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drclare
07-16-2003, 11:56 AM
Apple has a few new promos for Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro. One of which is Final Cut Express for free if you use Adobe Premiere. You just send them your Premiere CD and they mail you Final Cut Express for free. Man, Apple's stickin it to Adobe for no more mac compatibility with Premiere. They are going to put Premiere in the ground pretty quick.

Final Cut Express Promo (http://www.apple.com/finalcut/offer/)

js33
07-16-2003, 12:11 PM
Cool. Good thing I held off getting Express of FCP. Now I have a good reason to look into it.:D

Also DVDSP price is only $500 now. I wonder how Adobe's Encore will compare to DVDSP. I bet they will be pretty close in functionality.

Man waiting is turning out to be a good thing. I guess companies are feeling the effects from the slow economy and good deals are turning up everywhere.

Cheers,
JS

panini
07-16-2003, 01:10 PM
I think it's Adobe doing the sticking.

Free stuff has always been a sign of desperation.
Adobe actually says that FCPro ( full version ) may be offered by Apple for free in the future, one of the reasons they want out of Mac world.

In a few years Jobs managed to get Mac market share from about 5.5% to 1.9%.

At this rate don't expect Apple to be around by 2005

Quite frankly I wouldn't switch to FCPro even if it were free and came with a free G5

Beamtracer
07-16-2003, 03:18 PM
panini, your post is very funny...

Originally posted by panini
I think it's Adobe doing the sticking.Poor ol' Adobe. They lost it. Had to retreat to the Windows platform. If they could have sold Premiere to Mac users they would have tried. The Mac users voted with their dollars.

Originally posted by panini
Free stuff has always been a sign of desperation. Some of the most successful sales campaigns have been based on giving away a "lite" version of a product, but charging for the full version. I think it's a very shrewd move by Apple. I wonder if it applies to Windows users of Premiere who want to jump ship to FCP.

Originally posted by panini
In a few years Jobs managed to get Mac market share from about 5.5% to 1.9%. Figures are misleading. Apple currently has a backlog of orders for the G5, stretching into September and even October in some places. Apple is doing very very well with the G5.

Originally posted by panini
At this rate don't expect Apple to be around by 2005Ha! Haven't we all heard that before, since 1977 they've been saying that! It's always amusing.
Originally posted by panini
Quite frankly I wouldn't switch to FCPro even if it were free and came with a free G5
That's just the point, panini. Nobody will pay you to use Premiere. You can't get a professional editing job using it.

The pro editors are all going FCP!

panini
07-16-2003, 03:29 PM
#1. I use Vegas for video editing and work for myself ( don't need a regular job )

#2. Since last weekend I'm on dual Opterons ( 1.8 ghz each )
64 bit computing anybody???

Where is your 64bit G5??????

The beauty of it is it cost only slightly above $2500 since I was able to use most of my current components, so all I needed was
MB, cpus and memory.

check out how it stacks up against your ( still vaporvare ) G5

http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1296&page=2

EctoHippy
07-16-2003, 03:34 PM
Yeah... companies that post profits when the economy is in the toilet just never make it ;)

Their overall marketshare isn't that bad (IDC has em at 2.9%), and in some sectors they have been able to grow their marketshare, namely consumer and notebook.

consumer share is at 3.4% up from 1.9% 2 years ago

laptop share is at 6.8% up from .3% 2 years ago.

(numbers gathered from Investors Business Daily article on apple's retail stores found here: http://biz.yahoo.com/ibd/030715/tech_1.html)

That leaves the pro desktop market to blame for their lagging overall marketshare, which hopefully will turn around with the debut of the G5 (who's estimated delivery date got bumped up to before August 29th... woohoo... wish I could afford one right now).

And finally... Express isn't "free" more in that it's a trade in, you send em your Premier disks and they send you Express.

Ok... I lied... that wasn't finally... this is... I swear... I highly doubt FCP will go from being a $1000 app to FREE... I can just imagine that conversation
Apple grunt - "Hey Steve... lets give away this app we charge 1000 smackers for and get heaps of praise and awards for"
Steve - "Sure, it's not like we are in this for the money"

ok... I think I'm out of sarcasm... back to Photoshop I go...

