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OOZZEE
04-14-2008, 01:49 PM
Just saw Don Ballance on Speed Edit.... loved the presentation and the humor !!!!

JeffrySG
04-14-2008, 01:52 PM
What's the link for the feed?

OOZZEE
04-14-2008, 01:59 PM
http://www.newtek.com/nab/

enter your email and click the button

Terry Rhodes
04-14-2008, 02:12 PM
What are the tricks to getting the full stream? Only getting Audio here in Johannesburg, South Africa. Anyway to get a lower level stream? Getting 96kbs only. Sound is great, no video.

Elmar Moelzer
04-14-2008, 02:14 PM
Hey Ozzeee! Watching now!
There does not seem to be any audio though (might just be because it is inbetween presentations it seems).
CU
Elmar

mikala
04-14-2008, 02:14 PM
Just saw Don Ballance on Speed Edit.... loved the presentation and the humor !!!!
Would have been better if they would have shown the video clips more at the end rather than watching the Don watch the clips and drink Mountain Dew.

Randall Chesbro
04-14-2008, 02:15 PM
I take it that there isnt an upgrade comming for speed edit?

OOZZEE
04-14-2008, 02:21 PM
watch through IE - I had trouble too but tried again and option came up to watch inside Internet Explorer and then I got Audio and Video.

amospro
04-14-2008, 02:27 PM
Wow, looks good and it looks like the Tricaster Broadcast is in HD.

OOZZEE
04-14-2008, 02:28 PM
Kiki Hot Chick !!!! I like Tricaster

OOZZEE
04-14-2008, 02:37 PM
wow Im impressed with the live shadow onthe LIVE SET and reflections

beverins
04-14-2008, 03:16 PM
Their server seems to have died?

beverins
04-14-2008, 03:17 PM
someone at the booth should have a cheap laptop with a wifi signal monitoring the boards for comments. REBOOT YOUR SERVER!

mikala
04-14-2008, 03:25 PM
She's back now.

archijam
04-14-2008, 03:26 PM
Streams here fine with VLC Player ...

Kinda weird to watch actually ;)

chrisrockwell
04-14-2008, 03:59 PM
Kiki is back, making the feed unwatchable.

mikala
04-14-2008, 04:00 PM
Kiki is eternal. Does this woman ever age?

chrisrockwell
04-14-2008, 04:10 PM
Nor does she get any better. Stupid jokes, talking over other people. What is Newtek thinking?

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 04:24 PM
http://www.newtek.com/nab/

enter your email and click the button
Man, Oh Man!!!
Oh, how I could wish someone would closely check into the horrific distortion caused by the demo artists "eating the mic" on the [email protected] demo stage during the [email protected] live web stream.

Please, folks, fix that handheld microphone audio with a compressor if you must! Its sound level is way too hot! It's almost frying my brain. (Is phantom power within TriCaster Broadcast(tm) turned on while it should be off, given the type of mic in use, perhaps?)


The resultant audio distortion truly makes for an unprofessional web stream with that glorious TriCaster BROADCAST unit! Utterly difficult to watch and listen.

:thumbsdow
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 04:32 PM
Nor does she get any better. Stupid jokes, talking over other people. What is Newtek thinking?Well -- to be candid, her voice isn't creaking and raspy as it was in 2007, and moreover, she has cleaned up her vocabulary quite admirably, prior to demoing this year and last! ;D

-PeterG

amospro
04-14-2008, 04:33 PM
I agree with Peter. Just give him a Lav or Headset Mic.

beverins
04-14-2008, 04:44 PM
I guess I love to rag on Newtek's presentations... It's because I love them, dammit, and I wanna see them do better.

I can appreciate how hard it is to be a presenter. 8 hours of talking, have to be excited and eager-sounding. You have to remember your presentation, flawlessly handling any bugs that occur with smooth ease.

One huge positive is that the live streams are back. Will we have these for Siggraph too? PLEASE?

Good choice with interviews. Good job there.

Good job with the LiveSet.

Tricaster demos have some NEW stuff that's interesting to see. And smoothly done for the most part.. .

But, being that I prefaced this with "love to rag on Newtek"... sigh
1) The SpeedEdit demos are the same demos I remember from 5 years ago when they showed it on the Tricaster from before it was SpeedEdit. Isn't there ANYthing else SpeedEdit can do? The stuff Don shows is very nice and fast, truly showing the Speed... but 5 years guys. No new material? What else can this thing do?

2) I know that the Tricaster is a complicated beast, but the presenters should never, ever have a period like they did on day 1 here where they forgot how to do a slow-mo off the DVR. They admitted it was user-error, and yes, they got 3 hours of sleep, I can empathize... Newtek is a scrappy tough company, and they are up against big guns, their schedule is harsh and humans are fallible. They are trying as hard as they can, but honestly... would you see a demo from Sony with gaffes like this? It comes with rehearsal. REHEARSE, guys. I can appreciate being completely worn out and brain-blasted and being forced to go onstage and operate a highly complicated piece of equipment under pressure - who wouldn't futz things up? But rehearsal would have prevented this, because once it becomes something where you don't have to think you can operate on automatic.

