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animotion
02-27-2008, 09:45 PM
To chuck and all at NT, I formally Apologize on behalf of everyone here in the community for any unappreciative comments that have been made concerning 9.5 (this includes you too, Too bad if you don't want me to, I will do it anyway).

Great job with this FREE point release. I will be glad glad to get my hands on it during production of our series. I think we all want good things for LW. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

loki74
02-27-2008, 10:31 PM
I agree that there may have been some unfair judgments leveled against what has been shown of 9.5. I've only skimmed the thread.

However, I did pick up enough having only skimmed it to tell you that starting such a thread feels to me very very puerile. The sense I get is that this is no more an earnest apology to NT as it is a under-handed provocation to whoever it is you are disagreeing with in the other thread.

Thus, even if I agree with some of your sentiments, I cannot agree with how you have chosen to voice them.

animotion
02-27-2008, 11:05 PM
Put your own twist if you like. my original genuine post stands as I stated.
I am not speaking of any single individual, just the general negative comments. So get it right dude!.

jin choung
02-27-2008, 11:28 PM
yes... wise move in appropriating everyone's speech and opinion.... that won't be controversial.... sigh.

ok, in the same spirit then and to celebrate the ridiculousness of your post:

"by the power of greyskull and in the name of all newtek forum members but ESPECIALLY ANIMOTION, we express our collective and unanimous - especially animotion's - displeasure with not only current and future upgrades by newtek but, volkswagon beetles (all years), the notion of "speed metal" and everything that has ever been brought into existence in general."

now here's the part where you create a post to counter my post and then i create a post to counter counter your post... and the last one gets to speak for everybody. ok?

jin

animotion
02-27-2008, 11:31 PM
Hi Jin, YOU DA MAN!

MikeUnderwood
02-27-2008, 11:33 PM
yes... wise move in appropriating everyone's speech and opinion.... that won't be controversial.... sigh.

ok, in the same spirit then and to celebrate the ridiculousness of your post:

"by the power of greyskull and in the name of all newtek forum members but ESPECIALLY ANIMOTION, we express our collective and unanimous - especially animotion's - displeasure with not only current and future upgrades by newtek but, volkswagon beetles (all years), the notion of "speed metal" and everything that has ever been brought into existence in general."

now here's the part where you create a post to counter my post and then i create a post to counter counter your post... and the last one gets to speak for everybody. ok?

jin


Here's the part where I offer you a tissue...

jin choung
02-27-2008, 11:40 PM
oooo... clever! <clap> <clap> <clap> hope you didn't hurt yourself newbie....

jin

geothefaust
02-27-2008, 11:44 PM
Man, things are sure heated on the forums as of late...

loki74
02-27-2008, 11:47 PM
Put your own twist if you like. my original genuine post stands as I stated.

Haha oookay. x]

I likewise did nothing more than state my opinion (and I'd not be so presumptuous as to call it the collective opinion of all viewers of this thread) about your post...



I am not speaking of any single individual

Hmm...


(this includes you too, Too bad if you don't want me to, I will do it anyway).

(emphasis mine)

Although the pronoun "you" serves both plural and singular functions, from context I believe it's a fair statement that in this case it is being used in the singular. If that isn't the case, I suggest (in a friendly and constructive manner, of course) that you word your posts more clearly.



@Jin: Chill out, man. There's room for other opinions here.... <_< ;;

animotion
02-27-2008, 11:54 PM
Thanks for the clarification.

Good work NT.:thumbsup:

jin choung
02-28-2008, 12:22 AM
@Jin: Chill out, man. There's room for other opinions here.... <_< ;;

i am plenty chill. and all opinions are indeed welcome.

but - as ridiculous a notion as it is in the first place - i will not have anyone attempt to speak for me.

it needed to be ridiculed. i ridiculed.

jin

loki74
02-28-2008, 12:25 AM
it needed to be ridiculed.


*head -> desk*


x_x

Darth Mole
02-28-2008, 02:06 AM
And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords...

JCG
02-28-2008, 03:24 AM
Grave of the Fireflies has an 89% in Rotten Tomatoes because two experienced, professional movie critics consider it to be a rotten movie. That's a rating of 50% or less. Casablanca has one such rating also. The Incredibles has 7. Schindler's list has 2. Those are only the approved Rotten Tomatoes critics. In an open (even to competitors) world-wide forum, the number of haters would be much higher. How many millions love heavy metal and hate Mozart; how many millions love classical music and hate Iron Maiden?

No matter what you do, no matter how good it is, there will be lots of people who will hate it. It is normal that there will be many people who will hate the 9.5 early previews and will hate the final release too.

The nice thing is that there are now enthusiastic fans again, making positive posts of how much they love the progress. This is pretty much how the forum looked when I first met it. In the last couple of years there was a very passive acceptance of negative posts as the norm.


