied to your LW dongle.

Naturally, those getting the upgrade DON'T get a LW dongle as they should already have one ;)

I must admit, I didn't think I'd do anything with DFX+, I just got it because it's such a good deal.
As a hobbyist - with no real plans to do any live action compositing I would think I would not use it. Though when I get it, I may just change my mind.

TyVole
07-25-2003, 05:08 AM
I work in CG only (no live action.)

I would like to see a tutorial on how DFX+ can improve a CG-only workflow.

-EsHrA-
07-25-2003, 06:24 AM
We in Europe do NOT get a seperate DFX+ dongle which i find almost unacceptable ! :(
So you US folks get the benefit of running on another comp.
I received exactly the same as 'js33' but no DFX+ dongle and i paid the exact price.
Which by the way went up from 450 euros to 495 euros with no differences in the box contents.


I will get in contact with NT about this because i would really like the seperate DFX+ dongle same as the US people.

We Europeans always seem to get less compared to US.



Cheers,

-EsH-

pauland
07-25-2003, 06:24 AM
Great videos Lee. Thank you.

Paul

Philipp
07-25-2003, 06:58 AM
Hi -EsHrA-,

yeah you're completely right, chuck stated that we would get a version we would be able to sell if we wanted, and now we only get the OEM Version which is sticked to LW.

That's really not cool. I want my dongle, too.
Any official statement here??

Yog
07-25-2003, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by -EsHrA-
We in Europe do NOT get a seperate DFX+ dongle which i find almost unacceptable ! :(
So you US folks get the benefit of running on another comp.
I received exactly the same as 'js33' but no DFX+ dongle and i paid the exact price.
Which by the way went up from 450 euros to 495 euros with no differences in the box contents.


I will get in contact with NT about this because i would really like the seperate DFX+ dongle same as the US people.

We Europeans always seem to get less compared to US.



Cheers,

-EsH-

Hi -EsHrA-

It's not a US / Europe thing, it's an early order / late order thing.
I'm from the UK and recieved a seperate dongle.

Seems the setup was changed part way through. I got the feeling that Eyeon were unprepared for the amount of people who took up the initial order, and if I were to guess I would say they might have run out of dongles, hence the switch to LW dongles.

ChrisS
07-25-2003, 07:14 AM
Yep. A bunch of us in the states, myself included, didn't get a dongle for DFX+. A real bummer. Wonder if you can order one from eyeon or something.

-EsHrA-
07-25-2003, 07:31 AM
If Chuck states we would get a version we could sell, we all should have our dongles sent to us at no costs.

I WANT MY DONGLE !!!


Cheers,

-EsH-

colkai
07-25-2003, 07:34 AM
I may be a little cynical...no wait... I *am* cynical ;)

But I think the 'no dongle' thing may be Eyeon's way of stopping a rush of 2nd hand copies of DFX+ on the market.

I may be wrong, it could be they will despatch dongles to all who have got the deal - but I doubt it. At the very least, it is got to be cheaper for them to have a software locked product than send out a piece of hardware with each copy.

It does mean those of us who ordered later rather than sooner have it locked to LW and cannot sell it on. For me, that's not an issue as I bought the package for personal use, not for any other reason.
If it is for in-house use, should be no big deal. Personally, I'm happier without a dongle to worry over, one less thing to go bang! I still worry over printing when running LW, but that extra 50 quid for a USB dongle would have broken my bank balance. (Yup things really are that tight :().

-EsHrA-
07-25-2003, 07:37 AM
Oooh and by the way i did order my dfx+ deal when it was first announcent. so not the extended deal etc.

I find this unacceptable and we should all be handled equal.


Cheers,

-EsH-

ChrisS
07-25-2003, 07:38 AM
My problem is that I want to be able to run DFX on a seperate computer. To be honest though, I haven't had a chance to see if it will run without a dongle yet.

-EsHrA-
07-25-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by colkai
I may be a little cynical...no wait... I *am* cynical ;)

But I think the 'no dongle' thing may be Eyeon's way of stopping a rush of 2nd hand copies of DFX+ on the market.

I may be wrong, it could be they will despatch dongles to all who have got the deal - but I doubt it. At the very least, it is got to be cheaper for them to have a software locked product than send out a piece of hardware with each copy.

It does mean those of us who ordered later rather than sooner have it locked to LW and cannot sell it on. For me, that's not an issue as I bought the package for personal use, not for any other reason.
If it is for in-house use, should be no big deal. Personally, I'm happier without a dongle to worry over, one less thing to go bang! I still worry over printing when running LW, but that extra 50 quid for a USB dongle would have broken my bank balance. (Yup things really are that tight :().

it is an issue to me because i have 2 computers here all networked. 1 for rendering and 1 for compositing, painting, photoplopping and audio editting.

So i would really like the benefit of installing DFX+ on my compositing computer and not on the one with lw on it....so i can continue work when rendering....


Cheers,

-EsH-

-EsHrA-
07-25-2003, 07:45 AM
aaah you beat me to it ChrisS :)

and nope it wont run without a dongle...


Cheers,

-EsH-



ps. but i do like the videos ! thanx Lee !

ChrisS
07-25-2003, 07:49 AM
That is a bummer.
I too have seperate computers for 3D work and editing etc...

comanche
07-25-2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by TyVole
I work in CG only (no live action.)

I would like to see a tutorial on how DFX+ can improve a CG-only workflow.

I also don't work with live footage atm.

DFX+ can improve your CG output a lot. There's so much you can tweak in post instead doing a bunch of test renders. Even for stills DFX+ is great. Think about this: all the color correction, gain, highlights, glow, blur, masks (hard or soft edged), generally EVERYTHING in DFX+ is non-destructive. Want to play around with blur and filters in Photoshop? Do, undo, redo etc.! In DFX the flow based workflow gives you total control at any time for any tool. Switch effects and filters on and off, compare different results/stages, and do all this without changing/destroying your source image.

I love to work in DFX+. Really.

Cheers,
Andreas

cresshead
07-25-2003, 07:57 AM
same here [i've not bought the update yet...]
i run combustion, premiere, photoplop on my dual sgi upstairs and run lightwave, 3dsmax downstairs on my dell computer...

could we have the option to run digital fusion+ totally NOT tied into lightwave's dongle please...otherwise all you'll be doing is making a few people think about trying to "GET IT TO RUN" without a dongle...which is not a good prospect.

at least give us the choice...or make it plain that the digital fusion+ is TIED to your lightwave dongle BEFORE we purchase so to calm a few people down here....!

cheers

steve g:eek:

Stranahan
07-25-2003, 08:03 AM
My .02...

I'm not 100% sure how the dongle-ing is working. But. You'll really want it running on the same computer with LightWave, because it's all part of the same workflow. I really view it as an extension of LightWave...

Just an opinion...

VirtualFM
07-25-2003, 08:07 AM
Well, I was thinking of upgrading now, specially to make use of the DFX+ deal, but reading that it needs a dongle is really pissing me off.

You see, I still have the old parallel dongle. I don't need anything else (actually I HATE the dongle and think it's just a nuisance that doesn't stop any piracy and just irritates common legal users).

So, in the Newtek-Europe site it states que it REQUIRES a DUO Dongle... :confused:

Why would I want a DUO Dongle? I DON'T NEED that thing I DON'T WANT to pay extra €55 just to be able to use DFX+ So I think that:
a) DFX+ should have it's own dongle or no dongle at all
b) if it really requires a dongle and we MUST have a DUO dongle, the dongle swap should be free.

I will NOT make an upgrade in this conditions. :mad:

ChrisS
07-25-2003, 08:10 AM
Are you saying DFX won't work with a parallel dongle? :confused:
As I said, haven't had a chance to install it yet.


Edit:
No, wait, (I think) I take back that question.
I've read that the copies of DFX that came with dongles came with parallel dongles.

VirtualFM
07-25-2003, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by ChrisS
Are you saying DFX won't work with a parallel dongle? :confused:


I wish it can. If it does work with either a LW parallel dongle or it's own parallel dongle, I will buy it.

