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Dodgy
02-26-2008, 07:00 PM
So those arrows are an example of FFX dynamics? It has its own dynamics system? As weepul says, I wasn't really clear on where FFX was in use. Were the bubbles HVs on a FFX dynamic string?

prospector
02-26-2008, 07:13 PM
It has its own dynamics system?
Hmmmm

Were the bubbles HVs on a FFX dynamic string?
On a FFX hair strand.

Philbert
02-26-2008, 08:05 PM
When did it become official that the 9.5 hair is Fiber Factory? All I saw was the FF4 video that I've already seen on their website. I couldn't watch the last couple videos that were shown, Media Player just gave me an error.

geothefaust
02-26-2008, 08:26 PM
I have yet to see anything that mentioned this officially.

Philbert
02-26-2008, 08:50 PM
Oh never mind I can see videos, I just had to extract them first instead of just clicking them in IZarc. Pretty cool stuff!

RedBull
02-26-2008, 10:15 PM
When did it become official that the 9.5 hair is Fiber Factory? All I saw was the FF4 video that I've already seen on their website. I couldn't watch the last couple videos that were shown, Media Player just gave me an error.

It's sad this wasn't disclosed by either Binaryarts or Newtek, as many people could of spent the $300 (and still may) on an obsolete plugin that serves no use for LW9.x users. As it's still available from the BA website. Fairly crappy IMO. I guess this answers the FPrime question, as well as meaning that Viper is about 1000x too slow to work with FFX.

meatycheesyboy
02-26-2008, 10:37 PM
Please excuse me if this question has been asked already. Chuck showed a screenshot that showed multiple properties windows open at one time; will the change that allows this to happen allow things like extra openable viewport windows or things like that? Obviously this question won't be answered until someone gets a look at the SDK (or until a dev chimes in) but anyone want to speculate?

wacom
02-26-2008, 10:59 PM
Is it FF4?!?

Judging from the site for FF4 I'd say this is a welcome addition. It looks as good as anything I've seen out of mr, which isn't to say that mr is the best (far from it) but it is good for many/most things.

Funny things is I haven't seen anything here that looks quite as good as in FF4, but maybe that just is the difference between new users/beta testers and the gallery on the BA site.

OK...not to sound like a skipping record here- but unless LW 9.5 has deep shadow maps it's going to render WAY too slow for extended animations in many instances. There is just no contest when it comes to the ratio of speed vs. quality you'd get with using deep shadow maps on hair. Still, the addition is more than welcome- and given how piss poor saslite was/is/always will be this is a million and one times better!

ENTER RANT MODE

On a side note I think it's funny all of the people asking if you can make grass with it- I'd say there is no reason you couldn't. If you can't then there is something really wrong with either you, or the program. Grass is easy peasy with most "hair" solutions. Even saslite comes close to making grass... Please some one doing beta make some grass so they'll stop posting about grass.

I could care less about FPrime too- too many people stuck to that thing like a kitten to a momma kitties nipple. I bet your requests sometimes hold NewTek back- for fear of breaking the holy of holys "FPRIME". I love it too...but maybe it's time to move away from it for a bit...learn to live without it like 90% of the other CG community who still manages to turn out a good render. I'd rather see NewTek ditch Viper and make their own solid render region- even with a fourth of Fprimes speed. Heck Viper ain't so bad really...

Raytrace'n freaks!

jasonwestmas
02-26-2008, 11:06 PM
Is it FF4?!?

Judging from the site for FF4 I'd say this is a welcome addition. It looks as good as anything I've seen out of mr, which isn't to say that mr is the best (far from it) but it is good for many/most things.

Funny things is I haven't seen anything here that looks quite as good as in FF4, but maybe that just is the difference between new users/beta testers and the gallery on the BA site.

OK...not to sound like a skipping record here- but unless LW 9.5 has deep shadow maps it's going to render WAY too slow for extended animations in many instances. There is just no contest when it comes to the ratio of speed vs. quality you'd get with using deep shadow maps on hair. Still, the addition is more than welcome- and given how piss poor saslite was/is/always will be this is a million and one times better!

ENTER RANT MODE

On a side note I think it's funny all of the people asking if you can make grass with it- I'd say there is no reason you couldn't. If you can't then there is something really wrong with either you, or the program. Grass is easy peasy with most "hair" solutions. Even saslite comes close to making grass... Please some one doing beta make some grass so they'll stop posting about grass.

I could care less about FPrime too- too many people stuck to that thing like a kitten to a momma kitties nipple. I bet your requests sometimes hold NewTek back- for fear of breaking the holy of holys "FPRIME". I love it too...but maybe it's time to move away from it for a bit...learn to live without it like 90% of the other CG community who still manages to turn out a good render. I'd rather see NewTek ditch Viper and make their own solid render region- even with a fourth of Fprimes speed. Heck Viper ain't so bad really...

Raytrace'n freaks!

If I have to press F9 every time I want to see how my poly chains are looking (Assuming we still need poly chains for long hair) I want modeling tools inside of layout so I can edit the wig without having to bounce back and forth between modeler and layout. Something has to give in this instance I would think. Some would say that is too much to ask I suppose. Then again software is amazing in itself. . . whatever. . .long hair should be more intuitive by now.

wacom
02-26-2008, 11:15 PM
If I have to press F9 every time I want to see how my poly chains are looking (Assuming we still need poly chains for long hair) I want modeling tools inside of layout so I can edit the wig without having to bounce back and forth between modeler and layout. Something has to give in this instance I would think. Some would say that is too much to ask I suppose. Then again software is amazing in itself. . . whatever. . .long hair should be more intuitive by now.

I was thinking the same thing while watching the video for FF. If that wasn't reason #110 to integrate the two then I don't know what is. All we have to do is wait for them to retire in 10 years and we'll have it!!!...

RedBull
02-26-2008, 11:17 PM
If I have to press F9 every time I want to see how my poly chains are looking (Assuming we still need poly chains for long hair) I want modeling tools inside of layout so I can edit the wig without having to bounce back and forth between modeler and layout. Something has to give in this instance I would think. Some would say that is too much to ask I suppose. Then again software is amazing in itself. . . whatever. . .long hair should be more intuitive by now.


Spot on! Hair is nice, but nicer would be adding some Modeler to Layout, so any hair plugin that was implemented could be edited and adjusted in Layout without the need of switching, which more and more is the reason it's just easier to do in XSI, Modo, C4D or other unified programs....

Styling and Editing for FF4 is okay, but honestly a much more modern implementation is required, C4D being the leader at ease of use and styling tools IMO.

wavemaster
02-26-2008, 11:54 PM
IMHO... workflow needs to be addressed in all aspects of modeler and layout. The fact that they keep on adding all these new features without a addressing the underlying workflow issues just puts them further behind with every update! Hope I am wrong but it seems not...

jin choung
02-27-2008, 12:03 AM
IMHO... workflow needs to be addressed in all aspects of modeler and layout. The fact that they keep on adding all these new features without a addressing the underlying workflow issues just puts them further behind with every update! Hope I am wrong but it seems not...

yeah.

jin

Dodgy
02-27-2008, 12:03 AM
Taking that it is FF4 as it seems to be:

I've had experience with FF4 a while back. It was pretty speedy as was, which given that it did shadowing, reflections and refractions as well, meant it was pretty impressive. The quality I have seen both on its website and my own experiments can be varied between gorgeous and fast, gorgeous obviously being slower, but a reasonable quality can be achieved with a reasonable time.

The way it models means you can not just get hair guides out which you can use with Sas, but you can also get polygons out, like quad poly strips, or tubes/cones conforming to the guides, thus you can do poly grass easily. Also, you can use guides to grow more guides. Thus you can start with just a few guides, sculpt them, then use them to create more guides, which you can adjust to grow more guides and thus refine over and over.

jin choung
02-27-2008, 12:06 AM
ummm.... so the binary arts website is "down for maintenance"....

better late than never eh? man if this IS fiber factory and i purchased ff4, i would be... a bit more unpleasant than usual. luckily for everyone, i didn't.

anyhoo, and again, IF this is fiber factory, here's a video that was up a while back but may have more immediate interest to yas....

ftp://ftp.newtek.com/multimedia/movies/ff/FiberFactory.mov

pretty good lookin' but distinct lack of shadows in the example render... hope they have larger "combing brushes" too.... also seems like older 'guide hair' 2pt poly techniques will be applicable.

IF....

jin

Dodgy
02-27-2008, 12:12 AM
IMHO... workflow needs to be addressed in all aspects of modeler and layout. The fact that they keep on adding all these new features without a addressing the underlying workflow issues just puts them further behind with every update! Hope I am wrong but it seems not...

The problem is that getting to the underlying problems needs a lot of work, it's not easy to just slap modeler into layout, as they obviously found themselves, which is why presumably that part has taken the longest to sort out. That's why modeler has also taken a backseat til now. There's no point working on modeler tools if you're going to have to rewrite them to integrate them into layout, as you might as well rewrite them from scratch to best utilize the new stuff when layout has modeler integrated. NT could be implementing snaps as we speak, but the tools will then need to be be rewritten to take advantage of them, as well as faster modelling optimizations. All that stuff won't be seen until it's mature, but getting to the mature stage is probably the biggest part of the rewrite. Cameras and lights are discrete parts, very self contained, but a whole new modeler? That's a big chunk of code....

Dodgy
02-27-2008, 12:13 AM
pretty good lookin' but distinct lack of shadows in the example render... hope they have larger "combing brushes" too.... also seems like older 'guide hair' 2pt poly techniques will be applicable.
jin

It does have shadowing.

jin choung
02-27-2008, 12:16 AM
Thus you can start with just a few guides, sculpt them, then use them to create more guides, which you can adjust to grow more guides and thus refine over and over.

if there are no "area of effect" combing brushes, this might be its saving grace. i can see that workflow being do-able.

but what do you think of it in terms of fur? you think it can pull off something like this:

http://peach.blender.org/index.php/fluffy-puffy-peach-posters/

or

http://peach.blender.org/index.php/grooming-time/ (check out the .ogg movie at the end)

??

jin

p.s. this is interesting cuz it seems to be like ff4's ik manipulation... but it also seems to have area effect brush as i was talking about for mass manipulation instead of tedious strand by strand

http://peach.blender.org/wp-content/uploads/chinchilla_parents.jpg

jin choung
02-27-2008, 12:42 AM
There's no point working on modeler tools if you're going to have to rewrite them to integrate them into layout, as you might as well rewrite them from scratch to best utilize the new stuff when layout has modeler integrated.

exactly right. but this would apply to something like the hair system too.

it's gluing on more STUFF that is DEPENDENT on the OLD STUFF.... making it harder if NEW STUFF should get developed.

that's the - somewhat distressing - point. if the lights and renderer are self contained or at least tied into the BASE (i guess we're assuming this will be layout), then that's good and fine.

but i agree with the op's sentiment (and have expressed like ad nauseum in the past). basically, it's my lwzero, tabula rasa argument - legacy creates an interminable mess.

jin

starbase1
02-27-2008, 12:54 AM
Mmmm....no new images in awhile, that could mean :

a/ The beta testers are burnt out with all the testing and what not.

b/ They are tooooo drunk to hit the render button.

c/ They have been tied and gagged by Chuck :hey:

d/ They are working on some final render examples and Proton is about to start posting videos of all the new tools in action :D

:thumbsup: :newtek: :thumbsup:

Kuzey

No, they are all working on making thick orange mustaches, suitable for Yosemite Sam!

wavemaster
02-27-2008, 12:58 AM
exactly right. but this would apply to something like the hair system too.

it's gluing on more STUFF that is DEPENDENT on the OLD STUFF.... making it harder if NEW STUFF should get developed.

that's the - somewhat distressing - point. if the lights and renderer are self contained or at least tied into the BASE (i guess we're assuming this will be layout), then that's good and fine.

but i agree with the op's sentiment (and have expressed like ad nauseum in the past). basically, it's my lwzero, tabula rasa argument - legacy creates an interminable mess.

jin

This was my point... every tool that they implement thats workflow is dependent on this old architecture will need to be updated too! And if they don't... then the plans for LW aren't what I was hoping!

