PDA

View Full Version : Lack of energy from Lightwavers



robk
03-18-2008, 10:29 PM
Each night after browsing the Newtek forums I take a quick look at the Modo gallery page. Just about every night there are few new gallery shots posted and sometimes as many as 5 or 6. Is their community that much more active than ours? I go to their gallery once a night while I can't even remember when the last month I visited Lightwave's official gallery (not the forums)
I have to admit that the Luxology boys kick the Cr*p out of the Newtek boys when it comes to promoting their product.
Having dabbled with Modo lately and seeing they have a long way to go to reach the features of Lightwave why do they seem to generate such a buzz about their product and when I check the lightwave forum all I see is the same old stuff in some forum categories, i.e. Architectural which is our line of business sometimes goes days without new posts. Is it because all Lightwavers are too busy making money from projects to post their stuff or are they all obsessing about when 9.5 is coming out.
Is our attitude creating so much negative energy that it seems we are going nowhere fast.
Now I know Chuck said we were going to get 9.5 in early March and Paul said get ready in a few days (been more than a week of business days). But why don't we just focus on the positive like the release of Hd instance 2.0 (a little pricey but it kicks butt)

It's time to post some renders to show those Modo W**nies we are still alive and kicking.
Apologies to the Modo W**nies in our office. Didn't mean to offend.


I will be posting something when I get to work tommorrow :thumbsup: :newtek: :thumbsup:

-EsHrA-
03-19-2008, 02:42 AM
the hype is gone...

nt needs to fix us more hype.


mlon

colkai
03-19-2008, 07:59 AM
Is their community that much more active than ours?

Is our attitude creating so much negative energy that it seems we are going nowhere fast.

I think it's a valid line of thought & questioning.
I personally think that, for whatever reason, there is a huge wave of negativity at the moment and even I myself find I am not excluded from it.

Historically, I don't think I've ever seen the LW forums, wherever it is represented, produce anywhere neat the amount of art that the XSI / Modo / Max forums seem to, why that is I cannot say.

Maybe LW has just reached a point where we are at a pivot, how things tip will determine a lot of individuals reactions. Who knows, if things go well, maybe we will see a rise in the level of work being 'shown'.

Either way, assuming said negativity doesn't flood this thread, interesting point. No mistake though, as you say, Modo marketing kicks butt all over the place. I've even seen cases where the hype wasn't backed up, but still people talk of the hype. At the end of the day, a good salesman should be able to sell Ice to the Eskimos, not just the guy living in the desert. ;)

4dartist
03-19-2008, 08:34 AM
I agree with the 'people are too busy making money'. :)

When in college I used Maya and posted all the time.. Questions and artwork, and ideas etc. But now that I'm working load of hours cranking away all day in lightwave, I just don't have as much time to do that. If any.. I like to peek on here now and again during renders or when I get stuck, but as for extra stuff, I rarely get to.

Steamthrower
03-19-2008, 08:39 AM
Energy is usually found from hobbyist users. I don't mean to be harsh or anything, but the community activity in ANY graphics software community I would guess has a pretty high rate of amateurs, or at least people who don't do 3D as their full-time job. If it's your job you're less likely to want to spend your extra time doing your job...like an accountant doesn't hang out in accounting forums on the weekends and doesn't upload his cool spreadsheets for others to see...

robk
03-19-2008, 08:49 AM
As said here a a couple of quick test renders using HD Instance 2.
I am using Dosch 3d flowers and I am placing the flowers on a 3d sub-d'ed plane by using 4 weight maps on the plane for flower placement. times for these renders are about 1 min 47 secs with interpolated final gather radiosity, 1 bounce and no AA. As I said they were just tests showing the weight map feature new to HD Instance 2.0.

Enjoy:) :D :newtek: :thumbsup:

Titus
03-19-2008, 08:49 AM
Well, I can't post most of my work here and maybe this is the case of many of the people who lives doing 3D. Besides, not all my work is good or special.

theo
03-19-2008, 09:17 AM
Get a couple of kids, a mortgage and a busy lifestyle and software is no different than the Bosch jigsaw out in the garage, hence my personal view of galleries as nothing more than a mere fleeting amusement.

I don't view galleries at all, anywhere, typically, unless the work has been produced for 'real' money under 'real' time and budget constraints. Unfortunately, most of images produced under the previous specs are under NDA or the producers have little time or energy to post. The few that do slip through the cracks are, obviously, interesting to me but due to the energy required to find them I won't look unless NT or others posts a link to pro-level stuff in an article somewhere.

I post almost nothing simply because I have little interest in the feedback of a bunch of critics who live at home with mommy and daddy and make their Geo payments with money made from working at the local burger stand. Obviously, this is a generalization but the idea, I am sure, is realized.

To prove my point; some of the critiques of the CG in movies around here is just irritating, clueless and plain disconnected from the harsh reality of making money, which is what I am about.

Frankly, when I do have time for personal projects I am painting a mural, running a couple of side businesses, socializing, traveling, or just plain having some fun somewhere in blu-ray or similar.

