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Visionarymonkey
03-12-2008, 09:45 PM
Ok.....so I will state at the beginning of this rant...That I have had way to many glasses of wine, and heard way to many lame posts on this forum.

That said, for those who have been in my same position at some point in their life.... read and at the very least set this aside as a rant from just a rather normal fellow who has enjoyed my experience with Lightwave. I don't have the background or experience that many on this forum have, but I have been a hobbyist/ semi professional artist working for local firms in my area since version 5.0 (certainly nothing to write home about).

So with that slight intro, I want to say, I am absolutely ashamed by some of the thoughts and ideas spread throughout this forum. When I first started learning and playing with Lightwave I was young (8th grade, 14 years old) My first experience was with a program called Corel Dream 3d and then I worked with Truespace. As a very young adult (really not knowing much of anything, life or 3d wise) I choose to spend my time learning a very expensive piece of software to me and my parents called Lightwave.

I have to admit I looked forward to each Christmas when I would get a new version of Lightwave. Sadly at that point of my life I just couldn't wait to see the new images on the box and hoped I could at some point come close to recreating them.

So my point...to this long and drawn out rant is that we all need to think back to what we had when we started, (And for many on this forum it's way before I even knew anything about a computer). It comes down to the person/artist. It really does not matter what program you have, or in more simple terms...what type of pencil you have. You have to have the ARTISTIC/ CREATIVE skills first The program/software you use is just an extension of your ability (Just like a pencil or paintbrush to a traditional artist).

I think to often we blame the software we use or the company who created the software.

Those of you who are struggling with your own work or self gratification should honestly look at your the work you produce, and question if you have the needed abilities to create the art or designs needed for your given industry.

What made me choose Lightwave many years ago, was because of the potential I saw in the artists who were using it and what I hoped to do sometime in my future.

Way before 9.5, people were doing great work, and 100's of years before that, people changed the world with their ideas and imagination.

I just think there are to many out there waiting for a piece of software to fix their obvious inability to create good pieces of art(lack of traditional artistic skills). The software we use will always be just a tool such as a pencil or a set of paints. It's up to us as artists to use those tools to come up with great new works of art. Just because what we do is done on a computer does not mean that anyone who owns or uses a computer can do what do.

So to be rather blunt...Those waiting for the perfect software to create your masterpiece....Keep looking. It's still an art, and the best thing you can do to improve you abilities .....way beyond a Lightwave Update is to o pick-up a DAMN pencil or paintbrush. you will be amazed what practice will do.

For those who made it through this drunken/bad grammer rant...thanks so much, and I will always have gratitude for those who helped me with the many questions I had when I first started using Lightwave.

liquidpope
03-12-2008, 09:51 PM
Word.

globalnode
03-12-2008, 10:01 PM
you work for NT?
I agree with most of what you say, but there is something to be said for quality programing and production ready features that do not need work arounds...
going by what you are saying... one should be able to create the same art with chalk and stone as they do in 3d software...?

Nicolas Jordan
03-12-2008, 10:01 PM
:agree: Even though it's exciting to see new technology that makes our lives easier as 3d artists, it never fails to amaze me what has been done with previous versions of Lightwave prior to all these modern advances with software and hardware capabilities. When I started using Lightwave I remember seeing some pretty cool work being done in 5.6 and 6.0 that even holds up very well against todays standards.

Visionarymonkey
03-12-2008, 10:17 PM
HAHA, Don't work for NT

And....I I have to admit I am mainly a hobbiest, so my opinions may not be suitable for others in the industry.

I agree, with your statement, but I have a bad feeling...and honestly I don't know to much about anyone personally on this forum. But that there are a lot of people looking for a perfect piece of software to fix their lack of genuine artistic ability. In most cases, if you look at a person portfolio, their traditional work is as amazing if not more than their 3d work.... that was mainly my reason for my post. We all want a good piece of software or the right medium to express our artistic abilities, but we also don't want the software to become an excuse for our own lack of abilities....which I think happens very often in the 3d industry. Lightwave, in the right hands can create amazing works of art.

liquidpope
03-12-2008, 10:25 PM
Having all of the best woodworking tools ever made will not make you a carpenter.
Lightwave is great, but it's just a tool. Creative vision must be within the individual.

tyrot
03-12-2008, 10:59 PM
but it's just a tool.

dear pope

Lightwave is everything but a tool..

best



(it is a community, a school, friendship lounge, cult, choice of business, endless inspiration, money, food on table, amazing feeling of being minority but competing with majority, 405, fascination, hard work, commitment, never ending reason for posting something, major divorce reason (that is personal), being alone in a room of dozen of Max,Maya artists yet feeling more powerful than everyone combined, sleepless nights, recieving reiki-type energy from other users' one man success stories, feeling like tesla (newtek) in the world edison (autodesk), feeling like Anton Bruckner in the world of Brahms, major reason to leave bad habits (tv, unnecassary human interaction which can cause loss of time and money), some health problems because of not sleeping and constant sitting, hallucinations, loss of youth, hair (it's been 11 years), shaping your 3D meshes and the Alive Meshes around you (wife, girlfriend, family) with proper tools (gifts, vacations) ............many other things...and yes the major reason to pick up guitar and keyboard )

liquidpope
03-12-2008, 11:03 PM
...and speaking of tools...


:thumbsup:

Hopper
03-12-2008, 11:15 PM
I don't want to start down the negative side of this road, because I agree with what you are saying, but please keep in mind the business perspective of things. For quite a few people here on the forum, LW and many other tools are an investment. They rely on these tools to remain competative in the market. When certain expectations are promised and not met, it affects the bottom line. It's true that many great works have been produced with the tools we already have, however when production descisions are made to purchase tools because of their ability to produce state-of-the-art products, there is a certain expectation for those tools to have a return on investment. Some shops can afford to buy all the tools they need, while others have to simply make an educated descision based on budget, requirements and a ton of other factors. Some people say "Well if you don't like it, go use something else." Although that may be fine for some, sometimes it's more expensive to switch to another product. And I don't mean simply the actual cost of the software, but the time and effort it takes to get over the learning curve, change your pipeline, put projects on hold, etc...

And I'm aware there are about 1000 arguments for and against what I'm saying, but my point is that it's not only about the ability of the artist to be "artistic". Sometimes it's simply about the bottom line and putting food on the table.

And for those like myself that enjoy using LW as a hobby, but choose to whine, *****, and moan about how horrible it is of NT to hold off on a beta release that probably won't get you any closer to modeling that nifty "key-chain-on-table" project, please... for all of our sakes and sanity... shut the hell up and wait in line like the rest of us.

KevinL
03-12-2008, 11:33 PM
I played with programming simple, basic BASIC in college. I'm not a math wiz so I'm not really suited for programming code. I put in a lot of complex work for very, very simple things. This said by way of saying:

Programming ain't simple. Complex programming is an enormous task. A 3d modeling, animating, surfacing, rendering application is highly complex. You don't press 5 buttons and have a module. You dont simply hook up a couple OS API's and have a useful tool. On this forum, I sometimes get the sense that folks think programming is a simple task. What I think to myself is, could I program anything even close to an app like Lightwave. H*** no. So I'm happy with what Newteks programmers are doing and try to remember that there is a boat load of stuff happening to bring me the app I now have and the one that is waiting in the wings.

Not being a fanboy, I've eighty-sixed a number of applications that didn't deliver. But I give credit to Newtek for striving forward and putting up with a continual stream of features request, complaints, and demands that info be provided and then b**** about that info. Example Newtek said early March, early March is now expired but they stated delivery is close and I trust it will happen (sure it's not always accurate as to the exact time they stated) but I would much rather have them crush a couple of bugs that surfaced or address a functionality than have them deliver those to us and then issue a patch 5 days later....

I could go on and on (in fact I did :)

Hopper
03-12-2008, 11:39 PM
:agree: Well said.

waly
03-13-2008, 03:36 AM
I thing that software improvement is a very good thing and we should never stop asking for more. Because technology is developing very fast and the market requests and expectations are higher than ever ( i mean in quality matter).

So what im saying is why not for new tool s that make our life easier. Why not for render engines that render faster so that saves our time etc...

by the way i don't blame NT for being late with the 9.5 beta release, they are doing a great job i can wait some more time just so they don t do things in hurry and experience bugs.
I m sure of that, NT want s more than us all to release in time 9.5 beta but you ll never know what s happening in the house.

Darth Mole
03-13-2008, 03:54 AM
A pencil doesn't suddenly stop working half-way through a drawing and then instantaneously erase the picture you were making.

caccipergolo
03-13-2008, 03:58 AM
dear pope

Lightwave is everything but a tool..

best



(it is a community, a school, friendship lounge, cult, choice of business, endless inspiration, money, food on table, amazing feeling of being minority but competing with majority, 405, fascination, hard work, commitment, never ending reason for posting something, major divorce reason (that is personal), being alone in a room of dozen of Max,Maya artists yet feeling more powerful than everyone combined, sleepless nights, recieving reiki-type energy from other users' one man success stories, feeling like tesla (newtek) in the world edison (autodesk), feeling like Anton Bruckner in the world of Brahms, major reason to leave bad habits (tv, unnecassary human interaction which can cause loss of time and money), some health problems because of not sleeping and constant sitting, hallucinations, loss of youth, hair (it's been 11 years), shaping your 3D meshes and the Alive Meshes around you (wife, girlfriend, family) with proper tools (gifts, vacations) ............many other things...and yes the major reason to pick up guitar and keyboard )


You tuch me .... really man!:thumbsup:

archijam
03-13-2008, 04:03 AM
A pencil doesn't suddenly stop working half-way through a drawing and then instantaneously erase the picture you were making.

I don't know what you are telling your pencil to do, but mine's working fine ... faster than ever, actually.

Steamthrower
03-13-2008, 09:25 AM
(it is a community, a school, friendship lounge, cult, choice of business, endless inspiration, money, food on table, amazing feeling of being minority but competing with majority, 405, fascination, hard work, commitment, never ending reason for posting something, major divorce reason (that is personal), being alone in a room of dozen of Max,Maya artists yet feeling more powerful than everyone combined, sleepless nights, recieving reiki-type energy from other users' one man success stories, feeling like tesla (newtek) in the world edison (autodesk), feeling like Anton Bruckner in the world of Brahms, major reason to leave bad habits (tv, unnecassary human interaction which can cause loss of time and money), some health problems because of not sleeping and constant sitting, hallucinations, loss of youth, hair (it's been 11 years), shaping your 3D meshes and the Alive Meshes around you (wife, girlfriend, family) with proper tools (gifts, vacations) ............many other things...and yes the major reason to pick up guitar and keyboard )

Man, Tyrot, good little paragraph there. Well said. I think I might copy/paste that.

And Mr. Visionary Monkey: you do make a good point. Your point applies to everything. Worth thinking on. But a lot of things, like Tyrot said, are more than a tool.

archijam
03-13-2008, 09:29 AM
When I look at what pooby (and studio) are working on now in their spare time, and the transformer animation by a 20yo LWer, I am reminded that I could get alot more out of LW than I currently do ...