Dodgy
02-27-2008, 01:00 AM
exactly right. but this would apply to something like the hair system too.

it's gluing on more STUFF that is DEPENDENT on the OLD STUFF.... making it harder if NEW STUFF should get developed.

jin

The difference here is that FF4's grooming and modelling tools are already working and 'completed' so adding them costs nothing.

starbase1
02-27-2008, 01:01 AM
What would the spherical light be used for? As a replacement to the area?

I'm no lighting expert, but it seems to me that light bulbs are pretty much round, as is the Sun, so it should be more realistic! Also remember that an area light will be edge on to some directions, which can produce artefacts.

I'm also wondering if it would look cool for a scale solar system for a lunar eclipse as we have just had one! It should do the tapering umbra rather well, though I'd have to think about how to do realistic reddening...

wavemaster
02-27-2008, 01:03 AM
A more realistic point light...

RedBull
02-27-2008, 01:03 AM
ummm.... so the binary arts website is "down for maintenance"....


It's still up for myself, and you would think customers would of been contacted, if NT did buy it. http://www.binaryartsinc.com/FiberFactoryIV.htm
Maybe NT bought FFIV 'Lite' version.... :)

jin choung
02-27-2008, 01:09 AM
The difference here is that FF4's grooming and modelling tools are already working and 'completed' so adding them costs nothing.

true. it costs absolutely nothing. but neither is it a long term solution then. not something that's looking to the horizon. so the point then would be that it's a stop gap solution that will have to be ditched when the infrastructure changes.

meh... it's true but i'll take it. not ideal but certainly nothing to raise a stink over - which i'm not trying to do here. it is true but i'll take it.

jin

p.s.

HEY - y'know, i always thought we should go the XSI route - let LW9.X go fallow and give it users while LWZERO ramps up... like soft gave softimage to people while xsi was still less then fully implemented.

but your post seems to imply a different route... and i LIKE IT!

instead of letting lw9.x go fallow, JUST LET MODELER go fallow... if we're not going to abandon the ENTIRETY of the code base but move development over to LAYOUT as the BASE to build the new lw on top of, modeler can be stripped clean and implemented piece by piece into layout and in the meantime, just give everyone MODELER until it's implementation is done in layout (which will become LW10... combined app).

that could be really smart and that could really work.....

mykyl
02-27-2008, 01:29 AM
Not sure if anyone can answer but does this hair solution offer the ability to have the hair flow according to a map applied to the model?

Cheers

Mike R

jin choung
02-27-2008, 01:33 AM
Not sure if anyone can answer but does this hair solution offer the ability to have the hair flow according to a map applied to the model?

Cheers

Mike R

how would the texture map define flow? like a normal map - color defines xyz direction?

jin

prospector
02-27-2008, 01:48 AM
get rid of those 9s

RedBull
02-27-2008, 02:14 AM
Not sure if anyone can answer but does this hair solution offer the ability to have the hair flow according to a map applied to the model?

Cheers

Mike R

FFIV does allow UV and other types of nodes/maps to control the flow, as does Sasquatch and most others.

Dodgy
02-27-2008, 02:17 AM
true. it costs absolutely nothing. but neither is it a long term solution then. not something that's looking to the horizon. so the point then would be that it's a stop gap solution that will have to be ditched when the infrastructure changes.
jin

p.s.

HEY - y'know, i always thought we should go the XSI route - let LW9.X go fallow and give it users while LWZERO ramps up... like soft gave softimage to people while xsi was still less then fully implemented.

but your post seems to imply a different route... and i LIKE IT!
Instead of letting lw9.x go fallow, JUST LET MODELER go fallow... if we're not going to abandon the ENTIRETY of the code base but move development over to LAYOUT as the BASE to build the new lw on top of, modeler can be stripped clean and implemented piece by piece into layout and in the meantime, just give everyone MODELER until it's implementation is done in layout (which will become LW10... combined app).

that could be really smart and that could really work.....

No it isn't a long term solution, but if something is free, you might as well use it.

To be honest, I don't think it was planned to go quite this way, but they did extract the modeler functions into a dll in preparation for this, so it's just taking longer than they/we hoped.

Verlon
02-27-2008, 03:44 AM
get rid of those 9s

Beta testing too long? What the blazes does this mean?

Darth Mole
02-27-2008, 03:52 AM
The 9s, man, the 9s! They're out to get us!!

hrgiger
02-27-2008, 03:53 AM
forget the nines, watch your P's and Q's.

theo
02-27-2008, 06:42 AM
It seems excessively inefficient to speculate on fiberFX's origins when the 9.5 beta isn't even available for hands-on investigation and NT isn't talking.

And in the end, what does it matter? Nothing really matters... we are all going to die anyway... sometime... :devil:

Hmmm... slight deviation there-sorry.

serge
02-27-2008, 07:03 AM
Useful?
3D ribbons and arrows makes better looking scenes for someone that does them.

Something different and new for someone to use
...
Well this gives them another option and with HVs they can use much better texture decisions to differentiate between them.
Sorry Prospector, I still fail to see the point of using FiberFX in this case, but I guess I must be missing something. Couldn't I simply replicate the "arrow" scene by making a 2-point-poly-arrow, let it follow a path in Layout, and having Hypervoxels being emitted from its vertices?

COBRASoft
02-27-2008, 07:06 AM
I don't understand what all this humble is about. I don't care if it is FF4 or SAS 2 or own development. It has to work, it has to be smoothly implemented and must be updated in the future with the rest of LW, and not like SAS Lite was in the past years...

pixelranger
02-27-2008, 07:23 AM
serge: It's not about showing something nice, it's about exploring possibilities. And fine, if you don't see the point, good for you. I wouldn't have see the point in moving a drum kit down the street for every eight frames either, but mr. Gondry made a hell of a cool music video just doing that. I don't think prospector made it for the result in itself, but for the ideas that are opened up from it. And that goes for all the 9.5 previews we have seen, I believe.

serge
02-27-2008, 07:34 AM
... And fine, if you don't see the point, good for you....
But am I not allowed to ask then?

Prospector is showing us the possibilities of FiberFX, which is greatly appreciated. In his movies he's showing us reasons for using FiberFX, but I fail to see the reason in this case (which might be because of the lack of my intelligence), so I though I'd ask. That's all. I don't have any bad intentions.

prospector
02-27-2008, 07:47 AM
Couldn't I simply replicate the "arrow" scene by making a 2-point-poly-arrow, let it follow a path in Layout, and having Hypervoxels being emitted from its vertices?
I thought of that about 4 hours ago, and as soon as this render anim is done I will check it for sure, but I don't think you'd get all the new stuff that goes along with FiberFX built one.
Gimme a cupla hours.
I'll get back to you.
I know it does reflection and refraction now with FFX, but will it do it without it??

Hmmm
I think it depends WHERE in render process the HVs are rendered.
Hmmm

prospector
02-27-2008, 07:50 AM
I don't think prospector made it for the result in itself, but for the ideas that are opened up from it.
Correct

But serge has a point I must check..

I know prior to this, you couldn't see the effects that you can now... but I will check to be certain.

wavemaster
02-27-2008, 07:54 AM
I'll ask again...How about the new motion blur?

pixelranger
02-27-2008, 08:23 AM
Serge: Off course. Asking is good. I have to apologize for my last one. It wasn't directed spesifically at you and I was abit harsh. I was a bit stressed out here at work and I just saw your last post and I've been seeing alot of posts regarding the aesthetic quality or visual consept of the test images and I think I just have to stop reading here until 9.5 goes open beta.
Didn't mean to offend.
:beerchug:

jasonwestmas
02-27-2008, 08:25 AM
I was thinking the same thing while watching the video for FF. If that wasn't reason #110 to integrate the two then I don't know what is. All we have to do is wait for them to retire in 10 years and we'll have it!!!...

Then of course adjusting weights in layout is directly related to this editing/integration issue as well. That's an age old conversation as well, hehe.

serge
02-27-2008, 09:42 AM
Didn't mean to offend.
:beerchug:
No offense taken. ;) :beerchug:

T-Light
02-27-2008, 09:59 AM
Wow, been trying to send this since this morning, New ISP and it's just not playing with our wireless.

5th time lucky, here goes...

Greg "T-Rex"-

Hey, Brent...

Since, now it's official that FiberFX is indeed Fiber Factory 4.x "embedded" in LightWave 3D, how about posting that superb "Dreamcatcher" image of yours?
That was one great quality result you had there...


Geothefaust-

Hear hear! Good stuff there.
Thanks Gregg and Geo, but I still don't know if this really is FFIV, or if it is, how much has it changed? I was thinking of posting some images many many pages ago when the Sasquatch arguments were getting a bit rabbid. Problem is, I've no idea what FiberFX is yet, it's like asking wether acrylic is as good as oils but only have your old oil painting to prove the point. I'd love to show FFIV stuff, I'm just holding back a bit for more info. :thumbsup:

Jin -

man if this IS fiber factory and i purchased ff4, i would be... a bit more unpleasant than usual
I bought it, and if it's been integrated I'm chuffed to bits. Jon must have spent a heck of a long time on FFIV, and it was worth every penny. If Newtek have seen fit to include it in LW, then I wish Jon and Newtek the very best of luck with it.

Jin -

but it also seems to have area effect brush as i was talking about for mass manipulation instead of tedious strand by strand.
Not sure what you mean, FFIV could control thousands of hairs with a single guide. You could make an entire hairstyle with very few guides. In fact, because of the way FFIV added extra info to the single poly root, you could just use flow and gravity for your hair without using any guides at all.

rdolishny
02-27-2008, 11:03 AM
Funny how this 62 page thread has been condensed to seven images on the sticky 9.5 post.

jin choung
02-27-2008, 11:17 AM
Not sure what you mean, FFIV could control thousands of hairs with a single guide. You could make an entire hairstyle with very few guides. In fact, because of the way FFIV added extra info to the single poly root, you could just use flow and gravity for your hair without using any guides at all.

yeah but you have to manipulate every GUIDE HAIR individually. look at the screenshot link... each one of those are guide hairs. and an area effect comb like the one pictured lets you manipulate many guide hairs at once.

jin

diazerique
02-27-2008, 11:23 AM
That is great!