But my concern come from reading what is stated in the site:
http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/price/price_e.html

and I quote" Includes Free Download of LightWave [8] upgrade when available. (Requires a USB DUO dongle - DFX+ is Windows only) Offer valid until 31-07-2003."

-EsHrA-
07-25-2003, 08:19 AM
Maybe you are right Lee but that does not justify the differences in packages content between users who shell out exact same money. So i still believe those who did not get a dongle should get one.

I have 2 computers in network so i can get all lw outputs fast to my other comp as if on same comp.
Hows that for workflow....


Cheers,

-EsH-

robinson
07-25-2003, 08:21 AM
OK here are my .02 €...

I ordered the LW/DFX+ deal June 10th from CAI-Systeme in Germany.
The deal was first mentioned on newtek-europe around July 10th, long after the deal was supposed to be over (June 30th).

And there it was first mentioned, no extra dongle included !!!
I need this extra dongle, hey Chuck always said we could sell DFX+ if we don’t want it, I don’t think that will work without any extra dongle, I don’t wanna sell it but I planned to work on a different computer with DFX+ !!!
Hey, there are times when Lightwave is rendering and you need to work with the comp software !!!
The guys at CAI-Systeme don’t know what’s going on with newtek-europe, some of the packages good a dongle some of them don’t !!!

Strange !!!

And by the way I still waiting for my DFX+ copy and I ordered six weeks ago !!!:mad:

ChrisS
07-25-2003, 08:24 AM
Dang!
You still haven't gotten it?:eek:

robinson
07-25-2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by ChrisS
Dang!
You still haven't gotten it?:eek:

NO !!!

and in the meantime DFX+ transformed to some kind of DFX+ light !!! :mad:
Just talked to CAI-Systeme maybe end of next week, damn they said the same two weeks ago !!! :mad:

At the end I will wait about two month for the delivery, I already paid, and I ordering in June because I thought I really need to get this “great” deal before it is over !!!

And damn Newtek I saved this money for my summer vacation (or holyday for the british), and I cancelled that one… :(

policarpo
07-25-2003, 08:37 AM
For what it is worth, the DFX+ deal you get with the LightWave 8 upgrade, is locked to your existing LightWave 7.5 dongle.

So, where ever your dongle goes, DFX+ can go.


:D

Stranahan
07-25-2003, 08:46 AM
And you SO want a duo dongle..it's so much better, seriously. Just the USB nature of it....

This is an amazing deal. If you don't buy it, you're missing out. I mean that. I find it really silly, personally, to not buy into it over another 60 Euros for a dongle that's a lot better. But no one is going to force you - just buy LightWave[8], and then make sure not to use DFX+ on principle.

Don't look a gift compositing workhorse in the mouth...

robinson
07-25-2003, 08:53 AM
Oh hey Poli, :D

so I guess the dstorm LwsnC plugin again saved my a.. ???

Stranahan are you talking to me ? :confused:

I know it’s an amazing deal, but the dongle issue (The DFX + will be keyed to the LightWave dongle) was first mentioned about four weeks after my purchase and you know the funny thing, I already bought an extra computer for compositing…
So I really need an extra dongle !!!:(

TyVole
07-25-2003, 09:17 AM
I wondering if a DFX+ user can briefly explain their workflow between LW, DFX+, and a NLE.

Or do you even need an NLE?

Stranahan
07-25-2003, 09:24 AM
You'd use the NLE for editing - in theory, you COULD sort kinda edit in DFX, but it's not what it's made for..

VirtualFM
07-25-2003, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Stranahan
And you SO want a duo dongle..it's so much better, seriously. Just the USB nature of it....

Well, I don't care a bit about the dongle. What is the dongle there for? For copy-protection, right? So, it's an artifact for benefit of Newtek. I don't care about it, it doesn't benefit me in any way (it's actually just adding to the power consuming of the pc), I don't want it. When I bought Lightwave I bought the expertise of Stuart and Allen, I bought a tool which happened to come with that piece of nuisance, not a little gadget that happened to come with some software too.

I just want to use the software I invested my money in. If they (Newtek) want to change their 'protection' scheme, it's not my business. The dongle swap should be *FREE*. Period.


Originally posted by Stranahan
This is an amazing deal. If you don't buy it, you're missing out.

Of course it's an amazing deal! That's why I am interested in it. But now if there are a ton of nuisances involved and deal changing in the middle then I have the right to be mad, haven't I?!


Originally posted by Stranahan
I find it really silly, personally, to not buy into it over another 60 Euros for a dongle that's a lot better. But no one is going to force you - just buy LightWave[8], and then make sure not to use DFX+ on principle.


What is silly is to spend €60 Euros for something I have no use to. And you say 'it's a lot better'... better than what?! Than having no dongle?!

Oh, and just for the record... with €60 I can buy food for 3 weeks, even four, with a little stretch. A month of food. I will not starve for a month to buy something I don't need.

Doug Nicola
07-25-2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by policarpo
For what it is worth, the DFX+ deal you get with the LightWave 8 upgrade, is locked to your existing LightWave 7.5 dongle.


Fow what it's worth, I think that's kind of lame. People are paying the same price (or more?), and have ordered the deal when it was originally offered, and they are not getting the same deal as others got?

My DFX+ dongle allows me to work on a separate computer from LW. I have two computers, and if LW is rendering on my faster one, I can still work and render with DFX+ on my slower one and get good speed. This is quite handy.

But now, for unexplained reasons, the dongle-thing has been changed.

Personally I would recommend you contact eyeon and ask for an independent DFX+ dongle.

Doug Nicola
07-25-2003, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by robinson
And there I it was first mentioned, no extra dongle included !!!
I need this extra dongle, hey Chuck always said we could sell DFX+ if we don’t want it, I don’t think that will work without any extra dongle, I don’t wanna sell it but I planned to work on a different computer with DFX+ !!!

This is true. Chuck owes the users a good explanation.

policarpo
07-25-2003, 09:56 AM
Well...

hrmmm....

okay.

complain complain complain.

if you need to run DFX+ on another computer, just pull out the USB dongle while layout is rendering and you can walk over to the other machine, stick it in and run LightWave and DFX+ just fine.

The nature of USB is that it is hot swappable.

I don't see what he problem is.

I do this all the time with my MAC and PC. But wait...maybe Eyeon should give me more money back since i can't use DFX+ on OSX...complain complain complain...

Hey NewTek...you should only offer the deal to people who actually realize the benefit of the deal and deny entry to the great wonderful world of compositing to all those who just want to moan about it. :p

Get a grip people. And stop kicking the gift horse in the mouth.

Roundpixel
07-25-2003, 09:58 AM
I just can´t believe what i´m reading.
Who owes an explanation to who? and for what reason? Why should anyone at NT or Eyeon owe you an explanation for giving away an amazing present?

You are upgrading LW (at the usual cost) and they are giving you "for FREE" one of the best compositors in the industry, and you are asking for an explanation?

Come on guys
JC

-EsHrA-
07-25-2003, 10:10 AM
its about the principal, all customers should be treated equal.

i for one still want my dongle for dfx+ or swap my existing lw dongle to usb dongle at no cost.



Cheers,

-EsH-

Doug Nicola
07-25-2003, 10:14 AM
Believe me, I know this is an amazing deal. I've done my best to make sure everyone else around here knows it, too.

It's just that, when this deal started, many many people had questions about what they would do if they didn't want to keep DFX+, for whatever reason. And Chuck quite clearly assured them, paraphrasing: "hey, no problem, you can sell it if you don't need it or decide you don't like it. It is independent software" That was a VERY clear understanding given to these people. And it looks like people might also have based expensive purchase decisions on this "independent" claim for DFX+.

And then it turns out, with no explanation, not to be the case.

Any questions on how this might make some people mad?

sailor
07-25-2003, 10:16 AM
i agree...is more of a matter of principal and sales ethics period...eventhough i think VirtualFM is overreacting a little bit :) every costumer should have the same treatment...and i'm pretty sure that NT or Eyeon could solve this easily with a little effort no?

peace

policarpo
07-25-2003, 10:20 AM
Principle? Give me a break. It is not out of principle that some are complaining...if it were out of principle they would understand the nature of business and special deals.

