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View Full Version : what do you think of the Modelers layers menu ?



lasco
07-23-2003, 08:37 AM
Hi,
I'm curious to see if people here use the layers menu
on the uppper right part of the Modeler's screen.
Must say I'm personnaly amazed by the abstraction of this menu
and never, never use it.
On the other hand I find that the layers panel should really be improved,
especially I hate the fact of having to hit SHIFT each time you need to
display several layers (in foreground or background).
This is not natural at all I mean and… well why not clicking simply
on the layers you need and using SHIFT only to undisplay them ?



(mm… let's see if I'm able to edit a pool correctly…)

lasco
07-23-2003, 08:47 AM
I precise :
I thought it would be usefull to separate answers
of people who use this menu until they find it has too
much limitation (because of the number of layers) - that's vote 2
…and people who use (or don't use it) depending on other
factors (depending on the way people work), for example
maybe one could use this menu when he or she works on a character
but not on a spatial scene etc. mean according to the organisation of
each project rather than only the number of layers… that's vote 3 !

lasco
07-23-2003, 08:48 AM
hey that's cool !
for the moment
100% votes think like me :D

(ahum, there's only 1 vote…)

Karmacop
07-23-2003, 08:56 AM
I like them the way they are. I like just being able to click on a single layer and not have to click off all the layers i don't want. But that may just be because I'm use to it.

What I don't like is when I use more than 10 layers .. I don't use the layer window .. maybe I should, but using the top panel that you've shown with more than 10 layers is annoying ....

Matt
07-23-2003, 09:08 AM
this is REALLY old now and I would probably do it different now, but I posted this on the old forum . . .

http://www.creactive-design.co.uk/lightwave_vx/gfx/layers.jpg

lasco
07-23-2003, 09:23 AM
Matt,
this is a serious job,

no matter it's old, it should be
kept on the top of the posts list until it's
really embeded in LW !!!!

I vote for you :)
congrats

Valter
07-23-2003, 09:51 AM
hmmm... Matt why have option to add a new layer? I think that don't need add a new layer, just create some geometry on default empty layer bar on top/right of screen or do you have another conception for lw layers management?

Limbus
07-23-2003, 09:51 AM
I love the layers because they are so easy to use. An extra window with more settings would be ok but I really like the easy interface on the top.
It would be nice, if you just had to click to activate, deactivate a layer (no holding the shift key).

Florian

Matt
07-23-2003, 09:54 AM
lasco - I meant the image I posted is really old now! not the need for improved layers!!!

Valter - like I said this is old work, it could be done much better now, I agree too many buttons at the bottom, but the functionality in the list is something I'd still like to see.

Most of it is nabbed from Photoshops layers too!!! :)

riki
07-23-2003, 09:57 AM
I agree that the layers window needs a serious make-over. I'm not too keen on Parts.

But I can't understand what's so strange about the Layers buttons in the top right. For me they work fine, clear and simple. They're compact, don't get in the way and I could see how they worked from day 1.

lasco
07-23-2003, 10:17 AM
what really dsturbs me actually is the fact
that there is no names in this menu.
I usually spend all my time changing parts of my models
of layers and could'nt remind anything wih this interface
without names…

hrgiger
07-23-2003, 11:35 AM
I love the layers menu. The only thing I like about it and somebody already mentioned it but if I have more then 10 layers(which rarely happens, I usually end up with 8-10 layers on most things or less) you click over to the second set of 10 layers and then etc.... I think they should look a little different so you realize which set of layers your on. Even if you can just add a glowing number 2 or something above the 2nd layer set, 3 for the next one and so on just to make it clear where you're at.

Earl
07-23-2003, 12:04 PM
I like the boxes up there for quick Layer operations and switching, however I welcome change to the layer window a la Matt's (and Photoshop) image. Wireframe color by layer is pretty recognized by other apps, and would solve people's needs for different colored wireframes.

What I think would really be cool is having a layer like window specifically for polygon "Parts" - that way even if your geometry is all connected and you have to work in one layer, you can still easily hide different groups of polys quickly. No need to deselect what you're currently working on, just click the little eyeball next to the part name.

Rei
07-23-2003, 12:52 PM
I like the way the layers work at the mo, they are fine for what i have done, so i see no reason to change them, of course they should be more customizable, so people can choose.

stef
07-23-2003, 12:54 PM
Way to go Matt...
Remember? You are 'da man'....

Matt
07-23-2003, 01:12 PM
not sure about that stef!!! :) but thanks anyway!!!

lasco
07-23-2003, 02:42 PM
well the more I see the results of the pool
the less I think have chances that menu disappears
in next version of LW…

only solution : I have to change my way of thinking.
(can't even understand how people can so often
work with less than 10 layers, I so many time have 20, 30
or 40 of them !!!)

Earl
07-23-2003, 03:26 PM
Hey Lasco, I think your poll can be misleading. People can vote that they use the layers buttons most of the time, but that doesn't mean people don't want an improved layer window. I can't think of any reason NOT to update the Layer window to include the features discussed in this thread. Probably won't be for this version, but it's very possible they'll add it in a 8.x release.

CB_3D
07-23-2003, 04:12 PM
A little pulldown with the layerbrowser left to the layer checkboxes would be a simple and effective solution.

SLAYER
07-23-2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by lasco
what really dsturbs me actually is the fact
that there is no names in this menu.
I usually spend all my time changing parts of my models
of layers and could'nt remind anything wih this interface
without names…

You do know that there is a layer browser window?
I like to keep mine docked to the side as shown along with the numeric panel below it and the statistics window below that.
Set this up one time and it will open like this as default every time you use LW.