T-Light
02-27-2008, 11:40 AM
Jin -

each one of those are guide hairs. and an area effect comb like the one pictured lets you manipulate many guide hairs at once.
Oh ok, I'm with you.

cagey5
02-27-2008, 02:09 PM
Funny how this 62 page thread has been condensed to seven images on the sticky 9.5 post.


Now up to nine images with some very impressive times v quality in the latest postings.

zapper1998
02-27-2008, 02:24 PM
so does this mean we will be getting FFIV updates from NEWTEK now????



:newtek: :thumbsup: :lwicon:

zapper1998
02-27-2008, 02:28 PM
YES I MADE IT I MADE IT :)
that damn sick bastard LARDBROS didnt fckt me up this time...
I OWN POST nr. #1000
i win i win i win :)
now we can close thread :P thanks for cooperation


Man am I Laughing

:lol: :lol:

congrats

lets see who gets NR. #2000

art
02-27-2008, 03:12 PM
I suggest that we save this thread for the next 9.x beta.
Trivia time: who won the 2000th post challenge in the famous "hmmm 14th already" thread?

geothefaust
02-27-2008, 03:51 PM
Now up to nine images with some very impressive times v quality in the latest postings.


Indeed. Those images BeeVee posted are great looking. Hopefully more people will be posting soon.

Verlon
02-27-2008, 04:50 PM
I suggest that we save this thread for the next 9.x beta.
Trivia time: who won the 2000th post challenge in the famous "hmmm 14th already" thread?


BeeVee got 2000. I got 1000.

kopperdrake
02-27-2008, 06:32 PM
if you're reading this BeeVee, how do those FG render times split into GI calculation and actual rendering time?

towfish
02-28-2008, 10:53 AM
I know that the testers aren't allowed to share info about the CA developement....But I've been using LW for the past year off&on and originally bought it because it was affordable and seemed to do everything I wanted. I really wanted to do CA, but soon realized I couldn't jump right into that without learning basic modeling/rigging/etc.... So I've been practicing on all kinds of stuff and I love LW for just about everything except CA. I've purchased just about all the DVDs and some books but creating a stable rig/character is a brutal task for me. I have so many ideas but I can't seem to get around focusing on rigging as opposed to animating....

So, my question is..... Do I bite the bullet and purchase Maya for this or wait and see the CA improvements in LW? I think I will always use LW but what I've read and seen about Maya is that it's hands down the most "logical" and user friendly program for CA.

Can any Maya users shed some light on the learning curve for Maya CA.

thanx

Auger
02-28-2008, 11:00 AM
So, my question is..... Do I bite the bullet and purchase Maya for this or wait and see the CA improvements in LW? I think I will always use LW but what I've read and seen about Maya is that it's hands down the most "logical" and user friendly program for CA.


thanx

You should download the learning edition and try it out. Maya is not what I'd call user friendly. :bangwall:

kfinla
02-28-2008, 11:00 AM
I would wait.. the open beta is about a week away.. u might wanna look at Project messiah also, it was just updated.. much cheaper and works with LW data

towfish
02-28-2008, 11:09 AM
One other thing.... I'm a CAD guy, so maybe some packages have more of a CAD work flow.....?? That would help.

meatycheesyboy
02-28-2008, 11:16 AM
Do I bite the bullet and purchase Maya for this or wait and see the CA improvements in LW?


One other thing.... I'm a CAD guy, so maybe some packages have more of a CAD work flow.....?? That would help.

I might be massively confused here but does CAD usually deal with character animation?

jasonwestmas
02-28-2008, 11:18 AM
One other thing.... I'm a CAD guy, so maybe some packages have more of a CAD work flow.....?? That would help.
Lots of Architectural Previz Guys on these forums so I would imagine you would get a lot of support using CAD tools. So you are aware of the Lightwave CAD plugins?? As for CA Lightwave can do it, though it's not so easy for more detailed stuff.

Gregg "T.Rex"
02-28-2008, 11:19 AM
So, my question is..... Do I bite the bullet and purchase Maya for this or wait and see the CA improvements in LW? I think I will always use LW but what I've read and seen about Maya is that it's hands down the most "logical" and user friendly program for CA.

Can any Maya users shed some light on the learning curve for Maya CA.

thanx

Modeling in Maya is okay, but if you're used to Modeler with all the plugins, you wouldn't want to change. Rigging in Maya can be tedious and you'll have to deal with lot's of MELs, but the possibilities are unlimited and the end results can be amazing. Now, Animating characters in Maya is fast, excellent and very forgivable and not so hard to grasp. Maya is bottomless future-wise, but have the nastiest interface ever, imo. When you get past that, you'll find a great 3D animation package, with a lot of ups and downs. Maya likes to crash easily (especially on the PC platform) and unlike with LightWave 3D, if it crashes, it crashes for good, leaving you less options that you have with LightWave 3D.

On the other hand, you can become an overall master LightWave 3D user in a very short time, but given the same amount of time in Maya, you'll become a mere regular user, as the learning curve and depth of Maya don't allow you to do things as fast as LightWave 3D in particular.

Both programs are excellent on the hands of experienced users and can do wonderful stuff. Personally, i prefer doing all my CA work in Motion Builder for the last 3-4 years, because of the easy to use interface, the excellent ready-made rigs and the ultra fast response in the viewports; and because i hate MEL... :)

Just my 2 cents...
T.Rex

lardbros
02-28-2008, 11:21 AM
I might be massively confused here but does CAD usually deal with character animation?


Yeah, you're massively confused! :)

I was wondering if Newtek are gonna post any more sexy images... BeeVee has updated the sticky thread with some older images, just would love some more new ones at the rate they were coming in last week! :)

(Oh, and while im at it... i complained about some image compression looking bad and with BAD banding in another thread, or might have been this one. I've just realised it's only some images, and only sometimes. It only happens in Internet Explorer 7!

Why is this and how do i stop it?

pooby
02-28-2008, 11:21 AM
what I've read and seen about Maya is that it's hands down the most "logical" and user friendly program for CA.

I was offered a bunch of free seats of Maya for our studio, but turned them down and forked out a substantial amount for seats of XSI instead because of its ease of use.
But then Maya has a lot more users so you do what you see fit.

kopperdrake
02-28-2008, 11:30 AM
I've just realised it's only some images, and only sometimes. It only happens in Internet Explorer 7!

Why is this and how do i stop it?

Use Firefox ;)

RonGC
02-28-2008, 11:34 AM
Yeah, you're massively confused! :)

I've just realised it's only some images, and only sometimes. It only happens in Internet Explorer 7!

Why is this and how do i stop it?

Get rid of Explorer 7 and get Opera or one of the other better browsers.

Ron

towfish
02-28-2008, 11:43 AM
I might be massively confused here but does CAD usually deal with character animation?

Not quite but the interface, navigation and tool names might be similar to a cad program. AutoDesk also makes Inventor which is a 3D CAD program.

get it?

Ztreem
02-28-2008, 11:57 AM
Autodesk also does Alias Studio which is a CAID app and it looks exactly like Maya.

towfish
02-28-2008, 11:58 AM
Thanx T.Rex

I'm ok with the modeling. I just want to be able to take a character, rig it and get to the animating part quickly and be able to pose the character without having to spend hours figuring out what's wrong and why then re-rigging. This may sound greedy but I know some packages can achieve this a lot easier than LW.

I merly want to get to the level where character stability is EASILY obtainable.

thanx again

jin choung
02-28-2008, 12:07 PM
my opinions on maya are numerous so i won't repeat them here. you can search if you'd like.

but one legitimate caveat:

it's a BIG bullet to bite. for me, an app is not just initial buy in price but the cost of maintenance and upkeep.

maya has a pretty fing prohibitive upkeep cost. even bugfix updates are often for charge and lately, you don't get new features unless you are part of their subscriber program.

maya 2008 release 2 has michael comet's recently acquired muscle stuff but unless you're subscribed, you don't get it.

i use maya at work and so it's not my concern to worry about. but imo, maya is not an app that is affordable to an individual. unless money is of no concern to said individual... which it might be.

jin

jesusguijarro
02-28-2008, 12:08 PM
So, my question is..... Do I bite the bullet and purchase Maya for this or wait and see the CA improvements in LW? I think I will always use LW but what I've read and seen about Maya is that it's hands down the most "logical" and user friendly program for CA.

Can any Maya users shed some light on the learning curve for Maya CA.

thanx

Well if you only want to animate why not use Messiah, Is as good as Maya for animation and the price is condsiderabily lower and it works very, very good

A Mejias
02-28-2008, 12:10 PM
IMHO... workflow needs to be addressed in all aspects of modeler and layout. The fact that they keep on adding all these new features without a addressing the underlying workflow issues just puts them further behind with every update! Hope I am wrong but it seems not...

:agree:
Agree!!!
:agree:

towfish
02-28-2008, 12:26 PM
Well if you only want to animate why not use Messiah, Is as good as Maya for animation and the price is condsiderabily lower and it works very, very good


Thanx Jin

Jesus, I just looked into Messiah a little. Looks great for seting up a rig easily. How does it interact with lLW? If I want to create the setting in LW but animate the character with Mess. How does that work?

thanx again guys.

Cageman
02-28-2008, 12:27 PM
i use maya at work and so it's not my concern to worry about.

Didn't you mention somewhere you guys were still on Maya 7? We moved to 8.5 some months ago and will stay there until whatever we work on is finished. :)

jin choung
02-28-2008, 01:31 PM
that might've been on the last contract. here we're 8.5.

jin

wyattharris
02-28-2008, 01:51 PM
Prospector, those last few tests you've posted remind me of when we first started testing Shave for LW years ago, fun stuff. So lets see something walking/moving through grass/rug etc. and have the effectors in the feet so it displaces the grass geometry underfoot... If your not busy of course. ;)

Not sure if I heard a confirmation or not, are there large area brushes that modify multiple guides? This way you effectively are combing the hair. My terms may be off but my experiences are mostly from Shave.

jin choung
02-28-2008, 02:11 PM
yeah, i posted an example image of an area affect comb brush from blender that affects multiple guides at once... no word. but if it is ff4, there is no indication in their videos that there is such functionality.... one strand at a time seems like....

jin

wyattharris
02-28-2008, 03:05 PM
Yeah, that video is what prompted my question. Manipulating individual strands doesn't sound like a great time but I'll cope. :thumbsup:

jesusguijarro
02-28-2008, 03:59 PM
Thanx Jin

Jesus, I just looked into Messiah a little. Looks great for seting up a rig easily. How does it interact with lLW? If I want to create the setting in LW but animate the character with Mess. How does that work?

thanx again guys.
You need to rig Messiah and export animation via MDD files, also there is a pluging that conect Messiah with LW, but the rig must be done in Messiah wich is cool becuse of the extensive tools Messiah have for rigging an animation.

wacom
02-28-2008, 04:30 PM
Instead of Messiah...

