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View Full Version : Show us 9.5 CA improvements..



metahumanity
02-24-2008, 05:03 AM
..please ;-)

IK and bones.:D :devil:

Dirk
02-24-2008, 05:06 AM
... and let us know if the goodies work together with IK Booster....

geothefaust
02-25-2008, 08:04 PM
It confuses me why nothing has been shown all weekend on the new bone type, or other stuff. Unless of course the closed beta testers are under NDA?

Oh well, another week and we're there too. :)

j__
02-25-2008, 08:48 PM
The hair examples posted here look not that great really and I don't mean to be a party pooper, and I will certainly stand to be corrected, but I think people have possibly got the wrong end of the stick on the joint stuff. I can't help wondering if all that will be is a yellow circle graphic at the head of the bone, as a display option. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it won't deform anything differently, and that a number of people seem to think it will, or it could, or it should, may suggest that some of the problems with Lightwave are really not too well understood by everyone.

Some sort of bendy bone thing maybe, but if NewTek really have tried to create some 'new' bone type to take LW spiraling off into yet another direction then they are yet again, missing the point dramatically, or doing everything they can to avoid it and you could just end up with another Sock Monkey variation.

If anyone is not familiar with Maya or XSI or whatever and want to see how it 'should be' done, download Blender if you haven't already.

Blender is years ahead of Lightwave on many of the real fundamentals of character work.

Dodgy
02-25-2008, 09:20 PM
So you really don't want to be a party pooper eh? I read that and thought fair enough, but then you go on and on about how NT has no idea how to do anything and you haven't even seen the features you moan about yet either so how can you comment? No one's been vaguely speculative about joints, everyone wants to see just what they are.
I think the hair looks gorgeous in the pics where they've gone for quality, but they've also gone for situations where they are just trying it with other LW components. So far it's help up with refraction/reflection, thick strands, thin strands, fur, radiosity. The only place it might have fallen down is the strands being too parallel, but the rug seems to show you can do messy with it too.

Dodgy
02-25-2008, 09:28 PM
http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54941&d=1203587108

fusion2007
02-26-2008, 05:03 AM
Dodgy:Thanks for your plugin"MGInverseBridge"! This is very useful for creating floors in buildings!!

bobakabob
02-26-2008, 05:24 AM
Agree with Dodgy. It's amazing how patient Newtek are with posts like this.

colkai
02-26-2008, 05:32 AM
Likewise, I wonder how they keep the drive to move forward.
I sheepishly admit I've done a bit of pleading about modeller, but in no way would I want to detract from the amazing working on the rendering / lights side of LW.

Maxx
02-26-2008, 05:36 AM
It confuses me why nothing has been shown all weekend on the new bone type, or other stuff. Unless of course the closed beta testers are under NDA?

Oh well, another week and we're there too. :)
I believe one of the secretive mammals in the huge long 9.5 hair thread said that CA improvements are, in fact, still under NDA and it's not possible to show them just now. I'd dig through to make sure I'm correct, but that'd take me all day just to find the post, and I'm pretty sure that's what I read.

Maxx
02-26-2008, 05:45 AM
Damn 5 minute edit rule....

OK - didn't take all that long to find the post I was thinking of, although I am a bit off on my memory or who said what and when. Anyway, here's what I remembered -

Again I just wondered how the new CA tools work. Are they stable? Anyone. Please, I'm desperate!! I'm on the verge of selling my soul to Chuck.

The testers cannot comment on certain aspects of the software. What's been disclosed is pretty much what they are allowed to disclose, as I understand matters.

Darn! Oh well.

I thought it was SecretSquirrel or HiddenHalibut or InvisibleIguana that made the post, but it certainly seems from comments and images posted that Phil's got a pretty direct line somewhere into the closed beta process.

Just to clarify.

Darth Mole
02-26-2008, 06:02 AM
As a matter of interest, if anyone didn't believe 9.5's hair and fur was Fiber Factory IV, the link to the tutorial video is now being hosted at NT's ftp site.

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/movies/ff/FiberFactory.mov

The main page (http://www.binaryartsinc.com/) is 'Closed For Maintenance', but you can look at all the other examples here:

http://www.binaryartsinc.com/FiberFactoryIV.htm

Some of the examples aren't that great - the guy is a programmer, not an artist - but some of them are pretty good, and it really does show the potential of this plug-in. And now it's built right into LW's pipeline, I hope that with a few future tweaks (based on LW user's feedback) this will become a fantastic addition to LW's armoury.

vadermanchild
02-26-2008, 07:10 AM
I think the hair looks gorgeous in the pics where they've gone for quality, .

Some people are pretty sure the fur looks rather bad - quite a number of people state this - I havent seen one well put together image or one where I think MAN ID REALLY LIKE SOME FUR LIKE THAT IN ONE OF MY PROJECTS.

Im hoping Newteks other improved areas deliver. The fur is getting people excited - great for them, I wish I could get so worked up - but theres plenty people underwhelmed - Newtek should share more info on other areas like speed improvements (modeler is shockingly slow) and how CORE functions have been updated - A dodgy fur plugin is the last thing LW needs.

Since 9.0 was released I heard very little desire for this type of additional functionality - people were crying out for the basics to work.

Maxx
02-26-2008, 09:04 AM
...A dodgy fur plugin...
Seeing as how you're replying to Dodgy's post ... that made me chuckle. :D That's all. Move along folks, nothing to see here...

Steamthrower
02-26-2008, 09:07 AM
theres plenty people underwhelmed
Really? Really? We're seeing pre-beta bug testing screenshots, and still nobody except the forum party pooper pessimists have been "underwhelmed".

-EsHrA-
02-26-2008, 09:53 AM
than i guess that would make me a party pooper pessimist.

i appreciate the coders hard work but i fail to see nt's logic.


mlon

WCameron
02-26-2008, 11:14 AM
As a matter of interest, if anyone didn't believe 9.5's hair and fur was Fiber Factory IV, the link to the tutorial video is now being hosted at NT's ftp site.

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/movies/ff/FiberFactory.mov



thats an old video William did for FF4 last year....


- Will.

vadermanchild
02-26-2008, 11:18 AM
Theres a lot of pessimists about it seems. And not the normally downbeat people like my good self. 8D

j__
02-26-2008, 12:56 PM
So you really don't want to be a party pooper eh? I read that and thought fair enough, but then you go on and on about how NT has no idea how to do anything and you haven't even seen the features you moan about yet either so how can you comment? No one's been vaguely speculative about joints, everyone wants to see just what they are.
I think the hair looks gorgeous in the pics where they've gone for quality, but they've also gone for situations where they are just trying it with other LW components. So far it's help up with refraction/reflection, thick strands, thin strands, fur, radiosity. The only place it might have fallen down is the strands being too parallel, but the rug seems to show you can do messy with it too.

Ok fair enough, sure I don't mean to be negative, and if people are pleased with this stuff then that's cool, and I look forward to having a game with these new things myself.

But I'm genuinely curious that a number of people are quite interested in the concept of some sort of 'new' bone, when there's really not a whole lot wrong with the 'old' bones as such, and this isn't the problem.

"but then you go on and on about how NT has no idea how to do anything"

I think NewTek know exactly what they are doing with their renderer, I think NT know exactly what they are doing with Modeler, and with nodes and so on. I don't think NewTek have a clue how to deal with the gap between Layout and Modeler. I think they did have something of a clue sometime around 8, and announced as such, but I think something went wrong, and I get the impression that there was an effort to push this off the table again and carrying on papering over this as if it didn't exist as an issue.

The way I see it the real crux of many of challenges LW faces is getting some kind of vertex level and vmap control into Layout, really at any cost now, even if it's not perfect, and a lot, not all, but a lot of technical problems people have with this or that in LW will just dissolve away as if they never existed, and as well this will just tremendously open up Lightwave itself in a way we've never seen before.

But I guess in time we will see, I do look forward to seeing what these new things bring to LW in 9.5, but at the same time I hope all users can keep their eye on the big targets as well, and yes, quite frankly give NT a hard time about them.

geothefaust
02-26-2008, 01:02 PM
I believe one of the secretive mammals in the huge long 9.5 hair thread said that CA improvements are, in fact, still under NDA and it's not possible to show them just now. I'd dig through to make sure I'm correct, but that'd take me all day just to find the post, and I'm pretty sure that's what I read.

Thanks Maxx, much obliged.

Targeted at the naysayers. I personally think the hair looks good, when people attempt to make it look good. As many of the testers have stated, they weren't shooting for quality with nearly all of the images created. It seems people have forgotten this, and that it's still in beta. Don't let your panties bind up so much, and have some patience. :tsktsk:

Chuck
02-26-2008, 01:51 PM
Just to clarify a point that seems to be causing some frustration - we've given permission for some folks to post some renders, but we've not given permission for folks to post screenshots, workflow videos, or answer questions beyond some very basic aspects about the renders they are showing. For all those other details of v9.5 such as the character tools, etc., you'll just need to wait for a while yet.

Silkrooster
02-26-2008, 02:07 PM
Fair enough. I think everyone is getting so excited on this point release. Keep up the excellent work Newtek and Beta team. And thanks.
Silk

Wonderpup
02-26-2008, 04:15 PM
I personally think the hair looks good, when people attempt to make it look good. As many of the testers have stated, they weren't shooting for quality with nearly all of the images created. It seems people have forgotten this, and that it's still in beta. Don't let your panties bind up so much, and have some patience.


Part of the problem is that you have a lot of artists hanging around the forum, (ungrateful types) and if you show an artist an image he's going to judge it in terms of visual quality, it's a mindset that's hard to shake off- so showing people stuff that looks a bit poor is going to provoke a negative response.

Now, if this were a coders forum the response may have been a lot more positive, as they could appreciate the more technical aspects of what's been done.

But you can't really show a forum full of visual artists a bunch of pictures and say 'hey guys, don't be so damned literal- this ain't what it really looks like.'

Surely some nice images were produced during development that could be shown- otherwise how does anyone know it works?

adamredwoods
02-26-2008, 04:26 PM
Veterans of Lightwave realize that the hair and fur solution will not produce miracles, but will probably require a little elbow grease to get the final image to look right.

Just being able to do a little more internally while working with Lightwave will be enough of a bonus.

jin choung
02-26-2008, 06:08 PM
Surely some nice images were produced during development that could be shown- otherwise how does anyone know it works?

see that's the essence of it right there for me.

why start out this whole process with half baked tests when surely, there must be grade-A stuff that proves what it can do?

first impressions count. why is that simple notion lost? seriously.

and why this piece-meal staggered revocation of the nda....? ick. sigh.

jin

DogBoy
02-26-2008, 06:28 PM
and why this piece-meal staggered revocation of the nda....? ick. sigh.

jin

Because people were excited, and the excitement was infectious.

tischbein3
02-26-2008, 07:15 PM
oh man... I can't believe it:

relax,
enjoy the informations (trying to to judge the feature quality by the released images is imho a waste of time), and most important:
renember the "build null" video.

colkai
02-27-2008, 02:24 AM
i think i agree with vander. hair is cool and its a nice addition but i would really love to see workflow improved
....

sorry I guess each has their own priorities.

Yup, therein lies the conundrum for Newtek, you truly cannot please all of the people all of the time. ;)
Alas, I am one of those who remains 'unaffected' by the changes so far so I share some of the frustrations of others.
Still, improved renderer means more speed which has to be good news for everyone, even if they aren't "pushing" LW.

jin choung
02-27-2008, 02:28 AM
Because people were excited, and the excitement was infectious.

then let the infection spread and the victim (nda) succumb already.

jin

Lottmedia
02-27-2008, 12:33 PM
I think it's just our nature. I've tried desperately not to get too excited about the release yet (the 9.3 wait was a troubling time in the Lott house:oye: ) I love that NT is letting us have a peek down the pipe and see what's coming. Cudos to them :)

Until they impliment the button that magically transports Dodgy into the room to fix my stupid modeling mistakes, I'll be content waiting for the official release and watch the fur fly (especially if anyone figures out who the mystery mammals are)

Casey :cat: