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pumeco
03-09-2008, 05:00 AM
Argh! - Missed all the excitement :)

I've got a few questions about 9.5 because after having a quick browse here, I can't seem to find a definitive answer to them. I think overyone's on a high right now and it's having a side effect on your concentration.

Ah well, here they are :

1:
How do I get my beta? I've joined the open beta about two days ago but it's not available in my downloads area. Instead, it's still listing the 9.3 beta.

2:
Does the new hair feature work with FPrime? If it doesn't then I think I'm about to drop FPrime like a bad smell. I'm getting tired of having great features that don't work with FPrime. It might be just me, but it seem as if everything I'm not interested in will work with FPrime, but everything I want to work ... doesn't

3:
Does the new hair feature work with Viper? At least that's something if it turns out it won't work with FPrime.

4:
Have they fixed that annoying problem where the camera navigation controls are disabled whenever you're looking through the camera?


Cheers :lwicon:

jcaesar
03-09-2008, 05:05 AM
Well for #1, it hasn't been released yet. Anything shown from 9.5 is from the closed beta participants. So you can be registered, but you can't download it yet..

hrgiger
03-09-2008, 06:45 AM
On # 4: I believe he's referring to the viewport controls up in the upper right hand corner of the window that are enabled when you're in anything other then camera view. I just wonder if he realizes that when you're in camera view, and you have camera selected, that you navigate through the window itself and not the viewport controls. Because it's the same thing. And personally, I think it's better and more intuitive.

On #1: What jcaesar said.

On #2 and #3: There is no indication yet that the new hair feature works with either Fprime or VIPER. But then there's no indication that it doesn't work or that it won't work in the near future. That's one we're just going to have to wait to find out. But guesses from the people who have tested it indicates it might not.

pumeco
03-09-2008, 07:24 AM
@jcaesar
Ah right, that's ok then; I though I'd missed something out. Cheers!

@Pagnozzi
I meant like hrgiger just pointed out, but I hope NewTek won't see it the same as 'giger (see next part).

@hrgiger
I can see why you feel it's intuative as it is, but you probably use shortcuts a lot, whereas I don't. This camera thing is (without doubt) the most annoying aspect of getting along with LightWave ... it's driving me nuts!!! Being able to manipulate the camera by clicking in the window is fine, but the problem for me is that I hate having to constantly switch between Move, Rotate, and Pan just to get the camera where I want it.

To better explain, think about how you use the camera in the Perspective view when in Modeler. You have the same controls in the top-right of the window. These controls are a 'lot' better than having to switch between modes all the time. Now, when you consider those same controls are available in Layout - but get switched-off when you go into camera view - it's absolutely ridiculous.

Why on earth they have it like that is beyond reason for me, I just don't see the point in it. It's making camera positioning a lot more awkward than it needs to be. The controls are already there - I just wish they wouldn't disable the bloody things when you're in the mode you'll most likely want to use them.

It might be harder for long-term LightWavers to see how this is pointless. But coming from other app's to LightWave, this current system is a freaking nightmare. For them to activate those buttons in camera view is the single most important thing I want to see. It's just so unnecessarry, awkward, and pointless the way it is now.

As for FPrime and Viper working with the new hair system, I'm not holding my breath. Still, that's not to say I won't be bitterly dissappointed if it doesn't. I'd love a hair system as good as Carrara's in LightWave. By that, I mean as quick and intuative to use as it is.

Anyway, no matter what, thumbs-up to NewTek. I wasn't expecting major new features in 9.5 so this is a pleasant surprise. I just hope you'll enable those camera buttons...

...PLEASE enable those camera buttons.

UnCommonGrafx
03-09-2008, 08:04 AM
I believe they have it that way because it IS more intuitive. It's like being a camera operator versus controlling a camera with a remote control.
All the other viewports are remote controls; when in the camera mode, that puppy is right on your shoulder and you are in charge! hehe

The best I could side with you is if they were to give you an option to leave the buttons on. But if they changed that to the ONLY option it would really be a dagger in one of the more positive aspects of camera control in LW.

pumeco
03-09-2008, 08:24 AM
That'd be cool, Robert. I'm certainly not suggesting they change the current way of doing things, but it would be great if they enabled those controls for folk like me and others coming from Bryce, Carrara, or just about any other 3D application. I can imagine this camera setup is going to put a lot of people off LightWave to be honest.