SLAYER
07-23-2003, 07:14 PM
Oh yeah, if you didn't know, you double click and it allows you to enter names and just checking the boxes allows you to do foreground or background.
This is quite nice because if you have alot of layers it is hard to know what lies within so many little yellow boxes.

lord
07-23-2003, 07:35 PM
Yes and now add an expansion button to veiw the list of non destructive, adjustable, modifiers beneath each layer.

Which, incidentally are then viewable and adjustable in Layout.

:)

John Fornasar
07-23-2003, 07:59 PM
and adding a bit to Slayers post:

you can open multiple objects in Modeler, and use the Layer menu to view all of your layers. You can also collapse the layers to concentrate on one object and reclaim screen space.

When you double click on a layer to name it, you can also parent the layer at the same time.

When I'm working on a complex object, once I have the primary shape, I place it in the first layer. I use lower layers (depending on the object, I'll start on layer 5 or so) to start modeling secondary parts. As the part is finished, I'll bring it up to the first layer, or if I need to animate it separately, into the next layer (2).

I model my boolean cutout shapes starting on layer 10 or greater so they don't interfere with my workflow. And by clicking the "Eye" icon at the right of the menu (one of the few icons in LW) I can hide that layer when I'm doing previews in Layout.

hey, by the way, can I attach more than one file to a reply, or do I need to point to a server?

John Fornasar
07-23-2003, 08:00 PM
all layers open:

I meant both objects open...

lasco
07-24-2003, 01:19 AM
ok guys
thanx for having explained to me the way the
layers window works…

erhum… but I knew all this :)

Nemoid
07-24-2003, 08:12 AM
Well, talking about layers:
I like very much the system on top right. for example thinking
when users work with only the main window opened without
toolbars or windows i like it expecially since has been updated
with the possibility to pass to groups of 10 layers.
I agree with HRGiger on the recognizing layer groups tip.

the layer editor must be updated though.
in fact its great having the possibility to work in two ways!! :)
I think once again Matt's ideas are great since it
adds the grouping layers possibility.

the create new layer can appear misleading, since
in Lw layers are present yet, but valid if occupied by geometry,
but the command appears logic in someway.
adding a part browser also can be very good, what about some..
adding a tab into the layer editor or better modifying statistic
window in a way u can view easitly
surfaces , parts and so on, with the possibility of renaming.
deleting(not the real geometry, only the attribution of a surface to it), etc??

I work with layer editor opened most of times as well as numeric
and other windows opened.and they help a lot, but they are
not so well organized and integrated.(Lw is not projected to work in this way)
so, should be fine if in the future all these windows could be dockable.
and customizable-attachable like in Motion Builder and other apps.

lasco
07-24-2003, 09:41 AM
I think once again Matt's ideas are great since it
adds the grouping layers possibility.



well that's sure but it would be really usefull only
if we also had these layers grouped in the LAYOUT !!!

Grouping objects in the Layout is a feature that LW really misses,
I know the tip of parenting them to a null but it find it very annoying
as for example it forces you to "group" all your items before moving or
rotating them, while you sometimes need to create groups during the
work without caring of which object has been moved or not…

Kvaalen
07-24-2003, 09:41 AM
Since every one is posting what they would like to change with the layers panel, I may as well say what I'd like.

I think it would be cool if you could click on a check box and then drag the mouse over other check boxes and it will check them too.
That way you don't have to hold shift down and click on every one separetly.
I think you can do something like that with After Effects too.

Here is a little video explaining what I mean:

Layers.mov (http://mapage.noos.fr/samuelLK/Layers.mov) (420 kb)

meshmaster
07-24-2003, 10:14 AM
is layers in modeller implemented in layout... so you could still work with the layers as layers instead of as seperate objects when you animate.

jb_gfx
07-24-2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Kvaalen
Since every one is posting what they would like to change with the layers panel, I may as well say what I'd like.

I think it would be cool if you could click on a check box and then drag the mouse over other check boxes and it will check them too.
That way you don't have to hold shift down and click on every one separetly.
I think you can do something like that with After Effects too.

Here is a little video explaining what I mean:

Layers.mov (http://mapage.noos.fr/samuelLK/Layers.mov) (420 kb)

I totally agree with this simple but smart idea.

Kvaalen
07-24-2003, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by meshmaster
is layers in modeller implemented in layout... so you could still work with the layers as layers instead of as seperate objects when you animate.

It is possible to parent one layer to another in Modeler and it will be parented in Layout.

Dick Ma
07-24-2003, 12:58 PM
I think one of the improvement should be bring out that the Layers Menu (I mean the top right), the number should start from 0 rather than 1.

So, when I doing something in layer 15, the menu show 1 rather than 2.

Alan Daniels
07-24-2003, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Matt
this is REALLY old now and I would probably do it different now, but I posted this on the old forum . . .


I don't have a problem with the "layer bar" as it's currently implemented in Modeler, but this is a wonderful idea, and should definitely be in LW. I really hope something like this makes it into LW8!

bakasaru
07-24-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Kvaalen
It is possible to parent one layer to another in Modeler and it will be parented in Layout.


Yes, in the layer browser use the dropdown arrow in the upper right to switch from list to hierarchy view, then parent away!

Kvaalen
07-24-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by bakasaru
Yes, in the layer browser use the dropdown arrow in the upper right to switch from list to hierarchy view, then parent away!

I guess I sould have answered that too when I replied. I tend to give short answers. ;)