The early bird catches the worm, and those who got in early to the deal got the benefit. Things have changed. We still have the great deal, but it has been modified slightly.

I can still use DFX+ on my other machines with my LW dongle, so I don't see it as an issue.

I guess people are never happy when they are being given a great offer. Some always want to haggle and moan no matter what.

Even if you had a separate dongle, you guys would be complaining that eyeon only gave you one that fit in your parallel port.

Oh well...

All of this should be handled in a different thread, cause this one was about the cool videos we'll soon have access to so we can all learn DFX+.

:D

Roundpixel
07-25-2003, 10:22 AM
Actually i don´t remember anyone stating clearly that this was to be independent from LW (could have missed that post though) but just the opposite. I had quite clear that DFX was going to be tied to LW´s dongle.

I find all this complaining quite childish. Those expensive purchasing decisions is something i don´t either understand. It could be expensive for a hobbyist, not for a pro, and even then as a hobbyist, anyone who might actually have two computers, why would they get mad at this? A hobbyist is not loosing money for that, they are supposedly not making money out of it.

JC

robinson
07-25-2003, 10:31 AM
Hey Poli,

I wasn’t flaming or whatever, but you need to admit that they never mentioned that the DFX+ dongle is keyed to the Lightwave dongle, they really mentioned it the first time around July 10th on newtek-europe !
Sure this deal is crazy !!!
I still don’t know what kind of DFX+ package I will receive, with or without dongle, because I’m still waiting.
Sorry but even my reseller (CAI-SYSTEME) is confused, they received packages with and without dongle !!!

Policarpo quote “So, where ever your dongle goes, DFX+ can go.”

That’s great when you are own your own, really it’s even better with just one dongle, if you got a laptop you can go to clients, the computer at home is rendering with LwsnC (dstorm) plugin and so on………..

The deal just works perfect for a single user, even with two computers, not for a firm or two people, and that’s exactly my problem, I bought an extra computer for somebody else !!!
I’m starting my small little firm over here, so keep the fingers crossed !!!

And sorry I didn’t thank you the first time for the DFX+ video tutorials Lee, very basic but GREAT, hope you can make some advanced stuff too or do you know where I can get advanced stuff, there are not to many books about compositing out there !!!

Sorry again for the complaining but I really just want to know how this deal really works !!!

edit: I was an early bird so maybe I will receive my extra DFX+ dongle and I'm happy !:confused:

Doug Nicola
07-25-2003, 10:32 AM
It was made clear that "DFX+ independent" would be the case, when this whole deal started. And people were speculating about DFX+ flooding eBay. Personally, I thought that would never happen, as it was clear this was amazing software.

Actually, being honest and consistent is usually considered a pretty good business principle. Sometimes more "slick" companies do things that are blatantly dishonest (like Maya's bait and switch), but then people are hoodwinked by the flash.

NT is basing a great deal of it's reputation on being down to earth and fun, while offering amazing deals and great value.

People like me love that, but we do take it as being real and not a gimmick. I strongly believe it is real.

And that is the only thing I'm discussing here. Being real and being honest. Things have to happen all the time for "business reasons." That's plenty obvious, too.

But a tiny bit of explanation for going back on something that was clearly stated would be helpful, it seems.

ChrisS
07-25-2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by Roundpixel
Actually i don´t remember anyone stating clearly that this was to be independent from LW (could have missed that post though) but just the opposite. I had quite clear that DFX was going to be tied to LW´s dongle.

I find all this complaining quite childish. Those expensive purchasing decisions is something i don´t either understand. It could be expensive for a hobbyist, not for a pro, and even then as a hobbyist, anyone who might actually have two computers, why would they get mad at this? A hobbyist is not loosing money for that, they are supposedly not making money out of it.

JC

Actually, Chuck did say that those who didn't want DFX could sell it, and that was a selling point for some. That's who might be owed an explaination.

Not really sure I follow the logic your hobbyist vs. pro analogy. I do freelance work. Not everybody who makes a buck or two with LightWave has Pixar's budget.

Either way, I wasn't complaining; it's a sweet deal any way you look at it. I was just dissapointed to find out that I can't use the two programs on seperate computers. Maybe while LW is rendering you can switch the dongle, but can you switch dongles while actually working in both programs? If I were to have a second person working with me on a project, the ability to work in both at the same time would be beneficial. That's all.

TyVole
07-25-2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by policarpo

if you need to run DFX+ on another computer, just pull out the USB dongle while layout is rendering and you can walk over to the other machine, stick it in and run LightWave and DFX+ just fine.



I believe, in another thread, Newtek expressly stated that this is a violation of the software agreement and not allowed.

Roundpixel
07-25-2003, 10:42 AM
If i´m wrong in something of this, i´d like to be corrected.

I recall a post from an Eyeon rep explaining the reasons for those early independent versions, something that i guess everyone now knows.
So from the beginning it was only intended to be tied to LW´s dongle. As the agreement was signed within days of the offer´s starting date, eyeon didn´t have ready the tied versions for the early birds, and so sent some independent versions, instead of having people waiting unnecesarily until new versions got readied.

It seems logical to me. I have a tied version.
I wouldn´t base my purchasing decisions in a gift if i were starting a small studio. I´d take it as a plus.

JC

TyVole
07-25-2003, 10:42 AM
Another potential issue with the dongle is that if -- in the future -- you want to sell you LW license, you would also have to sell DFX+ as well.

On the other hand, I already have two dongles and wouldn't be so keen on a third.

Back to the first hand, if the LW dongle broke (something I live in perpetual fear of), you wouldn't be able to use DFX+ either.

So, there are pluses and minuses -- it's all pretty subjective.

policarpo
07-25-2003, 10:45 AM
Well now...

Ho hum....hrmm.....hrmm...

If you need another seat then buy another seat.

Yeah sure it would be neat to have DFX+ with it's own dongle, but the deal has changed. It isn't a bait and switch. It just makes practical business sense. You tie the app to the dongle because of the deal.

You can go and buy another seat for $995 (the Siggraph deal eyeon had last year i believe) with it's own dongle so you can have 2 seats actually. Which makes more sense if you are working with someone else...that way everyone can work on the same project.

Maybe NT just needs to write a formal letter explaining the changes in the deal.

Would that satisfy everyone.

Yeesh...

sorry again Lee, but these people keep bringing this thread down.

I thought it was about the cool videos we were going to have access to?

Also, Robinson, the DFX+ box will have a DVD worth of training content on it as well.

:)

Roundpixel
07-25-2003, 10:48 AM
Regarding that DVD, (i just haven´t looked at it), what´s the difference, if any, from the Courseware material in the CD program and that on the DVD?

JC

Earl
07-25-2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Stranahan
Earl,

I'm not going to comment on whether docs will be included, because I feel that it's still up in the air.

NP Lee! It's really a minor detail anyway. Man, do you ever get any sleep?

errr, I guess that 'NP' was supposed to be 'No problem' - sometimes I let the acronyms slip!

policarpo
07-25-2003, 10:49 AM
the courseware content is on the DVD along with several other movies....cool stuff...

Roundpixel
07-25-2003, 10:51 AM
But there´s also a Courseware folder on the CD, with footage, docs and flows. Are those different then? Maybe higher res footage on the DVD?

thanks
JC

policarpo
07-25-2003, 10:53 AM
i have the DVD at home...but i remember that there were a lot of training movies on the DVD that were different from the courseware content....

Roundpixel
07-25-2003, 10:54 AM
OK, i´ll check tonite, thanks

JC

policarpo
07-25-2003, 10:57 AM
no problem.

i can't wait to see the new vids though since they are relevant to us LW users. :)

Thanks again Lee!

I feel the LOVE!!!!

ChrisS
07-25-2003, 11:03 AM
I'm sorry if the satement of my opinion was misconstrued as a complaint. That wasn't my intention.

Anyway, I got into this thread late by jumping to the last page.
Thanks to Lee for the cool tut videos!

robinson
07-25-2003, 11:09 AM
Policarpo quote:
If you need another seat then buy another seat.