-Hippy with a little too much free time today

Beamtracer
07-16-2003, 04:10 PM
Market share figures are usually taken from monthly shipments of new units. It doesn't take into account the existing user base.

A lot of Apple users have been holding off buying a new machine. They haven't switched to Microsoft Windows. These will be G5 buyers.

As a result, I think that monthly Macs sold in July will be next to nothing (will they claim that Apple has a 1% share?) as nobody I mean nobodywill buy a new Mac this month. Then in August and September the monthly figures will skyrocket, and cause a spike in the graph.
Originally posted by panini
#1. I use Vegas for video editing and work for myself ( don't need a regular job ) For backwater video jobs, Windows machines have always been adequate. Maybe you'd like to try your hand at wedding videos also.
Originally posted by panini
Where is your 64bit G5??????Where is your 64-bit Windows? Or is it true that Microsoft has hobbled your processor so that it only runs Windows in 32-bit mode? Hmmm?

mlinde
07-16-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by panini
Free stuff has always been a sign of desperation.

Does that mean Microsoft was desperate when the released IE? How about Media Player 9? How about Outlook Express?

That free comment is a crock of @#$%. First of all, Jobs had nothing to do with the user base dropping from 5.5% to 1.9% When Jobs came back to Apple, the percentage of "new" computers sold (the actual statistic you are trying to quote) that were desktop Macs hovered just about 3%. Yes, by IDG data studies, it's dropped to about 2.2% this last quarter. Apple has also increased market share in portables from 0.6 to 6.8%. Didn't see that in your post.

Apple put up the FCE/FCP offers to entice current Mac Premiere users to continue to edit video on the Mac, rather than buy a Windows system to continue editing in Premiere. In addition, they probably think they may sell some G5s and eventually Shake to some of the Premiere users. I don't think that's likely, since you are talking about 2 very different markets, but that's not desperation, it's marketing.


Originally posted by Beamtracer
For backwater video jobs, Windows machines have always been adequate. Maybe you'd like to try your hand at wedding videos also.

Beam, I hate to hit you here, but Windows leapfrogged the Mac on video editing in the late 90s, until the release of FCP brought a bit of market parity. I agree with you that panini is a bit hostile, and perhaps bitter (no free Vegas upgrades for him, eh?) but the truth of business has always been the dollar. If you client gets what they want, they don't care if you did it on a $500 Celeron or a $3000 Mac, just that you did it.

Beamtracer
07-16-2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by mlinde
If you client gets what they want, they don't care if you did it on a $500 Celeron or a $3000 Mac, just that you did it. I disagree there. I think that clients (especially in post production) are extremely influenced by the brand name of the equipment.

This is how some post production companies are able to charge much more for using hardware from Discreet, Quantel or Avid, when the same product could have been done at a fraction of he cost on other equipment.

Clients who turn up at post production houses like to think that they are indulging in the high-end (and the caviar and champagne hand-outs that go with it). The perceived advantages of these brand names are greater than the actual advantages.

The clients' indulgence in French champagne adds to the indecision, thereby increasing the post production costs, and increasing profits to the production company.

Ade
07-16-2003, 07:21 PM
Apple now needs to release a 2d picture edittor and piss of photoshop!

riki
07-16-2003, 07:32 PM
Wow how much have things changed. Looks like Safari has killed Mac IE and now Netscape has closed up shop. I never would've thought I'd see the day, no Netscape and no IE. Personally I use them both for differtent things.

Anyway it could be a good thing. Mac IE was dead development wise.

drclare
07-16-2003, 08:06 PM
Hey Ade, did you mean piss OFF Photoshop or piss ON Photoshop? Cause I think either would be appropriate.

Beamtracer
07-16-2003, 08:51 PM
Adobe tried to "piss on" all Mac users with its 'PC Preferred' web page. Now they suffer the consequences.

Looks what's happening on user forums around with world. Mac users are spitting absolute venom towards Adobe, and these are Adobe customers.

