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Serling
04-12-2008, 08:15 PM
Couple of things I've notice lately working on some projects:

1. Even with World Coordinates UNchecked in Modeler, moving an object with an image map keeps the image map locked to the coordinates specified under the Position tab. This means that moving an object with an image map in Modeler causes the image map to change on the surface of the object (the map is locked, the image is moving). This is frustrating the hell out of me because I want to model several objects for a scene and roughly position them in relation to each other before I take them to Layout, and I don't want image maps changing the way they look. Any ideas on why this is happening?

(BTW, when I try to specify a reference object, that tab is "greyed out" meaning it won't take any input from me.)

2. I've left all my default keyboard settings unchanged. With that in mind, why is F3 "Rest on Ground" in Modeler, but in Layout F3 cycles through viewport changes? (And I can't seem to find the command for "Rest on Ground" in Layout). F9 in Modeler brings up the Presets Panel, but in Layout the same keystroke brings up something entirely different. Any idea as to why this is working the way it is? Keyboard shortcut standardization anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Will post a recent sample later. Just wanted to address some of these really frustrating issues.

Dexter2999
04-12-2008, 08:26 PM
1. http://members.shaw.ca/lightwavetutorials/texturing.htm
Start here to learn about UV mapping. You will need to scroll a little more than half way down.

2. It is what it is. Don't know what to tell you. In Layout I am doing something completely different than what I was doing in Modeler so it never occurred to me that the shortcuts don't match.

IMI
04-12-2008, 10:20 PM
In Modeler, unless you don't plan on moving an object, it's best to use a UV map for your images. That's the only way to pin your texture maps in place.
I can feel your pain. :) I used to texture with image maps in Modeler too, but somewhere along the way completely stopped doing so. It really is better to do it in Layout and, after all, that's where it matters most, anyway. The image maps will "stick" on the model in Layout, even without a UV map, even if you move it.
The downside to using UV maps for simple image maps is that you can't rotate, scale or move the textures without altering the UV map itself. UV maps are essential for characters and anything more complex than a plane, not so necessary for floors and walls and simple shapes.

There is no "rest on ground" in Layout. Why? No idea. There ought to be, and it's one of the thousands of arguments one might make for a merging of Modeler and Layout into one single complete program, but....... for now you have to adjust that in Modeler, or in Layout visually or numerically. I suppose you could set up a collision to achieve it, if you felt so inclined

GATOR
04-16-2008, 12:56 PM
I always considered this annoying too. I keep hoping with each upgrade somebody will do the obvious and make the image maps stick. I can't think of a reason NOT to.

But meanwhile, you either get used to not moving things until Layout, building them in place, or UV mapping things.

manholoz
04-16-2008, 01:39 PM
Or at least a "stick to mesh" option, for backward compatibility reasons.

Surrealist.
04-16-2008, 08:21 PM
Couple of things I've notice lately working on some projects:

1. Even with World Coordinates Unchecked in Modeler, moving an object with an image map keeps the image map locked to the coordinates specified under the Position tab. This means that moving an object with an image map in Modeler causes the image map to change on the surface of the object (the map is locked, the image is moving). This is frustrating the hell out of me because I want to model several objects for a scene and roughly position them in relation to each other before I take them to Layout, and I don't want image maps changing the way they look. Any ideas on why this is happening?

(BTW, when I try to specify a reference object, that tab is "greyed out" meaning it won't take any input from me.)

2. I've left all my default keyboard settings unchanged. With that in mind, why is F3 "Rest on Ground" in Modeler, but in Layout F3 cycles through viewport changes? (And I can't seem to find the command for "Rest on Ground" in Layout). F9 in Modeler brings up the Presets Panel, but in Layout the same keystroke brings up something entirely different. Any idea as to why this is working the way it is? Keyboard shortcut standardization anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Will post a recent sample later. Just wanted to address some of these really frustrating issues.

At first this sent me for a loop too. Even though I have been using Modeler for 15 years. But then I realized why this is and it totally made sense. Because it used to be there was no Surface Editor in Modeler. You did it all in Layout. When I first started trying to surface in Modeler I had the same reaction until I thought about it for a moment.

I think you will be less frustrated if you realize exactly how image maps are applied and the fact that the Surface Editor used to only be in Layout. And the reason that World Coordinates is in the Surface Editor in Modeler but gray'd out is because it is a Layout-only function and could never ever be anything you would do in Modeler. And there is a very good reason for this. The reason it is there is because you can surface in Modeler and in Layout, but this particular function does not work in both applications.

Now the way image maps work is that they attach themselves to the "world" coordinates" in Modeler.

The model has its XYZ within the space of modeler. When you create a model, that's it. That's the coordinates. The image is applied to the XYZ space not to the geometry itself because that is all of the information that is needed in Layout. To do it any other way would be pointless because when you export the model to Layout, it retains the XYZ information locally while it is being moved though XYZ space in layout. Two different things.

And when you surface in Layout, same thing. It applies the image map to the XYZ space of the model, and that information travels with the model though the XYZ space of Layout - unless you check World and then it will stick to the XYZ of Layout.


UV maps were created not to solve this "problem" because there is no problem really. They were created to give more advanced surfacing techniques for complex models that needed more treatment than what the standard image mapping could provide.

Seems to me that to provide a "stick to" button would be well, I think it would be impossible. Because you'd have to tell it what to stick to. Because all you have is a 3D space with a bunch of points in it. How is Modeler to know what points to stick it to? When you apply an image map you are applying it to XYZ, not this point, that point and so on. To do that you have to tell Modeler which points. And that is what UV mapping in essence does. You select portions of your model and place them in the UV map so that the program now knows what you want the image to stick to.

Hope that makes some sense.

Surrealist.
04-16-2008, 09:15 PM
Oh and another thing. I see this misconception all the time. It is a terminology as well as a conceptual issue.

An "Object" in Modeler is the Layer, not the contiguous mesh of a piece of geometry within the layer. It is the entire layer with it's center at 0,0,0.

An object in Modeler consists of many layers of "Objects" treated as separate objects in Layout unless you are surfacing. In this case all of the surfaces of all of the layers are treated as one object.

So if you are in a layer and you take a ball and move it, you are not moving the object, you are moving connected points contained within the object.

You will notice that if you move the pivot point for a layer, the object mesh retains its location in layout but you now have moved the place from which the object can be animated.

The objects center always remains at 0,0,0. And this is true of any image maps even if you move the pivot.