It put's me off big-time, although I'm determined to put-up with it.
Wish I didn't have to though - it's totally ruining my enjoyment in Layout.

Lottmedia
03-09-2008, 09:22 AM
That'd be cool, Robert. I'm certainly not suggesting they change the current way of doing things, but it would be great if they enabled those controls for folk like me and others coming from Bryce, Carrara, or just about any other 3D application. I can imagine this camera setup is going to put a lot of people off LightWave to be honest.

It put's me off big-time, although I'm determined to put-up with it.
Wish I didn't have to though - it's totally ruining my enjoyment in Layout.

I don't mean to be demunitive here, but you're making your argument from someone using, arguably, entry level software, and Lightwave is targeted as a more professional app. More than any other app I've used, Lightwave's cameras act like real cameras in 3d space. You move them like you would real cameras on a set. (Try combining that with a motion matching system to see just how wonderful that is.) Like I said, I don't want to be condesending, but what you're essentially asking is to de-evolve Lightwave into a less powerful app based on your past experience with more basic software. I think what you'll find if you contiue using more sophisticated software is that cameras treated like real-world cameras are the norm and there is a reason for it.

Casey :cat:

hrgiger
03-09-2008, 09:48 AM
Pumeco, I don't use shortcuts very much myself but there are a few operations that I use so much that using the shortcut is the only way to go in my opinion. I might suggest that you just learn a basic few, I think you'll find it will save you a lot of time. T for move or Y for rotate. Or even better, you can specify whatever keys you think would be best suited to the task. I'm not suggesting you learn to use shortcuts all the time, just a few standard ones. I think you'll thank yourself for it later.

pixelranger
03-09-2008, 09:49 AM
STOP USING THE BUTTONS AND GET USED TO HOT KEYS!!! I can't believe people still use their energy on finding and clicking on buttons to get their tasks done! I promise you, your workflow will get 1.000.000 percent faster!

Lottmedia
03-09-2008, 10:29 AM
I agree with hrgiger. I don't use the shortcuts as much as I could. Mostly just T Y H and B. I'm sure using them more could make me faster, but not better. It's all about how you work. My creative process benefits from the pausing every now and again to find a particular tool I don't often use.

Casey

pumeco
03-09-2008, 01:00 PM
@Lottmedia
Hello, I think you're mad :D

@hrgiger
I think you are too :D

@pixelranger
No escape for you either :D


You know what, I bet there's not one of you actually bothered to compare the functionality between the Perspective view in Modeler, and the Camera View in Layout. It's actually quite easy to prove that LightWaves current method in Layout is cumbersome :

Steps required to Move, Rotate, and Pan in Modeler Perspective :

> Click on Move.
> Click on Rotate.
> Click on Pan.

TOTAL CLICKS = 3


Steps required to Move, Rotate, and Pan in Layout Camera view :

> Click to select Move.
> Click on screen to Move.
> Click to select Rotate.
> Click on screen to Rotate.
> Click to select Pan.
> Click on screen to Pan.

TOTAL CLICKS = 6


Now, unless you're totally sadistic or get a kinky thrill out of making it harder for yourself, I'm afraid to tell y'all that the way it's done in Modeler is the best and most productive method of the two (nothing will convince me otherwise). Shortcuts don't hold as a positive side either because whether you use shortcuts or have to keep doing that mind-numbing selection between each mode with the mouse wheel - the point is it would not be needed if only it were designed like it is in modeler.

OK, fair enough, Bryce and Carrara are generally not regarded as 'PRO' in the sense that LightWave is, but the point is EVERY 3D application I've ever used works like this. It's no secret here that I'm an ex-Cinema4D user, and I can tell you that 'is' a 'PRO' application, and it's camera is still handled like 99.9% of the rest of the industry. Lightwave's implementation is clunky in comparison.

