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02-26-2008, 10:04 PM
6 hours of texture work down the drain!!!!

what the hell is up with 9.3.1 dumping textures?!!!!

Save surface preset does nothing in the UB version as far as I can tell.
I can't double click the sample in the surface editor to add a surface preset to the presets panel to reapply when this happens like I could in the PPC version.

I religiously "save all objects" and do multiple saves and I open up the scene to find all of the textures I spent hours perfecting just plain gone.

Is this some know bug? If it is, it's kind of a deal breaker.

Can someone guide me on how to take steps so this doesn't keep happening?
I can't continue like this.

02-26-2008, 10:18 PM
phew.. I am using lightwave on my PC's ONLY these days.. I gave up on the mac LW version, way too many issues.

Hopefully some day it will run just like on PC (like C4D does)

02-27-2008, 01:35 AM
Try running without the hub. See if it helps - if you have Layout and Modeler open, I think there is some scenario where the hub ends up nuking your hard work. I dislike the hub, so run without it. Even under Windows....it's just too unreliable.

02-27-2008, 08:24 AM
I threw the hub out on day one.

02-27-2008, 02:45 PM
whats going on?

I know you are losing textures. what I don't see in this thread is HOW it is happening.
I see that you have developed Solid texture preserving habits, and that there are several Bugs in LW's texturing... (btw... double clicking NEVER worked, EVER, on the mac... and I have no difficulty saving presets.)

but I have no idea what happened that you lost all that work. What steps, that you took, caused this behavior?

Believe me, I have been there, and some times it came down to operator error in some Crazy, backwards workaround which SHOULD have been unnecessary, and sometimes it was an honest to goodness BUG(anyway i can't make that type more bold, and ten times bigger?), absolutely NOT my Fault.

let me tell you the worst one. I had a deadline of end-of-day, I needed to make a quick change to a scene I had been working on for 3 days. I had backups, but none of them in the last 3 hours or so, where I had redone all the principle animation. I was religiously saving this particular scene. Lightwave has been crashing every 5 minutes, no joke. I push through it, in order to get to render overnight, and just as I am about to hit the render button, I decide to do one last save, just in case. I save all objects, then save the scene file.

Lightwave crashes during the save. My scene file is there, its completely empty. I just gave up at that point. didn't even have enough energy to vent my spleen on the forums in some crazy, incomprehensible posting.

Lightwave has a very poorly designed saving algorithm (PC AND MAC). first it creates the data to save, then it erases the contents of the original file, then it writes the data to the file. if LW crashes during a save, you're screwed. Sometimes, Saving often == bad.

02-27-2008, 03:03 PM
I'm on pc and 9.3.1, the last and only time I can remember LW crashed during a save - a .bak file was left in the scenes dir. When I tried to load the old .lws (which was corrupt) I was asked if I wanted to load the backup.

02-27-2008, 03:30 PM
I religiously "save all objects" and do multiple saves and I open up the scene to find all of the textures I spent hours perfecting just plain gone.

I feel your pain--in fact, I immediately checked the last job I was working on to make sure that "Save All Objects" had been working (fortunately, it was.) I have, however, had to contend with the annoying inability to save Surface Presets.

Regarding a solution: You could do your texturing in Modeler and update without using the Hub by using "Replace" to swap in each updated version. It's a headache, I know. Also, use Incremental Save as much as possible. If you're going six hours without checking to make sure everything's saving correctly, though, you might need to rethink your work style.

02-27-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm on pc and 9.3.1, the last and only time I can remember LW crashed during a save - a .bak file was left in the scenes dir. When I tried to load the old .lws (which was corrupt) I was asked if I wanted to load the backup.

theres never been a .bak file on my system. my scene file wasn't corrupt, it was empty. zero K. gone, as if it was opened in a text editor, the contents selected, deleted and then saved. Corruption is different.

I get that sometimes too.

Lightwave, sometimes, gets into a frantic session of crashes. it will crash with such regularity that I check the box to see if Crashing every five minutes, is a major feature. It will do this for a few days, out of the blue. Nothing in the system will have been changed, and when Lightwave suddenly goes "back to normal" nothing will have been changed then either. Deleting preferences, restarting the app, the computer, these things have no effect. Ina situation like that... Lightwave will crash so frequently that it will inevitably crash during a save, because when the crash frequency goes up, so does your save frequency. I think Hard8 is experiencing this phenomenon.

03-24-2008, 11:30 AM
After working in a string of different production companies (Cincinnati, Chicago, Silicon Valley) I've seen that most of those companies for various reasons "churn" their software constantly. By this I mean the Managers tend to authorize continual upgrading of applications to the most current version available. It takes courage and experience to resist this urge, since the assumption is normally that the newest version will have the best features and greatest power. All too frequently the reality is that the newest are the buggiest.

Sometimes it's best to stick for a while with a combination of software and hardware that you've de-bugged and worked with enough to have some fluency. When I worked at Atari Games in the early-to-mid 1990's (i.e., before the coin-op arcade group was finally sold off and dismantled) the most successful production teams --- Primal Rage, California Speed, San Francisco Rush, etc. --- stuck to a policy of refraining from software upgrades in mid-production. I was rigging and animating human figures with WaveFront Dynamation (which has become Maya) running on Silicon Graphics workstations. A team of 7 of us had spent a week together at Wavefront getting 8 hours of training per day, and when we got back to Milpitas, we then spent the next SIX WEEKS drilling and practicing with the software 10 to 14 hours per day before we got to the point where it wasn't blowing up in our faces every half hour. And these were animators with a lot of computer experience...

I was asked to evaluate and trouble-shoot the minor upgrades (apps & O/S) as they came in, and found that each new upgrade seemed to create more problems than it solved. If we had simply gone ahead and upgraded for the entire team without testing, we would have shredded our files and set back our project at least a couple of weeks each time. By checking, and in several cases eschewing the upgrade until the bugs were eliminated, we avoided those landmines.

03-25-2008, 06:30 AM
heh. wavefront didn't "become maya". it became half of the foundation of Maya. I was an alias Power animator user at about the same time. Both PA and wavefront were gutted, and something new was created from the atomic parts of both of them. which is a good thing because they were both slow, and GUI nightmares (especially Wavefront).

I do not upgrade my software, mid-project. but times have changed haven't they? My projects which would have taken a team of people months to do years ago, now takes me weeks, days. Just me. so upgrading isn't quite an onerous issue. UIs for the most part are standardized. Even Lightwave doesn't take weeks of reTraining from one upgrade to the next. Also the Assertion you seem to be making is that new software tends to be more buggy. Were that the case, I would be overjoyed.
in 3d software, it seems that every version is equally as buggy. And that the devil you know is just as bad as the devil you do not know.

having said that, I am unwilling to sit in the muck so-to-speak. I have no intention of living with bugs that i know just because I am concerned about New and improved bugs. The only way things get fixed is by doing work, and end users are a part of that.

03-25-2008, 06:41 AM
first it creates the data to save, then it erases the contents of the original file, then it writes the data to the file.
That used to be... it changed during the 9.x cycle (I can't remember qhich version though).


03-28-2008, 12:44 PM
umm... maybe at 9.5 but they hadn't fixed it in the latest 9.3 build. (or... lets be politic here... they hadn't "completely" fixed it). but thanks for the heads up. its nice to know that the basics are Now on the radar.

03-28-2008, 01:32 PM
Hi Eblu,

Somewhere between 9.3 and 9.3.1 (it was in one of those), we introduced a backup file during saves, and I *think* it was because you had requested it. I wasn't aware we'd done that until I went poking around in the code awhile ago. But it really should be fixed in 9.3.1. If it's not, that's a bug.


03-28-2008, 02:16 PM
thnx chilton,
I'm Pretty certain that we have seen at least one user in this forum under 9.3 who lost all of his data due to a crash during a save. I'd love to be wrong tho.

03-28-2008, 02:27 PM
Well, if it turns out this is happening in 9.3.1, I need to investigate it.

Thank you!

03-28-2008, 09:19 PM
Just a thought but dont people use Incremental save during a work session. ?

I have been in software development and we used to worry about losing a source file during a save , so established a strict, load one file , save under a new name at once , then repeat that at regular intervals . Save Incremental accomplishes that automatically .