3) Umm... if Siggraph has a SpeedEdit and 3D Arsenal demo, where's the Lightwave demo at NAB? Did one come on? I sure didn't see it... anyone got a schedule? And no, 3D Arsenal does not count. Autodesk is there, showing their animation stuff AND their video stuff. Maxon is there showing Bodypaint. Can't we show some LW at the end of the day, just one showing per day? Correct me if I am wrong.

beverins
04-14-2008, 04:48 PM
This boxing interview is fascinating... but umm.. I guess its cool to let him talk about boxing, he does know his stuff. LOL He should have brought some of his footage that he made with the Tricaster... :-)

mikala
04-14-2008, 04:53 PM
I'd like to have seen them push Lightwave a bit and vary up the presentation a bit more. Cycling through the same schpeel over and over was tiresome.

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 04:55 PM
I agree with Peter. Just give him a Lav or Headset Mic.
There seems to be no one seriously monitoring the audio being fed to the Stream input. (I'll bet a "tech" is paying attention to audio to the on-location audience only!)
To wit: Kiki's audio is so low, the noise floor of my VT workstation is louder than her voice mix, right now.

Aaarrrh!!
:ohmy:
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 04:57 PM
LOL He should have brought some of his footage that he made with the Tricaster... :-)
'Ya think?
Dohh!

They need to EQ Rex Olsen's voice, by pulling out some of the Low EQ. Now there's some alien audio feed leaking into the stream while Kiki's trying to talk...
:confused:
-PeterG

Jim_C
04-14-2008, 05:04 PM
I gave up watching.

I didn't learn much watching presenters either stand there and do nothing while things happened around them or constantly point to and explain things off camera that remain off camera.

The presenters for the live room seem to be doing fine but the presentation being directed for the streaming audience is pretty thin imo.

SBowie
04-14-2008, 06:34 PM
It's Monday .. NAB Mondays are always a train wreck ...

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 06:48 PM
Wow, looks good and it looks like the Tricaster Broadcast is in HD. Hhhhruhuh?

How so, Amospro? Doesn't look Hi-Def in my humble opinion.

Wait. Are you making that suggestion simply due to the widescreen output? Your TriCaster STUDIO, being SD only, can of course do that.

NewTek really, really needs someone to man the audio controls -- in fact, better still, they need to plug all external audio sources into TriCaster Broadcast(tm), and have a sound tech monitor audio, with headphones or an amplified loudspeaker monitor.

They're utterly dropping the ball on the audio side of the stream, forgetting to turn down the level, somewhat, of pre-recorded VCR clips, so they don't compete with the on-stage demo artist..
-PeterG

JamesCurtis
04-14-2008, 06:50 PM
I'm hearing 2 audio feeds and only 1 video. What's going on?

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 06:57 PM
I'm hearing 2 audio feeds and only 1 video. What's going on? It's what I was referencing just moments ago:

Turns out, the stream is actually a LIVE audio and video presentation (or a pre-recorded A/V clip) of Rex Olsen interviewing a producer --

Meanwhile, there's a live presentation that Kiki Stockhammer is giving the audience, whose video we're not getting, but audio only!

Both audio sources are being fed to the outgoing stream, wasting many people's time.

Aaaaarrrrhh!!:2guns::lol:
-PeterG

JamesCurtis
04-14-2008, 07:16 PM
Think I'll try again tomorrow! Very frustrating!!

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 07:44 PM
It's Monday .. NAB Mondays are always a train wreck ...
Sorry. Given the cost of an NAB booth, this performance is utterly unacceptable, Monday or no!


1. NewTek should pay some tech staffers to get some sleep, if need be -- so as to be on hand to aid those who *don't*.
2. Get someone to man an external audio mixer (for external audio sources)
3. Don't stream live, from the very same TriCaster, that the demo artist is using; Instead, let the demo TriCaster unit provide a clean A/V output to the Streaming TriCaster.
4. This proposed, "Streaming TriCaster" ought to handle the audio input from external sources, so a tech, who's had plenty of sleep, and who gives a hoot, can give the world-wide streaming viewers the audio they're looking at -- and at appropriate levels.
5. Like someone said, Practice, Practice, Practice!
6. :sleeping: Demo Artists Must be Required to Get appropriate Sleep!

Else, place each external audio source (read: microphones) on their very own compressor/noise gate device, and let that unit control audio on and audio off; audio levels from every on-stage mic, be it lavalier, handheld, or what-have-they.

The world ought not be turned off, on the very first day of this huge opportunity to show their might and engineering prowess, due to lack of poor planning and execution borne out of sleep deprivation. Inexcusable.
:cry:
-PeterG

SBowie
04-14-2008, 07:55 PM
Sorry. Given the cost of an NAB booth, this performance is utterly unacceptable, Monday or no!And yet it happens to everyone, including in my experience all the big names who literally spend millions and go through lots of rehearsals. I've done it many times and it takes awhile to settle into a routine. There's a reason for what the Navy refers to as a shakedown cruise, but there's no opportunity for that at NAB.