Enabling those icons when looking through the camera is no bad thing - believe me.

hrgiger
03-09-2008, 01:19 PM
Actually, no. It's merely switching between move and rotate with the T or Y keys. From there it's all done with the mouse in the viewport to move, pan, and rotate. So technically, it's 0 clicks outside the viewport with the mouse, two keys and mouse movements/buttons. Anytime you have to leave the viewport with your mouse, you're killing workflow. Just get to know the tools, you'll like em.

pumeco
03-09-2008, 01:29 PM
Actually, no. It's merely switching between move and rotate with the T or Y keys.

Yes, but what I'm saying is you wouldn't need switch between anything if it worked like it does in Modeler and the rest of the industry. Seriously, I can't get to like the camera tool as it is - I've tried - it's just pointless. What's most irritating about this though is that the controls are there - there when you move around in any view but the damned camera view - and that's when you need it most.

I mean, can anyone even begin to see the reasoning behind that?
Why have them but disable them in their most useful context?

Lottmedia
03-09-2008, 01:33 PM
OK. You're convienced your right and nothign is going to change that. My time is better spent other places.

hrgiger
03-09-2008, 01:36 PM
The perspective view in modeler and camera view in Layout are entirely two different things. I'm not sure why the controls should be the same for both.

Besides, I want to move the camera directly as I'm looking through it (as it is now). not look through the camera and use outside controls like the viewport controls to move the camera. I just don't understand what you find so confounding about it. To each his own I guess.

pumeco
03-09-2008, 01:40 PM
No offence to anyone, I give up!

I just hope NewTek will enable the camera navigation buttons while actually looking through the camera.

Firestar3D
03-09-2008, 01:42 PM
STOP USING THE BUTTONS AND GET USED TO HOT KEYS!!! I can't believe people still use their energy on finding and clicking on buttons to get their tasks done! I promise you, your workflow will get 1.000.000 percent faster!

What he said. Shortcuts are your friend.

Nicolas Jordan
03-09-2008, 01:45 PM
STOP USING THE BUTTONS AND GET USED TO HOT KEYS!!! I can't believe people still use their energy on finding and clicking on buttons to get their tasks done! I promise you, your workflow will get 1.000.000 percent faster!

Yep, Lightwave is definitely a hotkey program. I don't even know where to find most stuff in menus since I use hotkeys 85% of the time. Knowing the hotkeys can make any user more than twice as fast and productive in Lightwave.

pumeco
03-09-2008, 02:06 PM
The thing is I'm not one for shortcuts - but that's just me I suppose.

I've no intention of dumping LightWave just to be able to use a camera as normal. You'd need a crowbar to part me from LightWave now, and even then you'd bend your crowbar and fail. I suppose that's one of the reasons I find this so infuriating; because I hate the bloody camera thing but I like everything else.

Judging from the responses here, it doesn't seem as if it well ever be added either, and that feels quite sickening to be honest. I'm amazed people can't see what I'm getting at here.


Anyway, no prob's.
I still think you're all nut's though :hammer:

tayotain2
03-09-2008, 03:23 PM
Learn 5 - 10 hotkeys and you are LOT happier... and FASTER! Then learn more.
Somebody made a script that checks how much you have used different tools and makes a log. then you can check what tools you use most and learn shortcuts for those. :thumbsup:

Silkrooster
03-09-2008, 03:24 PM
Reading this thread, I just thought of a compromise (or I think so anyways) If they would add a small script that would place the camera at the location of the perspective view and the reverse. This way you can move around the scene using ther perspective controls, then click a button to snap the camera to that location. The opposite would be nice as well, moving the perspective view around and then decide you want it the same as the camera location, which is great when your view is way out of range.
Anybody that has ever used Bryce knows what I am talking about.
As for me I am use to the shortcut keys, so it doesn't really matter to me, but if the above helps someone else, I am all for it.
Just a thought,
Silk

rakker16mm
03-09-2008, 04:01 PM
Anybody that has ever used Bryce knows what I am talking about.

