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elephantparade
04-27-2008, 09:13 PM
Help! I'm a beginner. I've just opened a scene file with a character rigged with IK booster and the arm mesh seems to have come away from the arm bones. Everything was fine when I saved and closed last time.

toby
04-27-2008, 09:31 PM
Have you tried "resting" the bones? This tells lightwave that "the bones start deforming the geometry from this spot". Select the bones and press 'r'.

elephantparade
04-27-2008, 09:33 PM
Problem solved! Thanks very much :)

toby
04-27-2008, 09:40 PM
Xcelnt.
Btw, what you experienced, with the rig broken when you re-opened it, is common with rigging in LW. I recommend you version-up your scene *a lot*.

SplineGod
04-27-2008, 11:27 PM
I wouldnt say common. I can count the number of times on one hand its happened to me over the years but fixing it is pretty simple if it does. :)

hrgiger
04-28-2008, 06:13 AM
It shouldn't ever happen at all , but welcome to Lightwave.

SplineGod
04-28-2008, 08:35 AM
Thats pretty much welcome to any software. I own a ton of it and have yet to not have any of it do strange things from time to time.

toby
04-28-2008, 01:52 PM
I wouldnt say common. I can count the number of times on one hand its happened to me over the years but fixing it is pretty simple if it does. :)

We all have different thresholds of what is 'common' but it's probably happened to anyone who's ever rigged in LW!

SplineGod
04-29-2008, 01:06 AM
I guess where Im coming from is from the standpoint of rigging quite a bit in LW and I havent run into this problem in so long I cant even recall that last time it happened to me :)

hrgiger
04-29-2008, 05:05 AM
It's common enough. If I had a penny for every time someone posted a thread about this particular problem, I'd buy a copy of XSI Advanced.

Philbert
04-29-2008, 05:23 AM
Personaly I've never heard of this problem. I rest my bones (hehe) when I set up the rig, then I never have to touch it again unless I want to adjust the rig or something.

Surrealist.
05-01-2008, 09:59 AM
But how can you be animating successfully with your bones not rested?

That's what I don't get. People say everything is fine until they save the scene, then bam! It does happen a lot here on this forum. Does anybody know why this happens? Splinegod? Is it just a weird thing? Or is there a reason?

hrgiger
05-01-2008, 10:21 AM
Splinegod keeps his 'excuses for Lightwave' book always on the ready.

Dodgy
05-01-2008, 10:41 AM
It's the one thing 90 percent of users hit. Once they know the solution, no-one has it again (usually :))
It's possibly to do with having changed your pivot point in modeler or something....

SplineGod
05-01-2008, 01:09 PM
Splinegod keeps his 'excuses for Lightwave' book always on the ready.

Almost as much as you keep your excuses for childish behavior book handy as usual.
Philbert said it doesnt happen to him either so do you plan to make stupid comments
at everyone that doesnt agree with you?

toby
05-01-2008, 01:15 PM
But how can you be animating successfully with your bones not rested?

That's what I don't get. People say everything is fine until they save the scene, then bam! It does happen a lot here on this forum. Does anybody know why this happens? Splinegod? Is it just a weird thing? Or is there a reason?
Well the bones have a default value before you rest 'em, so it can seem to work. It was also happening to me when I had to hack a rig after some animation had been done ( but I knew I was asking for it ), and something makes me think that failing to rest is not the only cause of this...

SplineGod
05-01-2008, 01:19 PM
But how can you be animating successfully with your bones not rested?

That's what I don't get. People say everything is fine until they save the scene, then bam! It does happen a lot here on this forum. Does anybody know why this happens? Splinegod? Is it just a weird thing? Or is there a reason?

Ive worked on a lot of character based shows in LW. Im working on one ATM for animal planet with lots of characters, bones, rigs and even IKBoost. It hasnt happened once and as I said earlier, I cant remember the last time it did.

It could be something related to what Dodgy mentioned and it might also be that people arent resting ALL the bones initially or are simply turning the bones on without resting them. I do remember having a rig a long time ago that had some null bones which were tiny that I didnt rest because they were only there to be pivot points. In that case I think the character loaded back in with the mesh distorted. After that I would always rest all bones and set the bone strength to the null bones to zero.

When you rest your bones each vertex is 'weighted' internally to determine how much influence each bone has over that vertex. Normally every bone in LW effects every vertex unless you have faster bones selected which then limits each vertex to being effected by the 4 closest bones. Its likely that because the bones arent being properly rested in the first place that some or all vertices are being properly weighted internally. Ive seen a fair number of posts regarding this where ppl simply turned the bones on without resting them first.

Also when using the bone tools to edit a bone etc, the bone or several bones will be deactived by the plugin. Ive seen ppl forget to rerest the bones.
Ive also seen people rerest bones when IK, motion modifiers, expressions etc are activated which can cause the vertices to be incorrectly weighted.

Philbert
05-01-2008, 03:22 PM
When I was in school we were taught that once you've got the bones in a position you like the final step is picking a bone in the scene editor and hitting R, down arrow, R, Down Arrow, etc. Until you get back to the bone you started with. Then keep hitting the down arrow repeatedly while watching the Bone Properties window to make sure the Bone Active check box is on for all of them.

toby
05-01-2008, 03:30 PM
When I was in school we were taught that once you've got the bones in a position you like the final step is picking a bone in the scene editor and hitting R, down arrow, R, Down Arrow, etc. Until you get back to the bone you started with. Then keep hitting the down arrow repeatedly while watching the Bone Properties window to make sure the Bone Active check box is on for all of them.

It should work with multi-selection by now, I'm sure it does.

SplineGod
05-01-2008, 03:39 PM
Multiselecting bones and hitting r has worked since Newtek allowed bones to be multiselected. Plus you can simply select the bones right in the viewport.:)
What I typically do is use the middle mouse button to select all the bones or right click on the root bone to select them all.

Philbert
05-01-2008, 05:13 PM
That's a good point, when I was in school we were on LW7.5 so such things didn't exist yet.

SplineGod
05-01-2008, 06:32 PM
Actually multiselecting bones and hitting r works in 7.5 too :)

Surrealist.
05-01-2008, 07:35 PM
When I was in school we were taught that once you've got the bones in a position you like the final step is picking a bone in the scene editor and hitting R, down arrow, R, Down Arrow, etc. Until you get back to the bone you started with. Then keep hitting the down arrow repeatedly while watching the Bone Properties window to make sure the Bone Active check box is on for all of them.


That's interesting. That's exactly the way I learned it too. And I don't think it has ever happened to me. :)

Toby thanks for the information. I sort of had the idea that activating a bone in its default position, be that as you convert a Skellegon or after you create one in layout, that it is automatically rested. And then if you did other editing you go though and hit r.



When you rest your bones each vertex is 'weighted' internally to determine how much influence each bone has over that vertex. Normally every bone in LW effects every vertex unless you have faster bones selected which then limits each vertex to being effected by the 4 closest bones.

And SplineGod that is some interesting data about bones:

I gotta ask, how do you know this stuff? None of this is in the manual AFAIK. Is it from learning the SDK? Or is it from knowing LScript? How is it that people find out this "under the hood" information that gives them the edge in understanding how things work in LW? I see this in many areas including surfacing and nodes.