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Nige
05-06-2008, 07:00 AM
Hi

I've started getting weird crashes in Layout - usually after a render, the entire machine goes down, frozen solid, with a single pixel line drawn from somewhere mid screen to the top left corner.

It's an aluminium 24inch iMac, new last October. It didn't used to do this, only since I updated to 9.3.1UB... Tried going back to 9.3 with the same result.

Layout is the only prog that does it, I use CS3 etc with no problems.

I've done the usual things, disabled the hub etc to no avail

ANy thoughts??

Nige

Chilton
05-06-2008, 07:21 AM
Hi,

This is abosolutely odd behavior. However, we did have a number of minor OpenGL bugs crop up on this particular machine, all of which Apple has squashed with software updates. Are you up to date on your system software?

If not, this sounds like either RAM or video card related. Nothing except those two things can normally bring down OSX.

-Chilton

Nige
05-06-2008, 08:03 AM
Hi Chilton

That's what I thought...

All software updates have been done, as have the graphic card/firmware updates.

I think I may have narrowed it down to renders I'm doing which are composites - ie. a render with a model on a background photo. Tried changing the pics from PSDs to JPGs to no effect...

Regards

Nige

Chilton
05-06-2008, 08:28 AM
Well that's plain annoying. Also, take a look at memory usage in Activity Monitor and see if it's skyrocketing or something. If you're in the Open Beta program, please test it with 9.5 and see if it's happening there (but report back in the Open Beta forum).

Thanks!
-Chilton

Nige
05-06-2008, 03:40 PM
Hi Chilton

This gets more puzzling...

After trying everything I can think of - I use 2 imacs, 1 work, 1 home - so I've come home and tried the scene on an another machine, with the same result. I can't do a screen shot, so I took a pic...

The 2 iMacs were bought 3 months apart - 1 needed the graphics card 'freeze' update, the other didn't, so I don't see that as an issue. THe only common things are the scene file and textures, held on a LaCie firewire drive, and the dongle.

It's intermittent - I can work on the file for ages with no problem - quit and re-launch and BAM! lines and a freeze. If it's a clue, it almost always freezes if I pop the 'Camera View Background' pop up in display prefs - just popping the button brings the freeze, either machine. I'm assuming this is an Open GL issue but it's a funny one...

Thanks for your time CHilton, perhaps you could ask the 'Cone Heads' if they have any ideas...!

Regards

Nige

Chilton
05-06-2008, 03:44 PM
That is very, very weird.

I'll ask around.

-Chilton

meshpig
05-07-2008, 05:45 AM
Hi,

This is abosolutely odd behavior. However, we did have a number of minor OpenGL bugs crop up on this particular machine, all of which Apple has squashed with software updates. Are you up to date on your system software?

If not, this sounds like either RAM or video card related. Nothing except those two things can normally bring down OSX.

-Chilton

Chilton

Gee, this sounds a little too familiar.

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82998

Apple had my intel imac for 2 weeks and found nothing wrong with either the video card or the original Apple RAM and inconclusively put it down to the aftermarket RAM 3 GB chipset.

OK, the RAM I bought is probably faulty and I pick up a new set tomorrow but I also had the same freeze today albeit only the one in several days.

The thing is none of this ever happened on Tiger on the same machine.

I also think from the same thread that this is definitely not application related. Where Unity was crashing the machine every time it's now behaving nicely, this time it just happened to be Lightwave build 1378 but in fact it can happen on screen saver... just as it did at ye olde Apple shoppe last week.

Something weird is going on here but maybe 10.5.3 will sort it out?



the entire machine goes down, frozen solid, with a single pixel line drawn from somewhere mid screen to the top left corner.


Yep, me too. I've been told that's not unusual for the imac (white) screens but again, never saw it on Tiger.

It's nothing to do with LW...


m:beerchug:

meshpig
05-07-2008, 07:05 AM
Hi

I've started getting weird crashes in Layout - usually after a render, the entire machine goes down, frozen solid, with a single pixel line drawn from somewhere mid screen to the top left corner.

It's an aluminium 24inch iMac, new last October. It didn't used to do this, only since I updated to 9.3.1UB... Tried going back to 9.3 with the same result.

Layout is the only prog that does it, I use CS3 etc with no problems.

I've done the usual things, disabled the hub etc to no avail

ANy thoughts??

Nige

Hi

I've been getting the same for a few months now. I'm not convinced it's either a RAM or software problem.

-How soon after purchase did these crashes start?

- Did it ship with 10.5.1 and thus when did you update to 10.5.2? Around the same time as the UB 9.3.1?

Curious?

It doesn't strike me as application specific.

m

Nige
05-07-2008, 07:48 AM
If you read on you will find that it happens to me on 2 different machines, from which I deduce it isn't a hardware fault.

I'm running Tiger, and this only occurs with Lightwave - I'm still digging, but it looks increasingly like an OpenGL/Lightwave/Intel iMac issue.

I haven't had the slightest problem with modeler, CS3 or any other app...

Nige

meshpig
05-07-2008, 08:14 AM
If you read on you will find that it happens to me on 2 different machines, from which I deduce it isn't a hardware fault.

I'm running Tiger, and this only occurs with Lightwave - I'm still digging, but it looks increasingly like an OpenGL/Lightwave/Intel iMac issue.

I haven't had the slightest problem with modeler, CS3 or any other app...

Nige


I don't think it's a hardware problem either as I said.