Silk

Actually, I can't tell if you are praising Bryce or criticizing it. I never liked setting up my scene in perspective view, and I still don't tend to work that way. I found switching between views in Bryce, was very often an adventure in itself. For me Bryce was always difficult to use because of the inflexibility of the interface. LW could spruce up a thing or two here and there, but then again so can I.

IMI
03-09-2008, 04:03 PM
What's the matter with simply creating a null and targeting the camera at it?
Then you just move the null and the camera points at it, or you move the camera and it still points at it. It's actually pretty easy to do and very quick to set up, and almost accomplishes that trackball sorta thing. can also parent the camera to a null and drag that around.
I use those ideas half the time when framing a shot. Otherwise, I have to get on board with everyone else here - hotkeys and mouse.

zapper1998
03-09-2008, 04:28 PM
when will the Voice Recognition start??
That would be cool, talk to the puter, rotate 30 degress on the heading..
get er done....ya

Silkrooster
03-09-2008, 04:35 PM
I wasn't really talking about how the cameras move in Bryce just that it had an option of snapping one camera to the other. My opinion of Bryce is mixed. I don't really like how the camera moves, but I like how the directors view moves. It allows you to rotate around a selected object with no nulls. In fact I always render from the directors view, never the cameras view.
Anyways, this was just an idea didn't really mean for this to go off topic.
Silk

Silkrooster
03-09-2008, 04:36 PM
when will the Voice Recognition start??
That would be cool, talk to the puter, rotate 30 degress on the heading..
get er done....ya
Now that I would love. The way my hands work, yeah I definately would love to tell the computer what to do, lol.
Silk

Verlon
03-09-2008, 04:59 PM
The thing is I'm not one for shortcuts - but that's just me I suppose.




Let me try explaining it another way.... you have learned a "bad habit." Now you have to UNLEARN it and RELEARN it right.

I absolutely LOATHE the camera system of which you speak because it is so freaking counter intuitive to me I get a headache trying to figure out why anyone ever thought it was a good idea.

From the camera view in lightwave, shift +C to select the camera (if on another object) and then t to translate or y to rotate. Easy as that. Then clack and drag to accomplish the move.

1000% workflow improvement isn't really an exaggeration.

Voice recognition? Nah.... you can learn to type faster than you can talk. Even I can, and I am an advanced "hunt & peck" typist.

pixelranger
03-09-2008, 05:03 PM
why settle for voice recognition when you could have mind control.. think "rot.. uh, yeah, that was it. Now mov... exactly, thanks. And a stretchy Ik spine locat... there, yes..." :D

But seriously, I totally understand how navigating through the camera is annoying when you have to move you mouse cursor across the screen for each operation. But having your index finger hovering over "t" and "y" doesn't slow you down and it doesn't force you to look away from the things you want to keep your eyes on.
Now, I do most of my camera navigation in maya nowadays and there you still have to use hotkeys to navigate/zoom (even though the camera and perspective view works the same way) so we can't complain. Actually this is something I've never ever thought about (mainly because I use the keyboard shortcuts).

tayotain2
03-09-2008, 05:29 PM
Also try to change coordinate system to local (on some cases it's easier).

pumeco
03-09-2008, 05:58 PM
Hey all, no prob's on the replies - I know you're trying to help :thumbsup:

Thanks for the tips and workarounds but it's just something I'm never going to like, no matter how hard I've tried. There was a lot of things I didn't like about LightWave when I first started using it, and yes, now I can see the logic behind most of those things and actually prefer them the way they are.

That's not so with the camera though, I'll never get used to it, only put-up with it. If they don't enable those camera buttons sooner or later, I'll continue to model in LightWave, but I think I'll go back to rendering in Bryce. At least in Bryce, I can position the camera with a mouse without having to switch between movement modes or use keyboard shortcuts - even if that does mean losing the power of LightWaves beautiful renderer.

If that's what it comes to (IE: dead camera navigation buttons in 9.5) then so be it because what's happening with those camera buttons in the current LightWave is absolutely ridiculous. I've honestly never seen something so mind-numbingly pointless in any 3D application in my entire life!

Anyway, modest as it may be, that's all I'm hoping for from the new release - fingers crossed.

Roly
03-09-2008, 06:24 PM
Reading this thread, I just thought of a compromise (or I think so anyways) If they would add a small script that would place the camera at the location of the perspective view and the reverse. This way you can move around the scene using ther perspective controls, then click a button to snap the camera to that location. The opposite would be nice as well, moving the perspective view around and then decide you want it the same as the camera location, which is great when your view is way out of range.
Anybody that has ever used Bryce knows what I am talking about.
As for me I am use to the shortcut keys, so it doesn't really matter to me, but if the above helps someone else, I am all for it.
Just a thought,
Silk


Plugin to match camera to perspective view. It works under 9.3.1.
I still use it some times, but I like the shortcuts better.Thanks to
Nitisara for this litle gem.

Maxx
03-09-2008, 06:56 PM
pumeco - Dude, I don't mean to be rude here, but honestly I don't think you're looking at it the right way. Consider this - and I know that your mind is made up and we're not going to be able to change it, but apparently I'm feeling a bit obstinate this evening - the camera is an object. Just like one you've modeled in Modeler. It is and always will be.

When you're in Modeler, there is no camera, there's a viewpoint. If you select an object in Layout, you can't move it around or rotate it with the viewport positioning/rotation buttons, you use Move/Rotate. Same thing. The camera is an object. The Perspective viewport is not.

hrgiger
03-09-2008, 07:11 PM
And just to have the official word on the viewport controls or lack thereof for the camera view, here's an excerpt from the Lightwave Layout docs:

Changing Your Point of View
With the View Control drag buttons located on the upper-right edge of a viewport, you can interactively alter the orthogonal and perspective POVs. The buttons are dimmed to indicate that they are not available when you use the Light or Camera views, where they have no effect since those are based on their respective itemís POV in the scene itself.

zardoz
03-09-2008, 07:19 PM
well...when you say 'the rest of the industry' I don't understand what you say because I use max, and I've played with maya and the way you use the camera is pretty much the same as lightwave...

about clicking on buttons, if you don't like hotkeys you can always use your mouse wheel to change mode...

pixelranger
03-09-2008, 09:44 PM
You're prepared to render in BRYCE over LightWave because you have to use the "t" and "y" key?!??? C'mon......

And I know these replies maybe seem abit heated but we know you take it the right way and appreciate our posts hehe :)

But seriosly, ok, if you absolutely don't want to use at least these two hot keys then fine, but please then, put up with finding the move and rotate button because lw will give you so much nicer renders than you will ever be able to get from Bryce. (Not trying to start an app vs app thread, just stating my subjective facts ;) )

UltraViolet
03-09-2008, 09:54 PM
I have a question guys...How to rotate camera in camera view around currently selected object ? Is that possible ? Thanks :)

hrgiger
03-09-2008, 10:15 PM
What you can do is place a null in or near the object, parent the camera to the null, and then rotate the null.

UltraViolet
03-09-2008, 11:00 PM
Thanks...

I was not really looking for that, I have scene with like 30 different items, so setting this for each of them would be pointless.

It is a very common technique in framing shots in real world (circling around object until you get right POV).

Looks like a little plug-in someone mentioned above will do the work.

Thanks again :)

Philippe2
03-10-2008, 06:07 AM
when will the Voice Recognition start??
That would be cool, talk to the puter, rotate 30 degress on the heading..
get er done....ya
And when will Lightwave support my SpaceNavigator again?
(there is a spaceball plug-in here
(http://www.tmproductions.com/ProductsHTML/Docs/Spaceball_Docs.html)
but it only works in Lightwave 7.5)

I am using the space navigator in Blender, and believe me, it's WAY faster! I can move and rotate simultaneously, it's almost as if i was controlling the camera with my thoughts...

stib
03-10-2008, 08:29 AM
Pumeco, as well as speeding up your workflow, learning keyboard shortcuts is good for your health - unnecessary mousing is bad ergonomics and puts you at risk of RSI etc. If you're considering doing 3D professionally this isn't a trivial matter, it can be debilitating.