That’s what I was trying to avoid !!! :D
No money over here !!! :(
I heard about the DVD and I really can’t wait to see it, but I’m still waiting for my copy of DFX+.

And I need to agree Newtek should say something, seriously even my reseller doesn’t know what’s going on, they just get complains from customers about the dongle issue and when is DFX+ shipping…
Thanks for your effort Lee, and sorry for all the whining …:)

Andy_D
07-25-2003, 11:21 AM
Umm, back to my question....
When does this deal expire?, I just checked SafeHarbor and they don`t have the 7.5 to 8+DFX deal anywhere.
This is a fantastic deal, and thanks for the great tutorials Lee.

Andy

takkun
07-25-2003, 11:32 AM
LOL! This is too funny! I was happy when I found out that my DFX+ didn't come with a dongle, I'd hate to have another dongle hanging off the back of my computer, especially a parallel port dongle, euck! I never would have imagined that people would be demanding a dongle so they could sell it on Ebay. :rolleyes: Don't waste your time, this deal wasn't ever a "get free money" deal (but I'm betting that Chuck wishes that he never mentioned that you could sell it for more).

Get it for the amazing program it is and NOT for some "get free money" scheme. Geez.

Doug Nicola
07-25-2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by takkun
I never would have imagined that people would be demanding a dongle so they could sell it on Ebay. :rolleyes:


Don't think that's what's happening here....



Don't waste your time, this deal wasn't ever a "get free money" deal (but I'm betting that Chuck wishes that he never mentioned that you could sell it for more).
[/B]

Problem is, Chuck's not just some doofy guy, like me. He represents NewTek policy here.



Get it for the amazing program it is and NOT for some "get free money" scheme. Geez. [/B]

Read the thread. No one around here is talking about this. We're all talking about business finesse and cool new videos! :D

cresshead
07-25-2003, 12:20 PM
hi there,

i'd just like to add a small observation.

many times in reading these posts i've seen the phrase "it's a gift"...

could someone then please coment on why there's two prices for lightwave 7.5 if it's a gift!

new seats of lightwave

lightwave 7.5 with "free" digital fusion + is:
£1,055.00 +VAT (£1,100.00 RRP)
£1,239.63 inc VAT


lightwave 7.5 with "free" 5 dvd's taining discs is:
£650.00 +VAT (£699.00 RRP)
£763.75 inc VAT


upgrade's to 8 from lightwave 7.5

lightwave7.5 upgrade to 8 with free digital fusion+
£335.00 +VAT (£345.00 RRP)
£393.63 inc VAT

or
lightwave7.5 upgrade to 8 with 5 dvd training discs
£335.00 +VAT (£345.00 RRP)
£393.63 inc VAT

i'd also like to see an upgrade to lightwave 8 from 7.5
offered...whereby you get the box and manuals..rather than
a huge electronic download.
i wonder how much that would be?

just to note also there is the option to upgrade from the full new seat of 7.5 and the 5 disc dvd bundle to also get digital fusion+
£535.00 +VAT (£549.00 RRP)
£628.63 inc VAT

i'm not trying to sour these deals, they are all most welcome and i only spotted the upgrade and get the 5 dvd's today..so i think that's a new twist, one which i'll think about quite a bit as i already have combustion 1 & 2 and seeing as i couldn't sell digital fusion with this change of the dongle stance it's a pretty dead reasone to get the digital fusion deal now for me personally.

i would still like the choice, even with a small increase in prce of an independent digital fusion+...even if it were £50 more to cover the cost of the dongle..just so that i have options to take it out on location shoots without risking my lightwave dongle..or my combustion dongle...that's where i could really see me using fusion currently.

cheers n looking forward to more news on lightwave 8.

steve g

steve g

takkun
07-25-2003, 12:25 PM
Problem is, Chuck's not just some doofy guy, like me. He represents NewTek policy here. Last time I checked, he was human. Humans make mistakes. Unless he was replaced by ChuckBot 3000.;)
Read the thread. No one around here is talking about this. We're all talking about business finesse and cool new videos! Well I just skimmed through the thread and the impression that I got was that people were whining because they don't ship it with a dongle anymore. And the dongle issue would only matter if you wanted to sell it, as many people pointed out it's easy to transport the duo dongle and use DFX+ on another computer even though it makes no sense to do so as it would inhibit the workflow to put LW and DFX+ on seperate machines.

Stranahan
07-25-2003, 12:39 PM
There's an explanation, and I'll post it soon.

I spent two hours in the shop with car this AM, and it's halfway through the day. I need to get some stuff down before things close.

I understand the problem here, and I'll explain's going on in more details later, promise. Til then, love one another.

Philipp
07-25-2003, 03:29 PM
BTW I checked this DVD with the training material, boy is that of a bad quality, it's filmed from the monitor, it's not very sharp and the voice is sometimes broken, so Lee, I think they should incorporate your videos, they are surely better.

@policarpo: Sometimes you are quite funny, can it be that you're so loyal towards NT that everything is always pink and rosa for you?? A deal is a deal is a deal, even if it's a great deal, but all those mac users who have bought the bundle because chuck told them, they could sell their DFX+ are left in the rain, as are all the people who wanted to work on two machines, without having to pull the dongle on and off. My second pc hasn't it's usb port at the front, but hided on the backside under the desk. And there might be a lot of more reasons why it would have been cool to be able to have LW and DFX+ work independently. You shouldn't flame the guys from which I am one, who bought the bundle with other working habits in mind. Please stay open minded and fair.
If Chuck made a mistake, well that's human, but some mistakes shouldn't happen and some mistakes cost money. BTW I ordered the upgrade bundle very early directly from CAI in Germany, but I waited more than a month to actually receive the sw and so your arguments that those who have ordered very soon receive the BIG package and those who wait too long receive the little one is nonsense. Please take off your pink glasses, see reality.

bybe now, am off now for a long and hopefully sunny weekend at the beach, so I'll only able to read you flames on monday.

robinson
07-25-2003, 03:49 PM
Philipp

Echt die haben bei dir schon geliefert ???
Ich warte immer noch ! Aber recht hast du, hehe !!!
Und extra dongle dabei ???

ghopper
07-25-2003, 04:32 PM
just got LW/DFX+ package today.

Lee, looking forward to see more of your videos soon ;), cause they are much better than the ones shipped on the DFX+ DVD.



Originally posted by policarpo
i have the DVD at home...but i remember that there were a lot of training movies on the DVD that were different from the courseware content....

The DVD contains 8 quickstart videos, courseware PDF and courseware footage. So no extra tutorials Policarpo was speaking of.

Is it because it's DFX+ and not DF4 ?

Or am I just misunderstanding something ?

Psyhke
07-25-2003, 07:22 PM
robinson, your avatar is making me hungry.

robinson
07-25-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Psyhke
robinson, your avatar is making me hungry.

Here you go Psyhke !!!:D

Recipes for the Berlin Currywurst !!!
http://www.thehouseatthebridge.com/TravelInfo/CurryWurst.html
http://maindish.allrecipes.com/AZ/GrmnCrrywrst.asp

It’s the typical Berlin (German) fast food crap, I really wouldn’t recommend this stuff, these pictures just look tooooooooooooooo stupid, I just thought that would be a funny avatar.

Psyhke
07-25-2003, 07:40 PM
Hehe. So that's what that is. :D All I saw was what looked like fries and something covered in something like ketchup. Probably just stood out because I haven't eaten a thing in about 24 hours. Even tomato sauce covered brats with curry would be good right now.

robinson
07-25-2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Psyhke
Probably just stood out because I haven't eaten a thing in about 24 hours. Even tomato sauce covered brats with curry would be good right now.
Damn, then get your daily crap, I know the States, there is junk food on every corner !!! :rolleyes:
So you better get a full stomach, and then get back to work, ops I meant Lightwave, and btw is there any difference ???:D

Psyhke
07-25-2003, 08:18 PM
Way ahead of ya. Already got my McDonald's quasi-food. Your grease-plate put me in the mood. :)

LW? Work? Well, I don't know, but speculation on Lightwave could be a full time job these days.