Most galleries, anymore, are a collection of faces (dear GOD! ZB3 would someone STOP the face madness), statues, boring evil beasts, bottles, mountains, houses, naked people, an omnium gatherum of spheres in square rooms (sans the useful GI testing imagery)...blah, blah, blah... I've seen it all before so why add to the misery?

Steamthrower
03-19-2008, 09:37 AM
I post almost nothing simply because I have little interest in the feedback of a bunch of critics who live at home with mommy and daddy and make their Geo payments with money made from working at the local burger stand. Obviously, this is a generalization but the idea, I am sure, is realized.

I love that. Internet + peers = unknown. Most of my work I don't post for the same reason. Critique might be handed to me by a 7 year old kid, a 92 year old grandmother, or a guy at Zoic. Never know. So who cares?

Besides all the work I do for pay is usually under NDA. So that's a major reason as well (Titus noted this).

colkai
03-19-2008, 09:38 AM
Ahem, yes, quite.
Thing is, you're not wrong, there are only so many faces / beasties one can view before going screen-blind.

Maybe that's the answer, LW users are too savvy to waste time posting images they figure folks are tired of seeing? :D

jasond
03-19-2008, 09:45 AM
Get a couple of kids, a mortgage and a busy lifestyle and software is no different than the Bosch jigsaw out in the garage, hence my personal view of galleries as nothing more than a mere fleeting amusement.

I don't view galleries at all, anywhere, typically, unless the work has been produced for 'real' money under 'real' time and budget constraints. Unfortunately, most of images produced under the previous specs are under NDA or the producers have little time or energy to post. The few that do slip through the cracks are, obviously, interesting to me but due to the energy required to find them I won't look unless NT or others posts a link to pro-level stuff in an article somewhere.

I post almost nothing simply because I have little interest in the feedback of a bunch of critics who live at home with mommy and daddy and make their Geo payments with money made from working at the local burger stand. Obviously, this is a generalization but the idea, I am sure, is realized.

To prove my point; some of the critiques of the CG in movies around here is just irritating, clueless and plain disconnected from the harsh reality of making money, which is what I am about.

Frankly, when I do have time for personal projects I am painting a mural, running a couple of side businesses, socializing, traveling, or just plain having some fun somewhere in blu-ray or similar.

Most galleries, anymore, are a collection of faces (dear GOD! ZB3 would someone STOP the face madness), statues, boring evil beasts, bottles, mountains, houses, naked people, an omnium gatherum of spheres in square rooms (sans the useful GI testing imagery)...blah, blah, blah... I've seen it all before so why add to the misery?

bing bang boom. Wow, and I felt alone here in my studio, sneaking glances at the forums instead of focusing on the daily work like I should...

Lightwolf
03-19-2008, 10:06 AM
Wow, and I felt alone here in my studio, sneaking glances at the forums instead of focusing on the daily work like I should...
You're not ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Intuition
03-19-2008, 10:19 AM
The answer is really quite simple.

Its easier to model, texture, setup lighting and the render engine is faster and the light is in a non-clamped value space so it makes really nice renders much easier.

Look, I love me some lightwave but modo makes making a nice image ridiculously simple and fast.

Everyone here is talking about having no time to do it. Well, modo doesn't take as much time. Thats why it has more images every day. I love lightwave. I really do. I use it alot. I defend it to levels of ridiculousness not seen before but I also use everything else.

modo, if you let yourself learn it properly and not be afraid that it doesn't act like lightwave at first is really great for a quick nice image.

Are you going to see tons of voxel effects in modo? no

Have you seen alot of character animation in modo? no, its possible but you don't see it much.

I could go on. But for a general great looking 3d still it is really great and hence why the gallery is filled everyday.

A quick doodle, built, textured and rendered all in about 15 minutes.

Iain
03-19-2008, 10:31 AM
I've just about stopped posting on the Newtek galleries because you just don't get much feedback. And I don't just mean people saying "wow, dude-wires plz", I mean anything.

I've seen interesting things get posted and get one reply while on other forums they will get a wide range of constructive comments.

It's difficult to guess why the negativity/apathy/cynicism thing is so bad here sometimes but a few people do seem to come on in the knowledge that there is little moderation so they can let off steam or pick a fight over nothing.
Cue 20 page off topic thread.

Steamthrower
03-19-2008, 10:37 AM
SpinQuad is still the king of WIP threads. I'm really loving it over there. I don't know why, perhaps just like Iain said, maybe it's because there's more moderation there.

OOZZEE
03-19-2008, 10:49 AM
Most galleries, anymore, are a collection of faces (dear GOD! ZB3 would someone STOP the face madness), statues, boring evil beasts, bottles, mountains, houses, naked people, an omnium gatherum of spheres in square rooms (sans the useful GI testing imagery)...blah, blah, blah... I've seen it all before so why add to the misery?

Theo man !!! I think you need a kitkat break !! ( no offense )

My reasonning is that the web environment here doesnt help NT as its just not unified enough. I have to go to a separate website to view the gallery for LW and in the forums, its one image at a time and not even categorized.