-Which of your 2 machines crashes? ie. are you running Tiger on intel and on both machines?

- Why OpenGL? It's such a non-issue usually.

- You say it only happens with LW but how have you tested it otherwise?

m

badpineapple
05-07-2008, 10:33 AM
I've been having similar (not identical) crashes on my Dual Core Intel MacPro, 4cores; and on another machine with 8 cores. Both in Tiger and Leopard. The whole machine hasn't gone down yet — knock on wood — but rendering oversized scenes seems to be the center of all the failure. Too many polys, man. I sent Chilton a LW Crash Log the other day... I don't think he found anything.

Nige
05-07-2008, 02:59 PM
I don't think it's a hardware problem either as I said.

-Which of your 2 machines crashes? ie. are you running Tiger on intel and on both machines?

- Why OpenGL? It's such a non-issue usually.

- You say it only happens with LW but how have you tested it otherwise?

m

Both Intel iMacs crash the same way, which would seem to eliminate a hardware fault.

Why OpenGL? Beacause the Intel Ali iMac has had some other issues with Lightwave and Open GL...

It does only happen with Lightwave - the only 'testing' I can do is to use the machine hard 8 hours a day - CS3, video editing etc

Regards

N

Chilton
05-07-2008, 03:13 PM
I suspect we're tickling something on the card that it doesn't like. I'm looking into it.

-Chilton

Nige
05-08-2008, 05:33 AM
I suspect we're tickling something on the card that it doesn't like. I'm looking into it.

-Chilton

Hi CHilton

Whatever is happening happens in 9.5 too...:bangwall:

I enclose another pic - same again, 2 lines to the top corner, machine frozen...

It happens the instant the render finishes and the finished image pops up.

What's driving me insane is the unpredictabilty of this... I.ve tried so many things to repeat it but I can't hit on anything - it's just too random.

Nige

Chilton
05-08-2008, 05:35 AM
Hi Nige,

I will forward these to the bug guys at Apple and see what they say. I assume the whole machine is locked up at this point, correct? If not, a command+shift+3 screenshot would be awesome. If so, can you tell if that line is antialiased?

Thanks!
-Chilton

Nige
05-08-2008, 06:08 AM
Hi Nige,

I will forward these to the bug guys at Apple and see what they say. I assume the whole machine is locked up at this point, correct? If not, a command+shift+3 screenshot would be awesome. If so, can you tell if that line is antialiased?

Thanks!
-Chilton

Hi Chilton

The machine locks solid, so all I can do is revert to taking a pic...

The line isn't anti-aliased, usually white with a few colours here and there. There appears to be always 2 lines.

The lines often start horizontally from a button or pop up around the screen, then head straight to 0,0 top left corner.

I have sometimes used a second monitor to the left of the main screen (removing it makes no difference), but the lines always go to 0,0 on the main screen.

I'm using OS X 10.4.11, 2.4GHz Intel iMac aluminium with 2GB RAM. The other machine it does it on is the same spec, but a 6 week newer machine.


As an aside, 9.5 is MUCH quicker than 9.3.1 on this machine.... It seems very impressive.

Keep up the good work...:thumbsup:

Thanks

Nige

Nige
05-08-2008, 06:34 AM
Chilton

Another one, looks like 3 lines...:thumbsdow

As you can see, they start from any old pixel...

Nige

Nige
05-08-2008, 06:58 AM
Chilton

Just to clarify, this tends to happen when the render has finished and then the instant I dismiss the render preview, it goes...

Nige

Chilton
05-08-2008, 06:58 AM
And you've only seen this on those two iMacs, correct?

-Chilton

Nige
05-08-2008, 07:41 AM
And you've only seen this on those two iMacs, correct?

Chilton

That's correct...

I have 2 Ali Intel iMacs 6 weeks difference in age - they both fall over the same. Unfortunately, I don't have any other machines to try this out on...

One thing that does seem to keep happening...

1) Run the render no issues

2) Quit and re-launch

3) Render again and it fails

I'm losing track of things a little, but this does seem to be something of a pattern. I've tried switching off multi threaded OpenGL too...

Nige

Nige
05-15-2008, 08:06 AM
Chilton

A few more clues.

This isn't related to composite renders - I'm getting this crash with normal renders with no background pics.

I've tried changing memory segments, image viewer FP, on and off, preview on and off etc. There is a pattern of render,quit, restart, render, and crash.

The only thing which allows me to work is do an F10 and look at the pic.

F9 will create the pic and as soon as I dismiss the preview box using mouse or ESC - Bam... lines and a lock-up...

The lines often come from the bottom left corner of a button...

Again, this is on 2 iMac Ali Intel machines... I've been using an old MacMini G4 - no issues at all so far...

Any news at all??

Nige

Nige
05-15-2008, 09:35 AM
Chilton

This seems to have started happening since I upgraded from 9.3 to 9.3.1.

I have been using these machines since before Xmas with no problems - since the upgrade the issues have started.

I have just downloaded 9.3 again - same result. That's 9.3, 9.3.1 and 9.5.

Has 9.3.1 modified anything other than Newtek software??

I have to be honest, this is a show stopper for me - I earn a living from using Lightwave, this is making me very nervous...

Do I buy a new machine, MacPro, Intel MacMini? Just to run Lightwave??

I think your idea that Lighwave is prodding the video card somewhere is possibly correct, but why does it only happen sometimes, and why is it not repeatable?

Nige