Earl
07-25-2003, 10:49 PM
Thanks to this extended deal, my order for the LW 8 upgrade w/ DFX+ has just been put in.

Now to go sit in the parking lot and wait for the UPS truck to arrive... anyone care to join me? :D

ghopper
07-25-2003, 11:25 PM
Lee, just been watching the rest of your DFX+ movies. I really like the way you're teaching. Especially PSD_Saving and AnimateText were interesting.

thanks again

Stranahan
07-25-2003, 11:51 PM
Thanks much - more to come as well...

MHendry
07-26-2003, 12:04 AM
Lee, where are the rest of your movies? I have only seen the intro and the fog movies. There are more?
Thanks, M

Andy_D
07-26-2003, 12:24 AM
The DFX+ movies are here:

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/eyeon/

Andy

Hervé
07-26-2003, 12:28 AM
In the early pages I've asked a stupid & simple;)

How long is this deal going to stay..... ?


Hervé:confused:

Hervé
07-26-2003, 12:35 AM
Huh ??? 15 september...? ok , thanks....

MHendry
07-26-2003, 01:09 AM
Thanks Andy:)

Andy_D
07-26-2003, 06:39 AM
Your welcome :)

eggy
07-26-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Stranahan
There's an explanation, and I'll post it soon.

I spent two hours in the shop with car this AM, and it's halfway through the day. I need to get some stuff down before things close.

I understand the problem here, and I'll explain's going on in more details later, promise. Til then, love one another.

Hey Lee, any new developments ?
Just heard a guy at cgtalk saying this !!!

Quote:

I got my order a few days ago, but I didnt already own lightwave so I got the $1595 deal from keyframe I recieved both a lightwave and DFX+ box with their own dongles.

Hope there is an explanation some day !!! Hey no flaming over here too, just confused too !!!
:confused:

A Mejias
07-26-2003, 05:13 PM
Lee,

What is the new extension date? I want to order it, but I want to wait a bit so it will show up on my next cc bill. Grace period baby!

Thanks for the New videos! BTW, I think I still have your Into to LW video buried somewhere around here. The one where you show how to make a flying logo and make the spaceships fly around. I think that was back in LW 4.

/.\\
A Mejias



Originally posted by Stranahan
We're pre-announcing that we're going to be announcing the extension of the DFX+ deal.

That means you'll still be able to buy LightWave 8 - a full version or an upgrade - and get eyeon's amazing DFX+ compositing package, plus modules 1 and 4 which give you 3D and visual effects tools....
.
.
...
I really hope all of you learn something from the videos, and take advantage of this amazing offer. I consider eyeon's products part of my LightWave workflow, and this bundle allows more people then ever before a chance to make their work better, easier, and more flexible.

Amadeus0
07-26-2003, 10:43 PM
Lee, just wanted to say that I downloaded all 7 of your tutorials, and watched them last night.

Great work.

Thank you for them.

Hervé
07-27-2003, 01:07 AM
...15 sept...... (extended deal) but I already said so.... read the posts....

pauland
07-27-2003, 05:30 AM
Regarding the dongle issue. I recently received (27th July) a mail from Newtek Europe:

"Pre-order now your LightWave 3D [8] upgrade and immediately get a full version of DFX+ including modules 1 & 4 (worth more than 1000 GBP) for a total of only 345 GBP + VAT. "

It might be argued that "a full version of DFX+ including modules 1 & 4" might lead to an expectation that what I would get would be the same as what I would get if I just ordered DFX+ modules 1 and 4 directly from Eyon. this is clearly not the case if dongles are supplied by Eyon, but not via the Newtek deal.

I'm not sure what the dongle-less motivation is money saving - to save the cost of a dongle, or to permamently bond the purchase to the LW licence.

Whatever is the reason, Newtek should make things crystal clear what the exact deal is, and understand the deal that people (including me) are getting isn't what they were led to beleive when they made the purchasing decision.

The current deal (with or without dongle) is a great offer, don't get me wrong. I have an Eyon box right next to me. I'm not sure if I should open it until this thing works itself out.

Paul

Stranahan
07-27-2003, 06:03 AM
Quick explanation before I get on a plane...It's before 7am and I'm groggy so bear with me

It's a money issue.

The dongle is the single most expensive element of the LightWave package and there cost more than you'd think. In order for this deal to make sense financially from NewTek and eyeon's POV, the idea was to tie DFX+ to the LW dongle.

This idea wasn't done immediately, nor was it made clear to people inside NewTek. Speaking for myself, I didn't know about it until a couple of weeks ago and while I'm not inside NewTek I have been fairly close to the deal.

When I heard about it, I didn't think a thing about it. Made sense to me, and frankly I'd prefer it for my own setup. (Please don't offer to trade - I have full Fusion, thankyouverymuch, and a bunch of plugs - but I don't like 2 dongles for LW + Fusion.)

Problem was - this couldn't be done immediately, so intial copies had two dongles. Newer copies are integrated. So - trades, maybe? I don't have a real solution expect to say what the deal is now.

I won't get into the semantics of how the deal was pitched. I doubt Chuck knew about the dongle. I understand everyone's point. I'm just explaining. Cheers.

Chuck
07-27-2003, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by takkun
LOL! This is too funny! I was happy when I found out that my DFX+ didn't come with a dongle, I'd hate to have another dongle hanging off the back of my computer, especially a parallel port dongle, euck! I never would have imagined that people would be demanding a dongle so they could sell it on Ebay. :rolleyes: Don't waste your time, this deal wasn't ever a "get free money" deal (but I'm betting that Chuck wishes that he never mentioned that you could sell it for more).

That would be right! Apologies, folks...
:(

Definitely one of those "what was I thinking!" moments, there ... :confused:


And I wasn't aware until after the change was made that the deal was going to be shipping with DFX+ using the LW dongle.


Get it for the amazing program it is and NOT for some "get free money" scheme. Geez.

Exactly right. Completely and absolutely right.

Chuck
07-27-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by Doug Nicola
This is true. Chuck owes the users a good explanation.

I wasn't aware that the intent was to ship the bundle tied to the LW dongle, that simple. Apparently that wasn't ready when we started shipping the bundle, and then when the capability was ready, bundles from that point onward shipped without the DFX+ dongle.

As for the "you can sell it", my apologies, that was a wrong response to the folks who were not seeing a value in the offer. The value is having a great professional compositing tool, pure and simple. I've already said as much since, several times.

Chuck
07-27-2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Doug Nicola

Problem is, Chuck's not just some doofy guy, like me. He represents NewTek policy here.


You're not doofy, Doug, but I'm not sure about that Chuck guy. ;)

Chuck
07-27-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by -EsHrA-
If Chuck states we would get a version we could sell, we all should have our dongles sent to us at no costs.

I WANT MY DONGLE !!!


Cheers,

-EsH-

My apologies, but my suggestion to folks who were unable to see a value in the offer that one option was resale value was simply an off the cuff answer and a wrong-headed one at that. The only reason to purchase is if you want the professional compositing capabilities that DFX+ offers. I somehow missed being aware that the plan for the special was always to have shipped DFX+ capable of using the LW dongle. The capability was not ready when the offer was first shipping, and when it was, then the product began shipping that way. Again, my apologies for not being aware of this information when making my responses early on during the time of the offer.

KillMe
07-27-2003, 10:59 AM
jsut a question on dongles - why bother with them? if they are expensive as you say why not jstu use software protection its not as if they acaully do prevent people from using it illegally anyway - with abit more work on the software side you might infact make it harder for people to crack the software

-EsHrA-
07-27-2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Chuck
My apologies, but my suggestion to folks who were unable to see a value in the offer that one option was resale value was simply an off the cuff answer and a wrong-headed one at that. The only reason to purchase is if you want the professional compositing capabilities that DFX+ offers. I somehow missed being aware that the plan for the special was always to have shipped DFX+ capable of using the LW dongle. The capability was not ready when the offer was first shipping, and when it was, then the product began shipping that way. Again, my apologies for not being aware of this information when making my responses early on during the time of the offer.