Lux has the mentally to make things REALLY easy . NT need to keep up to date faster with modern changes... I believe NT may have been in a mode of 'whatever' for the longest time and are now slowly changing that.

at Lux,I had Mr. Allen Hastings answer a trivial question of mine in minutes...so that means they are constantly watching the users to understand and improve for us and the users notice this....When have you seen a response from NT on these forums for anything unless the thread gets hot.

They just have a different mentally to address things and Lux is not in the same train of thought as NT is, at the current moment.

I thing that NT would kick some serious booty if they just realized that smart simple changes does make a difference as the word spreads around. Even creating a better environment for the forums to show off LW work would help in every way.

theo
03-19-2008, 10:53 AM
SpinQuad is still the king of WIP threads. I'm really loving it over there. I don't know why, perhaps just like Iain said, maybe it's because there's more moderation there.

You're right about this. SpinQuad is a nice place. Pleasant ambiance. I don't visit often due to recent time constraints but I have always experienced a warm feeling there.

theo
03-19-2008, 10:56 AM
Theo man !!! I think you need a kitkat break !! ( no offense )

Could be, OOZZEE... I don't claim special knowledge in anything other than preparing my own coffee, so my view is certainly open to intelligent askance as you have demonstrated.

4dartist
03-19-2008, 11:47 AM
Look, I love me some lightwave but modo makes making a nice image ridiculously simple and fast.

Everyone here is talking about having no time to do it. Well, modo doesn't take as much time. Thats why it has more images every day. I love lightwave. I really do. I use it alot. I defend it to levels of ridiculousness not seen before but I also use everything else.

modo, if you let yourself learn it properly and not be afraid that it doesn't act like lightwave at first is really great for a quick nice image.

Maybe it's not a question of time. I tell you after an 11 hour day at work, when I get home I'd rather pee on my computer than turn it on..

Andyjaggy
03-19-2008, 11:57 AM
Yeah I'm glad we have spinquad, I get much more crits and a pleasent atmo there then posting gallery stuff here.

lardbros
03-19-2008, 12:07 PM
I think a lot of the problem is due to the Lightwave website.

Yes, it looks okay, and has lots of info there... but the deeper you delve, the more you realise how old the info is, and how long ago it was actually updated.

The gallery for instance... why have a separate one for 9.2? It's all lightwave, so why not kill the old crap, keep some of the good stuff, and start a-fresh!?

If i was looking at buying a piece of software i'd look at their website... if it hasn't been updated for ages i'd think it was going down the pan! Newtek DESPERATELY need to get this in gear. Instead of making quick fixes to the site, out with the old and in with the new.

I remember a few years back i used to check the Newtek galleries and there was something new almost every day. Now there is nothing new since v9.0 was released. This is very sad for me as a lightwave user and fan, but if i was a prospective customer looking back every few weeks, i'd simply not buy into it!!!

Bottom line is Newtek need to get their PR sorted out... but then we've all been saying this for 5 years or so, what a shame nothing has happened yet!

Andyjaggy
03-19-2008, 12:10 PM
Well I honeslty don't think I have seen any new images added to the gallery in probably 2 years.

lardbros
03-19-2008, 12:20 PM
Well, there were these, but they were all added on the same day and about 8 months ago! or is it american dates where it'll be nearly a year ago??

If im honest... that is shocking!!

Why can't they dedicate an hour on a friday at work, just to select a few images from SpinQuad or here, and whack them into the gallery??? It is not even an hours work for ch**st's sake!!!

lardbros
03-19-2008, 12:23 PM
Also, why not advertise that there is a gallery!?? People want to see the stuff that's being developed by people o their own just as much as the big studios!!

It would be nice to even see a small thumbnail on the front page that shows images in a slideshow type thing! Although i guess when people see the date they were done and added to the gallery they might be disappointed!


.... and no offence to the original artist (sorry whoever it was) but how did this get into the gallery?? http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=312 I've sent work to them before and it never got in! It was pretty annoying for me to think that mine wasn't up to this standard!

DanD
03-19-2008, 01:49 PM
I was happy/lucky to have my image on the main page under the Televison section for quite a while. It's been more than 2 years. Can't they grab an intern or something and make updating the gallery page (and whatever else) his/her only job. Just a thought.

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=257

Also, I own Messiah and ocasionaly visit the PMG site and it's kinda depressing. That gallery gets less attention than newteks'. It makes me think that not many people use Messiah.

4dartist
03-19-2008, 01:56 PM
Odd, i never even knew that gallery existed... lol. Pretty neat.

Our company offered to newtek our most recent animations/stills to post or just get people excited, but either it's not good enough or they just haven't assigned anyone to making a current face to the company/website. We just thought they would gobble up 100% lightwave animations and put up for people to see that work is being done with LW. Instead it seems like a ton of work is being done, but nobody really knows about it, because the studios do the work and go on to other things and the work just fades off. Seems like NT could catch tail ends of projects and post them (if no NDA or when NDA expires) to help show new/current people how widely the program is being used.