Somebody made a script that checks how much you have used different tools and makes a log. then you can check what tools you use most and learn shortcuts for those. :thumbsup:
Any idea what that script was called? Sounds useful.

pumeco
03-10-2008, 10:50 AM
:dance: :beerchug: :D :beerchug: OMG :beerchug: :D :beerchug: :dance:

!!! IT WORKS !!!

The plugin that was posted is EXACTLY what I was talking about, I mean absolutely spot on.
I have to wonder if it's creator was as frustrated as I was, but whatever the reason, I'm REALLY glad they created it.
So yup, big-time thank's for that, really, you have no idea!

This means I can use LightWave exclusively now, which is what I wanted to do in the first place - love it!

There's only one thing I need now to perfect this, and that's to hide the Camera from the Perspective view as it's just in the way now, no more than a distraction really. I'm pretty sure this can be done but I've not bothered learning Layout that much in the past because of the camera. Of course, this will all change for the better now, but if anyone knows how to hide the camera, please tell.

Again, thank's to everyone, whether I agreed with you or not.
I think sometimes the way I word things makes me sound ignorant, but I tell you nothing could be further from the truth.

:lwicon:

bobakabob
03-10-2008, 12:34 PM
Funny I've used Lightwave for years and have always found positioning the camera in Lightwave fustratingly 'clunky' compared to say, XSI which has a fast intuitive trackball camera option allowing the camera to freely rotate around an object. You can get close to it as hrgiger suggests parenting a camera to a null but it's still not as fast or flexible.

In LW it's a delight navigating the scene in the Perspective viewport and I've often yearned to render compositions directly from this as you can in Max.

Btw, Pixelranger, you're so right about hotkeys. Some apps like ZBrush are almost impossible to use without them. Still, you can use LW pretty well without knowing them and the new Production config is the best LW interface ever for button pushers :)

Andrewstopheles
03-10-2008, 02:31 PM
re: voice control - when I read that post I was reminded of my days learning CAD in high school - you would enter two character text commands and it would go and do what you told it to - could be done in Lightwave, I think, with modern voice recognition software combined with custom shortcuts...

Steamthrower
03-10-2008, 02:44 PM
I personally am on pumeco's side here when it comes to all the keyboard shortcut things.

Both of my hands were horribly mutilated in a Crisco oven fire at the age of 17 and since then I have had to use my tongue to manipulate my mouse. Therefore keyboard shortcuts are useless for me.

pumeco
03-10-2008, 03:50 PM
Hey bobakabob, if you haven't already, do yourself a favour and download the plugin for god's sake :thumbsup:

It's what you're talking about; you literally use the trackball buttons in the top-right corner of the window in perspective mode as if it were the camera itself. You don't have to worry about where the camera will be (and never have to look through it), just hit render and you get exactly what the perspective view is showing.

This is exactly like using Bryce, Carrara, Cinema4D, etc, etc, etc...

It's a pity there's not a button next to the camera controls which automatically put's LightWave into this mode of use and hides the camera for you. It would certainly make things a lot better for those coming from the above mentioned app's, and indeed, I should think the vast majority of other app's as well.

Andrewstopheles, I got a SonyEricsson mobile with voice control and to be honest I think it'll be a while before it's any good. Not sure how well it would work with LightWave though.

inigo07, I hope you keep your mouse clean ;)

For me also, there's a good reason for not wanting to use shortcuts. It's because I'm lazy and like to slouch-back in my chair and use the mouse. Why should I have to keep sitting-up to the keyboard every few seconds or so? ...sod that for a lark!

zapper1998
03-10-2008, 04:07 PM
mind control and voice Recognition


that would be cool for LW 10

get er done, yaaa

Stooch
03-10-2008, 04:35 PM
The perspective view in modeler and camera view in Layout are entirely two different things. I'm not sure why the controls should be the same for both.