Hi Chuck, apologies accepted but i really thought i was getting the dongle as some other buyers who did get a dongle and i wanted it to run on another computer.
When i received my package after a month i thought they made a mistake and forgot the dongle because i never heard before that it would be tied to the lw dongle.
So no full standalone version just a OEM one...
Im seeying the capabilities of this offer obviously and i was not planning to sell dfx+ but USE it.....be it on another comp so i can render and work (composit) at the same time. now i cant...
so....a dongle for me would be still very usefull IMHO.



Cheers,

-EsH-

Psyhke
07-27-2003, 11:45 AM
Is there any possibility of purchasing a separate dongle from Eyeon?

(PS I am also very happy with DFX+, just wondering in case I ever want to set it up on a separate machine, as EsHrA points out).

eggy
07-27-2003, 03:51 PM
So chuck you made a mistake, damn I guess that’s human, respect that you even admit it !!! :D

But is there a way that I can get an extra dongle ?
You know I already bought an extra computer just for compositing (for DFX+) because I thought sure I will receive an extra dongle, and I hope you understand I need this extra dongle !!!

Sorry for all the trouble, maybe we should start a “trading forum” at this board, some people just want one dongle and received an extra one !!! Just a thought !
Hope I will receive my DFX+ package some day, I ordered June 10th and already paid before June 15th, damn I’m stupid !!!
Hope you guys at Newtek really use this money for the future development in Lightwave, really locking forward for LW 8, the previews look great so far.
Damn and I will definitely watch the streaming !!!

See you
eggy

And sorry for the trouble again, but you know, we the users, own you guys in some kind of way !!!

Earl
07-27-2003, 03:54 PM
Quick question:
I own LightWave 7.5. I'm still using my old parallel dongle from version 5.0 (been upgradin' since). I ordered the upgrade to 8.0 with the DFX+ bundle. Will my DFX+ be keyed to my existing parallel dongle? Or will I get a new USB dongle with both LW 8.0 and DFX+ keyed to it? If so, how does it work, do I ship my existing dongle back to NewTek after I receive the USB dongle?

ALSO! Ohh, now this is a biggie: If my parallel dongle is traded in for a USB dongle, can I still run LightWave version 5.0 with the USB dongle? Or will it be confused and not be able to find it (since it would be looking for a parallel). I'd love to know...cause I do honestly still open up 5.0.

cagey5
07-27-2003, 04:02 PM
Hi Earl

I'm guessing you won't be getting a new USB dongle because you would have had to order that specific package, i.e. a dongle swap upgade to duo dongle and you would have sent in your old one as part of the deal.

So it sounds like you'll get a package without any dongle included and it'll run just fine on your existing parallel port, as will DFX.

robinson
07-27-2003, 05:01 PM
Exactly the same over here eggy !
I’m still waiting for DFX+ so maybe I’m lucky and receive an extra dongle, damn I really need this extra dongle Chuck, I don’t wanna sell DFX+, hey I’m not stupid, but there is an extra workstation waiting for DFX+ and I really can't afford an extra DF copy, sorry start up “company” over here, !!!
We will see, looking forward on LW 8 too, hehe !!!

TyVole
07-27-2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by eggy
Hope I will receive my DFX+ package some day, I ordered June 10th and already paid before June 15th, damn I’m stupid !!!


If you paid with a credit card, it is unethical (and perhaps illegal) for the company from which you purchased the product to charge it prior to shipping such product. Contact you credit card company and they will tell you this.

Earl
07-27-2003, 09:40 PM
I hope that's the case Cagey. That way there are less delays. And I can always switch out to a USB dongle if I need to.

But does anyone happen to know if the USB dongles can run earlier versions (5.0, etc)?

wacom
07-27-2003, 10:33 PM
Well I don't know about it being an advantage to be strapped down to one machine. Eyeon even made DF able to handle frames as they come into the pipe- as they are rendered. AKA a diffrent computer can render out frames and DF will wait for those frames to come down the pipe before going on to the next frame. This is so you can have large renders, and flows and leave them alone while you spend time with "things" like people or more likely go and work on another machine. The wait option can be used for any footage for a loader. It's almost useless though if you have to run it on one machine- slowing everything down in LW!

I feel sorry for the people who have to use a dou-dongala or what ever it's going to be- as they will not be able to take full advantage of this great feature.:mad:

Earl
07-28-2003, 12:04 AM
Well, considering that DFX+ is free with LW, I don't think the dongle keying should really be given this much attention. If anyone wants to have a separate dongle, they can always pretend that it doesn't even come with LW and just buy a new license of DFX or DF out of their own pocket. NewTek did what they could to make this deal a possibility - and if that means cutting the corner on an extra dongle, then I'm GLAD THEY DID IT.

colkai
07-28-2003, 02:29 AM
Cagey,
Are you running a parallel dongle?
The newtek Europe site does specifically state that a USB duo dongle is needed for the DFX/LW combo. No word from Chuck or Lee on this yet either.
Mind you - NT Europe has been known to be out of step on more than one occasion ;)

If I DO need a USB, I'll have to get onto 'one-video' sharpish, but if I can avoid the outlay, I will (tough month again :( )

-Colkai

Limbus
07-28-2003, 02:48 AM
Maybe it is possible to provide the DFX+ dongle to the people who need it for an extra charge?

Florian

marc
07-28-2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by colkai
The newtek Europe site does specifically state that a USB duo dongle is needed for the DFX/LW combo. No word from Chuck or Lee on this yet either.

I sent NTE an email to find out about this. Here's what Mrs. Gouja answered:

"I confirm that you can purchase the LightWave 3d [7.5] and DFX+ upgrade at 495 Euro ex VAT until the 31st July 2003 without exchanging your parallel dongle. However, if you want to work on Mac/Windows, you have also to purchase a USB dongle at 55 Euro ex VAT."

To me that sounds like I don't have to worry about my parallel one.

Marc

colkai
07-28-2003, 04:58 AM
Yeah,
Worded like that it sounds as if the duo is only needed if you're swapping between Win/MAC - which makes sense naturally! ;)

That's a relief!

A Mejias
07-28-2003, 05:53 AM
Lee, Chuck,

Is September 15, 2003 the official deal extension date? Will the new date be posted on the site?

Thanks,
/.\\
A Mejias



Originally posted by Hervé
...15 sept...... (extended deal) but I already said so.... read the posts....

pauland
07-28-2003, 05:57 AM
http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/dfxoffer/dfx_uk.html

A Mejias
07-28-2003, 06:11 AM
Paul,

Thanks for the link! The "deal" is not as clear on the US site.

"...or early 2004" hmmm.

/.\\
A Mejias




Originally posted by pauland
http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/dfxoffer/dfx_uk.html

colkai
07-28-2003, 06:35 AM
Just re-read that,
For some reason, I thought DFX+ came with modules 1 - 4, not 1 & 4.

Hmm...time I got my eyes tested again ;) ..Or it could just be my age :p

ChrisS
07-28-2003, 07:17 AM
FYI - Parallel Dongle and DFX

I installed DFX this weekend (very cool). I've been using a Parallel dongle for LightWave since 5.0 and DFX works just fine with it. You just need to upgrade the Sentinel drivers if you're running too old a version. DFX wouldn't start for me until I upgraded with the drivers that come on the 7.5 CD.

BTW, is the courseware DVD able to be read in a regular DVD player, or does it require a computer based DVD drive?

eggy
07-28-2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Limbus
provide the DFX+ dongle to the people who need it for an extra charge?

Florian

Sorry no way Limbus, :mad:

I bought a full DFX+ seat and I want this promised full seat not DFX+ light.
Sure it is a great deal, but deal is deal and if Chuck or Newtek made a mistake, sorry they need to pay for the extra dongle.
I Invested money in extra hardware just because of this deal and I will not Invest in another dongle just because they thought they can change the deal, you need to treat all customers the same way Chuck.

Roundpixel
07-28-2003, 08:32 AM
DFX Lite? What are you talking about?

I got DFX+ Full along my LW upgrade (which i´m sure it´s what you got), and i also requested a dongle upgrade, which i also paid. Everything is stated properly if you just take time to read in the proper places, and not use the forums as marketing departments.