Guess they are too busy with 10!! MWhahahaha... :ohmy:

Matt
03-19-2008, 01:59 PM
I'm just too busy to do personal projects at the moment, and most of my work stuff is boring as hell!

Steamthrower
03-19-2008, 02:01 PM
I have a cool rendering of a water heater if anyone wants a glamour shot.

tyrot
03-19-2008, 02:19 PM
dear matt

same here...

Theo, i totally agree with you....

inigo you rock :) Please...post here .) and before posting you know the rule

- X for modelling
- Zbrush for detailing
- Photoshop for final touch

Result?

i dont know...

Since launch of Zbrush i think whole modelling stuff just ...you know .....

Best

guardonduty
03-19-2008, 03:23 PM
Those other guys seem to have an attractive, exciting website layout. You go there and immediately you say WOW. They pull you in. Fresh content. Regular updates. I challenge the board to post pictures of how our HOMEPAGE could look. Maybe Newtek will consider.

zapper1998
03-19-2008, 03:37 PM
We [ All Members ], Here at the NT Forums, have over 3 times the posts, so i would say the Newtek Forums are MORE active than the modO forums.......

:lightwave
:2guns:

Does Modo forum have any Modo Music ..... NO
WE DO at Newtek Forums


:lightwave
:2guns:

Steamthrower
03-19-2008, 03:38 PM
... I have also many stuff done in lightwave that I can show, but I think nobody like it, bcause it is for children

But your surfacing node for your cat avatar is definitely worthy of display. :D

zapper1998
03-19-2008, 03:44 PM
I tried MODO, after the 30 day trial, it went to the waste basket....did not like it....

I do allot of things in LW should post more pics I guess..
Mostly Industrial Type of work, working on PlayGround Equipment for a Company, For Children also....

IMI
03-19-2008, 03:46 PM
lack of... of. energy.
Energy? Who lack energy?
Why, I've found that if you... *yawn*... ahh, skip it, maybe later.

Andyjaggy
03-19-2008, 03:58 PM
Thats one ugly cat. Nothing personal. :)

pumeco
03-19-2008, 04:00 PM
Not really sure what this thread is about anymore, but I've got something I feel is very valid to say about the galleries and the amount of viewings/comments. I'll split this into two, because I think there are two evils at play here.

For the first part :

If you want to sum-up why more pictures are coming from certain app's than others, that's easy; it's because the app's with the most work to their name are the most productive. A perfect example from my perspective would be to compare Bryce to LightWave. Totally different beasts, but that's got nothing to do with it. There are more Bryce images around because people can pick it up and knock-out a render a lot easier than they can in LightWave. It's the same with Poser. I know it's popularity is helped by the fact that dude's get excited posing their Vickies, but it's mainly because, like Bryce, you can get a decent render almost as soon as you boot it up.


For the second part :

Forum design has a lot to answer for, as does the person who's in charge of categorizing it all. Unfortunately, some just don't know when to stop, and it's this insane fetish for seperating forum topics that is actually killing the flow of things. Who remembers the OLD Renderosity eh? Each application had only one forum, that's ONE forum. This was a winning formula, and is the only reason Renderosity became and maintained it's popularity. You could ask a question in the Bryce forum, post a pic in the Bryce forum, and even tell folk about your new toys in the Bryce forum.

The beauty of it all was this; no matter what you posted on the forum, EVERY Bryce user saw it because it wasn't seperated by categories. There was no chance of missing a render someone had posted because it was THERE, right in front of you, right next to all the other posts you'd just read.

I'm about 75% through the development of a pumeco forum system, and I assure you that it will be NOTHING LIKE a phpBB or VBuletin system. It will work more like the old Renderosity did, as that folks, is the way to promote a healthy and vibrant community for any product.

Just imagine how many viewings your LightWave renders would get if they were sitting next to THIS thread right now in THIS main forum. I assure you it would be considerably more than the off chance someone will take the time to find the galleries. LightWave really only needs ONE massive forum category, as does SpeedEDIT etc.

In short, making LightWave more accessible will breed more renders, and streamlining the forum will breed more viewings and more questions getting answered than ever before.

Think about it.

kfinla
03-19-2008, 04:15 PM
I think its an age thing. I don't think a lot of students/young ppl use Lightwave. The vast majority of schools teach, Maya, max..xsi.. my guess is most LW's are 30+ have families and work under NDA. I'm still in my 20's and make a living doing 3d. I still do a lot of personal artwork but know that will probably peter off in a few years. I can't say I have posted much in the LW galleries in awhile though. I rarely do something exclusively with LW. For me personally creature work is far and few between on here which would be of interest to me.

tyrot
03-19-2008, 04:25 PM
I think its an age thing. I don't think a lot of students/young ppl use Lightwave. The vast majority of schools teach, Maya, max..xsi.. my guess is most LW's are 30+ have families and work under NDA.

dear KF

very good point

best

RedBull
03-19-2008, 05:02 PM
dear KF

very good point

best

I'm not sure i agree however, with the amount of "9.5 is out", and dozens of other posts lately, I have wondered if LW only has 3 year olds left in the community, and weather adults haven't moved to Houdini or something.

