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View Full Version : 3 things that I WANT in 2.0



LittleSpig04
03-07-2008, 07:59 AM
1. We need WAY MORE Video effects than we have. We actually don't really have any usable ones other than defielding but any system should make slow motions and picture look smooth anyway.

I want to see glowing effects, old film, light rays, sepia that actually works and doesn't look orange and like over 100 more. Us wedding videographers want to add an effect to Speed Edit rather than make clips to bring into Vegas. Then have to render and bring back to VT. Why did I spend $10,000 for my system to then buy a $120 program that makes my $2000 videos look like $4000 ones. And it wastes my time using a whole other program.

Anyone agree???? I also think we shoud get a free 2.0 upgrade!

2. Slow motion that isn't buggy and flows better than previous versions.

3. I want the option to keep the audio on 1 and 2 tracks rathar than it falling onto each line below. This makes for a harder re-edit in the future. I see A/B row track editing and that doesn't fix it. Why do we want to search to line 450 for an audio track. It should be right under it's video!!!! BIG PROBLEM!

bbeanan
03-07-2008, 08:17 AM
Well on your #3 comment you can put your audio anywhere you want... for me haveing tracks 1 & 2 set as audio would do me no good as I often have 10+ tracks of audio which I arrange them around tracks 15 - 20.

#1 I agree...

#2 I agree...

as for a free upgrade I assume you are new to Newtek products... I would assume the next upgrade will be a free upgrade. Normally until they get things running smooth they hand out frre upgrades.

Jim_C
03-07-2008, 08:24 AM
I also think we shoud get a free 2.0 upgrade!


Why should we get a free 2.0 upgrade?

For what reason do you think Newtek should not make money? Is it because you didn't research the software enough before you bought it to see if it does everything you need?

If it works like the VT suite (and most software products) Point issues are paid and increments are free.

UnCommonGrafx
03-07-2008, 08:32 AM
Your requests are quite valid, particularly #1. I have to be honest, though, in that I believe what you've done is what you will be doing into the foreseeable future.

#3 is a no-no. It's just not part of the prevailing paradigm.

If we could get 1000 posts in support, we might have a chance. But I don't believe #1 is a priority for NT.

Matt
03-07-2008, 08:38 AM
#3 is a no-no. It's just not part of the prevailing paradigm.

Maybe a user option?

"Associate Audio with Video Tracks"

bbeanan
03-07-2008, 08:44 AM
Newtek should make money I'm just saying normally they will hand out a few free upgrades to fix issues (like the slow mo and a bunch of others) until they got it about 99% there. Then they will work on a MAJOR upgrade then release that as a paid upgrade (which if you look at VT being a $5k initial and then the upgrades costing $500.... One may assume a $500 initial SE, upgrade will be $50)

LittleSpig04
03-07-2008, 08:45 AM
I didn't know effects or DVE's are hard to add to a program. I heard there were more being added to Speed Edit but I couldn't get an answer as to which ones. SO I tried to do research.

When I bought my system in 2005, all I was told was it was THE BEST. I didn't realize at the time I needed something a lot simpler. It was my first editor purchase and thought I was getting THE BEST!

I only shoot weddings. That's it. Now I'm regreting the fact I paid $10,000 rather than $3500 for Final Cut. FC makes beautiful wedding videos. NT does very little for me. Finally realizing this after 3 years. MY FAULT!

UnCommonGrafx
03-07-2008, 08:57 AM
I fear, LittleSpig04, that this is a lament that has been shared by many. What they offer is good stuff but it's not as complete as many of the other packages out there. As well, your requests are requests that have been made even before 2k5.
Many of us have the $50, $125, and $3000 add ons that you speak of to get the job done for exactly this reason.

Having said that, I would say that if you are able to get what you need out of your present system, even if you are using other apps in the process, then do the work and earn money. THIS will be your fault: to earn money for future endeavors and investments. ;)

ScorpioProd
03-07-2008, 12:27 PM
No way would a full integer upgrade be free, that simply wouldn't happen, nor should it, nor has it in the past.