I´m getting a bit tired of all this whinning. You want me to pay you for the dongle upgrade? Would you like to have DF4 instead?

All you know that those who had a word on this has already said it, and apologies have been asked where required (i disagree they were needed, though)

"getting mad" JC :mad:

eggy
07-28-2003, 09:06 AM
DFX Lite? What are you talking about?

Oh it’s DFX+ light in my eyes if you can’t use it on a separately computer !
Sure the same feature list but you can’t really work on both programs at the same time.

I got DFX+ Full along my LW upgrade (which i´m sure it´s what you got), and i also requested a dongle upgrade, which i also paid. Everything is stated properly if you just take time to read in the proper places, and not use the forums as marketing departments.

In your case the dongle upgrade is a little bit different, I already own 7.5 with a usb dongle so I don’t need a different dongle for Lightwave.
Where is anything stated properly ?
I never used any forum for marketing issues, Newtek is and that’s OK too

I´m getting a bit tired of all this whinning. You want me to pay you for the dongle upgrade? Would you like to have DF4 instead?

If you are getting tired about that topic, why do you post your opinion on this topic ?

I said it before it is still agreat deal, but damn I need this f... extra dongle...

Roundpixel
07-28-2003, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by eggy

If you are getting tired about that topic, why do you post your opinion on this topic ?

I said it before it is still agreat deal, but damn I need this f... extra dongle...

I´m posting here cause i was interested in the videos that this thread was supposed to be related to.

JC

eggy
07-28-2003, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Roundpixel
I´m posting here cause i was interested in the videos that this thread was supposed to be related to.

JC

Sorry roundpixel nothing personal… :)

You should visit this thread, sorry for my little off topic flaming posts !
I just can’t afford another DF+ seat and it was said that we get a standalone DFX+ seat…
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8625

And thanks to Lee for the great DF videos… :D

WilliamVaughan
07-28-2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by eggy
So chuck you made a mistake, damn I guess that’s human, respect that you even admit it !!! :D

But is there a way that I can get an extra dongle ?
You know I already bought an extra computer just for compositing (for DFX+) because I thought sure I will receive an extra dongle, and I hope you understand I need this extra dongle !!!

Sorry for all the trouble, maybe we should start a “trading forum” at this board, some people just want one dongle and received an extra one !!! Just a thought !
Hope I will receive my DFX+ package some day, I ordered June 10th and already paid before June 15th, damn I’m stupid !!!
Hope you guys at Newtek really use this money for the future development in Lightwave, really locking forward for LW 8, the previews look great so far.
Damn and I will definitely watch the streaming !!!

See you
eggy

And sorry for the trouble again, but you know, we the users, own you guys in some kind of way !!!

This is Chuck, via Proton's system -- I really don't know if eyeon has provisions for those who want to make the license independent - but I would suggest that it would be worth emailing or calling their customer services to ask. I'll see if I can find something out - but my net access will be spotty during the show. And yup, you own our ornery hides - in some way! ;)

Doug Nicola
07-28-2003, 10:40 AM
Ha Ha! So, we do own you! Oh boy, this is going to be fun...!:D

Chuck and Lee, thanks lots for the feedback on all this. Chuck, you put that extra crackle in my rice crispies on a Monday morning. I was giving people (down in the DF forum) wrong information myself because I didn't know about the change. Mistakes do happen, so thanks for owning them! You guys are great! DFX+ is great and thanks again for the awesome deal!

I just hope there is some way this works out so everyone can be happy... I think it would be great if there was some way dongles could be purchased from eyeon.

Happy SIGGRAPHing! :D

pauland
07-28-2003, 10:43 AM
I emailed Eyone here in the UK about buying a dongle - no response yet!

Paul

TyVole
07-28-2003, 12:19 PM
I remember reading somewhere that someone bought a dongle from eyeon for $200 plus shipping.

pauland
07-28-2003, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by TyVole
I remember reading somewhere that someone bought a dongle from eyeon for $200 plus shipping.

$200 seems outrageous.

Paul

kevman3d
07-28-2003, 04:08 PM
This is nothing to do with dongles, but in fact to just ask if this LW+DFX deal extends outside the US/Europe to the rest of the world?

I asked the Distributor here and sounds like he never heard of any such 'extended' deal? Its not the first time this has happened at this end of the world.

colkai
07-29-2003, 02:54 AM
Kevman,
I know it is running here in the UK until the end of this month - whether that will now be extended I can't say. So far the offer is still marked as valid until 30-07-2003.

Eggy,
So because you have to use LW & DFX on one computer it is DFX lite? Does that Make LW 'LW Lite' because you can only use it on one computer?
The deal has always been clear, to be honest, if it is $200 for a DFX dongle, you have still got one heck of a deal.
Mind you, I wonder, if both machines are on a network, could Eyeon provide some way of tying the DFX to LW - as it would still "see" the LW machine. You never know, it may be worth e-mailing them with that query!

-Colkai

pauland
07-29-2003, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by colkai
Kevman,
I know it is running here in the UK until the end of this month - whether that will now be extended I can't say. So far the offer is still marked as valid until 30-07-2003.
September 15th. http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/dfxoffer/dfx_uk.html


Originally posted by colkai
The deal has always been clear, to be honest, if it is $200 for a DFX dongle, you have still got one heck of a deal.

Well, the deal has always been 'clear', unfortunately the deal has changed from the original one, and even now the description of the deal doesn't mention the restriction that has upset people - tying the software to the LW dongle. A lot of people bought into a different deal to the one that was supplied.

Originally, when the deal started people were delighted to find that, as advertised by NewTek, LW upgraders received the same deal as if they'd bought the bundle from Eyeon. LW staff even pointed out people could upgrade and sell the Eyeon bundle and get a free upgrade! Early bundle fulfilment included a dongle so everything seemed fine.

Later, as the bundle was shipped without a dongle, people questioned it since they didn't get the same deal as the early purchasers. It seems the actual deal is for a dongle-less bundle, not that it features big-time anywhere in the promotion description. Chuck has apologised for the suggestion that the bundle could be sold separately.

I don't think that NewTek have ever in their advertising spelt out the fact that the bundle is tied to the LW dongle, so that's why the confusion is there and the 'clear' deal isn't as clear as it should be. I suspect that if I had a mind to take NewTeks adverts and the supplied bundle to the trading watchdogs, it might cause NewTek/Newtek Europe some embarassment, since they didn't supply what they advertise, namely "a full version of DFX+ including modules 1 & 4 (worth more than 1000 GBP)".

NewTek gave us a great deal, they just need to tighten up their descriptions.

Paul

colkai
07-29-2003, 04:20 AM
I think it's fair to say there is some embarassment by all this and I'm sure Newtek are regretting some of the things said.

However, as it is Eyeon who control the dongle issue and who initially shipped with dongles, then without I think all the blame should not fall at Newtek's door.

Maybe if Eyeon had made it clear to Newtek from the beginning that the deal would be tied to the current LW dongle, this may not have arisen. The fact that they initially shipped dongles led to some, shall we say, unfortunate choice of words by Newtek staff?
People could have made a choice then. It's all water under the bridge now though. Whilst I sympathise with those who got the deal looking to make a buck by selling DFX+ afterwards, I guess if you're getting the software for free - doesn't mean you *have* to use it. After all, the deal is to get the LW8 upgrade, leastways - that's how I percieved it.

The last two upgrades have cost around 400 ukp for me, so this was a no-brainer, I figure, the 'normal' upgrade would work out at about that. In fact, I wasn't going to go for it, until I checked my old reciepts, then I really had to!
Of course, if the 'std' upgrade does cost the same sans deal - all those that didn't take up the deal will be ready to complain I'm sure! ;) (To be honest mind, I'm wondering if this may run until LW8 is out - nothing to back that up, just a guess)

At the end of the day, we have to live with the result, I'm sure lessons have been learned from this by many folk. Not least of which Newtek themselves.

Original1
07-29-2003, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by takkun
The version I got didn't have a dongle and it works fine, you just have to register it to get a license key. (not sure but it might look for a lightwave dongle)

I've only had a little bit of time to play with it but so far I know one thing, I'm in love with it's node based flow! It's just too much fun!