Because it can be long time, before seeing legit posts in a see of bad jokes, stupid puns and fighting about cats or the hoff, or insert rant here.... ;)

zapper1998
03-19-2008, 05:20 PM
... She is a Manic-RealLive Cat, nothing CG and there is no Node-Editor in her, only a Claws-Editor ;-)

Your cat is cute, Can u load up a bigger Pic of the Cat, and those Claw editors of hers... Please....

With sugar on top, and all the sweet stuff, like Butterscotch ice cream ...


Michael

Steamthrower
03-19-2008, 05:40 PM
I think its an age thing. I don't think a lot of students/young ppl use Lightwave. The vast majority of schools teach, Maya, max..xsi.. my guess is most LW's are 30+ have families and work under NDA. I'm still in my 20's and make a living doing 3d.

You might happily be wrong there.

I am young, in process of getting a degree in Fine Arts...yet have already modeled/animated for several corporations, multiple small businesses, large game models for game development studios, I've worked both on NDA and outside of NDA.

I'm still green and young but I know a lot of other 'wavers who are either my age or younger. They've told me they don't want to divulge their age because...well, I'm sure you all understand. What??? You're 20 and you think you can MODEL? HA!!!

pumeco
03-19-2008, 05:56 PM
I'm not sure i agree however, with the amount of "9.5 is out", and dozens of other posts lately, I have wondered if LW only has 3 year olds left in the community, and weather adults haven't moved to Houdini or something.

Because it can be long time, before seeing legit posts in a see of bad jokes, stupid puns and fighting about cats or the hoff, or insert rant here.... ;)

As one of the newer forum idiots, I'd just like to point out that it wasn't me who started the 'Hoff thing. Just wanted to point that out. I actually agree it's getting a bit annoying but like a lot of people here, I go into 'jester' mode whenever I feel there's a laugh or two to be had out of it.

Hurry up NewTek.

Anyway, no more 'Hoff jokes from me - I promise.
Right, now that's me in the clear - I'm 'Hoff to render something useful.

*Pete*
03-19-2008, 06:52 PM
Altough i do agree with Matts reasoning and admitt that most of my work is too boring or bad to post, but the real reason so little is posted in times just before a beta release...is to free up all possible bandwidth for the beta downloads once 9.5 is released.

...seriously though, all i do with LW recently (the last few months atleast) is either paid projects or test renders trying to perfect or learn specific areas of intrest.
some projects are for architectural competitions and i shouldnt post the images anywhere untill the competition is settled, by which time i already see far too many flaws in the images to have the guts to post anything.
and my test renders are, of course..silly boring for everyone except for me, who can stare at renders at close range and try to figure out which version is closer to my set goal (quality, realism etc etc).

in other words..no, i have nothing to post, no..so i excuse myself with the good and honourable excuse of saving bandwidth for 9.5 beta.

RedBull
03-19-2008, 07:40 PM
As one of the newer forum idiots, I'd just like to point out that it wasn't me who started the 'Hoff thing. Just wanted to point that out. I actually agree it's getting a bit annoying but like a lot of people here, I go into 'jester' mode whenever I feel there's a laugh or two to be had out of it.

Hurry up NewTek.

Anyway, no more 'Hoff jokes from me - I promise.
Right, now that's me in the clear - I'm 'Hoff to render something useful.

Heheh, no offense meant Pumeco...... It wasn't really a direct reference to yourself, or anyone in particular. It's all in good fun, and i don't really have a problem with any of it. :) But like the OP it appears lately their is far more non-newtek and LW buzz, and just about anything useful.......The 9.5 teasers started good, didn't end that way though.

But hey i think all forums are a bit that way anyway at the best of times. I think it's just the restlessness of the LW beta crowd, or me getting old. Perhaps we should be be getting more mini LW tests, and challenges on these forums.... Or something!

PS... I did wake up to an old episode of Knight Rider on the telly the other night, where David was singing in black leather and i still have chills down my spine... :) (shudders) I don't remember that episode, but perhaps i just mentally blocked it out.

Matt
03-19-2008, 07:56 PM
Altough i do agree with Matts reasoning and admitt that most of my work is too boring or bad to post

I could post the train interior toilet rendering I'm doing for our current project, but quite frankly, it's just crap!

:D

pumeco
03-19-2008, 07:58 PM
No prob's RedBull - I know it wasn't only at me.
So, does that mean I can still do 'Hoff jokes and stuff, please? :D

BTW, it's alright for you 'mericans getting to see this new Knight Rider series, it'll be bloody ages until we get to see it in the UK.

scratch33
03-20-2008, 03:49 AM
The answer is really quite simple.

Its easier to model, texture, setup lighting and the render engine is faster and the light is in a non-clamped value space so it makes really nice renders much easier.

Look, I love me some lightwave but modo makes making a nice image ridiculously simple and fast.

Everyone here is talking about having no time to do it. Well, modo doesn't take as much time. Thats why it has more images every day. I love lightwave. I really do. I use it alot. I defend it to levels of ridiculousness not seen before but I also use everything else.

modo, if you let yourself learn it properly and not be afraid that it doesn't act like lightwave at first is really great for a quick nice image.

Are you going to see tons of voxel effects in modo? no

Have you seen alot of character animation in modo? no, its possible but you don't see it much.

I could go on. But for a general great looking 3d still it is really great and hence why the gallery is filled everyday.

A quick doodle, built, textured and rendered all in about 15 minutes.

Totaly agree with intuition. texturing, and rendering is so fast in modo (if you don't touch to much to the camera and lights position:D ). You can make the same render in lightwave, but it take so much longer to setup...For now, modo is awesome to make renders of object. Don't like it to setup an entier more complex scene. But the result of renders and the materials are simply fantastic. (try to make sss in lightwave with the same results and facilty of modo...)

Steamthrower
03-20-2008, 06:41 AM
Yeah, since we have to pay $25 for a demo version anyway...someone please tell us. :D

Jim_C
03-20-2008, 07:25 AM
BTW, it's alright for you 'mericans getting to see this new Knight Rider series, it'll be bloody ages until we get to see it in the UK.

OT:

I can watch a LOT of bad TV. all day long......
and I made it about 30 mins into the new 2 hour Knight Rider....

Horrible Acting, Horrible Editing, Horrible stunt work (wasn't any really) Horrible EVERYTHING... oh.. and basically it was a big Ford commercial because EVERY shot of EVERY vehicle had to have the Ford logo in it at sometime.
(KITT was being chased by Ford Edge's...? C"MON???)
and the HORRIBLE's I used take into account the original series which has suddenly been thrust into HBO exclusive level.
It honestly was so bad it was disgusting. :thumbsdow

/OT

scratch33
03-20-2008, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scratch33
(if you don't touch to much to the camera and lights position ...)


I dont know Modo much, but can you give me more Informations about what you mean?
__________________

The movement and positioning of the camera is horrible comparing to lightwave. same for the light.

kfinla
03-20-2008, 01:31 PM
Yep, but ppl have complained and a new LWish type of naviagtion for the camera will appear in 302.. there are vids about it if i recall. Moving around lights can actually be superior at times when i want to do a local transform/rot instead of be in world space.

Mitja
03-20-2008, 01:36 PM
Lack of energy from Lightwavers...
It's amatter of fact that since the appearance of v9.5's rumours, all the forum/s became deadly boring: when, how, what...
Seems like many don't have a girl, or even a wife, to free some excitement / hormones ... you know what I mean ;) ! ps: don't offend!

Darth Mole
03-21-2008, 05:39 AM
FFS... pumeco? It's 'hassle'. H a s s l e. (And you don't need a capital 'h')

Can we at least have some semblance of grammar here? Especially when it's bright red and huge.

pumeco
03-21-2008, 06:52 AM
FFS... pumeco? It's 'hassle'. H a s s l e. (And you don't need a capital 'h')

Can we at least have some semblance of grammar here? Especially when it's bright red and huge.
Well, I did twag school an awful lot when I were a nipper.

I did wonder whether I should use a capital 'H', but considering he's often refered to as 'The Hoff' I thought it justified - even though it's abbreviated. As for the spelling 'Hassel', that is correct! It's the first part of the name that's being used to substitute the meaning 'hassle'.

Check out http://www.hasselhoff.com and you'll see what I mean about the use of hassel.

As for the signature being big'n'bold (and red), it's because I'm trying to get to be a mod here on the NewTek forums. You might have noticed that I've been paticularily nice to Ben, Chuck, and William lately because I'm trying to suck-up to them (but don't tell 'em). I figured that the authoritive Don't Hassel the 'Hoff! would be a good signature for a mod.

Well I reckon it would kick your 'wavin asses in shape anyway, peasants :D

Steamthrower
03-21-2008, 07:12 AM
Darth, when you've got an avatar that suave, nobody cares how you spell, how you color your text, or even how you smell. You're just the Hoff. That's it.

IMI
03-21-2008, 07:19 AM
Yeah, since we have to pay $25 for a demo version anyway...someone please tell us. :D

I made a Quick Video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a5RRqDwgNGA) showing the how easy it is to adjust the camera and lights in modo 301, and then doing some quick SSS on it.
Plus it also shows the really cool *built-in* FPrime-esque preview renderer in action fairly well.
It came out kind of dark though, and I'm not sure why, but you can easily enough see what's going on.

Mike_RB
03-23-2008, 11:42 PM
I made a Quick Video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=a5RRqDwgNGA) showing the how easy it is to adjust the camera and lights in modo 301, and then doing some quick SSS on it.
Plus it also shows the really cool *built-in* FPrime-esque preview renderer in action fairly well.
It came out kind of dark though, and I'm not sure why, but you can easily enough see what's going on.