Besides, I want to move the camera directly as I'm looking through it (as it is now). not look through the camera and use outside controls like the viewport controls to move the camera. I just don't understand what you find so confounding about it. To each his own I guess.

he has a valid point he wants to use those widgets in camera view where now they are useless. no one is asking to change how you work you are still free to do what you want so why are you arguing with his request? just stick to what you like and leave this guy alone.

pumeco
03-10-2008, 08:14 PM
Hey Stooch, thank's for the support, it's great to know you can see what I had a problem with. That makes two of you when I bring bobakabob into the total :thumbsup:

Also, I just wanted to say there was no problem with hrgiger, he's just giving constructive advice and that's no bad thing. Maybe you took him the wrong way? I appreciate his feedback, and everyone elses 'cause let's face it, I'd still be cursing at the camera if I hadn't asked about it.

If anyone hasn't tried it yet, you should give that plugin a try. It's good to position the camera with the buttons and then get a render of what you have in front of you.


Cheers!

hrgiger
03-10-2008, 09:06 PM
There's no problem at all with the way you do things pumeco and I wasn't trying to imply such. I just come from a few different software packages and I understand wishing things were the way they were in the other packages because I personally found them more intuitive.
What I do think however is that sometimes you just have to push through that because Newtek may never implement the controls the way you would like them so if you choose to use Lightwave, it's just one of those things you have to get use to. As you said earlier, I've come to prefer the way things are in Lightwave like I didn't when I first started with it.

*Pete*
03-10-2008, 10:53 PM
and since then I have had to use my tongue to manipulate my mouse..

in Sweden and Norway, mouse is a nickname for womens..eh..mmm.........never mind.

id still like to see you play that quitar of yours that you have as an avatar..

dee
03-11-2008, 03:52 AM
There's only one thing I need now to perfect this, and that's to hide the Camera from the Perspective view as it's just in the way now, no more than a distraction really.

Open Scene Editor, then uncheck the dot in the eye column for the camera.

pumeco
03-11-2008, 04:56 AM
@hrgiger
Cheers mate, I know there wasn't a problem. I just thought I'd better point that out though after reading Stooch's post; I think he took your posts the wrong way.

@*Pete*
So what are the three cats in your avatar on the lookout for, MOUSE or just mouse?

@dee
Brilliant, off to do that now :thumbsup:

BeeVee
03-12-2008, 04:20 AM
You can hide the Camera when it's not the active object by using the Scene Editor by "unclicking" the dot in the Eye column. I have to reiterate what Zardoz said though. I don't use the t and y shortcuts either, finding them too slow, I just roll the mousewheel to switch between move, rotate (and size and scale for objects).

B

pumeco
03-12-2008, 07:38 AM
Cheers, Ben.

Same here, I used to use the mouse-wheel to switch modes as it was the better of the two - shortcuts being a definitive no for me. Thankfully those days are at an end thanks to this plugin. I've gone from hatin' it to lovin' it in no time at all. I'm enjoying Layout now, it feels normal to me.

BTW, I've not forgotten about that LightWave video I PM'd you about. The VHS machine works great, cleaned the heads etc, but was stopped in my tracks when I couldn't find the cable for transferring to the PC. I've got video input on a Digital Camcorder now though, so I intend to copy the video to digital that way. Once it's in digital form on the camcorder, I can transfer it to the PC through Firewire and get it uploaded to you.

Will do that some time this week hopefully.

GraphXs
03-12-2008, 07:53 AM
Not sure if anyone mention this, but in any view (including the camera view) you can "scroll" the mouse wheel to go between move and rotate. So if ya don't want to use "t" and "y" you don't have to.:thumbsup:

Kuzey
03-12-2008, 07:56 AM
Wıll LW 9.5 have a new super cool ıcon that someone here made....can't remember who ıt was :D

or wıll ıt be the same trıed lookıng one we have now :hey:

Kuzey

dwburman
03-12-2008, 09:03 AM
Making the buttons on the window control the camera won't be as simple as "enabling" them as they're designed to control the viewport not the items in the scene. They probably could be tied into it somehow.

It's frustrating moving from one app to another. I tried using Maya some and had a really difficult time trying to figure out the camera controls... of course, I've been using Lightwave a long time and I like the way it works. :)

I've known other people who don't like to use keyboard shortcuts... to me it just slows me down to have to hunt for a button or widget.

UltraViolet
03-12-2008, 05:12 PM
I do not think that this is an issue of keyboard shortcuts at all, I almost never use buttons, keyboard is my main "weapon" for speed. I'm doing all my modeling in Silo for some time now, and I'm very accustomed to "Alt" key being center of everything navigation.

I just wish that shortcuts from perspective mode in LW are available for the camera as well...:)

erikals
03-12-2008, 05:22 PM
Heh, Sweden too, didn't know...

Since shortcuts were mentioned I thought I'd post this link,
shuffle Rotate/Move only in Layout,
http://www.tmproductions.com/ProductsHTML/EditCycle.html

Another plugin, skipping the EdgesMode in Modeler when hitting the spacebar,
(never liked that edges mode, clicking 3 times at the spacebar is annoying)
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55148

stib
03-12-2008, 06:49 PM
early on I mapped points and polys to the z and x keys (ctrl-g is just way too hard) and spacebar to drop selection, when edges were added I mapped them to c. I find it much quicker than the standard layout.

Edges are really useful sometimes, get to know them, it's worth the initial learning curve.

erikals
03-12-2008, 07:31 PM
Agree bout edges, prefered to map them to the Alt-E shortcut instead though..

zardoz
03-13-2008, 03:34 AM
erikals, I took a while to get used to edges, but after you get used to them it's way better and faster to do some operations than with points.

bobakabob
03-13-2008, 05:21 PM
:dance: :beerchug: :D :beerchug: OMG :beerchug: :D :beerchug: :dance:

!!! IT WORKS !!!

The plugin that was posted is EXACTLY what I was talking about, I mean absolutely spot on.
I have to wonder if it's creator was as frustrated as I was, but whatever the reason, I'm REALLY glad they created it.
So yup, big-time thank's for that, really, you have no idea!

This means I can use LightWave exclusively now, which is what I wanted to do in the first place - love it!

There's only one thing I need now to perfect this, and that's to hide the Camera from the Perspective view as it's just in the way now, no more than a distraction really. I'm pretty sure this can be done but I've not bothered learning Layout that much in the past because of the camera. Of course, this will all change for the better now, but if anyone knows how to hide the camera, please tell.

Again, thank's to everyone, whether I agreed with you or not.
I think sometimes the way I word things makes me sound ignorant, but I tell you nothing could be further from the truth.

:lwicon:

Fantastic... I've waited years for this. This plugin really does enhance camera manipulation. Thanks Pumeco and Roly. Nitisara is a genius. Newtek please can we have this integrated into Lightwave?

Salv8or
03-14-2008, 02:48 AM
Hmm.. I made this little setup for anyone to have a go at.
Go to camera view and click the item shaped nulls for corresponding movement on the camera.
Just change the Coord System to Local when using the dolly function. (Shift+F7)

It makes navigation with the camera a litle easier.. you can ad control for dof and zoom aswell, or just beep and a can make a more advanced setup if someone would like.

Have fun.

Salv8or
03-14-2008, 03:13 AM
Noticed a litle bug while playing with it.
Remedy:

Download this scene, or change the heading stiffness on Cam_world to "0", and the pitch stiffness to about "10" in motion options panel.

pumeco
03-14-2008, 05:26 AM
Cheers, Salv8or. I've downloaded it and will have a play tonight. Sound's interesting whatever it is because you mention settings I've never even come across before. I kinda sounds as if it's a camera with damping or something!

Philbert
03-14-2008, 11:03 AM
I don't use the t and y shortcuts either, finding them too slow, I just roll the mousewheel to switch between move, rotate (and size and scale for objects).

I read through 50 some threads trying to figure out why nobody mentioned the mouse wheel. I don't think I've ever used T and Y, in the few times when I don't use the mouse wheel I use the space bar to toggle between move and rotate.