Of coarse you could just fork over th $500 and get XSI FND...and use it as a plugin for LW. Very nice animation tools over all and it's a deep package even at the $500 mark. In addition you gain a small seat of mr, and for $500 more you gain access to the newly released reyes renderer 3Delight for XSI.

Sice XSI comes with the LW portion of point oven you can transfer most things back and forth. If you use ess or adv. then you can probably take advantage of some crosswalk features with LW 9.5.

So for less than 2k you could get three different render engines, two ways to animate, two ways to model etc. on two platforms with good support networks. I find LW and XSI compliment each other nicely in these ways.

Just my 2 pennies I rub together.

silviotoledo
02-28-2008, 05:45 PM
Towfish

Don't think too much about this, just use both! 80% Lightwave and 20% Maya. Maya is good for characters and effects.

Lightwave is a powerful software. Caracter animation is good. Not yet perfect, but good and usefull. It will be better next versions.

I am a Maya user too. I am studying and using Maya. Maya is amazing, but too difficult and not so productive as lightwave. Maya is a software to work in a team. The basic part is incredible complicated on Maya ( and so easy on lightwave ) and the complex part is incredible easy to setup in Maya. Maya is too advanced for simulations in characters and controling geometry deforming.

The only reason to go to Maya is the Softbodies, simulations ( fluids, hard and cloth specially is really best ) and muscle real nice muscles.

Generally we don't need this for cartoon characters, or rigid models and for 80% of the jobs.

So, keep your faith on lightwave. It's the best tool for 80% of everything and go study Maya ( 6 months minimal to start doing good things ). wich you will use for 20% of the jobs.

You also can transfer all functions between lightwave and Maya throught FBX export. Bone animations included. Try it, it's really amazing!

Good Luck!


> hey let's keep asking Chuck and Newtek team for Muscles, Clusters and others on LW 10.x :)

silviotoledo
02-28-2008, 06:18 PM
Messiah is cool, but it replaces Lightwave bones and displacements and the data transfer is via MDD.

XSI is excellent for Character Animation ( lightwave 10 must copy it ) so good as Maya, but it doesn't have the same quality dynamics and not the effects, the fluid, the powerfull connections of Maya. The good thing is that it comes with Syflex.

Anyway, nothing means you must leave Lightwave. As I said before, Lightwave is ready for 80% of the job!

CHUCK

See my partial wish list for LW 9.6 ( he he )

1) COLLISION on cloth effects :). Actually it's dirty.
2) Animation Layers
3) Fix the graph editor bug ( we can't stretch or edit animation, it kills the job )
4) realtime update of EXPRESSIONS and MOTION MIXER - we actually need to move timeline for update.
5) Finish RELATIVITY module and open door for Endomorphs, weights and others.
6) Deformers must work joinned. Actually one deformer kills the others
7) MUSCLES

I will ask more only for LW 9.7

jasonwestmas
02-28-2008, 06:37 PM
There's actually a forum for feature requests. . . .no need to yell at chuck.

hrgiger
02-28-2008, 06:46 PM
Yes, that was pretty rude.

kopperdrake
02-28-2008, 07:00 PM
My eyes, they burn!! 8~

jameswillmott
02-28-2008, 07:14 PM
See my partial wish list for LW 9.6 ( he he )

That's quite offensive, there are other areas for requesting features and you don't need to use such huge lettering, as if it'll make your features get implemented faster or something...

JeffrySG
02-28-2008, 07:48 PM
Red.... all... I... see... is....

Red...

;)

bwtr
02-28-2008, 07:53 PM
Looks like the LW update may get close to the Carrara6.1 update?

Philbert
02-28-2008, 08:38 PM
Ouch. That was very unpleasant to look at. I'd much rather look at this:

http://www.littlefolkspuzzle.com/catalog/1350-30PCFLOORPUZZLE-KITTEN.JPG

Verlon
02-28-2008, 09:21 PM
I actually liked the red. The font size was a bit excessive.

The requests are....understandable.

Silkrooster
02-28-2008, 09:28 PM
Ouch. That was very unpleasant to look at. I'd much rather look at this:

http://www.littlefolkspuzzle.com/catalog/1350-30PCFLOORPUZZLE-KITTEN.JPG
Aw, he's cute.... The fur/hair feature is better than I thought:D Just joking
Silk

Dodgy
02-28-2008, 10:30 PM
Arrrgh stop posting pictures of cats and give us what we want! Pics of chuck norris! - errr, I mean, more LW 9.5 pics and info!

Speedmonk42
02-28-2008, 11:31 PM
http://www.littlefolkspuzzle.com/catalog/1350-30PCFLOORPUZZLE-KITTEN.JPG

Now I am hungry. I would have eat about six of those though.

Exception
02-29-2008, 01:57 AM
ktty!

titane357
02-29-2008, 02:00 AM
You should write with smaller letters so you could ask many many more features in the same space....

jin choung
02-29-2008, 02:04 AM
this video probably captures my hatred for iniquity, incompetence and just plain bad decision making in software development best.

it's hard to watch but if you can get past the language, you'll finally be able to see how right i am.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wpv01Yo1igA

jin

Dodgy
02-29-2008, 03:00 AM
Oh man, that is just so true on so many points....

IMI
02-29-2008, 03:11 AM
ktty!

:lol:


I want to make sure I have this right:

As the level of intelligence decreases, and the incidence of inane statements increases, the likelihood that kitty pictures will appear becomes more likely. At a certain point where the factors meet, kitty pix are inevitable.

Am I understanding this correctly?

Exception
02-29-2008, 03:44 AM
this video probably captures my hatred for iniquity, incompetence and just plain bad decision making in software development best.

Mieuw!
-Meow-
Mieuw!
-Meow-

Truly beautiful moments there, Jin!



Am I understanding this correctly?

Uhhh...

cresshead
02-29-2008, 04:43 AM
fur rules!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qit3ALTelOo&feature=related

Dodgy
02-29-2008, 05:19 AM
I like this....
http://www.mikegreen.name/MyAnims/funnycats1.wmv

Philbert
02-29-2008, 05:43 AM
My mom sent me this one last night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JiJzqXxgxo

andywright
02-29-2008, 06:00 AM
Looks like the LW update may get close to the Carrara6.1 update?

Though its probably heresy to compare a £150 piece of software with a £500 one, I must admit, my experience so far is you get much more bang per buck in Carrara and I can only hope the new LW hair solution is more user friendly than sasquatch which I find very hard to get good results out of compared to Cararra's native hair and fur system.

Anyway, I will sit back and wait and see if C6.1 or LW9.5 arrives first :D

Darth Mole
02-29-2008, 08:02 AM
Jeez, what a bunch of pussies.

dwburman
02-29-2008, 08:23 AM
:rolleyes:

Andyjaggy
02-29-2008, 08:28 AM
ktty!

That's awesome. I miss my cat avatar.

wyattharris
02-29-2008, 09:51 AM
Jeez, what a bunch of pussies.

Nice!


But I guess the intelligence part of this thread is all and truly gone. Sadly, I have no kitties, only cats.

Speedmonk42
02-29-2008, 12:32 PM
http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/save-the-cat.jpg

silviotoledo
02-29-2008, 01:55 PM
and finally...

after a crazy offtopic CAT MOMENT ( wich looks like maxwell render :) ) we will finally see new pics 9.5 for our eyes only ( hope next week it will be to our hands too ).


Come on test Team, we want more pics.

loki74
02-29-2008, 01:57 PM
http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/save-the-cat.jpg


Perfect! x]

RonGC
02-29-2008, 03:14 PM
http://radio.weblogs.com/0107064/MyImages/save-the-cat.jpg

Now even as much as i love cats, this is ROFLMA funny.:thumbsup:

Ron

Kaiten
02-29-2008, 03:26 PM
Sat waitin' for the beta :)

http://gallery.hoyhoy.org/albums/random/crazy_cat_watching_tv.jpg

IMI
02-29-2008, 03:39 PM
Has it ever been done before that an internet forum thread began with kitty pictures, then evolved into insults, inane statements, off topic speculation and finally, serious and intelligent discussion?
In other words, backwards. Could be an interesting challenge and exercise. ;)

Darth Mole
02-29-2008, 03:51 PM
Why no dogs? Cats suck.

erikals
02-29-2008, 04:03 PM
Thing is, cats often become independent when they grow up, so they can seem booring, but kittens are just as, or maybe even more entertaining than dogs. Birds are cool too, they have another way of thinking, so they can be quite smart compared to their size.

Do a youtube search on cats, they do some cool stuff.

jin choung
02-29-2008, 04:31 PM
Has it ever been done before that an internet forum thread began with kitty pictures, then evolved into insults, inane statements, off topic speculation and finally, serious and intelligent discussion?
In other words, backwards. Could be an interesting challenge and exercise. ;)

lol.... no... that's like a broken cup assembling itself....

it's one of the laws thermodynamics (i believe it's 2C). all things tend to go from order to disorder to cats... for some reason.

as for why no dogs... good question. i'm a dog person myself. as erikals pointed out, grown cats can be rather independent and indifferent to you... if i wanted that, i'd get a girlfriend.

dogs seem much more affectionate and genuinely glad to see you.

but the internet is about cats. i don't know why that is. it just is.

jin

IMI
02-29-2008, 04:40 PM
Ah, forum entropy. I see.

Kaiten
02-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Lets not go off topic gentlemen...

http://www.tustrucos.com/wallpapers/Peliculas/fondos-cine-Clasicos/Fm-Westworld.jpg

cresshead
02-29-2008, 05:44 PM
i think the test team will grow next week.....like err BIG...open beta is about to arrive!

so piks will be only on open beta area....you better sign up!

wacom
02-29-2008, 08:17 PM
lol.... no... that's like a broken cup assembling itself....

it's one of the laws thermodynamics (i believe it's 2C). all things tend to go from order to disorder to cats... for some reason.

as for why no dogs... good question. i'm a dog person myself. as erikals pointed out, grown cats can be rather independent and indifferent to you... if i wanted that, i'd get a girlfriend.

dogs seem much more affectionate and genuinely glad to see you.

but the internet is about cats. i don't know why that is. it just is.

jin

Actually Jin, while cats are nowhere as dependent on humans, they've found that during a certain critical part of their upbringing they either become more or less socially dependent not just on humans, but other cats as well. Interestingly enough, they've found that, unless the cats are separated from their mothers during that time, they will inherit it some how from their mothers (either being sketchy and hard to interact with or needy- like one of my cats is acting right now).

Some hypothesize that if you get a kitten during this time, and it is from a sketch mother AND you don't interact with it fully...you'll get a "skittish-kittish" on your hands! These use to be known as "barn cats" I believe.

Still- dogs have evolved those cute little eyebrow tactics and a love for human food (though my aunts 21 year old cat likes donuts and Mexican food) that makes them so adorable as long as they aren't chewing on your leg or your furniture...

I'm strictly a pet person myself (cats, dogs, frogs, lizards, birds, mice...). If you want to raise algae then you should get a decomposing girlfriend! :D

fineartist
02-29-2008, 08:51 PM
Man, I tell you, I can relate to all the frustration on the board about Newtek!

I just updated to 9.3.1 (15 minutes ago) while my friend who has years of experience modeling and rendering in Lightwave is setting here.

We get into the topic of me needing a house modeled for a movie I want to work on. So he says " I'll whip a house up for you, no problem!"

He jumps on modeler and starts making a poly. I looked at him and said " Wait just a minute, buster! That doesn't look like a house to me!!!"

The jerk tells me this is just the first step and he isn't done yet, that it takes alot longer that 2 seconds to make the model I need!

"WHAT!!!!??!?!?"

"How come you can't make what I want, when I want it!!?" What the heck is wrong with this dude, I ask myself.

"You see,... it takes a little patience on your part" he tells me..."I've just begun, wait til I say it's finished before you judge..."

I didn't let that lying bastard finish his sentence. Out the door his @ss went with all the BS he was slinging.....

I tell you NEWTEK, taking a look at the poly he made me, you tell me straight faced that your polygons look as good as XSI's or MAX's or MAYA's. I'm sure that those programs can do what I want, make me a house with one of those fancy buttons of theirs, some sort of "Dorothy and Toto, drop a house on the wicked witch" button or something.....

Geez

RedBull
02-29-2008, 09:06 PM
I tell you NEWTEK, taking a look at the poly he made me, you tell me straight faced that your polygons look as good as XSI's or MAX's or MAYA's. I'm sure that those programs can do what I want, make me a house with one of those fancy buttons of theirs, some sort of "Dorothy and Toto, drop a house on the wicked witch" button or something.....

Geez

Wow your wrong in a big way, LW is actually a lot better and faster for stuff like that than most of the other software, XSI and Maya generally take a lot longer to achieve the same result... They have the advantage of complexity and configurability, but their downside is the speed it takes to do the most basic things.

There is no "make not suck button", demonstrated by that dribbled diatribe you just wrote...


"you tell me straight faced that your polygons look as good as XSI's or MAX's or MAYA's."

ROFL........ Our polygons don't look as good?....... Are our triangles not triangular enough? Bwhahaahahahahah....
Surely this post is sarcasm that is going over my head.... :)

Mark The Great
02-29-2008, 09:17 PM
Surely this post is sarcasm that is going over my head.... :)

I think that's it. :)

RedBull
02-29-2008, 09:20 PM
I think that's it. :)

Well this is the NT forums.... So it's hard to be sure.. :)
However the polygon line was the funniest thing i have read today, so i thought it was worthy of reply... :)

Speedmonk42
02-29-2008, 09:35 PM
My LW 10 feature request.

You have a single button that loads a highly detailed model of New York, requires like 16GB of RAM.

Then you let it run for like 6 months.

And the plug in proceeds to destroy New York in some random way. Comet, Earthquake, Flood, Melting....

fineartist
02-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Yea, Red Bull, it was total sarcasm...I thought all the arguing and bickering could be put into a constructive format, hence my story.

I waited for quite awhile to upgrade ( mostly all the bills I have to tend to first ) but when I seen the 9.5 train rolling out soon, well, I got my ticket and can't wait to jump onboard!!!:)

RedBull
03-01-2008, 12:41 AM
Yea, Red Bull, it was total sarcasm...I thought all the arguing and bickering could be put into a constructive format, hence my story.


Heheh, no worries as i said it gave me a laugh.... :) (I need more of them)
I haven't been reading all the bickering or forum fuss that i guess is going on.

geothefaust
03-01-2008, 01:30 AM
Yea, Red Bull, it was total sarcasm...I thought all the arguing and bickering could be put into a constructive format, hence my story.

I waited for quite awhile to upgrade ( mostly all the bills I have to tend to first ) but when I seen the 9.5 train rolling out soon, well, I got my ticket and can't wait to jump onboard!!!:)


That was a super great post. I haven't had a good laugh like that in a while. :)

Thanks.

cagey5
03-01-2008, 01:47 AM
i think the test team will grow next week.....like err BIG...open beta is about to arrive!

so piks will be only on open beta area....you better sign up!


On the last beta we were free to post pics wherever so I expect that to continue on the next round.

tonybliss
03-01-2008, 03:38 AM
Why no dogs? Cats suck.

Thats why we men prefer them :P ;)

Verlon
03-01-2008, 03:54 AM
Cats > Dogs.....

I couldn't begin to count the reasons why.

loki74
03-01-2008, 11:34 AM
Cats > Dogs.....

I couldn't begin to count the reasons why.

Really?!

I couldn't begin to count the reasons why not... Dogs rule!

colkai
03-01-2008, 11:54 AM
Dogs rule!
Gorramn Straight! :thumbsup:

(Oh, Hawks are pretty cool too. :hey: )

kopperdrake
03-01-2008, 04:12 PM
With you guys all the way.

A cat is an expensive girlfriend who'll kick you out as soon as you stop showering her with attention and/or gifts.

A dog is your best mate who'll drink a beer with you once you've been dumped by your cat.

Before you think I'm some bitter single bloke, I'm married to a dog-lover who also happens to be seriously allergic to cats, so it's a win-win situation all round for me ;)

jin choung
03-01-2008, 04:32 PM
the complex and inexplicably deep relationship between dog and man is both mysterious and beautiful. case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CzYX3wY_K4

jin

kopperdrake
03-01-2008, 05:05 PM
lol :D

Strictly speaking I'm sure poodles don't count as real dogs though ;)

lesterfoster
03-01-2008, 05:12 PM
Sorry in advance if I have offended anyone with this link.

The cat with hands (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq3EsyotORM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq3EsyotORM

wacom
03-01-2008, 06:49 PM
lol :D

Strictly speaking I'm sure poodles don't count as real dogs though ;)

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, it was the Brits and the French who made poodles what we think of as "froo froo" pampered dogs today with their little ribbons and such.

Before that, they were mainly used as hunting dogs esp. for water foul. Their "silly" hair was developed to enable a hunter to clip it for different seasons and conditions- hence one cut was good for cold water, anther for hunting in the snow etc.

Poodles are actually a thought to be originally German dog, and the name roughly means "splashing/water hound" for their love of water (Pudelhund).

On over all obedience and intelligence trials poodles are some of the highest scorers.

Poodles- yet another case of people taking a perfectly good breed and reducing it to it's lamest components.

Kind of like how people treat Rottweilers like stupid meat heads (which they are not), and small dogs differently than larger dogs. Each an equally stupid practice that probably leads to more idiotic dogs and owners than I care to guess...

fineartist
03-01-2008, 06:51 PM
All registered and ready to goooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!:)

kopperdrake
03-01-2008, 08:28 PM
ooh wacom - don't blame the British for poodles, we call them French Poodles for a reason ;) From what I gather, the French took the Germsn hunting dog and bred 3 different sizes. We much prefer spaniels and retrievers as gun dogs over here, poodles in any guise aren't that common.

I do agree with your opinion on people owning big dogs for sold kind of macho kick - it's painful to see. A recent report here suggests that people being bitten by dogs has gone up by 40-50% in the last 4 years :( i own a dog, but I'm beginning to think you should need a dog licence to own one.

Verlon
03-01-2008, 10:37 PM
With you guys all the way.

A cat is an expensive girlfriend who'll kick you out as soon as you stop showering her with attention and/or gifts.

A dog is your best mate who'll drink a beer with you once you've been dumped by your cat.

Before you think I'm some bitter single bloke, I'm married to a dog-lover who also happens to be seriously allergic to cats, so it's a win-win situation all round for me ;)

Funny....we have a cat and a dog, and it is the dog that needs all the attention. Its the cat that'll hang out with you or leave you alone as you wish. Been like that with almost every cat and EVERY SINGLE DOG I have ever even heard of.

Stooch
03-01-2008, 11:25 PM
i saw a dog i like once. It was lying on the side of the highway.

Philbert
03-01-2008, 11:26 PM
so piks will be only on open beta area....you better sign up!

I was thinking the same thing. As soon as the OB starts I don't know if these images will disappear, (I doubt it) but there probably won't be many new ones. Someone else mentioned renders being allowed for the public during the past OBs I don't remember that.

Magnus81
03-02-2008, 12:29 AM
What is with all these cat vids and pics??? I thought this was the 9.5 forum, how did it degrade to this? You're all cat and dog worshipers!! Shame on all of you!!

mykyl
03-02-2008, 04:32 AM
Can you unsubscribe to a thread on this forum?

Cheers

Mike R

cagey5
03-02-2008, 04:35 AM
Yes. Click on Usercp to go to your profile page, click on list subscriptions. Tick the box of the forum you want to unsubscribe from and choose that option from the drop down box at the bottom

erikals
03-02-2008, 04:45 AM
ppl with cats are hobbyists, ppl with dogs are true Lightwavers.
No, poopdle is not a dog.

lardbros
03-02-2008, 04:50 AM
Can you unsubscribe to a thread on this forum?

Cheers

Mike R

Yeah, click on thread tools at the top and choose unsubscribe!!

This one has become quite unweildy... shame really... and now newtek aren't showing any more images... that's a shame too! :(

Limbus
03-02-2008, 04:51 AM
Can you unsubscribe to a thread on this forum?

Cheers

Mike R

There is a link on every Reply Email you get.

Florian

erikals
03-02-2008, 04:53 AM
There is a link on every Reply Email you get.

Florian

Be carefull, there is a "To unsubscribe from ALL threads" below it.
Don't click that one. I did once. Biig mistake.

Iain
03-02-2008, 05:35 AM
Be carefull, there is a "To unsubscribe from ALL threads" below it.
Don't click that one. I did once. Biig mistake.

I'm not so sure. They all end up with the same crap being thrown around anyway.

hrgiger
03-02-2008, 06:06 AM
Personally, I prefer not to subscribe to any threads. Like I need to know everytime someone makes an inane comment like "Agreed!" Or worse yet, a string of smileys.

This thread has turned into a whole lot of nothing. What was it about again? 9.5? And no new images have been posted to the images and animations only thread. It's, dare I say, a travesty.

Red_Oddity
03-02-2008, 07:14 AM
A recent report here suggests that people being bitten by dogs has gone up by 40-50% in the last 4 years :( i own a dog, but I'm beginning to think you should need a dog licence to own one.
Same could be said about people having children...But i do agree, there should be some sort of testing system to see if your responsible enough to own a dog (we do the same for driving cars, adopting kids, etc. so why not pet ownership aswell)

mykyl
03-02-2008, 07:22 AM
Got it. Thanks for the help. Got fed up coming back to this thread only to read yet another non lightwave 9.5 related post. :D

Cheers

Mike R

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-02-2008, 09:01 AM
There is a link on every Reply Email you get.

