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View Full Version : Rigging and CA with this object



Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 03:42 PM
http://picasaweb.google.com/sugarengine/SoccerTests/photo#5172164827739703218

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 03:48 PM
Well that's special.

Off the FAQ I guess...

kopperdrake
02-28-2008, 03:53 PM
What happened there?

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 03:53 PM
http://www.vancouveronly.com/screen_capture.jpg

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 04:03 PM
***** this 5 minute edit limit is infuriating. I just lost a whole bunch of stuff I wrote.

I bought this model and it came in many bits. I copied all the bits into one layer.

The basic setup I started with produced some nasty pinching I will try to fix with stabilizer bones and/or weight maps. I will try to learn both methods.

My question is before I get too far into it, is it broken model wise from the start? Would you try to pose/animate this guy?

Should I just bite the bullet and make something new from scratch...

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Jamie

geothefaust
02-28-2008, 04:13 PM
Well, it is hard to tell what's going on with just wireframes. But I'm guessing that the modeling is pieced out according to bodyparts/clothing? A little more information would really help us help you. (And yeah, I hate the 5 minute edit time limits too, it sucks.)

pixelranger
02-28-2008, 04:13 PM
The first thing I would do was run mergeTrigonsX on it to untriple all the triangles. That will help tremendously on the deformations.
Here are both 32 and 64 bit version of this sweet little plugin.

http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75307&page=2

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 04:24 PM
Well, it is hard to tell what's going on with just wireframes. But I'm guessing that the modeling is pieced out according to bodyparts/clothing? A little more information would really help us help you. (And yeah, I hate the 5 minute edit time limits too, it sucks.)

That is exactly right. The separate layers were all body parts/clothes.

I am just curious if there is any inherent problem moving forward with an object like this vs. a boxy thing that is sub patched and originally one piece.

I will spend the next two weeks going through both Albee's and Shultz's stuff and I am just wondering before I start if there is a difference in running into problems with the model vs. problems with my own stupidity at learning rigging.

:)

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 04:25 PM
The first thing I would do was run mergeTrigonsX on it to untriple all the triangles. That will help tremendously on the deformations.
Here are both 32 and 64 bit version of this sweet little plugin.

http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75307&page=2


Cool I will try it out.

So working with triangles is not necessarily good? I was under the opposite impression! This is the kind of info I was looking for!

Thanks!
Jamie

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 04:30 PM
The haunting concern I have is, is there a difference between separate objects copied into one layer and a single piece object that is subdivided.

Would that/could that introduce problems?

ericsmith
02-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Yes and no. (mostly no)

Technically, bones just move vertices. It doesn't matter how or if they are connected, each point is treated as an independant entity.

But you might find that based on where different meshes are connected, in conjunction with how the bone falloff influences things, that some "parts" may seperate from others, where if they were connected, they would just stretch.

The first step is to create some bones, either in modeler through skelegons or directly in layout, and start playing around to see how it deforms.

I will say that from the looks of it, it's a frozen mesh, which will always cause more difficulties with deformation then a SubD character.

Eric

adamredwoods
02-28-2008, 04:56 PM
Aren't SubD's just tripled polygons?

I think the trick would be that you can control when the poly's are tripled (setting deformation order to LAST). Which makes for better bone deformation control.

SplineGod
02-28-2008, 07:05 PM
Modeling is definately part of rigging. A lower rez object that uses quads will be faster to update and give better deformations with bones if you use subpatches. This model is fairly dense and will be harder to control. It will also be somewhat slow and any vmaps added to it will make it slower.
Polys can only bend at edges so how it flows and where the edges are located will effect how well it bends around the joints etc.
You might take a look at a free application called Makehuman which will generate any type of human character for free.
http://www.dedalo-3d.com/

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 09:34 PM
Thanks everyone.

LS, I bought your Rigging DVD from Kurv and will start that next week.

I will check out Makhuman asap!

Thanks!
Jamie

SplineGod
02-28-2008, 09:45 PM
Thanks Jamie :)
Dont forget to use the support forums over on KURV.
http://www.kurvstudios.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=187

Stooch
02-28-2008, 10:31 PM
that is an atrocious model for animation. it needs extensive polygon reduction and joint optimization. subds not only speed up the interaction but greatly enhance the behavior and folding of joints, you couldnt have picked a worse polyflow to work with and i see a long road ahead of you in terms of cleaunp. i would definitelly untriple it and use the poly reduction tools in modeler in order to get a lightweight mesh, perhaps 1/5 of the polycount in its base mesh layer.

Giacomo99
02-28-2008, 10:46 PM
Yeah, I don't want to seem too dismal, but Stooch is right. Trying to get clean deformations with that thing is going to put you in a world of misery.

If it were me I'd either resculpt the model from scratch using SubPatches, or take an existing SubPatched human figure and bash it into something you can swap in for your present model--before you start rigging. Good luck.

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 11:28 PM
Hmmm the more I read, the more I suspected this was the case.

I will have a go at it anyway just to see what happens. But with this in mind I at least stand to learn something rather than just be frustrated.

I am a ways off making my own model. I will give make human a try but I don't think people will like naked soccer players.... lol

Thanks everyone!
Jamie

ercaxus
02-29-2008, 12:13 AM
Doesn't Albee's book have a cd with the model he uses in his tutorials?

dwburman
02-29-2008, 08:51 AM
You can always put this model in a background layer to use as a guide when you get around to building your own. That way you'd have the shape you want with tho poly flow you need. :D

Speedmonk42
02-29-2008, 11:52 AM
Doesn't Albee's book have a cd with the model he uses in his tutorials?


I have essential 9 and LS Rigging DVD.

I don't have v9 of Albee's book yet.

SplineGod
02-29-2008, 03:44 PM
Ive also taken dense meshes, pick a few points and create splines then repatch at a lower resolution.

cresshead
02-29-2008, 05:00 PM
yeah re-topology on that would be a good option either rebuild polys or spline patch as splinegod said!

Sarford
02-29-2008, 05:09 PM
Don't forget your polygon flow when resculpting, otherwise you'd still have bad deformations.

Speedmonk42
03-01-2008, 11:51 AM
Thanks for all the info everybody.

Very helpful.

Hopefully I will post some stuff in a few weeks.

Thanks again!
Jamie