My copy picked up the Lightwave dongle in my machine and my VT2 so I had a choice of which to lock it to, so I locked it to my Duo 7.5 Dongle.

This is a SUPERB PACKAGE and comes with a courseware DVD

GUYS FROM NEWTEK LISTEN UP--- IF you really want to know what I want in version 8.0 look at the way eyeon did there Docs and Tutorial thats what we want. No depending on third party DVD or books, a well thought through intro to version 8.0.

One the usabilty front, there are some really nice drap and drop touchs in the DFX+ interface that are really intuitive, there has been a lot talk about how the interface will look on another thread, whereas I thick the disscussion should focus on usability and theres a lot we can learn from other programs.

Original1
07-29-2003, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by kevman3d
This is nothing to do with dongles, but in fact to just ask if this LW+DFX deal extends outside the US/Europe to the rest of the world?

I asked the Distributor here and sounds like he never heard of any such 'extended' deal? Its not the first time this has happened at this end of the world.

Kevman,

I'm in the UK me copy was delivered yesterday from OneVideo,
who are generally the most on the ball with Lightwave stuff.

They have even been known to get me Siggraph specials in the past.

Original1
07-29-2003, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by colkai
I think it's fair to say there is some embarassment by all this and I'm sure Newtek are regretting some of the things said.

However, as it is Eyeon who control the dongle issue and who initially shipped with dongles, then without I think all the blame should not fall at Newtek's door.

Maybe if Eyeon had made it clear to Newtek from the beginning that the deal would be tied to the current LW dongle, this may not have arisen. The fact that they initially shipped dongles led to some, shall we say, unfortunate choice of words by Newtek staff?
People could have made a choice then. It's all water under the bridge now though. Whilst I sympathise with those who got the deal looking to make a buck by selling DFX+ afterwards, I guess if you're getting the software for free - doesn't mean you *have* to use it. After all, the deal is to get the LW8 upgrade, leastways - that's how I percieved it.

The last two upgrades have cost around 400 ukp for me, so this was a no-brainer, I figure, the 'normal' upgrade would work out at about that. In fact, I wasn't going to go for it, until I checked my old reciepts, then I really had to!
Of course, if the 'std' upgrade does cost the same sans deal - all those that didn't take up the deal will be ready to complain I'm sure! ;) (To be honest mind, I'm wondering if this may run until LW8 is out - nothing to back that up, just a guess)

At the end of the day, we have to live with the result, I'm sure lessons have been learned from this by many folk. Not least of which Newtek themselves.


Listen Guys I am delighted wih the deal even if it is tied to my Lightwave dongle.

My guess would be this that early adopters got copies of exsisting stock simple to serve customers quickly, I ordered an upgrade to LW and got DFX+ free period Happy Man

TyVole
07-29-2003, 09:01 AM
According to this, the upgrade deal ends on July 31:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/07-29-03a.html

Original1
07-29-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Earl
NP Lee! It's really a minor detail anyway. Man, do you ever get any sleep?

errr, I guess that 'NP' was supposed to be 'No problem' - sometimes I let the acronyms slip!


Digital Fusion ships with its full documentation

LW 8.0 is a Downloadable upgrade in PDF form with Manual and CD being available as a convience upgrade of $99

as a PS if you want to know what the next generation of LW docs and tutorials should be like you would not go far wrong by taking a leaf out of eyeons books, very impressed with the Courseware DVD

A Mejias
07-29-2003, 12:37 PM
TyVole,

Thanks for the post!!! Wow, they officially announce it with only 2 days left. I would have missed the deadline! See you can't ask the same question too many times. ;)

Now where is that credit card...
/.\\™
A Mejias




Originally posted by TyVole
According to this, the upgrade deal ends on July 31:

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/07-29-03a.html

inquisitive
07-29-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Stranahan
My .02...

I'm not 100% sure how the dongle-ing is working. But. You'll really want it running on the same computer with LightWave, because it's all part of the same workflow. I really view it as an extension of LightWave...

Just an opinion...

Not when you need to render an animation.
All of the sudden you cannot continue using DFX+ because its attached to lightwave even though you have multiple computers in your house/location.

Personally I ordered in June 30 and I expect to receive the dongle.
(Took 23 days to receive the package)

I left a message with customer support last week (no word yet) an email from eyeone tech support was forwarded to eyeone sales (no word yet).

kevman3d
07-29-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Original1
I'm in the UK me copy was delivered yesterday from OneVideo,
who are generally the most on the ball with Lightwave stuff.

Um, well, that doesn't really help me since I'm in New Zealand and not the UK. Was there a point in telling me this? Are you trying to rub salt into the wounds already?! ;) lol!

I can't buy outside the country/Aus. Regional sales restrictions and all forbid this...

The Australasian distributor (NewMagic) asked me 'So, where did you hear about an extension from?'. I'd love to look at purchasing the [8] upgrade + DFX. I would just upgrade to [8] anyway, but well, if the deal is still available... :D

Limbus
07-29-2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by inquisitive
Not when you need to render an animation.
All of the sudden you cannot continue using DFX+ because its attached to lightwave even though you have multiple computers in your house/location.

Just use LW Screamernet and render on the other computers. This way you can then work with DFX+ on your main machine.

Florian

DredPiratThomas
07-29-2003, 07:13 PM
For Kevman

This whole regional restriction thing is a shambles IMHO.

I tried to buy the product from NewMagic a while back, but gave up after a half dozen emails went back and forth re the price in NZ/AUS compared to the deal being offered by Safe Harbor in the USA at the time. Apparently the difference - over 30% if I recall - was because the local reseller had an obligation to provide after sales service and support.

Discovery edition for me until this changes, I think.
Interestingly, the official LW campus store - for academic purchases - will ship to AUS and NZ, at the same price US customers pay. Why academic customers are catered for by Newtek but not 'real' customers is anyone's guess.

If Newtek want people outside the USA to get good value they should ship overseas - it'll keep their resellers honest, and ensure thay have to actually do something to convince customers in their area that they're getting value for money, instead of the like it or lump it system in place now.

Incidentally, why don't you just buy LW overseas and then register it in NZ? Is that verboten also? I'm travelling overseas soon and thought I could buy while I'm away.

robinson
07-29-2003, 07:38 PM
for DredPiratThomas

I ordered my copy last summer from www.desktopimages.com it was the summer special with 10 DVDs, wasn’t any problem to register.:)

robinson
07-29-2003, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Limbus
Just use LW Screamernet and render on the other computers. This way you can then work with DFX+ on your main machine.

Florian

Florian the LW Screamernet was mentioned before, even the Lwsn Controller from Dstorm was mentioned before.

But damn that no solution !!! :mad:
You still can’t work on two different computers at the same time and that’s the whole problem with the one dongle !!! :mad:

Limbus
07-30-2003, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by robinson
Florian the LW Screamernet was mentioned before, even the Lwsn Controller from Dstorm was mentioned before.

But damn that no solution !!! :mad:
You still can’t work on two different computers at the same time and that’s the whole problem with the one dongle !!! :mad:

No, thats the problem with having only one head and two arms :D :D :D

Florian

kevman3d
07-30-2003, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by Limbus
No, thats the problem with having only one head and two arms :D :D :D

Florian

Actually, I work with two computers at the same time - This one for email, and my other for LW - So its possible...

However the slight 'oscillation' of the sound made between the fans of the two machines in a small room does make your head feel a little funny after a couple of hours! :D

However, surely someone by now can tell me if the DFX+ deal extends to the Oceanic/Pacific areas of the world as well? I figure if I'm gonna pay for an upgrade anyway, I may as well get it with some freebee's! :)

eggy
07-30-2003, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by Limbus
No, thats the problem with having only one head and two arms :D :D :D

Florian

Oh you should use this one head and at least one arm from time to time to browse this thread, nothing new and absolutely no solution for two heads and four arms with two computers. :D

For two computers you need two dongles, simple as that, there is no solution in starting some kind of stupid screamer net, try to think about a real solutions. ;)