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Mitja
04-23-2008, 05:04 AM
I have to animate a little pond, so it shouldn't be that difficult, but since I've neer done it before, I need a bit of help.
I thought I could animate it via the bump channel: right now I have the turbolence procedural applyed. What parameter should I animate to achieve a decent result? Since it's a little pond I don't want to use displacement, I want just a slight movement.
Or should I think of a different approach?Thanks for hepl!

dbigers
04-23-2008, 08:57 AM
If you want just some subtle motion you can animate the 'Y' position. That will move the procedural up or down and through the plane you are using for water. X and Z of course will move along the plane.

Experiment with each axis though, you may want some movement on the other two as well to indicate a breeze. Use the graph editor for the position and set a key frame at 30with a different value than than the zero frame. Then set post behaviour to continuous. Do some quick test movie renders. You should be able to tell after a few frames if it is moving too fast or too slow. From there just tweak it.

Mitja
04-23-2008, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the reply, but I wanted some more specific tips.
Animating along X and Z wouldn't produce a "realistic" waving... I guess I have to try myself.
PS:the Y position doesn't affect the animation, since water is...horizontal.

dbigers
04-23-2008, 10:37 AM
I have animated water on a plane numerous times using the above technique. Yes the water (plane) is horizontal, but the texture is a 3D texture, if you move the texture position it will animate the surface.

Try it and see, using only the 'Y' axis. If not I can send you a scene file this evening illustrating it. I have done this with ponds and ocean scenes. Using X or Z will just "move" the bump texture along the object. By using the 'Y' axis, the texture will move through the object vertically. Combined with movement on one of the other axes, you will get realistic waving. Because it wont be a static pattern moving along X or Z, it will be changing because the texture is 'moving' through the plane vertically.

Unless you modeled it differently than I am thinking. Are you using a flat plane modeled with the 'Y' axis being vertical in Layout?

Maybe someone else will chime in. Perhaps I am not understanding the question.

Surrealist.
04-23-2008, 10:56 AM
I have to animate a little pond, so it shouldn't be that difficult, but since I've neer done it before, I need a bit of help.
I thought I could animate it via the bump channel: right now I have the turbolence procedural applyed. What parameter should I animate to achieve a decent result? Since it's a little pond I don't want to use displacement, I want just a slight movement.
Or should I think of a different approach?Thanks for hepl!

What exactly are you trying to achieve in your animation? From this information it is not clear what you want the water to actually be doing and under what conditions your water will be existing.

For instance a small pond on a windy day will get several wisps of tiny little waves that span the width of the pond and move rapidly across in a rhythmic but random succession.

On a calm day it would be virtually like glass however if you look at it you sill see tiny little concentric disturbances from tiny bugs, or fish.

On a day with moderate breeze you might have an overall wavy disturbance.

All of this would depend on the depth of the water and the size of the pond as well as it's location and habitat.

If you could be more specific with the effect you want, it will be much easier to help you I think. Also it would be helpful to know if you are going for a realistic look or something more like a cartoon.

Mitja
04-23-2008, 11:46 AM
On a day with moderate breeze you might have an overall wavy disturbance.

That's what I'm talking about!
And I would like it to be moderately realistic, not cartoonish: just - nice.

dbigers - I tryed the Y position stuff and it works (I never thought it would) so big thanks, though I can't find the right setting anyway...
If you could just send that little scene ... I would be grateful forever!!! Well, until death... :D

Mitja
04-23-2008, 12:30 PM
Ok, ok, seems like I'm getting some results. And it seems pretty nice.

Mr dbigers, if your offer is still valid, I would like to take look at your technique anyway...

cheers

dbigers
04-23-2008, 01:24 PM
Ok. No problem, I will see what I can find with regard to a pond. Been a while since I did a pond. Soon as I get in from work this evening.

I was baffled too when I read a tip years ago about animating the 'Y' value. But if you think of it in reverse and imagine the plane moving up or down through the 3D texture volume, then you see that the surface will be different depending on where you intersect the volume. Think of the 3D texture as an infinite cube volume. The plane is just slicing it at that height.

dbigers
04-23-2008, 09:38 PM
Here is a quick 5 minute test I threw together. Not an award winner for texturing or lighting, but it was a quick 5 minute hack. Hopefully it helps a bit. Just set the antialiasing to your needs and render out the 60 frames.

Note the size of the bump texture, then note the distance that it moved in the position envelope. Your water or scene may be bigger and thus you will need to adjust the position envelope on yours to reflect a percentage like this one. This one has movement on the Z axis as well. You can remove that if you want to see what the Y alone does.

Hope it helps. I have some much better scenes with water, especially ocean scenes, but I couldnt find a pond.

Surrealist.
04-23-2008, 10:41 PM
That's what I'm talking about!
And I would like it to be moderately realistic, not cartoonish: just - nice.

dbigers - I tryed the Y position stuff and it works (I never thought it would) so big thanks, though I can't find the right setting anyway...
If you could just send that little scene ... I would be grateful forever!!! Well, until death... :D

In that case I think you would find the Crumple texture good for water.

bbigers: That's a nice scene.(especially for a short test) However it does not look as much like water, almost line a mud flat. If you did the same thing with the crumple texture, it would look a little more like water.

To your test scene all I changed was the texture to Crumple.

1) Turb 2) Crump

Mitja
04-24-2008, 02:47 AM
Thanks dbigers, the scene was very useful, though I changed the texture to crump as suggested Surrealist: much nicer! Anyway, I'm stil tweaking all the stuff so keep an eye here ;) !

Mitja
04-24-2008, 03:50 AM
Oh, I forgot to ask this: what about animating the size? Have you ever tryed?

dbigers
04-24-2008, 06:39 AM
I usually use crumple as well, especially for Ocean scenes. I used turbulence because you mentioned that in your original post. Sometimes I will take a turbulence and stack crumple on top of it for a layered effect. If I do that I will often animate the crumple in Y and the underlying Turbulence in another axis. That can be pretty convincing.

I have not had any good results animating the scale. It just doesnt look natural. Good luck with the project.

dbigers
04-24-2008, 06:46 AM
bbigers: That's a nice scene.(especially for a short test) However it does not look as much like water, almost line a mud flat. If you did the same thing with the crumple texture, it would look a little more like water.

To your test scene all I changed was the texture to Crumple.

1) Turb 2) Crump

Agreed. The only reason I used turbulence was because the OP mentioned that was what they had used. Most of the time I use crumple as well. For oceans scene especially.

I was more concerned with showing the enveloping of the position than it being realistic water. To be realistic the "floor" of the pond would need to have a nice texture that could be refracted by the water, incidence on transparency and reflection, etc. Mainly a motion test.

Surrealist.
04-24-2008, 10:04 PM
OK, cool. Sorry to have assumed something. :)

dbigers
04-25-2008, 06:05 AM
No problem. :)