You need to try it sometime, Peter ... walk a mile in those shoes before judging. :2guns:

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 08:05 PM
And yet it happens to everyone, including in my experience all the big names who literally spend millions and go through lots of rehearsals. I've done it many times and it takes awhile to settle into a routine. There's a reason for what the Navy refers to as a shakedown cruise, but there's no opportunity for that at NAB.

You need to try it sometime, Peter ... walk a mile in those shoes before judging. :2guns::stop:Heck! I'd be *glad* to man an appropriately-set-up audio station for the live feed next year, if they'd let me! Bet'cha you won't get the audio confusion we got this here, Monday.

Remember, this issue seems to be borne out of
1. lack of a multichannel audio compressor, placed in-line with each external audio source (read: mics),
2. utterly poor hand-held mic technique by demo artists, and
3. an apparent failure to even man (or woman) the audio mixer at all!

Do you think a client, who has a one-time-only live streaming opportunity at a major annual meeting event should rest on the "walk in our shoes" mantra, after having been subjected to simple audio gaffs like those witnessed this very day?

Yeah. I didn't think so.

:thumbsdow
:caffeine:
-PeterG

SBowie
04-14-2008, 08:29 PM
I'm not saying it can't be improved; and I've little doubt it will be. That said, I've never seen one I thought was really well done. Even so, Monday is always full of glitches and pratfalls, and the and issues to be surmounted unbelievable. Just dealing with the unions would put most people on medication. Armchair quarterbacking is not an heroic sport.

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 08:33 PM
Armchair quarterbacking is not an heroic sport. Oh, but it's fun sport! :D
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-14-2008, 08:37 PM
I'm not saying it can't be improved; and I've little doubt it will be. That said, I've never seen one I thought was really well done. But no one here is asking that it be "really well done" at all. Instead, that someone monitors what's going out audio-wise, and video-wise, and be awake to the degree that they can respond quickly when audio is horrid, or when two loud audio feeds from two different demos are being streamed simultaneously to the same world-wide audience, watching some unrelated video.

Truth be told, that's not asking for much at all -- especially if a couple of with-it persons were assigned to that very task.
Heck, Stever! Put Phil on the phone! :D
:phone_cal
-PeterG

Verlon
04-15-2008, 02:01 AM
not watching the streams..have we learned anything new?

SBowie
04-15-2008, 06:59 AM
.. and be awake to the degree that they can respond quickly ...Holy cow. Have you ever even been to NAB, Peter? The people working the show aren't fully 'awake and able to respond', and won't be again until a week after they return home. It's completely exhausting on every level, and their attention is torn in two dozen directions by people (the small and the great) and misadventures (small and great.)

It's not a fixed installation, has to be assembled quickly, by people who have countless other responsibilities and very little time. And it's not like there's a computer and video supply store next door if something breaks or was overlooked, damaged in shipping, etc., etc. (It can take a half hour just to get to the door, and many hours to get someplace where you can purchase something.) You can plan, but it's like war - and it is said that 'No (battle) plan survives first contact with the enemy.' Like I said, I've seen much greater snafus by people who threw truckloads of money and talent at NAB.

As nice as it would be to see the stream be a fine exemplar, you can be sure that the audience demanding attention on the floor at any moment is far larger than the one watching the stream - esp. on day one. And that's where the priority will go. (Maybe one day that will change, but not this year, or next year, or the one after that.)

Monday is all about getting the kinks out. It's the same for everyone there. The stream is low priority by comparison. Want to see it improved? Sure, absolutely ... but get off the high horse and cut them a bit of slack.

beverins
04-15-2008, 07:06 AM
I hope they are doing better today!

I honestly think that they should try to sneak in more of Lightwave.

How about using 3DArsenal with Lightwave 9.3.1 off a laptop attached to the Tricaster's VGA input? Kill several birds with one stone there.

1) shows the Tricaster's ability to input VGA feeds
2) would show off 3d Arsenal
3) would show off Lightwave's abilities, like photoreal motionblur and its compositing power. Hell, maybe its slightly disingenuous, but use Fprime. INSTANT RENDERS. That'll wow the crowd.

SBowie
04-15-2008, 07:19 AM
1)The stuff Don shows is very nice and fast, truly showing the Speed... but 5 years guys. No new material? What else can this thing do?At NAB, Demos focus on the 'bullet points'. Audiences are huge, noisy competition from nearby booths makes fine detail hard to convey. Many people stop by for a few minutes during a presentation because they checked off 'NewTek' on a long list of things to see, and if you don't engage their interest very quickly they keep moving. So overall, these presentations are purposefully quite simple, not in-depth examinations for those who may already have the product and are looking for the deeper things. When a new feature is sufficiently eye-catching, it will usually be included - but we're not seeing SE 2.0 at this show, so ...