Nice demo, although what you created was pretty ugly. :)

webhead
03-24-2008, 08:52 PM
I like collecting artwork from CG Talk, Spinquad, ZBrushCentral, and other forums to study for technique, as well as, get inspiration from. I even organize the images according to which software was used to create them.
It seems that CG Talk has noticeably more images created with 3DS Max than any other software, though ZBrush is also used with many programs, as well. Lightwave images seem much harder to find at CG Talk.
I've also noticed, when I do find a Lightwave image, it's usually of a more traditional object like, an automobile, plane, or an architectural rendering; something you would see in everyday life, while, there seems to be more unique images of things we haven't seen before in images created with other software packages. Not sure why it appears that's the case. That's my observance anyway, someone may have a different slant on it. Anyone have an opinion on this? :lwicon:

pooby
03-25-2008, 05:33 AM
It didn't used to be like that 10 yrs ago, but then LWs renderer stood head and shoulders above the other out of the box packages, so it attracted a lot of users who wanted to make great imagery.
Now the situation is quite different. LW IS still very nice at rendering, but it no longer stands apart in the way it did.
Max is seen as the leader by many newcomers, as It's big for games and it's expensive. If you were a newcomer to the industry and wanted a crack copy to try out (and lets face it, it's a fact that Lots of people would prefer to train on a crack than a demo. ) you might think that the most expensive and widely used software may be a better place to start than a crack of an inexpensive app with a questionable reputation in many areas.

Popularity attracts popularity.

Maybe the sort of people who are attracted to honestly buying and using a non industry standard piece of affordable software aren't so viciously aggressive in their pursuit of work in the industry?

(the views above are not necessary the views of the author of the post)

djlithium
03-25-2008, 06:17 AM
Each night after browsing the Newtek forums I take a quick look at the Modo gallery page. Just about every night there are few new gallery shots posted and sometimes as many as 5 or 6. Is their community that much more active than ours? I go to their gallery once a night while I can't even remember when the last month I visited Lightwave's official gallery (not the forums)
I have to admit that the Luxology boys kick the Cr*p out of the Newtek boys when it comes to promoting their product.
Having dabbled with Modo lately and seeing they have a long way to go to reach the features of Lightwave why do they seem to generate such a buzz about their product and when I check the lightwave forum all I see is the same old stuff in some forum categories, i.e. Architectural which is our line of business sometimes goes days without new posts. Is it because all Lightwavers are too busy making money from projects to post their stuff or are they all obsessing about when 9.5 is coming out.
Is our attitude creating so much negative energy that it seems we are going nowhere fast.
Now I know Chuck said we were going to get 9.5 in early March and Paul said get ready in a few days (been more than a week of business days). But why don't we just focus on the positive like the release of Hd instance 2.0 (a little pricey but it kicks butt)

It's time to post some renders to show those Modo W**nies we are still alive and kicking.
Apologies to the Modo W**nies in our office. Didn't mean to offend.


I will be posting something when I get to work tommorrow :thumbsup: :newtek: :thumbsup:

Hey Rob,
Here is something EVERYONE who uses LW should check out. Tim Albee has been hard at work since the Fall on several new LW LSC toys and he just posted the new morph split tool, which is amazing!
You can check out a video here at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdodzW7qgiM
you can download it free from http://loupguru.com/store/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&cPath=1_11&products_id=31

Now that's just one tool. But its a great start on a set of tools that LW needs to start pulling back some people who ditched for the Modo/Max option a while ago. Indeed, tim has another tool that was produced before Modo's new symetry functions came out. Now the reason why I am mentioning all of this, is that we have been trying for a few months now to get NT to include these tools in the release version of LW 9.5. However we have been running into some resistance for whatever reasons.
What we all need are these kind of new tools and some encouragement and support from NT to keep pumping them out and show how they can be used while also making sure new users know about them.

So while your statement is true that a lot of new people to 3D look at max and go "thats the top" they really don't have the full picture of what Lightwave for example can do and that is a problem. We are trying to fix that by working with NT and others, but we all need to get together and find a way to get these tools out there at 9.5 release so people immediately can find them because they know about them right away. My hopes are they NT brings these tools into the program directly as they should be included in the base package. There is no reason why they shouldn't be there. Everyone needs them (including me, and I don't really model that much but these tools help out immensely) and even more people have been looking for them but didn't find them because they either didn't exist or they didn't know about them.

So, with that said, try this out and look at Tim's other tools and videos which will be released today as well.
Lots of neat stuff out there, but really NT is where new people look to for those tools or at least some kind of indication that they exist. So how about it NT? Can we get these in there or what? Or onto the 3rd party portion?

Jay? Chuck? Anyone?

Stjepanovic
03-25-2008, 01:15 PM
I would agree with Intuition but there are still amazing work on the Spinquad all the time. Why people do not usuall ypost on the NT Forum I do not know. But I always check galeries at SPinquad. In addition I heard at Modo some of the images are created by the staff members. Plus there are a lot of images floating around web, TV that have not been properly credited to LW. I hev no inside scoop on XSI or Maya galleries but I know why we see a lot of 3DStudioMax staff. Well what tutorials are usually the best and most common - 3DStudioMax. 3DMax community is simply huge enormous compared to others and mostly pirated copies produce of 3DStudioMax produce amazing work

prospector
03-25-2008, 02:12 PM
Maby it's because the threads turn into software wars ?