However, I know how I would feel if my boss asked me to write a report and I spent days working all night to make the best report ever and all he said was, "Why did you put in charts and borders on the tables? You could have added two more pages of numbers in the time it took you to do that." I mean, he doesn't have to thank me; he pays me to work there and he's free to like numbers.

But motivation does play a role in (many) people's lives and performance. In that sense, it is about gratitude. It is about how displaying gratitude when the developers unveil the first glimpses of their hard work (and look for our first reactions) will affect their motivation and future performance. Praises mixed 50/50 with criticisms are not encouraging or exciting. They don't make everyone jump out of bed full of energy the next morning to start another tortuous block of the rewrite. We don't know the developers or how sensitive they are.

It's not about ignoring shortcomings or always saying that everything is always rosy. It's about timing and location.

People who do not believe (or care) that (if) encouraging posts will affect the developers' motivation in any way, can, of course, criticize and express that they did not get the features they wanted as loudly as they wish.

We should, however, understand those who want to make the forum look as positive as they can, even if they go a little overboard. Even though the word choice in the OP might not have been the best, I think we can make this thread a place where we can offer a personal apology, as part of the community, because the reaction of the community that we belong to may not feel (in general) like it fully appreciates the effort (and skill) that went into this (pre-pre)release.

I think many of us are hoping that, since the release of 9.0, the developers have been working 40% of their time in 9.x and 60% on 10. So most of our gamble when buying 9 was funding the future. These guys re-wrote the radiosity engine in one point release and the entire lighting system in another: they can get a job anywhere they want. I'm loving what I'm seeing. I want them to stay.

pooby
02-28-2008, 03:44 AM
I made a smell

mav3rick
02-28-2008, 03:45 AM
i forgive u

Thomas M.
02-28-2008, 04:04 AM
Oh, nice. Another fan boy thread! I already feel the temperature is rising ...

mav3rick
02-28-2008, 04:36 AM
lol

Wonderpup
02-28-2008, 04:57 AM
Some of these wounds are self inflicted- if you are going to present a new feature like hair, then why not have some really impressive images ready to show it off? To say that no one involved knows how to use it properly yet does not inspire confidence- how was it tested?


So most of our gamble when buying 9 was funding the future.

yes but which future? Your position seems to be that you will give NT your money and then they choose what to give you in return. As it happens they have been very generous and given a hell of a lot, but, seriosly, would you buy a computer this way- just give the store your money and they decide how to spec it?

It's not viable. This whole notion of development via path of least resistance means that features seem to pop up at random- I need to have some confidence that if I buy into a projected future version that it will not mutate out of all recognition by the time it arrives.

animotion
02-28-2008, 07:42 AM
Keep up the good work NT. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Also, I am a man so don't call me a boy. That is a very derogatory term even if it doesn't apply to me.

beverins
02-28-2008, 08:05 AM
While I may be hugely down on Newtek's marketing of Lightwave, I have to say that their upgrades - when they Do announce something - are ALWAYS awesome.

Newtek's the little engine that could, I just hope that they can keep it going and remain selling viable products. With 9.5 they show they are ready for another 20 rounds with the Autodesks of this world. Play it smart and never lose your nimbleness.

Also never, ever forget to address the needs of your plugin developers. Worley pretty much saved Lightwave until 9.3 (which had the must-have photoreal motionblur), I think you guys need to show him some due deference somehow. Not to mention Dstorm with LiquidPack and Cantarcan's Dynamite... as well as Happy Digital's stuff which is also pretty much indispensable. LWCAD as well, though you did have a bundle deal - what happened to that?

Doesn't have to be money - linking to their websites off your page would be more than enough.

*Pete*
02-28-2008, 08:46 AM
Grave of the Fireflies has an 89% in Rotten Tomatoes because two experienced, professional movie critics consider it to be a rotten movie. That's a rating of 50% or less. Casablanca has one such rating also. The Incredibles has 7. Schindler's list has 2. Those are only the approved Rotten Tomatoes critics. In an open (even to competitors) world-wide forum, the number of haters would be much higher. How many millions love heavy metal and hate Mozart; how many millions love classical music and hate Iron Maiden?

No matter what you do, no matter how good it is, there will be lots of people who will hate it. It is normal that there will be many people who will hate the 9.5 early previews and will hate the final release too.

The nice thing is that there are now enthusiastic fans again, making positive posts of how much they love the progress. This is pretty much how the forum looked when I first met it. In the last couple of years there was a very passive acceptance of negative posts as the norm.


However, I know how I would feel if my boss asked me to write a report and I spent days working all night to make the best report ever and all he said was, "Why did you put in charts and borders on the tables? You could have added two more pages of numbers in the time it took you to do that." I mean, he doesn't have to thank me; he pays me to work there and he's free to like numbers.

But motivation does play a role in (many) people's lives and performance. In that sense, it is about gratitude. It is about how displaying gratitude when the developers unveil the first glimpses of their hard work (and look for our first reactions) will affect their motivation and future performance. Praises mixed 50/50 with criticisms are not encouraging or exciting. They don't make everyone jump out of bed full of energy the next morning to start another tortuous block of the rewrite. We don't know the developers or how sensitive they are.

It's not about ignoring shortcomings or always saying that everything is always rosy. It's about timing and location.

People who do not believe (or care) that (if) encouraging posts will affect the developers' motivation in any way, can, of course, criticize and express that they did not get the features they wanted as loudly as they wish.

We should, however, understand those who want to make the forum look as positive as they can, even if they go a little overboard. Even though the word choice in the OP might not have been the best, I think we can make this thread a place where we can offer a personal apology, as part of the community, because the reaction of the community that we belong to may not feel (in general) like it fully appreciates the effort (and skill) that went into this (pre-pre)release.

I think many of us are hoping that, since the release of 9.0, the developers have been working 40% of their time in 9.x and 60% on 10. So most of our gamble when buying 9 was funding the future. These guys re-wrote the radiosity engine in one point release and the entire lighting system in another: they can get a job anywhere they want. I'm loving what I'm seeing. I want them to stay.

this post is perfect!!...its almost making me to print it out and put it into a frame and hang it on the wall in the livingroom.

very well said...i agree with every single word.

*Pete*
02-28-2008, 08:53 AM
Some of these wounds are self inflicted- if you are going to present a new feature like hair, then why not have some really impressive images ready to show it off? To say that no one involved knows how to use it properly yet does not inspire confidence- how was it tested?

we dont know for how long they actually had the hair feature available for testing, and my quess is that the whole idea of showing lw 9.5 pictures came very suddenly after prospector started to post images done in 9.5.
after all...the thread dissapeared a few times before it finally came back to stay...i quess NT had some heated discussions and panic decisions over the images posted on the public forums.

that they werent prepared is to me obvious...all in all, its a good choise to present images done with 9.5, but judging over the negativity that it created among some people...i quess the same mistake wont happen with 9.6.

JeffrySG
02-28-2008, 09:08 AM
I made a smell
whow...... yes you did! :lol:

geothefaust
02-28-2008, 09:44 AM
JCG, great post. I couldn't agree more.

For the most of the thread, however, it's pretty disappointing. All these very negative threads that have not a single constructive bit of information.

Why can't we just keep it civil here? It's a public forum for crying out loud. Got a legitimate gripe or something great to say? Fine post it. Got a complaint that's been irking you about how something functions, or how you love how 'x' fuction is the best? Post it! Got a personal problem with another poster? How about taking it to PM?

I think these things are pretty standard forum etiquette. Threads like this, make me wish for a flood of porn spammers instead.

EDIT: Can we get this thread locked?

OOZZEE
02-28-2008, 09:55 AM
I made a smell

is that why your nickname is POO BY __________ ?

heehee, couldnt help it.... :lol:

by the way pooby, my kids LOVE the potato message.

Darth Mole
02-28-2008, 10:06 AM
The thing that bemuses me, is that the Hair system is a third-party plug-in - presumably with a few tweaks but one that was grabbed off the shelf, ready made. So why are people bemoaning the lack of new features (usually very specific to their own needs) and blaming all the work that's taken place on HairFX. As far as I can tell, NT has expended very little energy on this feature: picked up the phone and sent a cheque maybe?

CAClark
02-28-2008, 10:23 AM
No one is apologising on my behalf.

I have a free mind and free will to speak as i see fit.


To chuck and all at NT, I formally Apologize on behalf of everyone here in the community for any unappreciative comments that have been made concerning 9.5 (this includes you too, Too bad if you don't want me to, I will do it anyway).

Great job with this FREE point release. I will be glad glad to get my hands on it during production of our series. I think we all want good things for LW. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

geothefaust
02-28-2008, 10:29 AM
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own."

Thought this was fitting for this thread.

animotion
02-28-2008, 02:15 PM
OK, All but Jin and CAClark.

adamredwoods
02-28-2008, 02:30 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

wyattharris
02-28-2008, 03:14 PM
"by the power of greyskull and in the name of all newtek forum members but ESPECIALLY ANIMOTION, we express our collective and unanimous - especially animotion's - displeasure with not only current and future upgrades by newtek but, volkswagon beetles (all years), the notion of "speed metal" and everything that has ever been brought into existence in general."

And it was at that precise moment that he remembered
An ancient Eskimo legend
Wherein it is written
On whatever it is that they write it on up there...

-So says Frank.

Dodgy
02-28-2008, 03:26 PM
LOL


Nooooo, I'm one of those people! Arrghhhh my life has been rendered futile and invalid by a cartoon! Must burn the cartoonist! <oops got a bit political there!>