... would you see a demo from Sony with gaffes like this? It comes with rehearsal. REHEARSE, guys.Yep ... and Apple too, right on the big mega-bucks stage. Heck, we've seen bigger gaffes from Bill Gates in front of thousands (oops.)

I hear what you're saying, and over the years I've seen NewTek try all sorts of things (remember the year of the 'professional presentations'? Gaaahhhhh .....) But for my money, the Don and Ralph show was always one of the best in town, bumps included. It's the rebel alliance, after all - not the empire. :D

SBowie
04-15-2008, 07:22 AM
I see I accidentally caught you in mid edit. :)

Nicely done, appreciate the diplomacy (not that I really found fault with your original post, just commenting on a couple of the points from it.)

beverins
04-15-2008, 07:31 AM
Well, it was a double post, the original is earlier in the thread. :-) I dunno what happened - I clicked the back button and it made a double post a whole day after the original. LOL

But good points all. I just wish they would show Lightwave more. Yes, I know NAB is a show for video... but Newtek has to compete with companies like Autodesk who have their fingers in a lot of pies the same as Newtek does.

Autodesk is showing Maya and Motionbuilder in addition to Combustion and their Flame, Flint and Smoke machines. Maxon is also there showing Bodypaint 3D.

I'm not asking for their presentations to be more Lightwave-centric. In fact, I'm a little upset as well over them not showing the VT 5 in all its glory. My problem is when they show SpeedEdit and 3DArsenal, they have a BEAUTIFUL opportunity to show Lightwave's strengths, even to a crowd of people they percieve as people who think 3D is something they could never learn. Show the DOF, show the photoreal motionblur... and show it rendering in realtime with Fprime (announce that it is an extra plugin, but WOW! Look what it can do!)

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 07:34 AM
It's not a fixed installation, has to be assembled quickly, by people who have countless other responsibilities and very little time. And it's not like there's a computer and video supply store next door if something breaks or was overlooked, damaged in shipping, etc., etc. In all frankness, Steve, any live presentation -- and especially one that's live-streamed, demands a certain modicum of attentiveness, for the stream to go at least reasonably well.

NewTek demo artists are fully capable of ceasing from blasting a mic diaphragm with plosives due to eating a Sennheiser handheld, and from not having anyone man the audio mixer.

(Again, is phantom power turned on, for those dynamic mics? If so, turn it off!)

Any way you cut it, yesterday's audio issues (not to speak of the mindless video switching, or total lack thereof at times) are inexcusable.

Give NewTek the benefit of the doubt that they're not so busy or so tired that they would utterly not monitor what they're streaming out to the world.

They are professionals, only their demo artists could use a bit of coaching on how to speak into a mic.

Plus, someone has got to man the audio mixer, prior to and during at least the early portion of each demo segment. This alone would mitigate against having a spurious Audio and/or Audio/video source roaring away on another audio channel via a TriCaster "VCR", while a Live demo is in progress.

One does not have to experience a live-stream-to-the-world event to know that good planning and monitoring are essentials for a successful transmission, regardless of how busy or exhausted much of the staff may be.

As for the lack of a Radio Shack nearby -- a modicum of good planning anticipates such lack. And by the way -- I wouldn't buy a needed multichannel audio compressor from that place, even if they sold one. :hey:
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 07:46 AM
As nice as it would be to see the stream be a fine exemplar, you can be sure that the audience demanding attention on the floor at any moment is far larger than the one watching the stream - esp. on day one.

Name one person who, in this thread, is even remotely alluding to some notion of expectation of "exemplary" streaming? Have you seen the hard data on the max number of persons even *attempting* to watch that horrific stream?
-PeterG

beverins
04-15-2008, 07:46 AM
The thing about yesterday's performance, for me, showed that the Tricaster is not that simple to operate. Well... duuh... but let's put it this way...

Newtek are advertising this thing as the "run and gun" studio in a box. Slam it on a table, whack in the cables, power on, and we're LIVE and ROLLING!! In some cases, a live shoot really does give you all of 30 minutes to setup, while you are tired from a long flight where you got 3 hours of sleep. And you don't get a redo. You have got to be on target, or you simply fail to get hired again.

With the glitches and gaffes we saw, it shows to the audience that this machine - as powerful as it is - is not as foolproof or easy to use as they purport it to be... at least to the audience's perspective. They don't care. They live this life every day, and I'm sure some of the people in the audience yesterday walked away muttering "what a dog and pony show this is, I would never have made those mistakes". Doesn't matter that they would actually be doing the same gaffes if they were under that kind of pressure....

beverins
04-15-2008, 07:48 AM
Name one person who, in this thread, is even remotely alluding to some notion of expectation of "exemplary" streaming? Have you seen the hard data on the max number of persons even *attempting* to watch that horrific stream?
-PeterG

All I know is that the computer that was doing the streaming to the internet crashed at least once, and was unable to handle the amount of people accessing the stream for awhile. Hope they take care of that one.

And you know, that might actually be something they want to showcase. Show how fast the Tricaster can "get back on the webcast" after the streaming server dies.

SBowie
04-15-2008, 07:58 AM
One does not have to experience a live-stream-to-the-world event to know ... I greatly doubt NewTek or any other participant thinks of NAB as a "live-stream-to-the-world event." At this point in the history of the world, the 'stream' part is a minor sidelight - even for a product that bills streaming as one of several major features.

Check how many developers of streaming products are listed among exhibitors. Then check how many are streaming during the show. Then check how many are streaming live. (Hint: the answer is a very, very small number.) Some of the biggest news in streaming this year involves Adobe's AMP - try and find Adobe's live stream from NAB.

Nevertheless, even if NAB were a "live-stream-to-the-world event," evidently you do ("have to experience it to know") ... or we'd not be having this discussion.

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 08:04 AM
I hope they are doing better today!

I honestly think that they should try to sneak in more of Lightwave.

How about using 3DArsenal with Lightwave 9.3.1 off a laptop attached to the Tricaster's VGA input? Kill several birds with one stone there.
I'm not all that comfortable with using iVGA for full-motion video, due to the fact that ethernet really isn't up to the task, generally.

I could be wrong here, so anyone, feel free to straighten me out. On the other hand, beverins makes a powerful point, of looking at ways NewTek could easily leverage the time spent on a particular demo, by taking employing several of the latest NewTek technologies at once, in demo setups.

PeterG

SBowie
04-15-2008, 08:08 AM
All I know is that the computer that was doing the streaming to the internet crashed at least once, and was unable to handle the amount of people accessing the stream for awhile. Hope they take care of that one.

And you know, that might actually be something they want to showcase. Show how fast the Tricaster can "get back on the webcast" after the streaming server dies.Scaling to handle the demand is entirely on the content delivery provider they are using. An so, in the case of a Push stream (which they are certainly using) is automatically reconnecting. That said, of course a crash of the TriCaster (or someone simply tripping over the plug) would interrupt the stream. But getting back 'on the air' is a matter of a minute or two, from the TriCaster end.

The thing is, if you read back, most of this thread consists of complaints about the "production" - not the stream itself. The fact is you can slam a TriCaster on a table, hook it up and go.

The quality of the program is a different matter. And again, could it be better? Sure. Will it be? Very likely. But let's get real. Are some glitches in content quality the equivalent of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse? Could any one of us have done better in the exact same setting? We'll each have to answer those two for ourselves. ;)

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 08:13 AM
I greatly doubt NewTek or any other participant thinks of NAB as a "live-stream-to-the-world event." At the awful risk of sounding like Jeremiah Wright's defenders, you've taken the words out of context.

What was being communicated is that NewTek's taking the initiative to bravely go where few (if other) streaming product developers dare to go: that is, making their [email protected] opportunity a live-stream event opportunity to demo their wares -- ought to be properly planned and executed. That's all.

Why? On the basis that they're doing what most other companies aren't is just one salient reason they should monitor their quality of audio and video mix going out.

Success at that critical juncture helps bolster increase NewTek product sales, irrespective of any persons' notion that the Live-Stream activity in NewTek's booth is not important. :hey:
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 08:30 AM
The quality of the program is a different matter. And again, could it be better? Sure. Will it be? Very likely. But let's get real.
:confused: Most of the concerns expressed herein do not involve the quality of the program at all.

Contrariwise, they involve an easily solvable technical matter regarding the utter lack of quality of the handheld microphone audio. Simple az'at.

Now that's on the real!:hey:
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 08:35 AM
Could any one of us have done better in the exact same setting? ;)
Most easily.
:thumbsup:
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 08:39 AM
...could it be better? Sure. Will it be? Very likely. ;)
Not if someone doesn't take a seat and monitor the meters, and adjust a fader or two every now and then. Let's get real.
:confused:
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 08:41 AM
I greatly doubt NewTek or any other participant thinks of NAB as a "live-stream-to-the-world event." Ah, but Steve -- What of the thinking of the viewing public -- like the dude from South Africa who posted last night, eh?
:neener:
-PeterG

SBowie
04-15-2008, 08:43 AM
Most easily.I reserve my opinion on that one. :)

And by mentioning 'a dude', you're just making my point. It's a question of the relative importance of competing interests. Iimprovement would be nice, but it ain't the end of the world, and NewTek is not a bunch of incompetents, certainly any less so than others here. Yet you wouldn't get those points by reading many of the posts above.

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 08:57 AM
I reserve my opinion on that one. :)

And by mentioning 'a dude', you're just making my point. It's a question of the relative importance of competing interests. Iimprovement would be nice, but it ain't the end of the world, and NewTek is not a bunch of imcompetents, certainly any less so than others here. Yet you wouldn't get those points by reading many of the posts above.[bold emphasis, mine. -p.g.]Tee-hee! Did you misspell those two words deliberately, and for effect?