If a pic is posted and someone asks how it was done, there will be someone who chimes in and complains that another program will do it in 1 less mouse click, and then there will be pages upon pages of this is better or that's better, or LW needs to be like this or that program or the inveriable LW will die if this or that isn't included.

I wouldn't care if they were rendered to the highest extreme or just showing a process (maby 2 areas of the board?), I would be happy to post or visit or critique if it stayed on topic.
And I don't mind the usual crack about pics, because some just scream out for it. :D

I could care 1 iota less about other programs, if I wanted to use them I would buy them....I don't, so I don't.

DAMAKERS
03-25-2008, 07:06 PM
with two or more moderators on line and some contest in diferent categories (junior, senior, pro, animation, modeling, texturin, lighting, FX) will be healthy for the community, cuz everybody gets the best of the package, community learns more, shares more, users gets closer and friendly, and for the develope team is a way to see if the tools are, or not, filling the needs, and every one will be happy, ihmo.

:boogiedow

archijam
03-26-2008, 02:24 AM
Some forums, such as SpinQuad, are just very nice places to post. Comments are generous/positive/constructive, the 'frontpage' works well as an incentive, and platform/software comparisons are at a minimum (more common are Fprime/Kray/Maxwell comparisons).

The LW forum is a much more harsh and dry place to post work. People's expectiations are higher, perhaps overly so, which does not raise the quality of the work but rather lowers the impetus to put it up in the first place. That's just the way it is.

} -- : -- {

I think a better system (than waiting for people to post) could be to link from the gallery to other forums or sites, bringing the work 'to us'. The LW forum gallery is almost always unrepresentative of the current capacities of LW.

There is no shortage of fantastic work, why wait :) ?

jburford
03-26-2008, 06:28 AM
I think a lot of the problem is due to the Lightwave website.

Yes, it looks okay, and has lots of info there... but the deeper you delve, the more you realise how old the info is, and how long ago it was actually updated.

The gallery for instance... why have a separate one for 9.2? It's all lightwave, so why not kill the old crap, keep some of the good stuff, and start a-fresh!?

If i was looking at buying a piece of software i'd look at their website... if it hasn't been updated for ages i'd think it was going down the pan! Newtek DESPERATELY need to get this in gear. Instead of making quick fixes to the site, out with the old and in with the new.

I remember a few years back i used to check the Newtek galleries and there was something new almost every day. Now there is nothing new since v9.0 was released. This is very sad for me as a lightwave user and fan, but if i was a prospective customer looking back every few weeks, i'd simply not buy into it!!!

Bottom line is Newtek need to get their PR sorted out... but then we've all been saying this for 5 years or so, what a shame nothing has happened yet!

I agree with you that there should be one Gallery and not a seperate for v9.x and such. However, I totally disagree with you on their PR and needing to sort it out. They have been doing major improvement here and are showing it. Simply check out the following

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/index.php

and keep updating it or refreshing it, you will see one major studio after the other using Lightwave for impressive productions such as 300, Sin City, Lost and so on.

Then go on to

http://www.newtek.com/shows/siggraph/2007/index.php

and view and listen to all of the PR Pops by those professionals using Lightwave and why they use and love it as well as it's workflow!

View them, word is out and getting out. Newtek has been making major pushes in it's PR and it will help (as long as the 9.x Cycle is able to provide major updates and fixes to stability and other issues) in the long run.

Cheers

lardbros
03-27-2008, 12:11 PM
However, I totally disagree with you on their PR and needing to sort it out. They have been doing major improvement here and are showing it. Simply check out the following

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/index.php

and keep updating it or refreshing it, you will see one major studio after the other using Lightwave for impressive productions such as 300, Sin City, Lost and so on.

Then go on to

http://www.newtek.com/shows/siggraph/2007/index.php

and view and listen to all of the PR Pops by those professionals using Lightwave and why they use and love it as well as it's workflow!

View them, word is out and getting out. Newtek has been making major pushes in it's PR and it will help (as long as the 9.x Cycle is able to provide major updates and fixes to stability and other issues) in the long run.

Cheers

This is kinda my point though, these haven't been updated for a while. 300 was out on dvd a while ago, and yes it's a good name to have on a front page, it would be cool to see this updated. Thing is im not certain how much it is used in films these days anyway, the list of productions using LW on the newtek website is pretty thin on the ground for recent years!

Lamont
03-28-2008, 01:23 AM
I find myself using Maya more and more, and now that I finally got someone to get me a lic, I use it at home now too. Before, I'd start my models in LW, but now I just do it in Maya from the start. If there's a tool that LW has and Maya doesn't, I script it, or ask someone else to make it for me.

Not lazy, just that LW isn't huge in my workflow anymore at work and most studios want Maya anyways. Although I do use LW at home for it's saving grace: speed. I've always been able to kick out whatever I want with no effort. Maya, I just model/texture stuff and pass it on to someone else :D.

Although if this Collada thing works out, I'll be 100% with LW and UnrealED.