I wouldn't expect the next upgrade to be only $50, either.

As for your number one, well, there are a number of reasons why that can't happen at this point. The main reason is this isn't the SpeedEDIT paradigm. The SpeedEDIT paradigm and the VT-EDIT paradigm before it do NOT support effects tied to clips, and without that, really useful filters and such just will not happen. Bob Tasa made some good filters, but with the same limit of affecting EVERYTHING above them, well, they simply aren't as useful as clip level effects. I don't see you finding a set of filters in SpeedEDIT that can rival what you get with Vegas Pro 8 any time soon.

SpeedEDIT and VT-Edit were ALWAYS promoted with the flash of DVEs, not with filter effects. Canned DVEs are their forte.

As for your number two, slow motion. Well, frankly, I don't see how Newtek can claim that SpeedEDIT is marketed to wedding editors now without that feature. Granted, all editors need that ability, but especially wedding ones. Since we haven't gotten it yet and SpeedEDIT has been out as long as it has already, I'm not that optimistic of getting it soon. Realize, this is a feature that was promised from the beginning, in writing.

As for your number three, again, not in the SpeedEDIT/VT-EDIT paradigm. The paradigm is TRACKLESS editing, that's why you see them moving. There is NO SUCH THING as tracks in SpeedEDIT. This is needed for the storyboard/timeline duality, but causes the results you see.

One can always request and hope, though. You never know.

CreatvGnius
03-07-2008, 01:26 PM
I want the option to keep the audio on 1 and 2 tracks rathar than it falling onto each line below...

Your post, LittleSpig, seems to suggest you've looked for a remedy in PREFERENCES -- but have not succeeded at getting SpeedEDIT™ to place your audio wherever you wish.

That intrigues me. Have you stumbled upon a bug, or might something me awry with your install? While I'm at it, allow me to mention that you can unlink the audio from an A/V clip, then move the audio separately -- but you already know that, correct?
-PeterG

KSTAR
03-07-2008, 02:38 PM
2.0 a free upgrade? Are you kidding me? Lets get real folks its a full integer upgrade. the 2.x upgrades may be free if Newtek chooses

If Newtek based their business on free integer upgrades for their products,there would be no Newtek.

I just realized Eugene said this in an earlier post. So Im going on record as agreeing with Eugene

UnCommonGrafx
03-07-2008, 03:24 PM
Peter,
No, you aren't reading his post with understanding it seems.

He's saying he wants to be able to LOCK it to a space vertically on the timeline. That is to say, this little piggy only takes audio.

hehe, I thought that was cute. :D

It goes against the paradigm to quite a degree, both philosophically and technically. It would take some serious bowel fixin's to get SE to do it the way suggested. Or so it seems...


Your post, LittleSpig, seems to suggest you've looked for a remedy in PREFERENCES -- but have not succeeded at getting SpeedEDIT™ to place your audio wherever you wish.

That intrigues me. Have you stumbled upon a bug, or might something me awry with your install? While I'm at it, allow me to mention that you can unlink the audio from an A/V clip, then move the audio separately -- but you already know that, correct?
-PeterG

LittleSpig04
03-07-2008, 04:11 PM
Keeping in mind the video is on track 1, I'm looking to place one clip on the timeline and have the audio on line 2, then drag in another clip and have the audio on line 3, then the next on line 2 and so forth. I would like it to do that on its own without moving each piece of audio on those 2 "tracks" because it could move a little and be off sync. I'd rather not take that chance.

SO, if I need to re-edit the audio in a finished project, I have to find the video clip, scroll ALL THE WAY to the bottom making sure the cursor stays in that spot. Say I delete that piece of audio then need to move the audio before and after, I will again need to search for those two audio clips instead of seeing them all next to each other. Make sense?

ScorpioProd
03-07-2008, 04:31 PM
It certainly makes sense. It's just you're saying you need a track based NLE. Well, SpeedEDIT is NOT a track based NLE.

You may have a bone to pick with whoever told you that SpeedEDIT/VT was the best solution for your needs. :devil:

ted
03-07-2008, 09:47 PM
As Eugene said, some of the blame for your surprise falls on a crappy sales guy or friend that didn't listen to what you needed/wanted. Or you didn't ask enough questions.
The biggest blame falls on you.
When investing in any hardware or software, I first evaluate what I NEED, and what I WILL NEED in the near future.
I then do my homework, never relying on one or two guyís claims of what is "BEST".
I've been buying gear for 30 years and have rarely been unhappy with my decisions.

All my home work has resulted in finding VT and SpeedEDIT IS THE BEST for us. Sure, I have a list of what I would like to see added to VT-SE but I don't pretend to be a victim by not having what I want.

FWIW, NewTek added v1.2, 1.5 and 1.5.1 for free. When companies move to a complete version # you pay. Check any of Adobe's upgrades.
It cracks me up when people want all these changes for no more money. Or act like a feature in SE that's different then another company makes that functionallity wrong. I chose VT-SE BECAUSE it isn't exactly like other programs and in MANY ways it FAR BETTER then other programs.
There will always be loose ends in any software but NewTek isn't milking any one's bank account and usually goes way beyond what most companies will do.

If I'm reading you wrong I don't intend to sound harsh. It just sounds like you're trying to sound like a victim. But most everyone does now days.
Off my box. :D

UnCommonGrafx
03-08-2008, 05:04 AM
Gotta say it:
Well said, Ted.
Victim-hood is a growing business... Sad but true. ADHD is victim-hood for kids... but that's another soapbox moment...

mskuma
03-08-2008, 08:34 PM
Hopefully NT takes an approach like 'if you bought SE within the last x months, you get it for free or at a reduced amount'. This is also common in the industry (at least those companies who are slightly compassionate towards those who very recently bought into the product).

LittleSpig04
03-08-2008, 09:48 PM
Wasn't trying to sound like a victim, just posting the things I'd like to see in the future, that's it!

I do believe I should have been given more information as a first time buyer but it's a little late now. I'm not blaming anyone but it seems as though every time a new upgrade comes out, NT completely leaves out adding ANYTHING to DVEs and Video Effects.

ted
03-08-2008, 11:09 PM
Littlespig, I was hoping it was venting. We've all been there, myself as well, on various issues and often our words get read harsher then intended.

I flew to San Antonio and spent 3 days touring NewTek and ďinterrogatingĒ NewTek staff before buying into VT. I now own several NewTek products. As an independent I had to make sure the investment I was making was not only the right tool, but the right people building it. It/they were for me and itís been a great ride.
This level of homework might seem extreme, but it worked for me as I entered the next phase of my business.
But it ainít over, Iím still researching gear daily so when I make more purchases Iíll have a handle on whatís out there and the history behind it.
I can't stress enough, before buying anything, list what your needs are and look for the tool that best fits.
FWIW, I think SE 2.0 will smooth out the workflow for even more people. Iíll be at NAB to see what NewTek is saying as well as manufacturers of tripods, jibs, dollies, monitors, lighting, etc.


MSKUMA, I don't know too many companies that go back 6 months. Even apple only went back less than 30 days I think on the iPhone price drop. NewTek usually goes about 30 days back from my recollection. And what they often do is give a price incentive to upgrade early so everyone sees it coming.

ScorpioProd
03-09-2008, 12:03 AM
FWIW, I think SE 2.0 will smooth out the workflow for even more people. Iíll be at NAB to see what NewTek is saying as well as manufacturers of tripods, jibs, dollies, monitors, lighting, etc.

That's the same hope I have, that SE 2.0 will help a lot.

I'll also be at NAB for the same reasons... And hopefully to win at the craps table by playing when Ted does... :D

mskuma
03-09-2008, 12:06 AM
ted, well I'm only 1 month since I purchased, so personally I'm hopeful of a fair deal if there is an upgrade offered. Anyway it's all speculation - there's been no announcement of 2.0 as far as I know. Seems like NAB is a cool event, but let's not put that much expectation on NT because of NAB.. I mean I think 1.5.1. was only released in Jan right?

ScorpioProd
03-09-2008, 12:53 AM
I've got a date of December 1 on my SE 1.5.1, but really it was a bug fix to SE 1.5, which was out over a month before that.

In no way would I expect a shipping SE 2.0 at NAB, but I would expect an announcement of forthcoming features in it.

I would also expect Newtek to have announcements on their live side. As other companies have shown this year, there's no reason to be at NAB unless you have announcements to make.

ted
03-09-2008, 11:55 AM
I agree Eugene, I expect SE 2.0 to be "shown" at NAB and shipping a month or more later.
I gotta add a Jib and some other gear for our new lighter cameras so I'll be hitting the craps table pretty hard! :D

ScorpioProd
03-09-2008, 02:13 PM
I agree Eugene, I expect SE 2.0 to be "shown" at NAB and shipping a month or more later.
I would guess base on history "a lot" later, though.

Bobt
03-09-2008, 07:56 PM
>I gotta add a Jib and some other gear for our new
>lighter cameras so I'll be hitting the craps table pretty hard!
Can I just send you a couple of hundred in cash cause I need some new
gear too..
Bob

ted
03-09-2008, 10:22 PM
>Can I just send you a couple of hundred in cash cause I need some new
gear too.. Bob

To be totally honest, I admit it ain't that easy. The key is to play gently until you get a virgin roller on a streak and then you play it hard.
But if you want to stake me, I'll use your money to get warmed up! :D
4 new products by NAB? You da man!!! :thumbsup:

CreatvGnius
03-11-2008, 11:37 AM
...It would take some serious bowel fixin's to get SE to do it the way suggested...
Now that's some comical imagery, there, Robert.

Do note I appreciate your clarification of the poster's lament.
-PeterG

John Perkins
03-11-2008, 12:20 PM
I want to go on the record as agreeing with all the features LittleSpig suggested, including the audio tracks.

The audio track layout could be much smarter about the auto-layout than it currently is and still be a free form editor.

I am not promising any features here, just letting you know that we are paying attention.

Thanks,

ted
03-11-2008, 11:05 PM
I also think we shoud get a free 2.0 upgrade!

John, careful. This one could put you out of work! :D

John Perkins
03-11-2008, 11:10 PM
Heh, I was careful to say features ;)

ted
03-12-2008, 09:27 PM
:d

steveg
03-16-2008, 03:11 AM
I like having the audio for a clip right under the video that it came with. This makes Speed Edit muckh faster to work with especially because I have as many as 6 video layers going on at any one time. If I were just editing photos to music I put my music tracks at the top (lines 1 and 2) and pix under them. That takes only a sec to do. I am quite pleased that the audio and video stays together. I would feel very confined if they had to be on specific track lines.

ted
03-16-2008, 10:50 AM
Thanks Steve. I thought I was alone on this.
So many people that work for me and come from "other" systems say "I hate XYZ" about VT-SPEEDedit.
That is until they get over their auto-hate mode and use it a few times. Suddenly they tell me "I wish (insert other system) worked like VT-SPEEDedit".
I just sit back and grin. :D

Actual Clip Time Code window, better slo-mo and better QT support would make a major improvement in our daily workflow.
Come on NewTek, make my day! :thumbsup:

steveg
03-17-2008, 03:21 PM
i totally agree with Ted. I am amazed at other editing systems taking their limitations and flaws and turning them into features. A few years ago I was approached by Macintosh asking me why I wouldn't consider a Mac. I told them that the day she could prove to me that a Mac could edit a full 30fps Interlaced video at a full 60 fields per second that I would junk my VT. She reasured me that 24P is where television is at but she said she was certain that FCP would edit 30I. I said "prove it and I will buy it." She emailed me a bunch of bull 3 days later. Mac's design engineer said that the Mac puts out full 30 frame interlaced video or it would not play on a normal TV set. That the amount of pictures per sec. that are processed is irrevelivant. I wrote back "does the Mac actually play back a full 30 interlaced pipicture changes per second." And he replied that it can handle 25 which he says is adiquate because your eye can't see a difference. Again he triesto turn a flaw into a feature. I would love to sell my garbabe to some blind unsuspecting soul. Too bad people are so easily taken in by clever con artists. Oops! I didn't mean to talk about the election and politicians.

CreatvGnius
03-17-2008, 07:06 PM
i totally agree with Ted. I am amazed at other editing systems taking their limitations and flaws and turning them into features...Again he tries to turn a flaw into a feature. I would love to sell my garbabe to some blind unsuspecting soul. Too bad people are so easily taken in by clever con artists. Oops! I didn't mean to talk about the election and politicians.
Sad thing is, SteveG -- these politicians aren't clever at all: instead, the general populace is utterly lulled into believing what they hear, because they utterly refuse to think for themselves ( I seriously doubt that many even know *how*). Just my unsolicited two cents.

I like your take on the subject of Mac garbage-speak. Very intriguing. :)
-PeterG

ScorpioProd
03-17-2008, 07:50 PM
Well, MOST NLEs out there have no intention or desire to be able to support true 60i in real-time, that's not their paradigm.

SpeedEDIT and EDIUS being the only two software-only NLEs that do believe in this paradigm.

It all becomes a question to the user of what is most important to you, true real-time playback, or more features.

Cause that is and always will be the trade-off.

CreatvGnius
03-17-2008, 07:56 PM
Well, MOST NLEs out there have no intention or desire to be able to support true 60i in real-time, that's not their paradigm.

SpeedEDIT and EDIUS being the only two software-only NLEs that do believe in this paradigm.

It all becomes a question to the user of what is most important to you, true real-time playback, or more features.

Cause that is and always will be the trade-off. Well put, Eugene.
-PeterG

Liber777
03-19-2008, 11:43 AM
...if you look at VT being a $5k initial and then the upgrades costing $500....

Until VT[5]

Now the software-only upgrade is $1500, and the upgrade including the non-HD Pro card that uses an outdated bus is $2500.

ScorpioProd
03-19-2008, 03:47 PM
Then again, check out what you can do with Bob's XtraChannels and Bob's Sixth Channel with the old VT card and even VT[4] 4.6c software...

And then check out how much it costs. :hey:

Liber777
03-20-2008, 09:23 AM
...check out what you can do with Bob's XtraChannels and Bob's Sixth Channel ...then check out how much it costs.

Where can we go to check this out? I can't find anything with regard to XtraChannel on Bob's site.

Thanks,
Stivan

Bobt
03-21-2008, 05:19 AM
Did I read XtraChannel.
I am so sorry. There was discussion about this on the VT forums a while
ago and I have been very busy getting ready for NAB and had NO time for
website updates even for a new product.
You can see some of it in action here.

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79524

Bob

Verlon
03-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Until VT[5]

Now the software-only upgrade is $1500, and the upgrade including the non-HD Pro card that uses an outdated bus is $2500.

That non-HD part really hurts more than the rest of it.

incubate
04-06-2008, 04:53 AM
From my experience all NLE companies offer the world but generally slip up in an area. Ultimately though, after working on a number of them I can honestly say that speed edit does more of what it says it will than the others. Has anyone tried doing HDV on Adobe CS3? Trust me you don't want to attempt it, quality problems, sync issues, 20 min load up times, crashes and the list goes on. Avid still don't support 720p 25fps and this is an issue that has been going on for years. Ultimately slo mo would be fantastic as well as the ability to render out to a 10bit YUV file that AE can read and vic a versa.