(These two terms, taken together -- represent some considerable tension, not in contradistinction to my earlier implying that we ought to give Newtek staffers at the event the benefit of the doubt: that they are not incompetent nincompoops. Only inattentive.)

"I guess I love to rag on the sour points of NewTek's streaming presentations... It's because I love 'em, Boy Howdy -- and I wanna' see 'em do better!"*.

[Adapted from Beverins without prior, written permission.]
:D
-PeterG

JonCrowe
04-15-2008, 08:57 AM
When a presenter points to, or talks to something or someone off camera, the streaming audience should see what's going on. Even if it's a generic wide shot. Plus I didn't notice a full-screen computer shot in the stream, just a camera shot of the presenter with the projector image behind them.

My 2 cents.

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 09:04 AM
I reserve my opinion on that one. :)

And by mentioning 'a dude', you're just making my point. Not at all, Steve. Your isogesis of my statements are getting you nowhere, in this chummy discourse.
:confused:
:ohmy:

To wit:
Earlier, you surmised that we're in agreement. We're not, friend. Whereas you've expressed that "improvement would be nice", this writer is clear: "improvement is necessary".

NewTek doesn't make TriCaster and VT streaming technology so technical abusers can stream any 'ol audio and video signal, anymore than NewTek provided those famed, cheezy 'Falling Sheep' and similarly contrived VideoToaster effects, so anybody's Grandma' can abuse them in their edits for subsequent broadcast!
:D
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 09:21 AM
And by mentioning 'a dude', you're just making my point.:thumbsdow And by ignoring the context of my use of "the dude" (note: it wasn't "a dude" as you so imagined) -- you singlehandedly demonstrated a bit of intellectual dishonesty in this discourse did you not?

'Fact is, the interrogative:

Ah, but Steve -- What of the thinking of the viewing public -- like the dude from South Africa who posted last night, eh?
:neener: ...which you so craftily misrepresented, consists of a significant antecedent to the phrase "like the dude from South Africa...".

That antecedent (the viewing public) is plural. To emphasize the extent of that plurality, I just happened to introduce some evidence of same, via referencing the South African contributor to this very same thread.
-PeterG

SBowie
04-15-2008, 09:32 AM
Clearly, there are a lot more than a handful (or busload) of 'dudes' in the face of the presenters at any given moment. Arguing otherwise is just silly.

I just finished reading several comments by others (and not 'fanboys') to the effect that the stream quality was good, so evidently not everyone subscribes to a dismal view.

As to the 'production', it would certainly benefit a great deal from a director - exactly the same as other years. But I've watched Aussie trying to manage this all, unaided and harangued by countless distractions, and I know he's doing what can be done given the circumstances. I seriously doubt there's anyone here who - on his own and given the same resources and environment to work with - would do much better. The rest is a matter of priorities and allocation of resources.


REHEARSE, guysAt NAB, Monday IS the rehearsal.

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 09:32 AM
:thumbsdow And by ignoring the context of my use of "the dude" (note: it wasn't "a dude" as you so imagined) -- you singlehandedly demonstrated a bit of intellectual dishonesty in this discourse did you not? Forgive me, Steve, for straining at a gnat there. Your use of "a dude" wasn't meant to be a quote. I relent on that one.
:bowdown:
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 09:35 AM
Clearly, there are a lot more than a handful (or busload) of 'dudes' in the face of the presenters at any given moment. Arguing otherwise is just silly. You just don't get it, do 'ya?
:twak:
By "the viewing public" -- and that taken in its proper context, mind you...:hey:

I was clearly referring to the potentially growing numbers of internet viewers throughout the day -- while not at all disparaging the notion of the presence of folk resting their tired dogs (feet) -- occupying hard-surfaced steel chairs before the [email protected] soundstage...:hey:
-PeterG

jcupp
04-15-2008, 10:04 AM
I had dinner with, among others, Tim Jenison and Chuck Silber last night (Lawry's Prime Rib, best in the universe Thanks! Tim) and apparently the load-in and setup was a disaster. It sounds like the computerized lights they are using in the booth were a major problem and since the lights are hung on a truss above the booth it was probably necessary to get them sorted before setting up everything else and this threw their battle plan for a loop.

SBowie
04-15-2008, 10:30 AM
I was clearly referring to the potentially growing numbers of internet viewers throughout the dayWhat's to get? I would eat my desk if that number came remotely close to comprising a small fraction of the number of audience members physically in the vicinity on any single NAB day. As of 2008, net viewers are still a pittance by comparison, and many of those are 'the faithful.' I'm not saying it has no importance, just that in perspective this is a tempest in a teapot. To read this thread you'd think it was a major catastrophe.

As I just wrote elsewhere,I'd like to see this taken to another level for the future, too ...get the content dept. to crank out some suitably themed graphics in advance, put a little dedicated crew on it at the event .... make it shine. But this thread is overblown.

SBowie
04-15-2008, 10:31 AM
... and this threw their battle plan for a loop.In other words, a typical NAB Monday. Thanks for confirming.