Florian
You can click on the button called "Thread Tools" at the top right area of this page and select from there "Unsubscribe from this Thread". That's the safest way for a per thread basis... ;)

T.Rex

jasonwestmas
03-02-2008, 10:06 AM
Same could be said about people having children...But i do agree, there should be some sort of testing system to see if your responsible enough to own a dog (we do the same for driving cars, adopting kids, etc. so why not pet ownership aswell)

Pet stores around here require you to fill out applications and fill in referances before releasing an animal into your care.

kopperdrake
03-02-2008, 10:14 AM
Great idea! No restrictions here beyond anything the seller decides to do. Adpot a rescue pet from the RSPCA and they'll come round to your house to check you out before handing over the pet, *and* follow you up later. But anyone can breed and sell and anyone can buy and own. It's no suprise that if you visit a dog home (pound?) half the dogs are small terriers left by old people having passed on, and massive macho dogs bought by idiots who discovered a big dog needs a lot of work.

I just love that a dog and human are essentially pack animals - so much in common, yet dogs are so easy to read once you get into their way of thinking. Not that's I'd be daft enough to presume to know a strange dog.

Exception
03-02-2008, 10:39 AM
Oh yeah, don't forget... #1173!

Sarford
03-02-2008, 02:48 PM
Oh yeah, don't forget... #1173!

Ah, there you're wrong, its clearly #1174

wyattharris
03-02-2008, 08:59 PM
I had a neighbor once that had 2 full size poodles that he hadn't turned 'fancy'. These things were huge, bigger than German Shepard's, and were covered in a big mop of black wiry hair. They came running around the corner barking and both pounced on me. I can see that the breed was originally hunting dogs.

wacom
03-03-2008, 01:09 AM
ooh wacom - don't blame the British for poodles, we call them French Poodles for a reason ;) From what I gather, the French took the Germsn hunting dog and bred 3 different sizes. We much prefer spaniels and retrievers as gun dogs over here, poodles in any guise aren't that common.

I do agree with your opinion on people owning big dogs for sold kind of macho kick - it's painful to see. A recent report here suggests that people being bitten by dogs has gone up by 40-50% in the last 4 years :( i own a dog, but I'm beginning to think you should need a dog licence to own one.

Well...there are certain poodle cuts with the name "English" and "British" in them for a reason! Sometimes when we look in the mirror, with or without clothes, we don't like who we see!

When I look I see 3 trillion dollars of debt...for what...don't even get me started. Man is my county's butt sagging! :D

On yet another pleasant aside: in the US up until recently the breed of dog that had the most recorded "bites" was...drum roll...not the pit bull....drum roll...the cocker spaniel! I was bitten by one, off the record, many times and can attest to their "nippy nature"!

janoverust
03-03-2008, 01:12 AM
Why is EVERY interesting thread being derailed into crap?

The 9.5 image thread has 11 post and this one has turned into a number counting mania?

Please Newtek, give the hungry people some OB love...




#1177

wacom
03-03-2008, 01:19 AM
Why is EVERY interesting thread being derailed into crap?


Dude, we're picking our factoidal brains out about cats and dogs and you just spat on us like serving wenches in an 15 century orgy!

I thought we could pass the time for OB...by passing along factoids...and personal pet preferences.

NewTek and PetFancy are going to make a magazine together soon- and it will ROCK!!!

Issue 1 "Give a dog a bone- or a joint"- how to model, rig, and light that pooch of yours with LW 9.5 and any digital camera.

lardbros
03-03-2008, 01:23 AM
Did you know, "dogs can't look up"







Quote courtesy of the film Hot Fuzz

Panikos
03-03-2008, 02:00 AM
[QUOTE=lardbros]Did you know, "dogs can't look up"

Actually all animals cant look up.

In greek, Anthropos ('Ανθρωπος) is a composited word of ano + throsko,
which means "the one that looks up"

danielkaiser
03-03-2008, 02:14 AM
I'm passing the time by taking high doses of muscle relaxers and smoking pot!!, which may account for some of my posts.

kopperdrake
03-03-2008, 03:39 AM
Well...there are certain poodle cuts with the name "English" and "British" in them for a reason! Sometimes when we look in the mirror, with or without clothes, we don't like who we see!

When I look I see 3 trillion dollars of debt...for what...don't even get me started. Man is my county's butt sagging! :D

On yet another pleasant aside: in the US up until recently the breed of dog that had the most recorded "bites" was...drum roll...not the pit bull....drum roll...the cocker spaniel! I was bitten by one, off the record, many times and can attest to their "nippy nature"!

Yep - there's a cut called the English Saddle, but as mentioned by someone earlier, it was originally a German hunting dog (the pudelhund - splashingdog). Believe me, poodles aren't that common or popular over here, if you see them you'll more often see Standard Poodles, the biggest, and they tend to be non-fancy looking.

We've got a cocker (or as you'd probably call 'English cocker'), and he's as soft as butter. This explains more about the Cocker Rage 'syndrome www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk

Sorry for the OT posts, but this thread went wayward ages ago with bickering, at least this is civilised :)

kopperdrake
03-03-2008, 03:41 AM
Perhaps as penance we should all model cats and dogs, with fur from the new 9.5 OB :D

jasonwestmas
03-03-2008, 06:33 AM
hmm, in registration there was a mysterious link that allowed me to sign up for the 9.5 open beta. . .could be nothing.

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-03-2008, 06:35 AM
Yeap...
But no 9.5 in the DL section..... yet...... :)

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-03-2008, 07:22 AM
BTW, here are some fur and hair examples from Houdini...
Bridgestone Scream (http://www.methodstudios.com/qt/qte32cc258ec0f73ef3712cf1726525ad8/bridgestone_scream_720P.mov)
and
Wamu Hair (http://www.methodstudios.com/qt/qte32cc258ec0f73ef3712cf1726525ad8/wamu_hair.mov)
Here's a screen of fur (not hair) guides in viewports. No special combing or anything complex; simple emitting from each vertex of the model...
http://media01.cgchannel.com/images/news/7117/04.jpg
On CG Channel you can read (http://www.cgchannel.com/news/viewfeature.jsp?newsid=7117)the complete article...


Here crossing fingers FiberFX can do the same... :):thumbsup:

lardbros
03-03-2008, 10:45 AM
BTW, here are some fur and hair examples from Houdini...

Here crossing fingers FiberFX can do the same... :):thumbsup:

Wahhooowww... that is some nice fur. Then what do you expect from houdini used properly! Looks fandabbydozey!

Philbert
03-03-2008, 10:56 AM
That commercial is hilarious too if you haven't seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu9ibUWIq8A

mav3rick
03-03-2008, 11:15 AM
burp

pardon


me vote for BOOBS plugin ....... since lw miss some extra buttons this one should look as nice touch


http://maceys.net/albums/Steph/huge_boobs.jpg

she has perfect HUD wiev.....

danielkaiser
03-03-2008, 11:53 AM
Well we can see what mav3rick is doing to pass the time.

geothefaust
03-03-2008, 12:11 PM
Geez mav, lol. That's crazy.

*Pete*
03-03-2008, 12:33 PM
she has perfect HUD wiev.....

i bet she cant turn her head to the sides....

mav3rick
03-03-2008, 12:38 PM
at least her car cost less than yours since she didnt ask for airbags

wacom
03-03-2008, 01:13 PM
Well, since we're posting crazy other brand images of reyes renderes doing hair have you seen the 3Delight ones? Like this dog?

To gain commercial access to the houdini extras isn't it like 2k to 8k depending on what you need? Still amazing stuff. I've seen a simple video with a rabbit that starts with regular hair, gets doused with water, then blown dry! Very cool!

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-03-2008, 01:43 PM
That commercial is hilarious too if you haven't seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu9ibUWIq8A

Uhm... Phil? :)
I did post the links to those two commercials, in far better quality than youtube. Did you missed them? :)

Here they are again:
http://www.methodstudios.com/qt/qte32cc258ec0f73ef3712cf1726525ad8/bridgestone_scream_720P.mov
and
http://www.methodstudios.com/qt/qte32cc258ec0f73ef3712cf1726525ad8/wamu_hair.mov

Cheers...

kcole
03-03-2008, 01:51 PM
Links are brokies!

Philbert
03-03-2008, 01:58 PM
Links are brokies!

Exactly, just get a "403 Forbidden"

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-03-2008, 02:03 PM
EDIT-Yes..... They are indeed broken...
Sorry.....

But, visit CG Channel (http://www.cgchannel.com/) and you'll see the article in front page. You'll found working links in there...

vadermanchild
03-03-2008, 02:12 PM
I think Newteks new fur plugin aims low and hits its target dead center.

Bullseye

*Pete*
03-03-2008, 02:34 PM
I think Newteks new fur plugin aims low and hits its target dead center.

Bullseye

not to start an argument here, but what exactly do you base that opinion on??..the now infamous furry balls?

you may be right, but we really have to just wait and see...

Cohen
03-03-2008, 03:43 PM
Hey guys. Wow, the new fiber tools are getting everyone so aroused!

My take: ff4 is not so bad. It would seem people are quick to conclude the quality of fiberFX without first taking it for a spin. I just found some old ff4 fur ball tests from last year when using the demo. I remember it didn't look as good as sasquatch when I first applied it. But once i started working on shading, texturing the fibers, and making adjustments with the styling tools, I got results that were very pleasing. So there was no "make pretty" button, nor were any settings turned on for an optimal fur look like sasquatch does at defualt. To put simply, good results required a little effort from the artist.

I'm actually stoked about its integration. The new area/linear light support as well as the radiosity support (which was not available when I tried the demo) sounds terrific. Anything extra that I have yet to see will just make it that much better.

To speculate on the product based on what has been presented is fine. Granted, like all software, the old ff4 lacked in some areas (Viper support would be one of the specifics). But I think everyone should refrain from being so critical in their judgement until after they try out the new fiber tools.

Here's the test. If anyone else has gotten good results from ff4, whether its from the demo version or not, why not post them?

Andyjaggy
03-03-2008, 03:55 PM
Because we aren't sure if it is FF4 (or has this been resolved, I stopped reading this thread about 50 pages back.)

lardbros
03-03-2008, 04:11 PM
So that is a damn good furball. The nicest one i've seen in fact.

I think it was pretty much confirmed, although not by a newtek person.

There was a training video Proton posted and it had the same nodes as used by Fiber Factory, but they were renamed as FiberFX. Almost revealed, so im pretty certain it's one and the same.

Although, it sounds like FiberFX has been worked on atleast a bit since it used to be fiber factory!

Andyjaggy
03-03-2008, 04:23 PM
Wait there was a training video by Proton that had FiberFx nodes in it and noone noticed and started the rumors? That's interesting. Usually someone pounces on something like that.

lardbros
03-03-2008, 04:37 PM
Wait there was a training video by Proton that had FiberFx nodes in it and noone noticed and started the rumors? That's interesting. Usually someone pounces on something like that.

