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squidsquidsquid
07-17-2003, 09:01 AM
LightWave has randomly crashed ever since it's installation over 2 years ago. I've done the segment memory limit thing (1mb), and sometimes that works and other times it doesn't (my most recent spell of stable layout usage came by setting the segment memory limit to 1000mb). I've rewritten preferences, usually to no effect. I've reinstalled several times over the years.

The newest set of crashes seem to pertain to particular objects. All older objets render fine, but this newly built set crashes layout a second after hitting "render frame". No subpatches, no procedural textures, just polygons (a few thousand) and texture maps (5.2mb).

How should I go about tracking down the problem? Do these things usually trace back to texture problems? All of my textures are tga files.

I'm using a G4 dual 800MHz, OS 10.2.6, 1.5GB RAM, LightWave 7.5c.

Thanks for any and all advice.

Beamtracer
07-17-2003, 04:45 PM
It's interesting that your crashes are occuring with certain models and not other ones.

Maybe you could try copying the errant model and run some tests with it.
My first guess would be a buggy plug-in. Are there any surface plug-ins or deformation plug-ins added to this model? If so, remove them and see if it renders OK.

If not, try removing all textures and see if it renders OK.

If the plain mesh still causes crashes, maybe there is some corruption in the file, though I have never experienced that with Lightwave.

You've got to narrow it down and try to find out exactly what it is about this particular model that is causing crashes.

Just a general tip: After you install any software (even Apple software), run the Disk Utility program and select "Repair Permissions". Most software installers seem to screw up permissions.

In the past I've also seen hardware faults cause crashes. Bad RAM, or bad processor. You may be able to surf the web OK, or play a Quicktime video OK, but when it comes to using software that has intensive rendering (like Lightwave or a compositing app) then the problem shows. It doesn't sound like this is the issue in your case.

squidsquidsquid
07-21-2003, 08:50 AM
Thanks for the tips, Beamtracer.

I've tested my model and it is indeed some textures that are crashing LightWave. I've never experienced this problem before, so I'm not sure how to proceed. It's a model of a fairly complex chair, and instead of modelling the detailed bits, I've used UV texture maps. There are several layers of bump, texture, specular, diffuse and reflection maps. Can multiple layers of uv maps cause problems?

The chair renders fine without any maps attached, so it's definitely the maps (and I'm guessing it's the multiple layers of uv maps, since other uv maps on other models in the scene render fine).

I'm fairly new to uv maps, so maybe there are steps or limitations I don't understand yet. I'd appreciate any advice.

toby
07-22-2003, 02:17 AM
It's probably the image file type that's causing problems. I've had the least trouble with .psd, .tga is considered 'native' to LW, but I've had problems with them too - the 'jpeg.p' input/output plugin has known issues, solution being to remove it, then Quicktime.p handles the jpg's.

Sometimes it's a matter of re-loading the i/o plugins, sometimes you just find what file type works.

lasco
07-22-2003, 05:35 AM
squid,
if this can help I also have crashes, at least with heavy scenes
(800 000 polys or more), fortunately not too often.

I exactly have the same crash of the Layout when I hit "render frame".


There's a simply way to avoid this (at least that works everytime on my machine) : save ALL objects IN THE LAYOUT just before rendering.
It takes quite long time depending on the number of objects but
it works, I had just last week a scene that crashed 6 or 7 times,
I has restarted the computer, nothing changed : I did this and had no
more troubles…

PS : the manuel advices you not to use too much this saving all objects in the Layout but rather to save them one by one.
The manual is wrong, at least for mac users : if you try to save objects independently this stupid Layout will ask you to give them a new name,
while if you save them all it will only take you few seconds or minutes but
will be a guarantee of stability.


(Running dual-867 G4, OS X 10.2, 1,7 Gb RAM, LW 7.5)


PS 2 : If you did'nt do it already, forget every relations between LW and Quicktime : don't use QT files for maps and don't export QT movies.
LW & QT don't like each other !

Beamtracer
07-22-2003, 05:55 AM
Thanks for the tip, Lasco. I must admit that I have had an errant scene in the past that often crashed when I hit the render button. I'll try your save technique.

I've never seen the section in the Lightwave manual that says you shouldn't use the "save all objects" funtion very much.

lasco
07-22-2003, 05:59 AM
chapt 7.4

well my translation was not really exact I must admit :
it's said to use it carrefully and insure it's really what you need
to do…

But the fact is that in the Layout it's ALWAYS what I need to do
as the saving independently does'nt work…

lasco
07-22-2003, 06:01 AM
Beam > your (new ?) avatar
reminds me how long I'm always waiting
for everything on that damn OS X !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanx:D

Orange
07-23-2003, 07:24 AM
Hi Beam,

Love your help/tips/experience, but 'hate' your avatar : ))

Cheers,
Orange

squidsquidsquid
07-29-2003, 08:22 AM
Just an update...I can get LightWave to render as long as I bring my model into layout without textures, and then add them in layout, saving the model from layout. If I texture the model in modeler, it crashes layout during rendering. Anyone ever had this problem before?

Thanks for all of the advice.

lasco
07-29-2003, 11:19 AM
squid,

I'm almost sure that you did but to be very precise :
you say you load your textures in de Modeler,
save the objects, and then when you load the objects in
the Layout it crashes when you launch the rendering.

OK but did you SAVE THE OBJECTS IN THE LAYOUT,
I mean the objects that are imported and on which you
applied the textures IN THE MODELER !!!

File > Save All Objects

Did you do that ???

It's very important.

Else it could be a RAM touble but it's surprising though
as you got 1,5 Gb… About what size are your textures ?

And did you try the rendering of for example only one object ?
If not maybe you should try, then another after loading a 2d object,
then a third one etc. to see where it comes from…

squidsquidsquid
07-29-2003, 01:25 PM
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I do "save all objects" in layout. I am also only attempting to render the "trouble" object (a chair). The total size of all image maps is somewhere around 2MB.

I have read that having an alpha channel in any of your images can cause problems, and none of my images do. They're all grayscale or rgb targas. The only thing unique about this model is that it has many layers of image maps. The texture and bump channels each have around 5 layers, including a few alpha layers.

Now, I've kinda found a workaround, in that as long as the textures are applied to a clean model of the chair (no textures applied before being opened in Layout), then saved in layout, it will render fine. The moment I resave the same model in modeler (with or without adjustments to textures), Layout will crash when rendering this object. I suppose for this particular object, I'll have to do any adjustments inside layout.

Seems like a strange, very particular problem to me, and it only effects this one object.

lasco
07-30-2003, 02:49 AM
well I'm afraid I can't help more, my knowledge is too limited…

could come from this alpha channel thing yes, or from the targa format
on Mac I don't know…
Maybe try it on LW 7.5…

I personnaly render scenes on nearly the same computer than yours
(dual 867 G4 / 1,7 Gb RAM) and has quite few troubles of that kind.
On the other hand I only use .psd, .jpg or .png for textures and almost never
use alpha channels…