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 11:26 AM
What's to get? I would eat my desk if that number came remotely close to comprising a small fraction of the number of audience members physically in the vicinity on any single NAB day. But nowhere in this discussion had I even alluded to making a full-day comparison of all booth attendees to a full-day's worth of Internet viewers of the stream.

Instead, the insistence on the need for a modicum of quality audio and video output to the stream has much value. It means that NewTek's entire audience -- whether immediately on-site -- or watching from afar, can have something worth watching (and hearing) --Jeff Cupp's valuable insider-insight on technical difficulties yesterday notwithstanding.

And judging from your baseless appeals to "...give 'em some slack, it was only Monday", a solid audio and video mix would've made for an atypical [email protected] Monday, by your estimation, huh?
:twak:Look this way, Steve! :D

:tsktsk: Naw!

:compbeati The other technical difficulties would've yet been at play; whilst the abominable, unattended audio and video out to stream didn't have to be -- especially with cool folks, of competent stature and geeky prowess as NewTek staffers.
:thumbsdow
-PeterG

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 11:41 AM
To read this thread you'd think it was a major catastrophe.

That's what you don't get. It Wuz hugely major! We're talkin' webcasting via TriCaster BROADCAST here! 'Tain't no mickey-mouse Z-Brick of a stream box!

Yeah. It was major. Likely so -- for even the small numbers (if we are to trust your pseudo-Nielson instincts) of folk who were aghast at the outright confusion of two very different and incongruous audio sources blaring out into their cozy web-viewing spaces at dotted locations around the globe.

Hah! 'Wonder to what degree some of that additional and useless audio data exacerbated the smooth-playback meltdown during the final few hours of technical malfeasance.
:2guns: :lol:
-PeterG

SBowie
04-15-2008, 12:15 PM
Problems, yes To an unusual even among the foremost exhibitors, no. Importance - relatively minor. I've stated my point, I'm not going to bother repeating it further. 17 more yards of playful icons isn't going to modify my view.

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 12:17 PM
17 more yards of playful icons isn't going to modify my view.:cursin:

Weetos
04-15-2008, 12:43 PM
Don really needs adjusting his mic - his voice sounds very satured and this just doesn't do justice to the show. Please do something about it :twak:

Weetos
04-15-2008, 12:48 PM
Anyone ? NT, come on, I mean this is barely bearable

beverins
04-15-2008, 01:09 PM
So far, a good show.

I agree, the audio is... eh.

Interview needs VISUAL AIDS. (edit) ah I see he does.!

I guess they aren't equipped onstage to actually demo Lightwave and 3DArsenal more than a lame video B-roll ad. This is a dirty rotten shame.

beverins
04-15-2008, 01:11 PM
I guess taking down the greenscreen (the motorized screen is cool!) is so the audience doesn't have to watch the green... but...

Let's think how to make these interviews much cooler.

Oh, I dunno...

Something called a VIRTUAL SET?

Whatever... oh, and the main center camera needs to have better framing for the interview, or have the people sit closer together.

It's the LITTLE THINGS...

CreatvGnius
04-15-2008, 01:40 PM
So far, a good show. I agree, the audio is... eh...
I agree with your observations; I've been thinking I might have a good idea just what the trouble with the constant audio clipping might be:

Hypothesis:
Those wired lavalier, handheld Sennheiser and Journeyman mics perhaps have their respective "gain pots" cranked up excessively high.

The possible result:
The audio tech perhaps, "sees" a decent VU reading the audio mixer, but ambient noise on the show floor impedes his/her monitoring the audio via monitor speakers.

1. Perhaps, headphones at the TriCaster's monitoring facilty, with Channel Solo engaged, would clearly provide the needed audio performance feedback, alerting the tech to the constant distortion heard throughout many of these otherwise viewable stream demonstrations.

Or perhaps,

2. As suggested earlier, phantom power switches are inappropriately set.
Both of these scenarios might yield a decent read on the TriCaster BROADCAST Audio Mixer VU meters, though the sound may excessively clipped at the point of input to TriCaster.

-PeterG

OOZZEE
04-15-2008, 02:10 PM
my comment for the day.... Don Ballance shouldnt say that LW is daunting !! its easy to learn... If I can learn it, anyone can !!!!!

beverins
04-15-2008, 02:24 PM
my comment for the day.... Don Ballance shouldnt say that LW is daunting !! its easy to learn... If I can learn it, anyone can !!!!!

Wait until you hear him say that at Siggraph! :devil:

OOZZEE
04-15-2008, 02:29 PM
Wait until you hear him say that at Siggraph! :devil:

what will happen then ?

robewil
04-15-2008, 02:38 PM
This is NAB. The percentage of graphics/3D people in the audience is low. This is where Newtek is all about Tricaster, SpeedEdit, and 3D Arsenal. Most of the people watching these presentations know cameras, lighting, production, and/or editing. They aren't likely to want to get into the intracacies of Lightwave.

Don is marketing to the target audience correctly.

beverins
04-15-2008, 02:40 PM
what will happen then ?

The force will carry the cries of a hundred thousand Lightwavers as they release a collective sigh of frustration. :lol:

mikala
04-15-2008, 03:01 PM
Enough repetition already.
It's as bad as being at Costco and having those aggravating peoplemercials at the ends of the aisles selling crap.
Get at the very least some vids of 9.5 features up there!

beverins
04-15-2008, 03:45 PM
Finally, a 3DArsenal demo.

Shows none of the features of 9.3.1 or 9.5, but I guess it's a start...

mikala
04-15-2008, 03:50 PM
Surprise surprise

beverins
04-15-2008, 04:01 PM
This is NAB. The percentage of graphics/3D people in the audience is low. This is where Newtek is all about Tricaster, SpeedEdit, and 3D Arsenal. Most of the people watching these presentations know cameras, lighting, production, and/or editing. They aren't likely to want to get into the intracacies of Lightwave.

Don is marketing to the target audience correctly.

Not saying there should be an indepth Lightwave demo. Integrate it with the 3DArsenal.

But how about showing off what it can offer to video people during a 3DArsenal demo? It doesn't have to be something long winded. Show the Depth of Field and the MotionBlur OpenGL... mention you're using 9.5, exciting new product, works with 3DArsenal. Little things like that. Show them the RealLens Camera on one of the 3DArsenal scenes. Wouldn't that excite a few people?

I see now that they are playing some very nice 3D animations done with Lightwave as an intermission. Thank you!

cresshead
04-15-2008, 04:12 PM
vids are playing okay here in u.k.
tricaster looks rocking!...i wish i had the spare cash for it...woud put it to good use with venus rises and cg based sets on the show.

beverins
04-16-2008, 12:33 PM
Well, today's stream was pretty good. They started getting into their flow.

Still needs more variance in their material. I did like how Kiki showed some impetus in that regard. Don is great, but needs to loosen up his shtick a little. Ralph was good yesterday on the 3DArsenal demo, would have been nice to show some Lightwave features in the process - it's not like you can't plug LW while you're plugging 3DArsenal

beverins
04-16-2008, 02:36 PM
Wow, Datalink! Took the interview to bring out the news about DataLink for the Tricaster... I can understand no mention of Rendition, I can sigh and understand very little mention of Lightwave 9.5... but this is a Tricaster product for the summer. :tsktsk:

sigh

CreatvGnius
04-16-2008, 03:15 PM
Well, today's stream was pretty good. Quite good, actually! Did you notice Don Ballance's reference to the VT[5] workstation that's part of the demo pod setup they've got behind the stage?

Nice going, NewTek, Nice indeed.
-PeterG

SBowie
04-16-2008, 04:24 PM
This is a very cool feature. It's more flexible than you'd imagine just hearing what's been said so far, too. Check out John's post today for down the list a bit for a little more detail.

Jim_C
04-19-2008, 08:48 AM
What happened to all of Peter's(creatvgnius) posts in this thread?

They have 'poofed'.

cresshead
04-19-2008, 08:59 AM
next time they showcase live set how about adding some more intersting sets other than news and weather sets with some sci-fi sets..even outdoor sets made in lw...

i'm sure there's more to live set and tricaster than local news channels wanting it...with 'live feedback' on monitors i'm sure that some independant sci fi shows could add live set for green screen sets that also give the actors a live feedback to how they look in the green screen sets
either straight after their take or have a monitor 'on set' so they can get a feel for the invisible set they're working in.

next time i see live set i hope there's some new sets showcased!

archijam
04-19-2008, 09:41 AM
What happened to all of Peter's(creatvgnius) posts in this thread?

They have 'poofed'.

It's a glitch in the matrix ....

archijam
04-19-2008, 09:43 AM
next time they showcase live set how about adding some more intersting sets other than news and weather sets with some sci-fi sets..even outdoor sets made in lw...

i'm sure there's more to live set and tricaster than local news channels wanting it...with 'live feedback' on monitors i'm sure that some independant sci fi shows could add live set for green screen sets that also give the actors a live feedback to how they look in the green screen sets
either straight after their take or have a monitor 'on set' so they can get a feel for the invisible set they're working in.

next time i see live set i hope there's some new sets showcased!

That's actually a really good point, Cress .. just think of long run, low budget, one set, 'dialogue based' series like Red Dwarf, they would jump at the capabilities ..

CreatvGnius
04-19-2008, 02:48 PM
What happened to all of Peter's(creatvgnius) posts in this thread?

They have 'poofed'.

Hi, Jim. I'm particularly impressed by your posting your perceptive perplexity over my presence having "poofed"!

:thumbsup:
-PeterG
p.s.: "Day Three" was a real testament to a modicum of good micing and switching practices, for potential customers to watch via live stream. Kudos, and thanks on behalf of all your devotees, [email protected] crew! :thumbsup: