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Etch
04-03-2008, 10:39 PM
So as the title implies I've been learning to draw lately, I've heard it's a pretty useful skill for 3d.

Basically just some doodles/digital stuff I've been working on. I would love if you guys could throw out some tips/critiques to help me get better.

I was also wondering if anyone could recommend a good drawing book. I've been reading over the book "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" it's been great so far but I'd like a few different books to pull and learn from.

So anyways here's the stuff I've been working on, remember, still learning...

Oh and by the way, those things floating in water are octoroks from The Legend of Zelda. Just so ya know.


57116571135711457115

colkai
04-04-2008, 02:14 AM
Well you're doing better than me, my drawing still looks like the scribblings of a 3 year old. :(

Though I guess if I had time to practice more often it'd be helpful. I did draw better when I was at school some >mumble< decades ago so I reckon keep at it and you'll move in leaps and bounds. You're at least on the right book, it has a great reputation.

meshpig
04-04-2008, 05:09 AM
Etch

How do you mean "drawing", more precisely? It's hardly pronounced in any artistic sense these days...

-Drawing nudes in a wanky class full of middle-aged women trying to get laid is hardly it.

-"Drawing on the Left side of the brain" is essentially a lot of literary crap...

- Technique is all you've got or you don't need any?

Look at the "Draftsmen" in History; beginning with the caves in Lascoux/lascaux

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Lascoux&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Then the Ancient Greeks, the Egyptian Artisans etc. as in take a leisurely tour of art history because all the visual concepts are there.

It isn't just about representing or perspective (which is just one kind of line breaking the foreground and clamping diagonals) drawing is the activity of lines.

If you appreciate that it hardly matters whether you find them in a 3d app or a pencil and paper.

The trouble with visual culture is that it's also entirely invisible, but as a species we are to visuals as dogs are to smells. As in 'lines' to me are a kind of pre-installed piece of human software, if that analogy is plausible?

The Bezier Spline, for example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_B?zier

is the car designer's equivalent of the Naval Architect's beam; a system of placing weights on a metal beam to get the curve of a ship's hull right (before computers).

But also there are other dimension to lines; the "Gustav" line, the "Gothic" line, or the "Front" like in War.

-The "Arabesque", the "Egyptian" in aesthetics etc.

All the lines in mathematics...

Man, that's drawing and don't you just love it !!!! That's why people hand children pieces of paper and crayons.

m:thumbsup:

rakker16mm
04-04-2008, 05:43 AM
Mesh I think you had a typo in your URL.


The Bezier Spline, for example

was this the link you meant to post? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Bezier

rakker16mm
04-04-2008, 05:48 AM
Etch,

I like the first and third sketches the best. The first has lots of promising observation to it and the third has a lot of humor. Books are great to get you started and I would definitely recommend haunting the local library. The most important thing is to keep at it.

meshpig
04-04-2008, 07:16 AM
Mesh I think you had a typo in your URL.



was this the link you meant to post? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Bezier

Thanks rakker,

-I'm pretty sure I'm the only Legally Blind person using LW, ( any others correct me please!)... yeah that's the one, thanks!

-"Lines" are hard-wired into your visual cortex at a very early age. I can't see 'straight' lines or curves for that matter now because I don't have any active cells in the Macula anymore, which focuses detail.

It's really hilarious because "straight" lines are an illusion anyway, they are simply an idea because they don't really exist in "nature" and when you lose the particularly human capacity of seeing them you can appreciate it more.

I can see why Turtles didn't come up with Trigonometry; sophisticated
eyesight allows for straight lines (absolute detail/cones ) which I'm pretty sure not many other animals have. Without being able to comprehend a straight line, how would you find the perfect circle?

Drawing is not by any means an expression of optical vision, but an instinct closer to thought. I mean if you woke up dead somewhere in an Hospital what would be the first thing you looked for?

The lines on the ceiling, the lines on the wall, then contours then yeah sure
meshpig go have another Pinot Gris?

m

loki74
04-04-2008, 12:13 PM
at least on the stuff you have on paper, my first suggestion is to try and make longer, sweeping, definite strokes. Unless you're trying to make a fuzzy texture, I'd recommend against using short, fuzzy strokes.

for the objects like the controller, axe, sword, anvil, etc, try blocking out the general shape first, in perspective, then fill in the details. I won't bother delving into how perspective works, as you should be able to easily find load of information on it on the internet. Even more organic shapes can be blocked out in such a manner, but I find doing so to be much more difficult.

Also, are you drawing from reference? If not, I recommend you do.

the only thing else I can say is... practice practice practice....^_^

Etch
04-04-2008, 12:29 PM
Wow, thanks for all the help guys, it's great.

MeshPig: I think your definitely right, the single biggest jump I ever made in my ability to draw was to realize that I need to draw what I'm experiencing instead of what I think I'm seeing. Still working on it, but I'm getting there.

Loki74: I've been thinking the same thing for a while, bigger more confident strokes would be better. When you say "block out then fill in the details" do you mean that I should just put down a quick look alike to what I'm drawing and then refine the lines, or draw the basic contour and then fill in the detail within the actual drawing?

Thanks again for your guys input!

loki74
04-04-2008, 01:31 PM
Lay out a blocky, basic version of ur shape... it's difficult to put complex shapes into perspective, but if you break it down into groups of simpler shapes, you'll prolly have an easier time giving it perspective & depth.

Also (& ur 3D experience will help w/ this), don't think just about what's visible to the viewer--think about all of the precluded/obscured sides of the subject as well.

androidmaker
04-04-2008, 02:15 PM
I like the one on the right, it looks like what will happen to Q-bert after Global warming.

bluerider
04-04-2008, 05:34 PM
Etch,
I take two days of an bah, I see a great thread. Thanks for starting this.

I would like to put a couple of basic drawing video links up about basic techniques. loki74 made some great points about sweeping strokes blocking the basics out first etc.

meshpig,
Hes bringing some good philosophical aspects in but has such a casual self effacing style, I basically enjoyed reading your posts.

bye for now.

Costanel
04-06-2008, 06:58 AM
For a good book, try "drawing for dummies" and the rest of the books of this author. It covers the basics and it'll get you up to speed fast.

It all depends in what style you want to learn to draw, do you want to draw manga, realistic-copying, creating new things? There are a lot of books, all covering different styles. First think of what drawing tools you prefer, it can define your style.

For good vid.tutorials, check the gnomom tutorials about drawing, or "the structure of man" video's(google it)

I've got a lot of tutorials, books and materials here at home(never posting anything here though), so if you need advice for a certain style, just say so.

btw: for programs on drawing(instead of paint) I'll recommend Painter/Gimp for realistic and Xara Xtreme(easy to learn and very fast!) for Vector drawings.

Sorry, too busy to look up all the links...

trentonia
04-09-2008, 12:56 PM
You may also want to check out this site. It could give you some good ideas. Your sister might like it too. http://www.drawspace.com/

bluerider
04-09-2008, 01:33 PM
Costanel,
Couldn't agree more, "drawing for dummies" is a great book.

trentonia,
Thanks for providing that link, excellent resource.

Puguglybonehead
04-09-2008, 09:27 PM
Andrew Loomis produced some of the best books on drawing. Anybody can learn to draw well from them (well, except maybe boneheads like myself). "Figure Drawing For All It's Worth" is one of my favorites.

The Bad News: All of Andrew Loomis's books are out of print now, no longer published. :(

The Good News: They are from so long ago, that they are now in the Public Domain and can be freely downloaded from a number of online sources. :)

like this one (http://www.artcone.com/forums/andrew_loomis_books_downloads-t1772.html)

BigHache
04-10-2008, 04:26 PM
Being left-handed, I always draw on the right side of the brain. :2guns:

One thing I always notice with folks either learning to draw, or who do not frequently draw, they tend to apply a lot of pressure in all of their strokes. I tend to sketch very lightly, then go over darker and darker as needed. One thing that allows for is ease in changing as you go. I'm very non-committal when it comes to drawing.

In its simplest definition, drawing/art is communication. Figuring out what you're trying to communicate may help you in arriving at your goal in your illustration.

bluerider
04-10-2008, 04:55 PM
Andrew Loomis produced some of the best books on drawing. Anybody can learn to draw well from them (well, except maybe boneheads like myself). "Figure Drawing For All It's Worth" is one of my favorites.

The Bad News: All of Andrew Loomis's books are out of print now, no longer published. :(

The Good News: They are from so long ago, that they are now in the Public Domain and can be freely downloaded from a number of online sources. :)

like this one (http://www.artcone.com/forums/andrew_loomis_books_downloads-t1772.html)

Wow thanks, awesome link.

colkai
04-11-2008, 01:53 AM
One thing I always notice with folks either learning to draw, or who do not frequently draw, they tend to apply a lot of pressure in all of their strokes. I tend to sketch very lightly, then go over darker and darker as needed. One thing that allows for is ease in changing as you go. I'm very non-committal when it comes to drawing.

Watched a program the other night about an autistic savant here in the UK who did a full backdrop of London, he did the same, hist first 'draft' was a seemingly random mass of squiggles from which he slowy but surely drew out the scene.

Amazing to watch for any artist, regardless of his condition. My wife (like me a lefty, unlike me, an artist :p ), was captivated by it.

Etch
04-11-2008, 06:24 AM
Wow all these resources you guys have pulled together are gonna be a huge help to me.

I plan to sit down over the weekend and get some stuff done, I've definitely got my work cut out for me.

Etch
12-08-2008, 02:16 PM
So after 6 months of intermintet practice and a semester of drawing I, I decided to post a few of the images I've been working on lately. Maybe my final in a couple of days when it's finished.

669896698866990

geothefaust
12-09-2008, 11:04 AM
Nice Etch, great work there. :thumbsup: Where did you take your class at, out of curiosity? Keep it up, you've already surpassed a number of artists I know that draw (myself included, lol).

Puguglybonehead, I agree. Andrew Loomis' books are great. I was trudging through that very site some time ago, having them so easily at your fingertips is great. It really prompted me to purchase a number of his books so that I could have them on the go.

Etch
12-09-2008, 05:21 PM
Geo: Thanks for the compliment! I'm currently enrolled at Missouri State University.

bluerider
12-09-2008, 10:30 PM
Hello Etch,
Thanks for posting your drawing. Keep us up to date by posting more examples as the weeks pass. :)

geothefaust
12-10-2008, 08:25 PM
Geo: Thanks for the compliment! I'm currently enrolled at Missouri State University.

Right on, well you're doing pretty darn well. :thumbsup:
Hope to see more of your work soon.

PS- I love the Octoroks! Zelda rules...

bazsa73
12-15-2008, 12:14 PM
Hi Etch,
Study the artwork of this site.
http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/2001/ASOPA/bad_art_good_art1.asp

wacom
12-15-2008, 04:44 PM
"Learning to draw..." Is a funny statement to me now, because I realize as an illustrator (I never said a good one!) that being an "artist" means a life long pursuit of the unattainable. What I'm trying to say is no matter what your level, you should always be "learning to draw" in a sense, or you're not pushing yourself.

Here are my 2cents...

Try to think in volumes and when that fails...shapes. Think of lines as a farce that you have to live with that try and describe shapes and volumes. Try to think in terms of "constructive" drawing while being keen to observe. DO NOT become a camera- experience the subject and use knowledge of what things are to aide you.

I say these things because I was taught how to "draw" in school in a very de-constructive way. I became fairly good at copying what I was looking at- but I didn't realize until later, when I needed to create things out of my head for concepts etc. that I had no understanding of what I was seeing.

That being said, try as MANY different forms of "drawing" as you can. Stick with the one that interests you most, or has the potential to get you to your goals quickly, but always re-visit the ones you thought were useless or too hard- you'd be surprised at what things "click" after you gain more experience and you've discovered a new need for what once you thought was meaningless. The most important thing is to observe and draw as much as you can- regardless of what the subject is. There is no correct "way" only your final image!

I find that the Vilppu (http://www.vilppustudio.com/) method of seeing and working is a nice balance of current techniques and renascences knowledge. There are many others who have a similar approach though- so search around for one that fits your mentality and experience level...

I'd also implore you to try and "paint" things, using nothing more that a loose background sketch to start and build on, to help you think in terms of light and shade, volume an shapes. In the olden days (like 10 years ago) this was kind of unattainable for the average poor artist...but with a cheap pen tablet and gimp/ps etc. you can learn a lot VERY quickly while still adhering to more traditional painting methods etc. If you have a Nintendo DS or Ipod touch/iphone, look into getting a copy of colors! to use as a "painting sketch book". I find this is a great way to learn and experiment do to its sense of impermanence if need be! Granted it has you doing VERY small gestures...which is harder esp. for new artists...

Visit the colors! gallery and watch people make their drawings! VERY informative and you can learn a lot from watching others!

http://colors.collectingsmiles.com/

You have to click on the image and scroll down to get the play back going...

Again- the most important thing is to draw in a way that you like, and draw things that motivate you to draw as much as possible! Be that naked woman, hay stacks, or thumb tacks...

Etch
12-20-2008, 11:14 PM
So here is my badly scanned final and some doodles I did in my new sketch book. Got a book on different graffiti styles across the world and was attempting to integrate some of the techniques to my own style. It's a lot more fun than drawing random still life #384.

Wacom: Ya I have the colors! program on my ds, it's a lot of fun though I haven't produced much with it. I have a 12 hour drive tomorrow so I'll probably spend at least a couple of hours trying it out.

6737967380

edit: the gimp broke my second image I'll have to rescan it when I get back.

bluerider
01-02-2009, 09:13 AM
"Learning to draw..." Is a funny statement to me now, because I realize as an illustrator (I never said a good one!) that being an "artist" means a life long pursuit of the unattainable. What I'm trying to say is no matter what your level, you should always be "learning to draw" in a sense, or you're not pushing yourself.

Here are my 2cents...

Try to think in volumes and when that fails...shapes. Think of lines as a farce that you have to live with that try and describe shapes and volumes. Try to think in terms of "constructive" drawing while being keen to observe. DO NOT become a camera- experience the subject and use knowledge of what things are to aide you.

I say these things because I was taught how to "draw" in school in a very de-constructive way. I became fairly good at copying what I was looking at- but I didn't realize until later, when I needed to create things out of my head for concepts etc. that I had no understanding of what I was seeing.

That being said, try as MANY different forms of "drawing" as you can. Stick with the one that interests you most, or has the potential to get you to your goals quickly, but always re-visit the ones you thought were useless or too hard- you'd be surprised at what things "click" after you gain more experience and you've discovered a new need for what once you thought was meaningless. The most important thing is to observe and draw as much as you can- regardless of what the subject is. There is no correct "way" only your final image!

I find that the Vilppu (http://www.vilppustudio.com/) method of seeing and working is a nice balance of current techniques and renascences knowledge. There are many others who have a similar approach though- so search around for one that fits your mentality and experience level...

I'd also implore you to try and "paint" things, using nothing more that a loose background sketch to start and build on, to help you think in terms of light and shade, volume an shapes. In the olden days (like 10 years ago) this was kind of unattainable for the average poor artist...but with a cheap pen tablet and gimp/ps etc. you can learn a lot VERY quickly while still adhering to more traditional painting methods etc. If you have a Nintendo DS or Ipod touch/iphone, look into getting a copy of colors! to use as a "painting sketch book". I find this is a great way to learn and experiment do to its sense of impermanence if need be! Granted it has you doing VERY small gestures...which is harder esp. for new artists...

Visit the colors! gallery and watch people make their drawings! VERY informative and you can learn a lot from watching others!

http://colors.collectingsmiles.com/

You have to click on the image and scroll down to get the play back going...

Again- the most important thing is to draw in a way that you like, and draw things that motivate you to draw as much as possible! Be that naked woman, hay stacks, or thumb tacks...

Great post wacom :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Liber777
01-05-2009, 01:14 PM
It was written about a century ago, but I love this book:

'The Practice and Science of Drawing' - Harold Speed

http://www.amazon.com/Practice-Science-Drawing-Harold-Speed/dp/0486228703/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231186256&sr=8-8


Looks like this is the current edition:
http://www.amazon.com/Practice-Science-Drawing-Harold-Speed/dp/8562022160/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231186256&sr=8-4

bluerider
01-13-2009, 03:33 PM
It was written about a century ago, but I love this book:

'The Practice and Science of Drawing' - Harold Speed

http://www.amazon.com/Practice-Science-Drawing-Harold-Speed/dp/0486228703/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231186256&sr=8-8


Looks like this is the current edition:
http://www.amazon.com/Practice-Science-Drawing-Harold-Speed/dp/8562022160/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231186256&sr=8-4

Looks like a great recommendation. I read the Excerpt from "The practice of Science of Drawing", fascinating.

artmaster
01-14-2009, 02:00 AM
Pick up some books on cartooning and comic book art tutorials they will teach you a lot.

Art

artmaster
01-14-2009, 02:01 AM
pick up some books on cartooning and comic book art tutorials they will help you a lot.

art

bluerider
01-14-2009, 09:31 AM
pick up some books on cartooning and comic book art tutorials they will help you a lot.

art

I am interested in what you consider definitives in this category. Would you like to list them, if that's OK of course. :thumbsup: