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Exception
02-22-2008, 02:19 PM
Nice educational animation for the masses... a bit on the simple side, but hey, you want to address the public :)..

http://www.storyofstuff.com/index.html

Sarford
02-22-2008, 03:45 PM
yeah, propaganda is what its called.

RTSchramm
02-22-2008, 09:49 PM
Almost every sentence of the narrator is either a direct lie or half-truth; for example, the percentage of our gross national product that goes to military spending is 6.9 percent, NOT 50%, as of 2007.

I could go on an on, but I hope anyone who has any sense of intelligence could see through the narrator's bull.

The only truth in the narrator's story is that the worlds resources are limited, and we create trash, and corporations do exploit developing countries for resources.

BUT, the US forestry plants as many trees as whose that are cut down; its a recycling process that has been working very well for over a 100 years.

China is the largest consumer nation in the world, not the USA.

I like the narrator, as she is a excellent speaker, but she needs to get ALL her facts straight.

Rich

DiedonD
02-23-2008, 02:48 AM
Well Im green. I liked it all. But, not giving suggestions as to what exactly to do to tackle the phenomenon might be kinda interpreted from some that they themselves dont know what to do about it.

And shes talking about US. But all industrialized countries are so.

Me... I shop only until I absolutely need it, and theres no compensation about it.

ericsmith
02-24-2008, 09:56 AM
Almost every sentence of the narrator is either a direct lie or half-truth; for example, the percentage of our gross national product that goes to military spending is 6.9 percent, NOT 50%, as of 2007.

I believe she said half of our TAXES go to military, not half of our GNP.

But in general, I agree that the real truth lies somewhere moderately in the middle of the two extremes.

I have to admit, though, that sometimes I imagine what life would be like if we lived like the Native Americans did before the anglos arrived. There's a contrast there as well, because weather could be a major problem, but from what I hear, the chumash Indians that lived in southern and Central California had very comfortable lives.

When I think about it, I wonder if they even had a notion of the concept of "work". They simply gathered food and made clothing and shelter. It might have been the same mindset that I have when I go shopping.

The real irony is that our society is constantly advancing technology with the hope of making these fundimental tasks (procuring food, clothing and shelter) easier, but the trade off is that the easier we make this component of our lives, the more we have to work to be able to afford it.

Not that I'm advocating anything, though. I just like to ponder this stuff.

Eric

RTSchramm
02-26-2008, 10:42 AM
Your right, she said taxes, but its still not 50% its more like 27 cents of every tax dollar.

Rich

gjjackson
02-26-2008, 05:49 PM
What hit me like a rock. The government's job is to "take care" of us. Only if you want a "Nanny State". This was the biggest bunch of Liberal, Socialist crap I've heard in quite a while. It's obvious these types just can't stand Capitalism.

Speedmonk42
02-26-2008, 10:30 PM
Your right, she said taxes, but its still not 50% its more like 27 cents of every tax dollar.

Rich

And that is comforting?

Speedmonk42
02-26-2008, 10:33 PM
What hit me like a rock. The government's job is to "take care" of us. Only if you want a "Nanny State". This was the biggest bunch of Liberal, Socialist crap I've heard in quite a while. It's obvious these types just can't stand Capitalism.

And you do want a nanny state. You just want someone else to pay for it.

calilifestyle
02-26-2008, 10:49 PM
Dude when i 1st read some of you guys comments i was thinking, naw you'll a bunch of scum as NEOCONS... but as i watched the video she go to the part where she talked about breast milk. lol omg these guys are insane. this video is way to slanted. i rather just go watch Zero Punctuation . lol how about the part where she talks about who payed for it. you know what, i give up i'm just going to go ask my grandma.....

jin choung
02-26-2008, 10:53 PM
The real irony is that our society is constantly advancing technology with the hope of making these fundimental tasks (procuring food, clothing and shelter) easier, but the trade off is that the easier we make this component of our lives, the more we have to work to be able to afford it.


probably a bell curve though. it reaches a peak, tapers off, then starts declining... to the point where you're doing much less work than hunter gatherers.

also, our technology gets us quite a bit more than our fundamentals... the system enables us to have things that would be unimaginable any other way.

but the point about LABOR is an interesting one. civilization is almost a history of labor.

slavery
serfdom and caste/class systems
working class
immigrant/migrant laborers
outsourced labor
robots

interesting

jin

gjjackson
02-26-2008, 11:57 PM
And you do want a nanny state. You just want someone else to pay for it.

How did you come up with That. The government shouldn't be doing half of what it's involved in. All the social programs fly in the face of the constitution.

gjjackson
02-27-2008, 12:02 AM
Dude when i 1st read some of you guys comments i was thinking, naw you'll a bunch of scum as NEOCONS..

I wonder how many realize that term NeoCons was invented in referring to Jews.

jin choung
02-27-2008, 12:35 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon

jin

pauland
02-27-2008, 01:21 AM
Whatever you think about the accuracy of the message, it's a master-class in communication.

Paul

jin choung
02-27-2008, 01:47 AM
All the social programs fly in the face of the constitution.

but evidently slavery was right up its alley.

jin

ericsmith
02-27-2008, 08:45 AM
but the point about LABOR is an interesting one. civilization is almost a history of labor.

slavery
serfdom and caste/class systems
working class
immigrant/migrant laborers
outsourced labor
robots

interesting

And when the robots become powerful enough, they'll take over and enslave us humans, making the circle complete.

But seriously, you're right about technology giving us things that a simple hunter/gatherer existance could never imagine.

Additionally, I think that the rise in technology is an inevitable evolutionary process. In our constant struggle against death, we develop new ways to stay alive longer. This increases population, which necessitates developing new ways to sustain a larger population with the same amount of natural resources.

Another way to look at it is this: Let's guess that in 14th - 15th centuries, the population of Native Americans in the area now known as southern California was a couple of thousand. I could be way off base, but that number actually sounds realistic to me. If that were the case, there would be a lot more readily available food and other resources for them to easily obtain. But in present day, we're now in the millions. There's no way that a population this size could survive by just gathering wild plants and animals. Nature can't come close to sustaining the production necessary. So ultimately, the technology that enabled us to grow our population to this size is now vital to keeping us alive.

And as I write this, it makes me wonder if my tongue-in-cheek comment about robots taking over is really that far from the truth...

Eric

Andyjaggy
02-27-2008, 08:48 AM
Anyone who still believes that the US is a completely free country is living in a dream.

pauland
02-27-2008, 09:01 AM
Anyone who still believes that the US is a completely free country is living in a dream.

There's no such thing as a free country - there's rules everywhere.

It seems to me that overconsumption is inevitable while the world population just increases..

Steamthrower
02-27-2008, 09:19 AM
Anyone who still believes that the US is a completely free country is living in a dream.

I agree. Currently we may be in one of the free-est nations in the world, but that doesn't mean it's Summer Wonderland. Folks who refer to America as the paragon of virtue and freedom are getting a bit delusional.

Andyjaggy
02-27-2008, 09:41 AM
I wonder what the original founders of this country would think if they saw it now....... I still wouldn't choose to live anywhere else but I think it's important to have a realistic view of the present situation.

borkus
02-27-2008, 07:41 PM
movies such as this also serve a purpose that wasn't intended by the creator directly. after watching it, i started to do a little digging just to see how slanted the view of the narrator was. so, in doing so, they have served another purpose altogether. because we can all agree that the news we are fed by the mainstream outlets are slanted as well. it's only when you can take many sources and blend them together to get a bigger picture. and then you are still left with making the right choices in that perspective. i remember watching movies like "zeitgeist" and "the inconvenient truth". both were also very heavy handed and slanted movies. but the reason i liked "zietgiest" for what it was is that it made the very distinct and up front statement saying that this movie was not to be taken to heart. it was meant to be a starting point of seeking out info. instead of eating what you are handed at 6 pm and not thinking any otherwise. the problems that were mentioned in the original movie posted get shadowed by the delivery of the facts. but the problems mentioned still have to be tackled at some point.

jin choung
02-27-2008, 11:07 PM
I wonder what the original founders of this country would think if they saw it now....

probably "where are all the slaves" and "chicks can vote?!"

i know you kinda just said this in an off-hand matter but it always disturbs me a bit when people on tv appeal to founding fathers and such....

founding fathers were not only fallible, they were dead wrong on a great many issues.

but their saving grace, their prized heritage is that they created a document that doesn't celebrate man's mythical nobility but acknowledges their flaws, shortcomings and wrong and provided mechanisms to counter it.

ammendments.

checks and balances (make no mistake, this is basically an expression of "i trust you as far as i can throw you" - a mandate to keep any "king" from raising its ugly head by putting everyone in a mexican stand off - see, america and the resolution of the cold war proves that MAD - mutually assured destruction - really really works!).

their greatness is in realizing how messed up they (and indeed we) really are.

jin

Exception
02-28-2008, 01:16 AM
What hit me like a rock. The government's job is to "take care" of us.

Umm, she put it in simple terms, but what do you think a government is for?

It's for regulating the rules and laws of a society so it can be optimal for all. That can easily be said to be taking care of us. Calling this "a nanny state" is just picking an extreme. And as opposed to what "a bully-in-the-playground state"?

jin choung
02-28-2008, 01:19 AM
oops... i meant to say "off-hand manner"... all matter was fully on hand.

jin

Exception
02-28-2008, 01:24 AM
Well, Ben Franklin said that if there would ever be a time when there were only two major parties, the constitution should be disbanded...

Sounds like wisdom to me! :)

archijam
02-28-2008, 03:46 AM
What hit me like a rock. The government's job is to "take care" of us. Only if you want a "Nanny State". This was the biggest bunch of Liberal, Socialist crap I've heard in quite a while. It's obvious these types just can't stand Capitalism.

I didn't particularly like the movie either, but of all her comments this one was the least misleading.

The Government should:
Manage (take care of) the economy.
Manage (take care of) national security.
... national debt.
... employment/unemployment levels.
... national disasters.
... etc etc etc.
For whom? Us. Of which they are the elected representatives.

While it also has some problems, Jarrad Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel (final 2 chapters) have some interesting points on this subject, or 'what' a government is ..

j.