Don't think anyone noticed at the time, didn't hear any rumours at all after the video was released. It is only on screen for a couple of frames, so that maybe why, but surprising none-the-less! :)

hrgiger
03-03-2008, 04:39 PM
I think Newteks new fur plugin aims low and hits its target dead center.

Bullseye

Geez, you're a downer, just like the real Morrissey (I love his work).

papou
03-03-2008, 04:51 PM
cool, finally we see an usable fur.

Andyjaggy
03-03-2008, 04:57 PM
That is the best furball we have seen yet. Some nice clumping and shading on it.

Stooch
03-03-2008, 04:59 PM
wow. so after reading this thread. I REALLY want....



to participate in a 15 century orgy.

Mark The Great
03-03-2008, 05:12 PM
So that is a damn good furball. The nicest one i've seen in fact.

I think it was pretty much confirmed, although not by a newtek person.

There was a training video Proton posted and it had the same nodes as used by Fiber Factory, but they were renamed as FiberFX. Almost revealed, so im pretty certain it's one and the same.

Although, it sounds like FiberFX has been worked on atleast a bit since it used to be fiber factory!

Which video was that?

lardbros
03-03-2008, 05:55 PM
I really can't remember. Just had a quick skim through the ones i have but i have so many it's tough to find. Someone posted it on these forums, it might have even been this thread somehwere. It definitely is there somewhere

dwburman
03-03-2008, 06:05 PM
glass.mov

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=658824&highlight=proton#post658824

bwtr
03-03-2008, 06:10 PM
Ok. I get the message that this thread indicates the logic of the LW users mentality for the 3 page instructions for installing the 9.5 Beta.

OH MY GOD!

danielkaiser
03-03-2008, 06:16 PM
So? Proton was using 9.5?

*Pete*
03-04-2008, 07:56 AM
To put simply, good results required a little effort from the artist.

that will surely upset a lot of people...i quess its going to be like with SSS, at first everyone needs SSS to make super realistic humans, once SSS is possible..very very few people here did post super realistic human images.
but atleast the whining about LW lacking SSS stopped...now we have too many if anything ;)

hey, that furball is very nice...long rendertime?

kfinla
03-04-2008, 08:03 AM
Perhaps this is a good juncture to add that there be FiberFX presets.. so that you do get nice fur or hair out of the box.. a rug preset, grass etc.. something to get in the ballpark.. certainly cuts down learning time to have a preset to reverse engineer.

SandroBenigno
03-04-2008, 08:38 AM
[QUOTE=silviotoledo]Messiah is cool, but it replaces Lightwave bones and displacements and the data transfer is via MDD.

XSI is excellent for Character Animation ( lightwave 10 must copy it ) so good as Maya, but it doesn't have the same quality dynamics and not the effects, the fluid, the powerfull connections of Maya. The good thing is that it comes with Syflex.

Anyway, nothing means you must leave Lightwave. As I said before, Lightwave is ready for 80% of the job!

[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="7"]CHUCK

See my partial wish list for LW 9.6 ( he he )

[ ... ]


É uma pena que seja um brasileiro, postando dessa forma, com tamanha falta de educação. É de dar vergonha. Esse tamanho exagerado nas letras não dá maior valor às suas palavras, mas sim à sua arrogância.

Uso o Lightwave 3D desde sua primeira versão integrada ao Toaster e sei o quanto esse software cresceu. Não conheço nenhuma empresa dessa área que dê tamanha importância às demandas de seus usuários. E o melhor: quando o upgrade não é feito a um custo baixo... é gratuito. Experimente comprar tudo que você tem integrado ao Lightwave em soluções externas...
E não foi porque alguém esbravejou, mas pelo comprometimento da empresa em desenvolver uma ferramenta amigável e poderosa. Certamente o "unwrap" do UV não seria tão integrado, se antes não fosse implementado o conceito dos "edges" e assim por diante. Não é só uma questão de tempo, mas de escalabilidade.

Assim como a implementação do meta-nurbs começou tímida e hoje é uma das ferramentas mais seguras e poderosas no Lightwave, também tem acontecido com todas as demais, cada uma adquiriu, a seu tempo, uma maturidade invejável.

Peço desculpas pela arrogância do meu compatriota, em nome dos outros brasileiros dessa comunidade.

We're sorry, in the name of other brazilians on this community. Really Sorry!

I hope somebody can translate the text... my english is poor and isn't so agile.

SandroBenigno
03-04-2008, 08:45 AM
Messiah is cool, but it replaces Lightwave bones and displacements and the data transfer is via MDD.

XSI is excellent for Character Animation ( lightwave 10 must copy it ) so good as Maya, but it doesn't have the same quality dynamics and not the effects, the fluid, the powerfull connections of Maya. The good thing is that it comes with Syflex.

Anyway, nothing means you must leave Lightwave. As I said before, Lightwave is ready for 80% of the job!

CHUCK

See my partial wish list for LW 9.6 ( he he )

1) COLLISION on cloth effects :). Actually it's dirty.
2) Animation Layers
3) Fix the graph editor bug ( we can't stretch or edit animation, it kills the job )
4) realtime update of EXPRESSIONS and MOTION MIXER - we actually need to move timeline for update.
5) Finish RELATIVITY module and open door for Endomorphs, weights and others.
6) Deformers must work joinned. Actually one deformer kills the others
7) MUSCLES

I will ask more only for LW 9.7

-------------------
(I reduced the red font in old size "7"...)

Silvio Toledo,

É uma pena que seja um brasileiro, postando dessa forma, com tamanha falta de educação. É de dar vergonha. Esse tamanho exagerado nas letras não dá maior valor às suas palavras, mas sim à sua arrogância.

Uso o Lightwave 3D desde sua primeira versão integrada ao Toaster e sei o quanto esse software cresceu. Não conheço nenhuma empresa dessa área que dê tamanha importância às demandas de seus usuários. E o melhor: quando o upgrade não é feito a um custo baixo... é gratuito. Experimente comprar tudo que você tem integrado ao Lightwave em soluções externas...
E não foi porque alguém esbravejou, mas pelo comprometimento da empresa em desenvolver uma ferramenta amigável e poderosa. Certamente o "unwrap" do UV não seria tão integrado, se antes não fosse implementado o conceito dos "edges" e assim por diante. Não é só uma questão de tempo, mas de escalabilidade.

Assim como a implementação do meta-nurbs começou tímida e hoje é uma das ferramentas mais seguras e poderosas no Lightwave, também tem acontecido com todas as demais, cada uma adquiriu, a seu tempo, uma maturidade invejável. Acredito que a comunidade conte sempre com suas críticas, mas dispensamos essa falta de educação.

-----------------------

Peço desculpas pela arrogância do meu compatriota, em nome dos outros brasileiros dessa comunidade.

We're sorry, in the name of other brazilians on this community. Really Sorry!

I hope somebody can translate the text... my english is poor and isn't so agile.

Speedmonk42
03-04-2008, 09:56 AM
Fur ball = Tribbles!

Woo hoo! Awsome! I can't wait to render thousands of Tribbles, except mine will bite and eat cows.

silviotoledo
03-04-2008, 12:42 PM
Hey Sandro, what a Pitty you're ashamed, I am not anyway.

They can show cute cats on the forum, why can't I write on my red font?
Hope not only you read it.

Why is there the big size fonts in this forum then? And wich value will have a forum if you can't express using their tools?

So don't ask sorry for me please. I did it so the Lightwave team will get attention to that itens, so it will benefit comunity.

Where is there a rule that says you can't talk about Lightwave weaks? or you can't call attention to specific itens?

If I don't think lightwave is a powerfull software I really would not use it and would not invest my time in the foruns to discuss it.


I didn't call " ARROGANT" to anyone like you said now to me.

At the end don't worry, nobody will think you're like me only 'cause you're a brazilian. For me, you're just a shame guy ( as you said by yourself ).

lardbros
03-04-2008, 02:14 PM
Get rid of Explorer 7 and get Opera or one of the other better browsers.

Ron


Remember a week or so ago i was moaning that all the images in the forum were crappy and had colour banding etc, well i found it was IE7, but was wondering if anyone has any way of solving this?

Here is a screenshot of what i see sometimes. It does work ok occasionally, just after my PC goes to screensaver it messes it up i think!

Seems to me as if something is causing my display to go to 16bit colours instead of 32, yet only in IE7! How odd!

Philbert
03-04-2008, 02:36 PM
Remember a week or so ago i was moaning that all the images in the forum were crappy and had colour banding etc, well i found it was IE7, but was wondering if anyone has any way of solving this?

Uh... Use Firefox? Otherwise try updating your graphics drivers.

silviotoledo: There's nothing wrong with pointing out flaws in LW. As for the giant red text, You could have just made a big headline or something. The rest of us have to look at the forum too, not just NewTek, and it's very unpleasant to look at. It feels like visual shouting.

Dodgy
03-04-2008, 02:46 PM
Does FFx still work with viper? Jon had Fibre factory working on viper on one point, so I assume it's still the case, which would be quite useful...

Ztreem
03-04-2008, 03:20 PM
Remember a week or so ago i was moaning that all the images in the forum were crappy and had colour banding etc, well i found it was IE7, but was wondering if anyone has any way of solving this?

Here is a screenshot of what i see sometimes. It does work ok occasionally, just after my PC goes to screensaver it messes it up i think!

Seems to me as if something is causing my display to go to 16bit colours instead of 32, yet only in IE7! How odd!

That's ugly! I only use IE and done so for many years, I've never seen anything like this.

RedBull
03-04-2008, 03:35 PM
Does FFx still work with viper? Jon had Fibre factory working on viper on one point, so I assume it's still the case, which would be quite useful...

Without FPrime/3rd party support, or a Multithreaded Viper it will be painful.... With a lot of hair, the Viper preview of FF4 took WAY too long for myself, it was/is my biggest gripe with FF4. I think Viper needs to calculate a lot of hair guides or something, because a full render can often be faster than a Viper FF4 preview. :(

Viper hasn't been useful in a long time, it would be nice if it was, as this is the kind of thing that requires a good previewer, to speed up tweaking.

Andyjaggy
03-04-2008, 03:39 PM
With the current crop of quad and octo computers Viper is now slower then a quick F9. It's a shame they don't make that succor multithreaded.

RedBull
03-04-2008, 03:48 PM
With the current crop of quad and octo computers Viper is now slower then a quick F9. It's a shame they don't make that succor multithreaded.

Indeed it would be nice, not even sure it's the real problem for Viper and FF4 however, it just seems to need to send a lot of data back and forth...If you change a setting for the hair, FF4 would sometimes take minutes for Viper to preview the changes. Like lag only worse! Hope to see some improvements in 9.5.

SandroBenigno
03-04-2008, 05:13 PM
Hey Sandro, what a Pitty you're ashamed, I am not anyway.

They can show cute cats on the forum, why can't I write on my red font?
Hope not only you read it.

Why is there the big size fonts in this forum then? And wich value will have a forum if you can't express using their tools?

So don't ask sorry for me please. I did it so the Lightwave team will get attention to that itens, so it will benefit comunity.

Where is there a rule that says you can't talk about Lightwave weaks? or you can't call attention to specific itens?

If I don't think lightwave is a powerfull software I really would not use it and would not invest my time in the foruns to discuss it.


I didn't call " ARROGANT" to anyone like you said now to me.

At the end don't worry, nobody will think you're like me only 'cause you're a brazilian. For me, you're just a shame guy ( as you said by yourself ).

--------------

Silvio, as I said... your critics are welcome. But not in this rude form. Nobody is here for that.

If you want to learn how to use the resources of the forum with sense...
Know that the big size fonts mean to shout aggressively.

I don't have nothing more to say, if you doesn't know how to listen.

Let's go to the context of the forum. It's not worthwhile to maintain this discussion here... OK?

DeepThroat
03-04-2008, 05:51 PM
Let's talk about somehing else:

http://www.lightwiki.com/images/LW95/render_vrex_b.mov

Wade
03-04-2008, 06:02 PM
Let's talk about somehing else:

http://www.lightwiki.com/images/LW95/render_vrex_b.mov


nice-n-smooth.

Intuition
03-04-2008, 06:28 PM
Less talk... more pics. ;)

Heh, guess I shouldn't talk since I haven't posted any. :D

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-04-2008, 06:33 PM
HOLLY SH***T ! ! ! ! ! ! !
That's a very fine model you have there......

Nice and clean render, but you have an AA issue due to the HDR background and the overexposed window. You should take the comp to Fusion or something, instead of rendering it directly in LightWave, which i guess you did...

Love the model!
Cheers...

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-04-2008, 06:42 PM
Thinking out loud here, LightWave should have an AUTO exposure enveloped button/option that should automatically adjust the exposure of the camera, when dealing with HDR overexposed backgrounds or strong lights. It wouldn't cut for all situations, but for quick things like the one above, would make life easier...

Dodgy
03-04-2008, 07:11 PM
Like the 'Limit Dynamic Range' button in the Render tab of the Render Globals panel? That cleans up any HRDI AA problems I have....

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-04-2008, 07:14 PM
Of course, not..... :)

Something dynamic, like real time on rendering, depending on how much light enters the camera lens; as in real world, actually...

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-04-2008, 07:15 PM
The "Limit Dynamic Range" cleans the AA problems as you correctly say, but it also kills the high dynamic range of the rendered image, which is a "no-go" option for todays compositing standards...

Dodgy
03-04-2008, 08:28 PM
But if you're compositing in HDR, you shouldn't be using it. LW still AA's the 'dodgy' pixels, but because the AA results in pixels which are still HDR, they just display as 'dodgy'. Surely it's all about the end product. If you render without HDR limited, you can still bring the hot pixels down in a HDR package.

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-04-2008, 08:37 PM
Well, yes.....
But, i wasn't referring on how to deal with "hot-pixels" and AA. I was talking about something totally different...

About the automatic exposure of the camera against strong lighting, which is something even the cheapest camera have in real life. As i said, you may not want this to happen on all of your renders, but sometimes would be nice to have it as an option, for quick and dirty, real life results. Currently, we can do this kind of effect only in post through compositing and sometimes -depending on the animation at hand- can be tedious to setup, or even worse, manually animating channels in LightWave. Hot pixels may or may not be an issue as well, but they can easily be fixed in post, as long as you're working in 32bits per RGB channel...

Cheers,
T.Rex

geothefaust
03-04-2008, 08:39 PM
That animation is freaking amazing deepthroat. Thanks for that.

gerardstrada
03-04-2008, 08:43 PM
Thinking out loud here, LightWave should have an AUTO exposure enveloped button/option that should automatically adjust the exposure of the camera, when dealing with HDR overexposed backgrounds or strong lights. It wouldn't cut for all situations, but for quick things like the one above, would make life easier...

At least for quick things like the previous case, auto iris (Expose/HDRExposure) can do the trick. There is also some few ways to 'tonemap' within LW. Though would be great a kind of physical camera (a la vray) in LW :)



Gerardo

bwtr
03-04-2008, 09:07 PM
Back in Carrara 1.1----way back (Carrara is now 6.1) we had a plugin "Anything Grows" for about $30'

Now though, the Hair in Carrara6, IS something to be excited about!

I am surprise at the LW -----"developments"?

wacom
03-05-2008, 12:19 AM
Thinking out loud here, LightWave should have an AUTO exposure enveloped button/option that should automatically adjust the exposure of the camera, when dealing with HDR overexposed backgrounds or strong lights. It wouldn't cut for all situations, but for quick things like the one above, would make life easier...


Wouldn't you just rather have tone mapping? Maybe I'm not understanding this question/idea correctly though. That's something no camera can do...but your eye can! So everything is exposed the way you want?!?

cagey5
03-05-2008, 02:56 AM
Very nice movie DT. About a minute per frame?

Weepul
03-05-2008, 03:49 AM
Cool ... very clean. But only the camera is animated.
Now I want to see the rex moving... with non-flickering GI - :eek:
Me too. :)

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-05-2008, 03:50 AM
Though would be great a kind of physical camera (a la vray) in LW :)

Gerardo

Exactly, what i was thinking about... :)

titane357
03-05-2008, 04:30 AM
plus physical sun and sky a la Vray

DeepThroat
03-05-2008, 04:34 AM
Very nice movie DT. About a minute per frame?

25 seconds.

cagey5
03-05-2008, 05:45 AM
25 seconds.


:D Nice..

SandroBenigno
03-05-2008, 05:45 AM
Have LW9.5 some improvement on dynamics?

Only to consist ... I worked recently on a tootbrush with dynamic deformation on bristles. I tried to use cloth dynamics, didn't work correctly. In the best approach I used softbody... on animation seems to be correct, but on static image we see the problem. Was the softbody the best choice? (Hey, Proton... I think would give a good tutorial! :hey: ) The detail is attached:

titane357
03-05-2008, 06:05 AM
try morphing or bones....

Philbert
03-05-2008, 06:42 AM
That's what I was thinking, it seems like it would be a lot less work to IK some bones for something like that.

Andrewstopheles
03-05-2008, 07:00 AM
I wonder if 9.5's new hair/fur capabilities are dynamics aware? Maybe the bristles could be "hair" with dynamics? Of course, you'd have to wait for the release...

Note: Before I get any angry responses, I already know that I don't know what I am talking about.

Gregg "T.Rex"
03-05-2008, 07:13 AM
Note: Before I get any angry responses, I already know that I don't know what I am talking about.

:lol: :ohmy:

Philbert
03-05-2008, 07:23 AM
I wonder if 9.5's new hair/fur capabilities are dynamics aware? Maybe the bristles could be "hair" with dynamics? Of course, you'd have to wait for the release...

Note: Before I get any angry responses, I already know that I don't know what I am talking about.

Watch some of the videos that have been posted earlier in this thread.

Nicolas Jordan
03-05-2008, 07:33 AM
I was offered a bunch of free seats of Maya for our studio, but turned them down and forked out a substantial amount for seats of XSI instead because of its ease of use.
But then Maya has a lot more users so you do what you see fit.

I think you made the right choice Pooby. XSI is built on a more modern architecture compared to Maya and now that it has matured it is gaining ground fast. I have a friend who works at a well known game studio and who is also a lead artist tell me "XSI is where it's at". This friend of mine has been a long time Maya enthusiast ever since I have known him and knows Maya inside and out but has recently been converted over to the XSI camp and was one of the many guest speakers for Softimage at GDC. Sounds like he still uses Maya at work when required but really prefers XSI over it because he said "it just makes life easier". From what I have seen Maya is now playing catch up with XSI on the technology front. I have a feeling Maya is slowly going the way of the buffalo.

SandroBenigno
03-05-2008, 07:44 AM
try morphing or bones....


That's what I was thinking, it seems like it would be a lot less work to IK some bones for something like that.

Maybe... But how to conform bones rotation or morphs to mesh's depressions? :stumped:


I wonder if 9.5's new hair/fur capabilities are dynamics aware? Maybe the bristles could be "hair" with dynamics? Of course, you'd have to wait for the release...

Note: Before I get any angry responses, I already know that I don't know what I am talking about.

I has used two-poly chain and a low-poly collision object for this, with FX-metalink on the high-poly bristles. If the new fur and hair system have dynamics on the hair... would substitute the two-poly chain... maybe to...

Someone verified something like that on LW95?

zogthedoomed
05-09-2008, 06:36 AM
Does anyone know if they've fixed all the Uv issues? Do simple tools still screwup UV's? Do non-contiguous UV's completely freak out when you merge point? Etc. Etc.
Fixed tools that properly handled Uv's would be worth the price of an upgrade in my book.

jasonwestmas
05-09-2008, 07:42 AM
Does anyone know if they've fixed all the Uv issues? Do simple tools still screwup UV's? Do non-contiguous UV's completely freak out when you merge point? Etc. Etc.
Fixed tools that properly handled Uv's would be worth the price of an upgrade in my book.

Well in LW8 the UVs recieved a significant improvement as far as editing them in the viewport,e.g. you no longer have to unweld all the verts to move the UV's around. I noticed they tend not to screw up as much either. Moving geometry verts and faces does nothing to the Uv's integrity.

jasonwestmas
05-09-2008, 07:51 AM
Maybe... But how to conform bones rotation or morphs to mesh's depressions? :stumped:



To get a physically accurate morph you would have to go into modeler with the bristles in one layer and scale and push them in the correct direction for them to fit around the tooth mesh in another layer. create these morphs for every spot that the bristles will make contact with the teeth all within the modeler layers. It would kind of be like key framing within modeler, lol! It would take 6 or 7 morphs (I'm guessing) to mix together and get what you are after. As far as it being easier than using a simulated calculation, I'm not sure.

Philbert
05-09-2008, 08:10 AM
Well in LW8 the UVs recieved a significant improvement as far as editing them in the viewport,e.g. you no longer have to unweld all the verts to move the UV's around. I noticed they tend not to screw up as much either. Moving geometry verts and faces does nothing to the Uv's integrity.

I still don't get that thing about not unwelding, I still have to unwelld all the time, regardless of Free Move being on or not.

geothefaust
05-09-2008, 08:17 AM
For me, I must do both, though... I generally don't really have to unweld all points. I can do most everything without the need of doing so. Sometimes modeler will be finicky and then it's time to unweld. Wish there was a fix for this coming though, as well. Consistency = Good. :)

Thought just occurred to me. Has anyone sent this in as a feature request lately?

jasonwestmas
05-09-2008, 11:12 AM
I still don't get that thing about not unwelding, I still have to unwelld all the time, regardless of Free Move being on or not.

Did you try selecting and moving the "points" in the UV editor instead of selecting and moving "faces"? That always works on my end.

Gregg "T.Rex"
05-09-2008, 11:21 AM
Yeah, unwelding is always the safest root...