Public relations disaster for Adobe. The continue to defecate in their own nest, by giving interviews to various media companies and threatening to withdraw more Adobe products from the Mac.

How on earth will they attract any new Mac customers to their products. What Mac user in their right mind would spend thousands of dollars on a company that makes such threats?

Adobe is now self destructing.

js33
07-16-2003, 09:17 PM
I think you are blowing it out of proportion Beam as you have a tendency to do with just about everything.;)

OK so there goes Photoshop.:(
What are you going to use now. Film gimp?:D

What about After Effects?:mad:
OK now all Mac users get to shell out $5000 for Shake.

OK what if Adobe pulls support for Postscript?
No more DTP.:(

What about Illustrator?
No more graphic designers.:o

What about PDF?
Opps there goes the Mac interface.:D

Obviously one company can't hit a home run with all their products but I think Adobe does a very good job overall.

Cheers,
JS

panini
07-16-2003, 10:16 PM
Where's my 64 bit windows?

Doing the lunch with your Mac 64 bit OS, I guess.

At least I made my decision and went with a cheaper and faster option. Chips are here at least and in my case make a lot of difference running on 32 bit windows. Whenever 64bit Windows shows up , I'm ready ( I hear it will be before your 64 bit OS too )

Yeah, I don't know which world you live in, but Vegas invented 1/2 of the stuff you see in FCPro and was first with no rendering required previews. PCs have been the choice for video editing since mid 90s. Adobe simply stated the obvious, they got tired of having their apps like After effects run 3 times slower on Macs.

Talking about high end? If you think it's that important then spend $50 000+ on Avid.

FCPro is a $1000 home enthusiast app. designed by the same guy who designed premiere ( bet you didn't know that, now you know why it isn't much better than premiere which in my opinion is a slow crawly piece of crap ).
Hardly high end in any serious video editor's book.

I agree that if you know how, both Vegas and FCPro can do almost anything Avids can, but since you're so stuck up on the importance of High End, then sorry FCPro isn't it. No clent will feel like he's indulging himself by showing up at your studio and watching you fiddle around on your raspberry iMac with a $1000 wedding wideo application called FCPro.
Have you checked the difference in sound editing you can do with Vegas compared to FCPro, It's laughable. FCPro looks like a toy.

You could at least shell out some extra cash and get Newtek's V.Toaster.

For me, I can get the job done using 25% of what's in Vegas.
Never crashes, quick workflow, who needs anything else.

To answer your question , why windows users showed up here. I showed up because I was interested in G5, now I just drop in to continue whatever conversation was started back then.
Not interested in G5 anymore.

drclare
07-16-2003, 10:44 PM
It must be nice living in your own little world.

And by the way. You're never going to win an argument like this in a mac forum.

js33
07-16-2003, 10:47 PM
Beam I have to agree with panini about Vegas Video. It is a really good program. I have dabbled with it and it is really fast on the previews. Haven't really messed with FCP so I can't compare the two. I read on the 2-pop FCP forum that people are having a lot of problems with FCP4. I guess its growing pains as I haven't been to that forum in awhile.

Cheers,
JS

panini
07-17-2003, 01:46 AM
I've already won this argument. Whether some of the Mac people here see that or continue to live in denial, that's another matter.

Vegas is the best Video Editing app. under $3000, Period.

I know a bunch of people who use Avids at work and FCPro at home. All sorts of problems with FCP. Better than Premiere, but Vegas is better for a number of reasons.


Well, I wouldn't know about my little world. That is something Mac people know a lot more about. I live in the other 95+ % market share world.

Jimzip
07-17-2003, 10:41 AM
Panini.
I'm not one to really get into these 'flame wars', but honestly, grow up.
I understand that Beam's being too enthusiastic and making mountains out of theoretical mole hills here a bit, if you're reading Beam, let's not get carried away being too pro Mac here, it's blatantly obvious to even that blind granny in Greece that you love your machine a lot.

panini, if you come into this forum, called by the way, LW - MAC, obviously you are going to get someone reigning fire on you if you badmouth the Mac platform. We're happy in our '5% market share world'. We have a platform we're satisfied with, apparently, you do also. I'm extremely happy for you. It's not often you find something in life that you're willing to sound your voice out over. Let's at least keep it all civil?

Also, all of us here in 5% land please realise that we are skating on thin ice with Adobe and that we also play a part in the Mac marketing scheme. Remember that half the programs they invented were originally for the Macintosh. Photoshop if I'm not mistaken, is the best image-editing software around. PDF is one of the more crucial parts of OSX.. I think it was cheap of them to pull out Premiere also, but that's their 'marketing decision'. We certainly do not want to lose Photoshop or Illustrator. Jobs is pulling the right strings in this particular issue and trying to give the users something to stay around for. God knows Apple needs more than 5% of the market share. They certainly deserve it. I feel awful and ashamed when people from the MS world taunt and provoke us about using this platform, it's not like the two worlds are neck and neck in competition is it? It's almost the schoolyard bully syndrome, let's tease them 'cause we can.
So Beam, and all other Mac vocalists (yes, I said vocalists.. Not activists), let's all be nice to our fellow Windows using Lightwavers, let them see the good side of the Mac world for themselves, and show them if need be. But please:

NO MORE FLAMING IN THE LIGHTWAVE FORUMS!

Jimzip:(
(please note also the lack of my usual :D ..)

dark_lotus
07-17-2003, 11:48 PM
panini: You come into a mac forum, and badmouth macs.

Grow Up.

Orange
07-18-2003, 04:55 AM
Well done, Jimpzip!

hildog
08-04-2003, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by panini
...Hardly high end in any serious video editor's book...No clent will feel like he's indulging himself by showing up at your studio and watching you fiddle around on your raspberry iMac with a $1000 wedding wideo application called FCPro.

Sorry to revisit this, but, uh, yeah...this guy's a pretty serious editor:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1772771

mlinde
08-04-2003, 09:13 AM
On topic for the free FCE: I shipped off my old Premiere 4.2 CD last week, and my new FCE should be here this week. Quicker than the predicted six-week turnaround.

drclare
08-04-2003, 10:20 AM
Yeah, i sent my cd in the first day of the promo and got FCE in a week. Not bad, i expected it to take more than 6.

harlan
08-04-2003, 06:32 PM
Panini has proven time and time again that he has the intelligence level of a horses ***, so I won't get into his blatantly incompetent anti-mac nonsense, but I do find it humorous that he couldn't be paid to use FCP yet he uses Vegas as his main editing app. That's funny on soooo many levels.

No offense or anything to Vegas users, its a great product, but a little too "toyish" in my opinion.

serpicolugnut
08-05-2003, 11:01 AM
Is this dude for real with statements that Vegas is the best video editing app for under $3000... I've used that piece of garbage and found it seriously lacking. Now, if you change $3000 to $300, then maybe it's a deal (for a Windows only app, except it retails for closer to $450)... But Final Cut Express is a much better app.

And FCP being for the "home enthusiast"? Gimme a break. FCP is used by more professionals than Vegas, VT and Premiere all combined - and this is on a platform that is considered a minority player in the industry. Please. Your reference to the Strawberry iMac reveals your ignorance. How many pro users are using Vegas in videos, tv, movies? Well, if anybody is they aren't bragging about it because I've yet to hear of anyone using it for anything more than assembling someones lame demo reel.

You are one underbaked loaf of bread my friend....

mlinde
08-05-2003, 01:11 PM
Just a bit on the professionalism of FCP -- some guy named Steven Soderbergh has used it a couple of times, most recently on a small video called "Full Frontal." But he's just some crack at his home computer -- if he were a 'real' director and editor he'd use Vegas, just like panini. :rolleyes:

Darth Mole
08-05-2003, 03:10 PM
This guy, panini - does he always walk into lions' dens wearing nothing but a grin and six sides of raw veal tied to his arse...?

Beamtracer
08-05-2003, 03:34 PM
panini is a Microsoft Windows user (and lover) who doesn't own a Mac but often enjoys coming onto the Mac Lightwave forum just to rattle everyone's cage. You see it time and time again.