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BazC
04-15-2008, 02:38 AM
I never upgrade my copy of Vue 5 Infinite but now there's a special offer on, I'm not sure if Vue 5Infinite LW copy qualifies but the upgrade prices have been halved!

I've heard some say that Vue 6 on Mac is a mess of bugs and crashes, worse than 5 which was never that stable for me anyway! Other's say that the latest version (6.5) is stable.

Anyone here have any experience?

3dworks
04-15-2008, 04:30 AM
I never upgrade my copy of Vue 5 Infinite but now there's a special offer on, I'm not sure if Vue 5Infinite LW copy qualifies but the upgrade prices have been halved!

I've heard some say that Vue 6 on Mac is a mess of bugs and crashes, worse than 5 which was never that stable for me anyway! Other's say that the latest version (6.5) is stable.

Anyone here have any experience?

vue 6.5 OSX seems to be rather stable here, but i can't recommend at all vue xstream OSX, which is still under heavy development - and not production ready in any case. apparently they are working hard now to fix all the issues with LW UB, but i'd stay away from it at the moment - at least if you intend to use it exclusively with OSX. there are much less problems with it under bootcamp/ windows, though.

markus

Phil
04-15-2008, 04:39 AM
I don't particularly rate Vue 6 and it's one upgrade I regret - the workflow and UI remains as poor as in 5.x.

6.5 is OK, but 6.60 introduces a number of nasty threading bugs which lead to render corruption (horizontal lines through the render). I don't remember Vue 6 crashing ever (Ozone 3.x is pretty damn buggy though)

Vue's engine renders very slowly and AA remains pretty hopeless and woe betide you if you click on the render window whilst it is in progress. I am unable to see any render performance increase in Vue 6 compared to Vue 5, which is really surprising and disappointing.

That said, the ability to paint ecosystems and plants is a draw. If I were to push for one major improvement for the next version, it would be a standard UI and a major revamp of the way the render system handles AA - some form of AS would be really really useful to keep render times down to realistic levels whilst delivering minimal flicker.

I find the UI to be so frustrating, though, that I really haven't pushed this program in the way I expected to. I now end up using it to export plants for use with HDinstance in Layout (resizing in each case as Vue seems to treat feet as meters on export), high resolution textures for use with infiniMap, and HDR skies for use in LW.
Ozone 3 delivers decent volumetrics in LW except it is poorly integrated (no integration with other volumetrics, buggering all hope of working with instances or HVs - XStream has the same problem)

I guess it depends what you have as the target use. I just don't see myself upgrading Vue in future...

BazC
04-15-2008, 04:55 AM
Thanks guys, that pretty much settles it I'll upgrade and see how it goes. I've no intention of getting X-stream, way overpriced in my opinion. I've got a job coming where it will save me about a week of work providing it doesn't crash all the time.

Tony3d
04-15-2008, 04:56 AM
I never upgrade my copy of Vue 5 Infinite but now there's a special offer on, I'm not sure if Vue 5Infinite LW copy qualifies but the upgrade prices have been halved!

I've heard some say that Vue 6 on Mac is a mess of bugs and crashes, worse than 5 which was never that stable for me anyway! Other's say that the latest version (6.5) is stable.

Anyone here have any experience?

downloaded the demo and found it is so riddled with bugs I could barely use it. Everytime I do something I have to move the mouse before action really happens. Is this fixed? Certainly no good for a production flow. There were a meriod of other crashes , and bugs to many to mention. I need this software at some point. What I need to know is if this software in version 6.5 running on my MAc Pro with an ATI HD2600XT video card is much more stable than the Demo, and if the mouse over thing has been corrected. Version 5 was really stable compared to what I have seen of 6. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Where did you see the upgrade prices cut in half? I just looked and it seems to be the same for 6.0 infinite. Seems to be for Pro Studio.
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BazC
04-15-2008, 06:18 AM
Hi Tony, I've just replied to your PM but yes, the reduction was for Pro Studio. It doesn't seem that different to Infinite but is MUCH cheaper, Infinite diesn't seem worth the extra cost (or risk!) to me.

BazC
04-15-2008, 07:22 AM
I just downloaded the demo and played around for half an hour or so and it seems to work better on my machine than 5 did., I couldn't find a version number, maybe they've updated the demo to 6.5?

Lone Deranger
04-15-2008, 07:33 AM
Hi Phil I found your comments very interesting and was wondering if you could elaborate a bit on your findings between using Vue and LW+HDI2.
How would you compare for instance the render quality, or the placement of plants etc.


I now end up using it to export plants for use with HDinstance in Layout (resizing in each case as Vue seems to treat feet as meters on export), high resolution textures for use with infiniMap, and HDR skies for use in LW.

BazC
04-15-2008, 07:37 AM
Just tried to purchase and Vue5 Infinite isn't eligible for upgrade to Vue6 Pro Studio :(

Phil
04-15-2008, 08:18 AM
Hi Phil I found your comments very interesting and was wondering if you could elaborate a bit on your findings between using Vue and LW+HDI2.
How would you compare for instance the render quality, or the placement of plants etc.

Hmm. I'm only looking for general forrestation to break up skylines and provide spot greenery where needed (driven by a PFX partigon emitter and the %age controls in HDI2), so am not concerned with ecosystem type controls. I've not tried exporting landscaped geometry, although that's something I intend to play with shortly - if I can generate truly massive landscapes and textures, that would be very interesting indeed.

For the plants, I could have gone with surface based instancing, but the performance hit was going to be a pain, so I went with the old approach. Recent updates to HDI2 should improve this, but I haven't had time to check.

Be aware that there is significant hit in some cases with instancing instances in HDI2. I've seen, worst case, a hit of 60x on the render time compared to instances of geometry (for a cityscape created the same way, with 50 base objects and a total of something like 2 billion polys when you count all instances). Graham knows about it and is working to address it, but I don't expect this to the be so severe in all situations.

Exporting from Vue is easy enough and I simply crank the quality and resolution settings over to maximum. Geometry is dense, but that doesn't imply great quality - the detail is all provided by alpha maps that get applied to the transparency channel. I was surprised by this, especially given the size on disk of the object files.

The resulting images get pushed through infiniMap's convertor to reduce memory load. The surface setup is then migrated into nodal infiniMap setups which work very nicely with HDInstance 1.8.1 and 2.0.x

I was driven to this approach, compared to my original plan of compositing Vue renders into place by the poor render quality for render time in Vue. By bringing the objects into LW, I get the control back over the render quality and can apply fog, etc. as needed whilst integrating any other effects I care to use. By using HDInstance and infiniMap, the memory load is minimised and I can render enormous amounts of scenery without having to fight Vue. I can also drop the render on the renderfarm without pain.

As for caveats :

- Vue has total disregard for real world scale. This was also true in 5.x - importing and exporting seems to work with no regard to world units, so in my case a 75 foot tree ends up 75 m tall in Modeler. *sigh*
- Dense geometry does not imply detail - you certainly don't get any real detailed geometry out, even where you might expect it (e.g. the trunk). All leaves are basically created by 4 point polygons that have their transparency manipulated. All topology is achieved through surfacing.
- A single UV map is defined for the entire object. I've not checked to see if it overlaps, but it really wouldn't surprise me.
- The output alpha PNG looks to be a little strange, so infiniMap's convertor currently chokes on it. Mike's aware of the problem.
- There is no root system on the trees. The trunks end up as blobs where the roots should be. Surprising.
- Vue export can be very slow. You'll often think it has hung, but it hasn't yet.
- There is no normal map created, so forget about expectations of detailed bark surfacing. You do get a bump map, though.

Tony3d
04-15-2008, 09:32 AM
I just downloaded the demo and played around for half an hour or so and it seems to work better on my machine than 5 did., I couldn't find a version number, maybe they've updated the demo to 6.5?

One thing I have noticed is everyone who complains about the mouse over refresh thing has an ATI video card. That seems to be the one constant. If that problem were fixed I'd order it right now.

RonGC
04-16-2008, 02:21 PM
Vue6 Infinite 6.5 is super stable on my macs both PPC and intel.

Ron

BazC
04-17-2008, 02:08 AM
Vue6 Infinite 6.5 is super stable on my macs both PPC and intel.

Ron


Thanks for that Ron, downloading the 6.5 update now! :D

Tony3d
04-17-2008, 04:19 AM
Vue6 Infinite 6.5 is super stable on my macs both PPC and intel.

Ron
Ron which Intel Mac do you have, and what video card? Are you having that mouse issue?

RonGC
04-17-2008, 12:07 PM
Im running Vue6I on my 24" Imac. Display ATI,RadeonHD2600. 256 vram. 4gb main Memory installed. Not having any mouse problems. Running the most current version of Vue.

Each version of Vue has been getting better for stability and bug removal, before version 6.5 i was having a lot of stability problems but Eon has fixed almost all of the issues.

I do not have xstream as yet but will probably upgrade soon.

Ron